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Kneebone
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Posted - 2008.06.30 21:03:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Xelios Xarxes
I'm not sure why either; regardless of what anyone says you can make much more with missions/salvage than with mining. Plus mining is sooo boring.
Depends on the missions you get, there is some randomness to it. If you are talking something like Extraveganza missions, then yes you can easily earn 20Mil/Isk per hour or more depending on your combat skills, etc. A storyline mission is the same in that you can get a nice reward, like +3 or +4 implants or something, without much effort.
If I have 15 minutes to kill I can jump in my miner and make a few million. I cannot jump in my Raven and run an L4 in that same 15 minutes.
Mining/Industry/Refining helps me make my own ammo and reporocess the loot I get from missions. Having the high standing with the corps from missioning keeps my taxes/reprocessing costs to zero.
Honestly the two complement each other. It all depends on the person controlling the character. Mining got me started early when L1 and L2 missions weren't a sure thing for me. As I progressed I kept a balenced skill set and am glad I did. |
Barga Hi'che
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Posted - 2008.07.01 00:30:00 -
[32]
i run a hulk in 0.5 with 2 MLU II's on it and i have a hauling alt i have never worked it out properly but i make around 2 mill per hour and never get anything i can't handle. You are doing something fundementally wrong to be having such a hard time as you are. When i mined in a retty in 0.5 my Drones never took longer than a minute to kill any spawn. |
Pesky LaRue
Minmatar
L.O.S.T. Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.01 00:54:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kneebone
If I have 15 minutes to kill I can jump in my miner and make a few million. I cannot jump in my Raven and run an L4 in that same 15 minutes.
Mining/Industry/Refining helps me make my own ammo and reporocess the loot I get from missions. Having the high standing with the corps from missioning keeps my taxes/reprocessing costs to zero.
[/quote
that's a good enough reason, right there - i have a miner/industrial alt who also has great combat/support skills so when i have limited time it's often nice to get out into a belt for 15-30 minutes and make some cash while i do other, administrative tasks (corp administration, checking buy/sell orders, etc, etc), and when I have enough time/inclination to run L4's then i move him from an exhumer to a Domi and have him provide backup to my main.
i can't imagine ONLY being a miner (i'd die of boredom) but i have to say, i'm very glad that i have a second account for when i want some ingame down-time. Sure, i COULD do all this stuff on my main, but it's nice to have a pure pvp/combat char, as well as a miner/industrial/combat char. |
Kneebone
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Posted - 2008.07.01 00:59:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Kneebone on 01/07/2008 01:09:45
Edited by: Kneebone on 01/07/2008 01:07:51
Originally by: Barga Hi'che
i run a hulk in 0.5 with 2 MLU II's on it and i have a hauling alt i have never worked it out properly but i make around 2 mill per hour and never get anything i can't handle. You are doing something fundementally wrong to be having such a hard time as you are. When i mined in a retty in 0.5 my Drones never took longer than a minute to kill any spawn.
2Mil an hour? Geezus...
Lets say it takes you 30 minutes to mine 25,000m3 of ore... 50k an hour. Easily doable in a Hulk with minimum skills. Thats 833m3/min (Honestly a Retriver can do that, a hulk is somewhere around 1200 with base skills).
Veldspar is 0.1 so that is 500,000 Veldspar.
Veldspar is 1000Trit per 333/Veld so you get 1501 refines or 1.5Mil Trit. 3isk/trit is reasonable these days so thats 4.5Mil right there. If you are in the 2Mil range you are doing something wrong.
When I Mine/Haul I park my Itty 5 within 700m of my Hulk, well in range of a jetcan.
My Hulk is fitted with 3 Mod. Strip II's with crystals for whatever I mine. Mids is some basic tank mods and a scanner. Lows are 2 MLU II's. I have dual Cargo rigs for a Hulk with 10.5kish cargo. Fleeted I get an 8% bonus from my Foremen talent. 4.7km3 Ore/Cycle so I run 2 cycles, jet, pick up on Itty 5, repeat. Factor in roid pops and you can easily do 75k of ore in an hour this way since you are on station in the belt while your hauler hauls. Consider doing ores like Plag, Omber, or Kernite since they are denser ores and take a few cycles to mine out. |
Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2008.07.01 01:15:00 -
[35]
Ignorance is bliss?
