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This thread again? Learn to search before posting.

Why would you climb a mountain without safety gear? If you don't think its possible to do it safetly, why climb the mountain ?

Let me rephrase that question....

Why do you think you can take on a carrier and 2 minutes isn't enough to destroy it? But you can gank a hulk in under 15 seconds no problem.

Let me rephrase that again...

Why the hell do you belive you would win, when obviously the second you ******* undock that any fight would last less then 2 minutes, but fail to have a proper counter: WAY HIGH NUMBERS OF DAMAGE FROM LARGE NUMBERS OF PLAYERS OR A CAPSHIP CAPABLE OF HIGH NUMBERS IN SHORT AMOUNTS OF TIME.

tl;dr - The Little Engine That Could, ****** Up and Got Butthurt when someone chumped him.

You ****** up, cause if I were to do something in game or in real life (like the first question) I would make damn sure I was able to accomplish the task. I would **** over that guy who tried to self destruct....I would deny him the right to self destruct just as much as he tried to deny me a killmail. If I didn't think it was possible, I would either A) Not engage someone I don't think was possible of taking down B) Made damn sure if it was going to burn, then it will burn and make the other guy deal with replacing it. KM's are just fluffing and mental blowjobs to make you feel better, but out of game...it don't mean a damn thing except to chumps whining how they lost a carrier in a video game (can be the guy who lost it or the OP whining how they lost it, I don't care except that someone got pissed off )

Oh look, it's the excessively angry NPC corp toon with no avatar.

Wasn't there plans to increase the timer depending on the size of the ship ages ago?

It's been suggested before and my answer is still the same: nope

yes, no killmail when selfdestruct.

Why would you climb a mountain without safety gear? If you don't think its possible to do it safetly, why climb the mountain ?

Let me rephrase that question....

Why do you think you can take on a carrier and 2 minutes isn't enough to destroy it? But you can gank a hulk in under 15 seconds no problem.

Let me rephrase that again...

Why the hell do you belive you would win, when obviously the second you ******* undock that any fight would last less then 2 minutes, but fail to have a proper counter: WAY HIGH NUMBERS OF DAMAGE FROM LARGE NUMBERS OF PLAYERS OR A CAPSHIP CAPABLE OF HIGH NUMBERS IN SHORT AMOUNTS OF TIME.

tl;dr - The Little Engine That Could, ****** Up and Got Butthurt when someone chumped him.

You ****** up, cause if I were to do something in game or in real life (like the first question) I would make damn sure I was able to accomplish the task. I would **** over that guy who tried to self destruct....I would deny him the right to self destruct just as much as he tried to deny me a killmail. If I didn't think it was possible, I would either A) Not engage someone I don't think was possible of taking down B) Made damn sure if it was going to burn, then it will burn and make the other guy deal with replacing it. KM's are just fluffing and mental blowjobs to make you feel better, but out of game...it don't mean a damn thing except to chumps whining how they lost a carrier in a video game (can be the guy who lost it or the OP whining how they lost it, I don't care except that someone got pissed off )

This thread again? Learn to search before posting.

Wasn't there plans to increase the timer depending on the size of the ship ages ago?

Self destructed ships are still dead. You do realise this, right?

^

Also, remove killmails instead. Problem solved. Epeen deflated. Waaa.

If you had gotten that killmail, what would you do with it?

If you had gotten that killmail, what would you do with it?

I could agree to killmails being passed out upon self-destruct, but only if they were devoid of any fitting information at all. It should only list the hull and nothing that was fitted to it.

I've heard this argument before. SD denies loot. That's all you need. The notion that you're somehow protecting fitting information by keeping it out of a killmail is just silly.

I don't suppose it's occurred to anyone that I might just want to keep it for my own records?

Again, can anybody at all tell me why you should be able to deny someone a killmail if they would have been able to successfully destroy your ship otherwise?

I was going to say something smart but then I realised that you actually don't have any idea what a killmail is and what you use it for.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Herold+Oldtimer

Personally, my stance on it is that KM denial of someone who wants a KM badly is about screwing the aggressor over as much as you can. And screwing the other guy over however you can is one of Eve's central premises.

