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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
SARGENTSCRUFY
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Posted - 2008.06.27 03:04:00 -
[1]
I've been able to find a workaround for forcing Anti Aliasing in game, however the majority of other players are oblivious to how much this small detail can improve the visual appearance of the game. Eve badly needs to incorporate an anti-aliasing function in the options screen. The only way I have found to enable Anti Aliasing on my pc is to disable HDR in the EVE options, and force 6x AA in my video card options. I cannot believe that this space based game doesn't do this, the Jaggies are incredibly bad, even
the logon screen has terrible jaggies around the planet without anti aliasing. This small visual effect increases the stunning visuals in eve twofold.
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Edgar Granger
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Posted - 2008.06.27 04:26:00 -
[2]
I agree. AA is pretty much standard these days and jagged edges really take away from the graphics quality.
Didn't know about the HDR thing, I tried forcing it myself but it wouldn't work. Gonna give it a try ;)
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CCP Lingorm
C C P
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Posted - 2008.06.27 08:58:00 -
[3]
Anti-Alias and HDR do not work well together in DirectX 9.
Because of the way DirectX chooses to render them this causes a performance hit.
CCP Lingorm
CCP Quality Assurance
QA Engineering Team Leader
 Originally by: Lord Fitz
Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
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Koyama Ise
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.27 09:48:00 -
[4]
So can I have it for DX 10 then? 
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Yes, I know I'm an alt, what are you going to do about it? |
Gwendion
Gallente
Bladed Moon
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.06.27 09:54:00 -
[5]
So why not let us choose between? :P
Id prefer the Anti-aliased instead of HDR.. its faster anyhow.
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Dmian
Gallente
Starline Engineering Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.27 09:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Anti-Alias and HDR do not work well together in DirectX 9.
Because of the way DirectX chooses to render them this causes a performance hit.
Other 3D games I've seen (like TrackMania Nations, for example) use a test app to see the possibilities of your video card and your PC and set the video options according to this. They usually run a series of 3D tests to achieve that.
While the eve client seems to do something like this (or at least it auto-sets your video preferences in some way) it does so without doing any test.
Can you explain a little how this is done?
What I mean by this is that maybe not all the cards can show AA. Maybe some of them can and some other don't. Maybe the performance penalty is too high for some machines, and bearable for others. May runnign a series of tests help determine in which cases the penalties are bearable to try to turn AA on?
I don't have that great of a machine, but I surely want to take most of its hardware.
Is there something more that you can do to get the most out of our PCs?
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Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
Thirzarr
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Posted - 2008.06.27 11:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Koyama Ise
So can I have it for DX 10 then?
Isnt DX10 nothing but DX9 with built in XP-incompatibility? xD
(works with "vista mode" in wine, tho)
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M1AU
Gallente
Rheintal Underground Rising
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Posted - 2008.06.27 14:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Koyama Ise
So can I have it for DX 10 then?
So can I have it for OpenGL then?  SCNR
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.06.27 16:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Anti-Alias and HDR do not work well together in DirectX 9.
Because of the way DirectX chooses to render them this causes a performance hit.
Is it really so bad that you're not even going to try to make it work from within the game, or is it just that only a small minority of the customer base owns graphics cards that would allow them to see the benefit? It already works quite nicely if you take the time to set it up.
Zzz research towers
Direrie
NEW: Liekuri
20:1 low-end compression |
SARGENTSCRUFY
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.06.28 02:03:00 -
[10]
It isnt a question of not being compatible with HDR, Anti-Aliasing is extremely important, moreso than HDR. Especialy in an environment like eve, The game looks absolutly terrible without it. I allways tweak all of my games to the max to get the best out of them, and while I can experiance the quality of the game, others with lesser knowlage of their video settings wonder why their friend's pc looks better than theirs. You must remember, were not all running on 6 year old dell computers with less memory than my shoe, Most of todays PC gamers have PCs that can handle higer graphics.
Intigrating Anti Aliasing is a must.
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Drona Laati
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Posted - 2008.06.28 02:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Drona Laati on 28/06/2008 02:27:33
Oddly enough, I can't stand anti-aliasing.
Blurring my images to get rid of jaggies, no thanks. I run at a high enough resolution that I don't notice jaggies.
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Herateis
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Posted - 2008.06.28 10:50:00 -
[12]
yeah, it looks like someone smeared lotion on the screen or something. total ugh.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.02 09:54:00 -
[13]
I would agree that AA is pretty much standard now for video games, whereas HDR is mostly a 'I have too much money to spend on my graphics card' club (for the time being). EVE probably needs some work to get AA to work properly though; setting it through the graphics card is not only painful, but for some results in appallingly low frame rates (this is without HDR, I should add). Comparing this with other games that have AA support built in (Halflife 2 is always a personal favourite to test) I can only conclude it's EVE's use of the graphics system that doesn't play nice with AA.
I'm thus assuming that CCP have looked at properly supporting AA and concluded it takes too much time away from non-shiny stuff like gameplay work. That said, Lingorn is perfectly correct when he says they don't play nice together. On a related note, the 7 series of Geforce cards won't even let you run them together, due to Nvidia having a hardware bug in that series.