First off mining is easy, but it takes an investment of time like all things. A Retriver is simple enough to get into and can easily earn a few million an hour. Once you get up to the Exhumer levels, IE a Hulk, then your talking several million an hour.
Personally I use a Max Cargo Hulk to Ice Mine while I am at work. I go to the field, target a block, and check it in 30 minutes or so and I have 17 slabs of ice. Currently that sells for about 1.2Mil ISK. Figure I get about 6-8 runs in and Im looking at 7-10Mil ISK for minimal time.
If I'm doing other work and semi-afk mine in a roid belt its even better, just have to check it more often.
When I am actively mining I am fleeted with my hauler alt, fitting two MLU2's using Modulted Strip II's can pull in around 5,000m3 of ore every 3 minutes. Fill an Iteron 5 every 15 minutes or so translated into 8Mil/Hour ISK.
Works for me!
How is that ignorance? You've just been ignorant and assumed I haven't mined...I have a mining alt and it is simply miles away for the isk earning power of missions. Saying that, I can understand why people would do it at work.
A few million an hour you say? Well a hulk takes atleast 2 months of training to get into and to properly fit isn't something most newbies can afford. It's better to do level 3s .
Also, tonight in one mission I made 9m in bounties in 35 minutes. Then a further 21M in salvage which probably took 15 mins. I then got 3.8M in agent reward. 50 minutes, 33.8M. What would you earn in a hulk in low sector in 50 minutes? I'll tell you...nothing close to what I just earned and I didn't have to stare at a roid.
Bonus: I even got 4k loyalty points which go towards buying me stuff cheap which I can produce a healthy profit in on the market. Mining just doesn't compete with mission running. |
Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2008.07.01 01:20:00 -
[36]
Oh and granted if you have 15 minutes to waste it's a good way of making quick money. However I can just run a level 4, kill 4 750k BSs (totalling 3M) in under than time, dock up and finish the mission later. The BSs will have respawned when I come back and I can make another few million of them once again. Bonus wil be lost if I'm not back soon enough but that's usually about 2 million anyway. |
Slaver Hatastus
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Posted - 2008.07.01 01:23:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kneebone
Edited by: Kneebone on 01/07/2008 01:09:45
Edited by: Kneebone on 01/07/2008 01:07:51
Originally by: Barga Hi'che
i have never worked it out properly but i make around 2 mill per hour and
2Mil an hour? Geezus...
just hightlighted the bit of his post that you didn't seem to see :P |
Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.07.01 01:51:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 01/07/2008 01:51:39
The Bottomline:
Once you give EVE PvP a fair chance you'll likely never go back to either of these two mindnumbing grindfests except for isk. And if you are good enough at PvP or even trade you never have to dread doing these two things ever again...
... unless you are one of those folks that plays only to see a relatively pointless number in a videogame get larger so you can buy "named" or "faction" pixels. 
Disclaimer: Some do indeed love the mindnumbing, semi-afk nature of the two dull activities mentioned, and if you are one of these kind of folks, more power to you and no offense meant. Just don't be offended if some of us can't stomach the idea of a "choice" between missioning or mining. I'd rather just go to my job and make RL dollars for my time. |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.07.01 04:08:00 -
[39]
1) Mission running can be just as boring as mining. Doing the same mission for the umpteenth time is easily as boring as mining. It's just a different kind of boredom.
2) EVE lets you run multiple accounts. If you have several accounts it's not that easy to use them all at the same time running missions. Two accounts on different computers works fairly well but beyond that you start having trouble. If you are mining, you can manage quite a few accounts - and - doing so well keep you very busy. Add to that the odd visit from the belt rats PLUS the occasional human player coming along to see what he can get off of you and mining can become very interesting very fast. By themselves, none of these things is a big deal but all together they are a challenge to keep up with.
3) Yes. Both of these activities can be boring as hell and having a person doing one dis the other is absurd.
4) You can mitigate this by doing both at the same time if you have multiple accounts. Have some of your guys mining, possibly semi-afk in an industrial while others run missions.
5) And yes, PVP is where the real excitement is. Compared to that there is little to distinguish between the boredom of mining and the grind of mission running.
I mine and I run missions to make money. I do one for a while and then do the other. I also make stuff and sell it. Mixing things up helps keep the game interesting.
But - if you don't want to mine - don't do it. No one says you have to.