My personal opinion on what the best solution would be for KM denial (if, indeed, it is determined to be a problem by CCP) would be to cause SDing to deal damage to your ship equal to the remaining HP at the time that SD completes. So that the person who SDed would be on the KM too because they did damage to their ship. I'm still not convinced that SDing is actually a problem though.

One thing I am completely sure about, however, is that I am abso-freaking-lutely sick of all of these SD threads that keep showing up. It gets old fast when you see what is essentially the same thread popping up week after week.

So... what do you use it for?

Since so many are obsessing over it it has to have a great purpose in this game. But no-one has said why yet.

PROTIP: People use it to judge your alliance and your personal experience and skill.

Past a certain point (a few hundred billion in kills) your KB becomes somewhat pointless, unless it is closely examined, but as a super pilot applying for an alliance it's usually nice to know if they whelp super fleets very often.

It's also nice to see what they actually do on a day to day basis, for example I said above The Kadeshi managed to kill a super capital with some very clever spying. If I'd gone on the KB and seen it, I'd probably have asked about it and ended up applying to join because it looks like fun. Instead people viewing their board will just see a few losses to a super cap, and assume they got hot dropped.

To be honest it isn't an issue for a lot of players who don't engage in large fleet combat, and they tend to be the ones who post "bring moar deeps" in these threads. Similarly the "screwing people over" argument, well, sure it is. But does that mean you should be guaranteed to be able to do it?

I think I posted once in one of these threads how many dreads it would take to kill my Wyvern in <2 minutes, if I overheat all my modules it's ~70. If I'm not getting any reps, and assuming they appear instantly and I don't SD the moment I realize they have support coming. And if I got bubbled, I would constant have the SD running even if it means cancelling it and re-initiating it if I think I can get out.

So it can be used as a way to keep track of progress. Cool, thanks.

Why not suggest however that instead of having the game generate a "kill-mail" for selfdestructing, have the insurance not be payed to the player selfdestructing. Then if someone decides to selfdestruct, not only will they lose a ship, but also the money it took to make it. Better then to be killed and get something back.

Just a thought.

Untill then I guess [print screen] can be your good friend

[quote=Scatim Helicon]Self
I've killed my fair share of carriers/dreads and one missed killmail doosent really matter to me but I think there's something missing in the game when it's so easy to avoid a killmail by self destructing. That has happened to me personally twice the last 2 weeks and I've lost count on how many that has self destructed in my face (it's way more than 15 by now). Yesterday's self destruct happened when he was at 25% structure so there's no arguing that he wouldn't had died to our small gang anyway.

Oh yes, as you seem to be active in pvp I guess we should listen you.

And this is why it is fine as right now. If you can fail 15 times, then you can fail, fail, and just keep on failing like a loser.

Seriously, if you can't figure out that you don't have enough fire power and can't think to have a cap on stand by to cyno in or fly with a few more people (seriously, 25% structure will vaporize quickly with even 2 more people), then yeah you don't deserve it. More then a dozen times, you would of thought by now that you could of found a working solution instead of "CCP, I fail badly at this game. Please make it easier to put salve on my ego." Just as bad as those idiots that kept on taking on Titan Fleets in battleships, obvious solution without CCP interfence was to bring your own damn cap ships but they didn't have any and just kept on sticking their face in the door only to get punched by a Titan repeatedly (its like, you can't learn it doesn't work so why keep on trying it ? Adapt and bring those cap ships of your own or just go home)

Next up, lets ask CCP to make Hulks immune to being ganked...if you lose 2 or 3 because you keep going AFK then well its about time CCP fix that issue cause the idiot just can't figure out how to keep it alive. (Hint: This means, the more stupid you act and whine about it, then its justifiable that CCP just needs to fix the mistakes so you don't make them anymore amirite? ).

While it's pretty obvious OP went in alliance chat to ask for support for his thread, I have to agree with the premise. Self destruct should be for denying loot drop, not for denying killmails.