Having done much reading on the subject, the way in which people like Valve got AA & HDR (including in DX9) to play nice together was to write all their own custom shaders that don't use the missing instructions and do lots of other subtle optimisations, and that is undoubtedly a huge load of work. Nice to have? Sure. More important than fixing the numerous issues? Probably not, and I say that as a fan of AA and someone for whom jaggies on my beautiful Amarr ships brings a metaphorical tear to the eye, along with a headache.
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My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Clansworth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 10:14:00 -
[14]
I think the worst slap in the face, is that before trinity, there WAS an antialiasing option in the game. The major graphics overhaul expansion 'removed' it.
And I do agree, that this game in particular, really does make good use of antialiasing. I have never looked at the game and though "y'know, I really need to turn on HDR to get this to lok right", but everytime I fly near a minmatar station, I get upset that it is so jaggy and flickery. It used to look so good with AA on. My graphics got downgraded in december it seems.
New Prospector Class |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.02 10:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Drona Laati
Edited by: Drona Laati on 28/06/2008 02:27:33
Oddly enough, I can't stand anti-aliasing.
Blurring my images to get rid of jaggies, no thanks. I run at a high enough resolution that I don't notice jaggies.
I don't know what resolution you run at, but even at very high resolutions my eyes can see jaggies without AA. Then again I work in graphics, so perhaps I'm attuned to it. Either way I always have it on if I can.
Technical stuff, ignore if you don't care:
AA isn't strictly blurring, and certainly should not blur the entire image. You may be thinking of filtering, which is to do with textures rather than AA per se. Done properly AA is most visible in effect at boundaries where pixels of greatly differing colour result in a merging/averaging of colours, making two lines of stark pixels appear to be a single line on a gradient.
FSAA is pretty much the only standard hardware way to do AA at the moment on normal graphics cards and involves super-sampling or a variant on the theme. The graphics card renders the scene at a multiple of the desired resolution and then samples sub-pixels to generate an averaged image. What sampling mechanism and what size of multiple is used determines how good the resulting image is. If you get a blurred image, especially with line art, then the algorithm being used isn't very good.
I am under the impression that those games companies that seek really really good AA may well do it themselves in hardware-based pixel shaders, but that's a lot of work for the result.
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My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
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Posted - 2008.07.05 08:16:00 -
[16]
So is there any chance of us at least getting our old Antialiasing back? If it meant for some reason being stuck with the old graphics, I would still prefer it to the current 'prettier jaggies'.
New Prospector Class |
DecimusBloodWalker
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Posted - 2008.07.07 03:16:00 -
[17]
I agree with the author of this post.
The Jaggies are very obvious and annoying..especially inside stations and next to stargates.
Can this option be brought back?
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.07 08:59:00 -
[18]
Currently I use the new graphics, turned HDR off and set AA on by driver override (nHancer)... I know, EVE was not build to support that, but it works good enough so that CCP could enable it by game setting.
You said it would be just a performance hit... So where's the problem? It doesn't make the game crash, so enable it! If people realize that their game is not playable at HDR on max and AA on max they will lower their options until it's playable again. We're not monkeys!
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"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
Raimo
Gallente
dearg doom
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Posted - 2008.10.01 09:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Anti-Alias and HDR do not work well together in DirectX 9.
Because of the way DirectX chooses to render them this causes a performance hit.
Runs fine for me using nHancer and both the 8800GTX and Nividia's newest cards. Performance is totally acceptable on 1600x1200. Why in the world do I need to use a third party app for this? AA+HDR is totally standard stuff these days in DX9 too and especially AA is essential to me, cannot stand jaggies in modern games... Could you please just implement it as an ingame option with a warning about the possible performance hit or something?
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CompMage
Caldari
151st Arch-Angels
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Posted - 2008.10.01 13:20:00 -
[20]
Edited by: CompMage on 01/10/2008 13:19:59
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Anti-Alias and HDR do not work well together in DirectX 9.
Because of the way DirectX chooses to render them this causes a performance hit.
Perhaps on your slow computer..... As a rule of thumb I think it would be better to offer a simple feature than to not. Allow us your end users to decide if we want to use it.
And for the record I have AA turn on in my Video drivers with HDR turned on in both drivers and game and notice next to know difference... with my almost 2 year old video card.
DX10 FTW???
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TimMc
Gallente
The Motley Crew
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Posted - 2008.10.01 14:27:00 -
[21]
Run at 1680x1050 and you'll never see jaggies.
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Katabrok First
Caldari
Star Mandate
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Posted - 2008.10.01 14:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: TimMc
Run at 1680x1050 and you'll never see jaggies.
Fly a rokh at this resolution and you will see the jaggies. Unless you're using a 7' monitor.
Kata
Uma vez flamengo, sempre flamengo. |
Raimo
Gallente
dearg doom
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Posted - 2008.10.01 14:46:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Raimo on 01/10/2008 14:47:11
Edited by: Raimo on 01/10/2008 14:46:35
Originally by: TimMc
Run at 1680x1050 and you'll never see jaggies.
Did you read my post? I run at 1600x1200 and the jaggies are very noticeable unless I use nHancer and enable AA+HDR. TBH anybody saying that running a semi-high reolution will get rid of jaggies have to consider visiting an eye specialist. At least don't drive a car before that.
Or then you're using a really crappy and small CRT monitor.
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