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
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Posted - 2008.07.01 05:17:00 -
[40]
Some people are "builders" and enjoy the industrial aspects of EVE. I think that as MMOs go, EVE has more opportunities for endgame industrial content than any other I've ever heard of. Chribba probably started mining Veldspar in a humble Reaper, so there's no reason you can't. One day you, too, may be constructing capital ships or inventing technological wonders.
However, if this doesn't appeal to you, don't mine.
...
..
. |
Aiden Bismuth
Gallente
Die Boeremag
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Posted - 2008.07.01 05:26:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
However, if this doesn't appeal to you, don't mine.
Joe put it rather succinctly here. I do the odd mission for a change of routine, but mostly I mine. I will PVP if I have to, I have a ship setup for that.
I have decided what I want to do in EVE, and setup a long-term skillplan in Evemon. If I decide to change the path, I can, that is they beauty of EVE.
Heh, if I decided to go Yarrrrr, I can even do that  .
AB
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Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.01 07:27:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 01/07/2008 01:51:39
The Bottomline:
Once you give EVE PvP a fair chance you'll likely never go back to either of these two mindnumbing grindfests except for isk. And if you are good enough at PvP or even trade you never have to dread doing these two things ever again...
... unless you are one of those folks that plays only to see a relatively pointless number in a videogame get larger so you can buy "named" or "faction" pixels.
Disclaimer: Some do indeed love the mindnumbing, semi-afk nature of the two dull activities mentioned, and if you are one of these kind of folks, more power to you and no offense meant. Just don't be offended if some of us can't stomach the idea of a "choice" between missioning or mining. I'd rather just go to my job and make RL dollars for my time.
The leopard keeping cattle from drinking at the pond from where he hunts? Interesting |
Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2008.07.01 12:15:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 01/07/2008 12:15:20
"1) Mission running can be just as boring as mining. Doing the same mission for the umpteenth time is easily as boring as mining. It's just a different kind of boredom."
No way is it just as boring, I'm sure most people mission for isk than mine. Plus, you can decline missions you don't want to do. Mining you have a choice of this roid or this roid. Then you sit still...look at it for a while and activate lasers. Exhilarating stuff.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.07.01 18:10:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Shanur
The leopard keeping cattle from drinking at the pond from where he hunts? Interesting
Must remind self: THINK before you post. 
Missioning rocks!!! Misioners are teh sexxxy!! Exotic Dancers LUV low-sec missioners!!!
That better?
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.07.02 11:09:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 01/07/2008 12:15:20
"1) Mission running can be just as boring as mining. Doing the same mission for the umpteenth time is easily as boring as mining. It's just a different kind of boredom."
No way is it just as boring, I'm sure most people mission for isk than mine. Plus, you can decline missions you don't want to do. Mining you have a choice of this roid or this roid. Then you sit still...look at it for a while and activate lasers. Exhilarating stuff.
I stand by my statement.
There are plenty of people who mine and plenty who run missions. There are also plenty of people who do both.
Of course - what really matters to me - is what *I* find boring, not what YOU find boring.
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Guillight BLue
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.02 14:03:00 -
[46]
What those PVP nubs seem to forget is that if no one mines, then no one creates stuff either.
No miners = No builders = No ships and Equipment = No PVP and PewPew
Altho it would make PVP more interesting if everyone flies around in their T1 noob ships and equipment!
I rest my case ;)
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
TRUST Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.02 14:18:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Guillight BLue
What those PVP nubs seem to forget is that if no one mines, then no one creates stuff either.
No miners = No builders = No ships and Equipment = No PVP and PewPew
Altho it would make PVP more interesting if everyone flies around in their T1 noob ships and equipment!
I rest my case ;)
Well, that's not strictly true as a lot of the loot from missions just gets melted down. Not to mention the refinables that come from Rogue Drones.
And besides, if everyone stopped mining, then mineral prices would spike (which would lead to more loot being refined, actually) and the prices of T1 (and to a lesser extent T2) goods would rise. Named modules would be completely unaffected, so we should see as many fleeting webs and rolled tungsten plates as we do now, at a similar price - or possibly more at a cheaper price, depending on whether your premise is that all the miners quit, or switched to mission running.
With the inflated mineral prices, I'd expect trit to be one of the most dramatically hit, making mining Veldspar even more ridiculously profitable. So the more miners that quit, the less minerals reach the market, the more lucrative mining becomes and the more appealing it is. Hell, I'd mine if I was making 100 million ISK per hour, for example.