So you don't care about killmails and think this would be a terrible change. Some people do care about killmails, and they are in the game, so why shouldn't they? You might as well remove killmails if I can decide to deny them to my attackers.

To the "bring moar dps" crowd, the attackers brought enough DPS to kill the ship - ergo, they deserve the killmail when the ship is destroyed.

Keep talking as if you have any alliance mates, Oh wait, we killed them, took your space, and **** all over you.

Thanks! Come again!

Since quite a while, alliances in 0.0 started selfdestructing their supers and carriers when they get tackled in a helpless situation

They even have forum orders about it and penalities for users who do not self-destruct and make big losses for the alliance.

Losses have become a big issue for alliances, since they show up on their killboards and make them look bad in public. So instead of taking the losses, people just self destruct their shiny ships.

What I am asking CCP for is, please change self destruct to generate killmails and make the self destruct the biggest damage dealer on the killmail, just like bubbles show up on killmails aswell as NPCs.

There shouldnt be no killmail losses in eve anymore, since, even when killmails are not supported by eve, killboards have become so important to the comunity.

Why?
Other than it being the status quo, has anybody given a legitimate reason why self destructs are a valid reason to deny killmails?

wow, is it so important for you people to show your e-peen to everybody else? its a GAME guys and lads

everyone who pays to much attention to KBs or judges people to be good/bad because of it deserves a kick in the balls

just because a alliance has a bad KB don't mean the people are noobs all along, also a good KB doesnt mean you are looking at a decent alliance/corp whatever

example: someone sacrifices his ECM ship to let a tackled friend with a much more expensive ship escape from the tackler while the blob is moving in, he has a loss and no kill, is he a bad player?

"hur dur hur we killed one cap more tahn you're allaince we are teh best!"

edit: if a velator shoots you for 1 damage, and you self destruct, should the velator be on the killmail? yes, but the player loosing the ship should decide wether to post the killmail or not

Because for most players/alliances (myself included) a few billion isn't that big of a deal?

Then preventing insurance payouts sounds like the prefect solution. Players want isk sinks, capitals cost a lot of isk. If they selfdestruct to save face then they have thrown that isk right out the window, or down the sink. Or they let themselves be killed and will then atleast get back the base cost of the ship in exchange for a killmail.

Then preventing insurance payouts sounds like the prefect solution. Players want isk sinks, capitals cost a lot of isk. If they selfdestruct to save face then they have thrown that isk right out the window, or down the sink. Or they let themselves be killed and will then atleast get back the base cost of the ship in exchange for a killmail.

a) It's not going to be a significant ISK sink.

getting killmail for a ship you didnt kill, is even less significant.

Hiding a loss mail, for a ship you just lost, is even less significant.

See, I can write sentences that don't make sense and have nothing to do with game mechanics too.

see, that statement makes absolutely sense, this is why the "issue" hasnt being adressed much by CCP.
Because its not significant.

I DONT KARE

We dont care about your complaint. Working as intended, bring moar deeps, bring a super.

Anyway, that's a moot point, kill mails are a part of the game whether you like it or not.

And in terms of game mechanics two minutes is not a realistic amount of time for any fleet to kill a super carrier or titan, let alone multiples of them. Period. There is literally not arguing with that.

SD without killmails are part of the game also; everything is part of the game whatever CCP decides to implement, so not a real argument for or agains something.


who said there should be a mandatory KM for everything? SD is designed to not generate one - its one of the game mechanics you are talking about.

When I said game mechanics I was talking in terms of general game mechanics, not existing ones.

The aim should always be to create a system that encourages fun game play. Being able to track your success with even a remote degree of accuracy is fun, denying a kill mail by cleverly escaping a gang, avoiding them or fighting your way free is fun.

Fail hot dropping some supers, and then avoiding a loss mail by self destructing all of them, is not fun for either side.

so you are basically talking about game mechanics desired by you.. or what? What mechanics are you referring to?


fun is always a subjective opinion and is different for everyone, so there will never be a system which is fun for everyone,
as long as loosing stuff is involved. For their part, all fun involved in loosing sh*t without slightest chance of escape is denying you the KM, which is fine for me personally. You had fun destroying ****, the victim had the fun denying you something, at least more fun than loosing everything just for your fun.


so all your fun in counterhotdropping a super ganksquad and forcing it to SD consists of killmails?

