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FUEL! Yes, fuel for all ships!

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Rev0lta	Posted - 2008.06.27 11:29:00 - [1] Edited by: Rev0lta on 27/06/2008 11:29:58 I'm playing this game for far to long it seems as such ideas come to my head ;) But... on the other hand... Just listen: Yesterday i asked myself, why EVE ships can fly around whole galaxy without any limitations. Ship is a machine. Machine need fuel to work. Why eve ships (excluding caps) does not require fuel to be able to move/fight/jump whatever? So i got moved forward that road and here is what i have created: - Each ship should have 2 types of fuel: 1. Fuel for subwarp engines 1.1 Fuel should be race specific (matched with engine type). Fuel should be used for movement inside system. 1.2 Fuel should be stored outside cargo bay (some additional fuel bay). 1.3 Size of this fuel bay should be different for each ship group. 1.4 Fuel usage should be different for each ship group. 1.5 It should be possible to increase fuel bay size but in cost of velocity. 1.6 It should be possible to decrease fuel usage but in cost of velocity or HP. 1.7 Speed mods should have penatly on fuel usage (basically more speed = less range). 2. Fuel for jump engines. 2.1 It should be one type of fuel. Some amount of fuel would be used on every jumpgate. 2.2 Fuel should be stored outside cargo bay (some additional fuel bay). 2.3 Size of this fuel bay should be different for each ship group. 2.4 Fuel usage should be different for each ship group. 2.5 It should be possible to increase fuel bay size but in cost of velocity. 2.6 It should be possible to decrease fuel usage but in cost of velocity or HP. 2.7 Speed mods should have penatly on fuel usage (basically more speed = less range). Now, when you are setting up autopilot route, system is calculating if you have enough fuel to make such a route. What will happen if you run out of fuel? 1. For subwarp engines, speed could be limited by some amount and mods inactive. basically you need to dock to refuel. 2. For jump engines, each jump costs you some amount of ISK. Where could i buy fuel for my ship? On every npc station for relatively high price + fuel should be minable. Now you ask, why the hell standard ships should use fuel for??? Here comes few answers: 1. Limit nano gangs roaming around galaxy killing everything. You need to balance between speed and range 2. Add another logistical nightmare for every pilot. 3. Add another isk sink for every pilot 4. Open completely new market. Fuel market 5. Add another logistical layer for alliances 6. Add completely new market for all the fuel mods/rigs. 7. Make game a little bit more realistic. Thoughts?
Lothros Andastar Gallente The Beer Barons	Posted - 2008.06.27 11:44:00 - [2] no
Rev0lta	Posted - 2008.06.27 11:44:00 - [3] why?
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.06.27 11:48:00 - [4] As entertaining as it might sound to some, to add in such a tiny minutiae that would constantly have to be monitored and upkept... I think this is lame. CCP obviously wanted us to focus more on playing the game, than making sure we fill up before a long car ride. "Does anyone need to potty? We're not stopping for another 5 jumps..." The capacitor provides all the energy for Warp. And most likely powers the races various propulsion forms as well. And the capacitor is self-regenerating. If anything, fuel and such ARE being used, but it's all behind the scenes. Maybe the crew is handling that, and we just don't know it. Because we're too busy Mining, Trading, Killing, etc. If we really had to get THIS detailed in ship management, I think Hello Kitty would gain some more subscribers instead. "Calculate lightyears per gallon... or put a pink bow on a pony?" --- Don't take my rantings personally. I'm more than likely arguing the point at hand, and anyone playing "Devil's Advocate" will feel my wrath.
Sir Substance	Posted - 2008.06.27 11:54:00 - [5] i think its a ******* stupid idea. how about i just go buy every unit of fuel in the region, for the lulz? ahaha! what a jolly idea!
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.06.27 11:54:00 - [6] Originally by: Rev0lta Here comes few answers: 1. Limit nano gangs roaming around galaxy killing everything. You need to balance between speed and range Nano gangs? Fuel? Fuel for MWD would have been the proper answer maybe? Originally by: Rev0lta 2. Add another logistical nightmare for every pilot. It's a game, this is not fun, so it fails totally. Originally by: Rev0lta 3. Add another isk sink for every pilot No need for more isk sinks, there is deflation, not inflation around. Originally by: Rev0lta 4. Open completely new market. Fuel market I prefer new ships and modules for new market opportunities, but yeah, it would create its own market. Originally by: Rev0lta 5. Add another logistical layer for alliances As if they didn't have already enough? Originally by: Rev0lta 6. Add completely new market for all the fuel mods/rigs. see 4.? Originally by: Rev0lta 7. Make game a little bit more realistic. I'm using a fusion system that catches particles in space and makes power from it, I find it perfectly fine. Another way to see it is I can fill my reactor with whatever I want, I can grab garbage and it's fine. Seen back to the future? Garbage propelled time travel? This is a good way to head logistic needs, not adding more (it required plutonium at start). -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
GateOpener	Posted - 2008.06.27 11:56:00 - [7] Well i didnt had though of it as another stopper for playing. Just a limitation. Fuel bay size could be around 100 000 AU's and for example 150 jumps. Enough for one day of 'normal' activity but if you would like to make XXkm/s in your vaga, your range would drop drastically. Its all about risk vs reward, speed vs range.