So for these reasons you can't really just say "no mining = no PvP". Partly because actually the economy could survive with no mining whatsoever, and partly because it will adjust the rewards for mining to whatever level is appropriate for the EVE populations desire to do such a thing.
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Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.02 14:25:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Guillight BLue
What those PVP nubs seem to forget is that if no one mines, then no one creates stuff either.
No miners = No builders = No ships and Equipment = No PVP and PewPew
Altho it would make PVP more interesting if everyone flies around in their T1 noob ships and equipment!
I rest my case ;)
Except that just as solo PvP in combat is unfeasible for anything other than hauler and miner ganking, the manufacturing side of market PvP is pretty much impossible to compete with solo as well. That means you got a whole corp able to back up your mining operations, giving plenty of ways to protect your vulnerable miners.
But of course, one of the reasons mining is such a poor way to earn a living is because many of the markets are saturated. So having people stop manufacturing or mining and instead working on the item sink end of things should help dwindle supply, thereby making it more profitable 
Got to love real economics
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LT snoop
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Posted - 2008.07.02 16:53:00 -
[49]
i find that if you do lv missions and thats what i can only do till i train skills and get stuff for my caracal
that there are lots of ore in the missions and it the mission doesnt end for hours so = kill npcs = mine 
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The Aquilonian
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Posted - 2008.07.02 18:09:00 -
[50]
Edited by: The Aquilonian on 02/07/2008 18:10:08
Ilove mining. I have two main chars with Hulks and also big haulers. I also have a collection of destroyers and cruisers.I admit that mining sometimes gets boring. So I do ratting down to 0.4 sec and salvaging. I also make transports. I trade a little and do some manufacturing. I'm not fond of PvP and I hate missions. (Apart from transports)
They way I play EVE I have fun and make ISK.
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Balen Organa
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.02 18:49:00 -
[51]
I havent made scratch on missions. Mining and manufacturing are better.
Trading is a good way to make quick cash if you know what your doing.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.07.03 00:16:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 03/07/2008 00:17:26
Guillight BLue: "What those PVP nubs seem to forget is that if no one mines, then no one creates stuff either."
What those Miner nubs seem to forget is that if no one blows people up then no one needs to buy anything which makes mining sorta pointless.
The beauty of EVE and why it's economy works is that every profession contributes in some way to it. There are far more dedicated miners I'd bet then dedicated PvPers. Encouraging a few more miners/missioners to shuck their shackles and try PvP is hardly going to break the system. If anything it would mean less available ore meaning that prices might go up which would be good for miners.
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Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2008.07.03 01:42:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 03/07/2008 01:44:09
I stand by my statement.
There are plenty of people who mine and plenty who run missions. There are also plenty of people who do both.
Of course - what really matters to me - is what *I* find boring, not what YOU find boring.
--------------------------------------
I don't care what you enjoy only that you're wrong. It is NOT about what you enjoy it is about helping the opening poster. You'll find that there are way more mission runners than people who sit all day every day being a miner. Which gives way less financial benefit. Hardly anyone mines in high sec, because it bring in so little.
You must REALLY enjoy staring at asteroids. Yeah... 
My original comment was advice to help a new player, not to disagree with you. Santonia wanted to know which is financially better, missioning or mining. Missioning is, and you can't argue your way out of that fact.
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Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.03 07:53:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
The beauty of EVE and why it's economy works is that every profession contributes in some way to it. There are far more dedicated miners I'd bet then dedicated PvPers. Encouraging a few more miners/missioners to shuck their shackles and try PvP is hardly going to break the system. If anything it would mean less available ore meaning that prices might go up which would be good for miners.
That and CCP finally making all remaining NPC seeded modules NOT REPROCESSABLE, removing any artificial caps on mineral prices.
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Inmuxis
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Posted - 2008.07.03 09:50:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Shanur
That and CCP finally making all remaining NPC seeded modules NOT REPROCESSABLE, removing any artificial caps on mineral prices.
+1
I have a miner alter, and I got more money doing missions lvl 2 and REPROCESING that mining with a Retriever.
Saludos!!
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Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.03 11:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Inmuxis
+1
I have a miner alter, and I got more money doing missions lvl 2 and REPROCESING that mining with a Retriever.
Saludos!!
Just to make it clear, i was talking about the seeded NPC sell orders for basic modules. Modules dropping by NPC's are ok because you have to hunt for them and they are not set at a fixed price. It's the ability to buy compressed minerals for a set price that caps mineral prices. Anything else would quickly enough be corrected trough teh laws of supply and demand.