Would you go on the counterstrike forums and suggest they remove kdrs? No? So why are you so against them in pvp in eve?

I dunno what kdrs are, I do not suggest removing killmails either, I'm against introducing new ones for ships you havent killed.
There are no killmails for indirect kills, forcing someone off the cliff and getting kill record.

Actually in counter strike (and most other FPS games) if you shoot someone, and they fall off a ledge, you get a kill :)

So essentially you're ok with kill mails, but you think we should only get them in fights that last under two minutes?

many words.
I just think whoever flies those big things you cant kill in under 2 minutes, should have the right to deny you the KM if you arent able to kill them on yourself (how hard it might be). This is actually pretty simple.

Since when EVE is a FPS?

And I think it's impossible to kill a super fleet in under 2 minutes, you might think differently but you're wrong.

Why are people so obsessed with KM's anyway? I just don't get it. Whether you laid the final blow or not...that ship is no more. You win. Why do you need something to prove it?

you dont need to kill them if they SD, to begin with.
But if an entire super fleet decides to selfdestruct within 2 minutes (lol), so be it, it will be a smackfest and profit for all of us anyways even without any killmails. You even save a lot of munition to kill all of them by yourself.

Why are people so obsessed with KM's anyway? I just don't get it. Whether you laid the final blow or not...that ship is no more. You win. Why do you need something to prove it?

it is my main ffs.

I cant remember seeing any super SDing because all of them died pretty quick.
But I remember a carrier pulling that button once, its sad if one has no balls to die properly but whatever, didnt bother me much.

If you see supers SDing then its a good thing for us regardless of KM or not. I said 'lol' related to your "fleet of SDing supers", in that case the smackstorm would be worth more than a dozen of super KMs.
But yeah, as we are chatting about that, who SDed his super fleet when FAIL was around?

[And I think it's impossible to kill a super fleet in under 2 minutes, you might think differently but you're wrong.

Actually, if you see a super fleet dieing in under 3 minutes assuming a discrepancy as the order is given and everyone activates it...you were doing something right. The thing is, they know they were losing and you want those killmails...so they denied them. Its the value that you want and its a "hah, screw you guys" from them which is just as much as "hah, we win so screw you guys...F*CK! They started SD" from you (but, at lead you don't have to drag out the battle) 1 to 1, you want something they thought they were getting but you counter it...and they now know the other thing you want.

(stuff)

That doesn't even make sense.


Something about hulks? What is it with you and hulks? You know I don't kill hulks, right? I'm mostly a care bear

Something about hulks? What is it with you and hulks? You know I don't kill hulks, right? I'm mostly a care bear

Also, if you know the time limit to "Self Destruct" (you are firing with the intent to lose a ship you know will get vaporized by the backhand of God) of ganking a hulk in 15 seconds or less before CONCORD appears, that means you know how to kill it. That means, you are assuming you will win. Which why the hulk is such a particular favorite of being targeted, its zero risk and cheap kill.

(...)

Want to change SD? Change hulks so they don't die so easy as they do now and you can have an SD change, its litterly $50 USD for 3 months to train it to fly adequately only to be a paper thin target that dies in 15 seconds for the most boring profession that sucks up rocks. Want easier carrier kills then make hulks harder but not impossible to kill, fixes the risk balance on both ends.

"Wahhh we want to ruin someone's day by destroying their hard earned ISK but when they do something to ruin my day that's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair!"

Cry more, douchebags.

Looks like someone got forced to SD their capital so decided to rage necro.

"Wahhh we want to ruin someone's day by destroying their hard earned ISK but when they do something to ruin my day that's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair!"

Cry more, douchebags.

Better necromancy that "post new thread".

At least he demonstrated sufficient competence to use search, so we can enjoy vintage whine.