Rev0lta	Posted - 2008.06.27 11:59:00 - [8] ^^ up there is my alt
Sir Substance	Posted - 2008.06.27 11:59:00 - [9] heres another doozie, i want to go recon deep into enemy territory. oh wait, thats right, i cant dock at any stations, what happens when i hit dead in the water?
GateOpener	Posted - 2008.06.27 12:04:00 - [10] Edited by: GateOpener on 27/06/2008 12:05:33 fuel bay size should be adjusted for each ship group. Additionally you can buy fuel bay size upgrades in cost of velocity. You dont need velocity in covops. additionally you should plan your recon route. This change would also cut all those afk covops pilots

Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 12:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Lothros Andastar no
Rev0lta	Posted - 2008.06.27 12:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Lothros Andastar no why?
Zirconium Blade Ass Pounding Space Monkeys	Posted - 2008.06.27 12:09:00 - [13] Yeah, I love going to the gas station to fill up my car, I sure wish I could do the same with my imaginary spaceship
Rev0lta	Posted - 2008.06.27 12:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Nano gangs? Fuel? Fuel for MWD would have been the proper answer maybe? Yes nano gangs. It would cut range of those roaming uncatchable nano gangs. Those gangs would need to plan their routes a little bit more carefully. Originally by: Eleana Tomelac It's a game, this is not fun, so it fails totally. It can be fun. In the same way we currently have fuel for caps. Originally by: Eleana Tomelac No need for more isk sinks, there is deflation, not inflation around. Yes we need more isk sinks. There is so much isk in game now, that its ridiculous. Originally by: Eleana Tomelac I prefer new ships and modules for new market opportunities, but yeah, it would create its own market. Same here, but game should develop in multiple directions, right? Originally by: Eleana Tomelac As if they didn't have already enough? Nope. Why biggest alliance can hold 4, 5 regions? Because logistically its easy. Lets make it a little bit harder :) Originally by: Eleana Tomelac see 4.? yep. Originally by: Eleana Tomelac I'm using a fusion system that catches particles in space and makes power from it, I find it perfectly fine. Another way to see it is I can fill my reactor with whatever I want, I can grab garbage and it's fine. Seen back to the future? Garbage propelled time travel? This is a good way to head logistic needs, not adding more (it required plutonium at start). Type of fuel is to be discussed. Im posting general idea here ;)
Zirconium Blade Ass Pounding Space Monkeys	Posted - 2008.06.27 12:23:00 - [15] 1. What kind of sick, twisted individual thinks that fueling Cap ships and Pos's is fun? 2. Who says there is too much Isk in game? You? 3. Alliances are made of lots of individuals working together. There is nothing that an individual can do easier than an Alliance. In closing, I do not log into Eve to fill up my spaceship gastank, do paperwork, or wash my docking bay. While you may wish you could, be my guest to write your own game.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2008.06.27 15:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac No need for more isk sinks, there is deflation, not inflation around. I disagree. Judging inflation/deflation by price development in an artifical environment is putting the cart before the horse. Prices rising/falling is a symptom, not the cause. But that's another topic. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well -Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam- ('nerf' means 'incompetence', esp. when you use it)
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:56:00 - [17] We already have some "fuel" in our ships: charges, nanite paste and exotic dancers :) No need for more POS-logistics.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:07:00 - [18] Originally by: Zirconium Blade 1. What kind of sick, twisted individual thinks that fueling Cap ships and Pos's is fun? 2. Who says there is too much Isk in game? You? 3. Alliances are made of lots of individuals working together. There is nothing that an individual can do easier than an Alliance. Posfueling already is a major timesink and annoyance. It doesn't make any sense to create more annoying timesinks for people. So, in closing: QFT
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:30:00 - [19] Using all that excess heavy water I have lying around as fuel for non-covert ops cloaks would be good. Them having to fuel that thing to keep cloaked. As for the rest, in time, as ships get more and more advanced there will be more ships with jumpdrives and they do need fuel. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Using all that excess heavy water I have lying around as fuel for non-covert ops cloaks would be good. Them having to fuel that thing to keep cloaked. As for the rest, in time, as ships get more and more advanced there will be more ships with jumpdrives and they do need fuel. Right... Cloaks don't already offline every module aboard in order to run. If someone made Cloaks require fuel or Cap to operate, I'd demand I be able to fire while cloaked in exchange. If I'm actually paying for it, instead of suffering trade-offs, you'd better bet I'm getting something in return. As for Jumps and Capitals, sure they need fuel. THAT was made to limit their function to fleet operations. If you could Jump completely at will with no regard for expendatures, people would just zip whole fleets around 0.0 space all day long. As it stands, folks complain about Black Ops not being able to insert a whole CovOps fleet with the current fuel capacity. So making anyone and everyone require fuel for random missioning... lame. --- Don't take my rantings personally. I'm more than likely arguing the point at hand, and anyone playing "Devil's Advocate" will feel my wrath.