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Stela'Artois
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.03 21:42:00 -
[57]
To put it simply. Some people prefer some things over others.
Yes, mining in high sec is less profitable than level 4 missions.
I would argue that many players are like me. We mine/run missions for isk.
I do missions when I have time to devote most of my attention to Eve, and need to make a large amount quickly.
I mine when I need to be able to go afk at the drop of a hat, or when I need to be working on other things aside from EvE.
Having both options open to me is key.
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Mara Rinn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.04 01:10:00 -
[58]
Mission running is really just mining NPCs instead of rocks.
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Aiden Bismuth
Gallente
Die Boeremag
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Posted - 2008.07.04 05:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Mission running is really just mining NPCs instead of rocks.
Heh, the best answer I have seen in this thread! 
This is a player-run (mostly) universe. As such, like the real-world, you will get those that like to fight, those that like to manufacture, and those that like to mine. As I have already said, I like to mine, my char. started with skills in that direction, and I have worked on improving them.
I don't mind if someone prefers pvp/mission running, I don't, neither do I say that you are wrong for preferring that over mining, your choice, that is what EVE is all about. When my corp was wardec'd, I even train up the skills to operate a Thorax decently, then they never even bothered fighting us. But at least I can fly the ship now, even rat with it for practice, as I was not used to using warp disruptors/webifiers up till then.
Regarding profitability, if I really looked at it, I have made more money mining that mission running. Heck, mission running even cost me a frigate, all mining has cost me up to now, is drones and some repair costs. So if you really want me to work it out, I have made more ISK mining than mission running, so therefore that is what I recommend.
AB
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.07.04 14:52:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 03/07/2008 01:44:09
...
I don't care what you enjoy only that you're wrong. It is NOT about what you enjoy it is about helping the opening poster. You'll find that there are way more mission runners than people who sit all day every day being a miner. Which gives way less financial benefit. Hardly anyone mines in high sec, because it bring in so little.
You must REALLY enjoy staring at asteroids. Yeah...
My original comment was advice to help a new player, not to disagree with you. Santonia wanted to know which is financially better, missioning or mining. Missioning is, and you can't argue your way out of that fact.
Actually, it has been said by people other than me that as a "new player" you can make more money mining than you can running missions. It isn't until you get to the higher mission levels that you really start pulling it in. That and you need to get your salvaging skills up to really take advantage of it.
Of course, at 2 months with a Drake running Level 3 Missions and Mining in a Retriever the OP wasn't as "new" a player as others might be.
But, as I said, a lot depends on the individual playing the game. If you have multiple accounts (which the OP said they do) you can use all of them very effectively mining but can not use them all as effectively running missions. People running multiple characters can make a LOT more money having all those character's mine than they can only using one or two of them to run missions.
Can one person, running one character make more ISK doing Level 3 missions than they could using one charcter to mine in a retriever?
Very possibly. It's going to depend on the individual but the conventional wisdom is that they can.
But can one person running two characters, one in a mining barge and one in a hauler make more money than they could just running missions with one character? I don't know. Again it's going to depend on the individual and their skills.
The OP had two accounts - so they said.
I told them how to best use those two accounts to mine more effectively.
So - it isn't about there being a Right and a Wrong here. It all depends on the individual and what their situation is.
No one was telling them NOT to run missions but we were telling them what they were doing wrong mining.
If they were doing it right and found it boring - then telling them to just run missions might make sense.
But they weren't complaining about mining being boring. They were complaining about High Sec belt rats.
If someone is doing something the wrong way, it's a lot more help to them to tell them what they are doing wrong than it is to, in effect, say "Oh. Don't do that. It's boring and you'll make more money playing the way I play."
If the OP has one computer, two accounts and can only use one character to run missions but could use two characters to mine - if we tell them what they've been doing wrong - then, once they've corrected their mistakes - they can judge whether it is worth their while to continue mining or not.
The thing is, after that had been done - all these anti mining people started chiming in with their "mining is boring - don't bother" crap.
As I said - I find doing either one all the time boring - which is the reason I do both.
To answer your oh so clever retort - I guess you must really enjoy running the same mission over and over and over again.
In the end is IS about what we find enjoyable.
Maybe if the OP was doing it right - they'd find both enjoyable - and profitable.
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