MarleWH	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:03:00 - [21] Just buy a capital ship and you will be happy.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:20:00 - [22] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 27/06/2008 20:26:17 Originally by: Sir Substance heres another doozie, i want to go recon deep into enemy territory. oh wait, thats right, i cant dock at any stations, what happens when i hit dead in the water? You would be dead way before that because you would have finished the fuel for your cloak, obviously. Or maybe your crew would have marooned you in your pod you in a mutiny because there was a shortage of water? (like in the mutiny of the Bounty) It would be a big Caldari boost and a Gallente and Amarr nerf, Caldari crews would live with concentrated food and 2 minute showers once a week, Gallente would require gourmet food and jacuzzi, the Amarr crew would be midway but the pod pilot (as member of a decadent race) would require at least several body servant, pleasure slaves and sybaritic conditions, cutting out cargo space and increasing costs.
Gryphius The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.27 22:40:00 - [23] Let's just say all EVE ships have one of these! Problem solved. --------------------------------- From #eve-chaos [11:47am] Ulviirala: my damn balls are bigger than these veldspar roids
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.06.27 23:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Originally by: Danton Marcellus Using all that excess heavy water I have lying around as fuel for non-covert ops cloaks would be good. Them having to fuel that thing to keep cloaked. As for the rest, in time, as ships get more and more advanced there will be more ships with jumpdrives and they do need fuel. Right... Cloaks don't already offline every module aboard in order to run. If someone made Cloaks require fuel or Cap to operate, I'd demand I be able to fire while cloaked in exchange. If I'm actually paying for it, instead of suffering trade-offs, you'd better bet I'm getting something in return. As for Jumps and Capitals, sure they need fuel. THAT was made to limit their function to fleet operations. If you could Jump completely at will with no regard for expendatures, people would just zip whole fleets around 0.0 space all day long. As it stands, folks complain about Black Ops not being able to insert a whole CovOps fleet with the current fuel capacity. So making anyone and everyone require fuel for random missioning... lame. They do, is this a new development? I've never had that. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.06.27 23:31:00 - [25] They do, what? You quoted my whole post, which had several points in it. --- Don't take my rantings personally. I'm more than likely arguing the point at hand, and anyone playing "Devil's Advocate" will feel my wrath.
Acidictadpole ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.06.28 18:56:00 - [26] I think you should play the tutorial again. It mentions (at least before the Rev2 tutorial changes) how a ship is powered and how the capacitor works. If you forgot: Each ship contains a nuclear reactor which powers the ships basic systems. Any additional energy is then stored in the ships capacitor, which will be used for modules (obviously).
Wannabehero Caldari Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.06.28 19:32:00 - [27] The Capacitor is already the fuel source of ships in EVE; it is needed for warp travel, capital ship jumping, and accelerating sub-light travel. As stated before, placing an additional logistical challenge for ALL pilots would make EVE less fun. -- Don't harsh my mellow
Nikita Alterana Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.06.28 20:42:00 - [28] minmatar ships have the most primate drive system. They use fission reactors that need to be refueled every few DECADES. everyone else has MORE ADVANCED power systems. they wouldn't need to refuel.
soldieroffortune 258	Posted - 2008.06.28 22:52:00 - [29] it might be a good idea, but a few things would have to be settled, you dont have to carry the fuel in your cargo bay, ships have limited (the ships i fly, except my industrial) cargo space as it is, so it would all have to be carried in the engine of the ship, and if you chose, you could carry extra in your cargo hold, for those "recon missions", and this would add a layer of difficulty to the game, especially for those "recon missions into enemy territory" its easy right now w/ a cloaking device and MWD, why not make it a bit harder and it is true that it would add another market to the game, hell could even start a few wars over fuel, can never have enough conflicts (in game i mean) i think it would be worth a shot anyway, maybe have people try it on the test server first, like i said, might be a good idea as long as they didnt over-do it, and eventually people would get used to it and it would become second nature like everything else, i mean, i remember when i first started the game that i had trouble getting to my destination system, took me 5 minutes to set a destination, now i do it 5 times a minute, lol should also open up a few more skills like Fuel Management, and Hybrid technologies or something, lol
Havok Dryke Golden Gavel Enterprises The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.06.29 00:19:00 - [30] Originally by: Nikita Alterana minmatar ships have the most primate drive system. They use fission reactors that need to be refueled every few DECADES. everyone else has MORE ADVANCED power systems. they wouldn't need to refuel. Heh. As if Minmatar ships would last for a decade without degrading They're lucky if they make it past the 20-day warranty period.



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