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Santonia
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Posted - 2008.06.27 16:47:00 -
[1]
I have been playing for about 8 weeks and have 2 accounts. One, mission runner (Passive tank Drake) and the 2nd is a miner. I have read every mining guide I can find but still have some serious doubts about mining vs mission running.
On my Drake account, I make about 2 million ISK per mission running L3 with salvage and can run around 2 per hour now that I have tractor beams for the salvages.
On Mining, I make a fraction of that per hour, not even 25%. I started with a Osprey and Mining 2 lasers. I just got a Retriever but to my horror have found that it is constructed of wet tissue paper. I have 2 Hammer Head and 1 Hornet drones, but if as little as two rats are attacking, I have only seconds to warp out, not even time to save the drones else my tissue paper is dead.
I have tried making an attack ship out of the Osprey, go kill the rats, then send retriever back in, but needless to say, that is not the epitome of efficiency.
So, basic question. Mission running gives very decent ISK/Hour AND faction rep. Mining gives very little ISK/Hour and zero rep. Why would I (or anyone) want to pick mining over mission running (or even PvP). I know there is valuable ore in low sec, but if I am having a horrible time in ĉeasy spaceĈ, it gives me the willies to think what will happen if I venture my tissue paper ship into low sec.
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Kurlieu
Gallente
The Ore House
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Posted - 2008.06.27 17:02:00 -
[2]
L3 missions generally produce about the same amount of ISK per hour as my Hulk in high sec, a bit more than what you're earning. That said, I cannot produce the ships/modules/ammo in sufficient quantities just by salvaging/looting the L3 missions. I need more minerals, and buy orders just take too long to fill unless you're willing to pay exorbitant amounts for the minerals, which affect the bottom line. So I mine a bit. If you're looking for better income with relatively low risk you could look at L4s and Invention down the road. If you like excitement you could try exploration which I find rewarding, but I wouldn't want to do it 100% of the time. Better yet join a 0.0 Corp/alliance and see if it suits you.
With regards to mining barges/exhumers, none of them will last long in low sec/0.0 without someone riding shotgun. A Hulk can pretty much take care of itself in 0.4 space with regards to NPCs, but NPCs aren't the problem. A Hulk/T2 drones in high sec is as secure as any other ship.
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Arkeladin
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Posted - 2008.06.27 17:06:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Santonia
I have been playing for about 8 weeks and have 2 accounts. One, mission runner (Passive tank Drake) and the 2nd is a miner. I have read every mining guide I can find but still have some serious doubts about mining vs mission running.
On my Drake account, I make about 2 million ISK per mission running L3 with salvage and can run around 2 per hour now that I have tractor beams for the salvages.
On Mining, I make a fraction of that per hour, not even 25%. I started with a Osprey and Mining 2 lasers. I just got a Retriever but to my horror have found that it is constructed of wet tissue paper. I have 2 Hammer Head and 1 Hornet drones, but if as little as two rats are attacking, I have only seconds to warp out, not even time to save the drones else my tissue paper is dead.
I have tried making an attack ship out of the Osprey, go kill the rats, then send retriever back in, but needless to say, that is not the epitome of efficiency.
So, basic question. Mission running gives very decent ISK/Hour AND faction rep. Mining gives very little ISK/Hour and zero rep. Why would I (or anyone) want to pick mining over mission running (or even PvP). I know there is valuable ore in low sec, but if I am having a horrible time in ĉeasy spaceĈ, it gives me the willies to think what will happen if I venture my tissue paper ship into low sec.
First off, your Retreiver is not really a 0.0 ship solo. Hulks (shield tanked) or the Exhumers do better in true lowsec as solo rigs. There's a mining guide floating around that shows you exactly how to set up a Hulk for 0.0 space as a rather decent tank.
That guide's recommended setup for a Covetor/Retreiver is:
Covetor/Retriever mining setup
High- 3x T2 Strips / 2x T1 Strips
Med- 1x Survey Scanner
Low- 1x MLU 1x PDU2
Recommended that you don't go lower than .4 is a Retreiver.
Just so you know, my own mining alt made it to 1.32 rep with Gallente without running a single mission - just mining straight fromt eh newbie tutorial. So, it IS possible to get rep by simply mining/selling.
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Berand
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.27 17:29:00 -
[4]
You make better money mining a bit later on. Take a hulk out in 0.0 space and you'll do pretty good. I imagine a lot of the people who mine in high-sec are either newbies, or manufacturers who increase their margins by getting the ores themselves. And, believe it or not, some people just like mining. You'll particularly do well if you get a second account and run a hauler alt at the same time, so your hulk never has to stop.
There isn't a lot of mining in low-sec. It's too dangerous (due to player pirates, not NPCs) and the reward isn't high enough.
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Sidael
Amarr
StarFall Gamma Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.27 18:22:00 -
[5]
I enjoy both aspects of the game- I mine when I don't feel like missioning, and mission when I don't feel like sitting at an asteroid field. I've also gone and mined some of the asteroids in a mission field prior to concluding the mission. Eventually I hope to get into exploration/archaeology to add another aspect, along with slowly building my faction rep so I can have some fun in FW. Thats what I like about EVE- so many opportunities for differing play.
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.27 18:27:00 -
[6]
A couple other reasons:
- mining can be done in a quiet system, missioning typically involves mission-hubs like Motsu that are laggy
- mining provides just the cash (minerals that can be sold), missions have the side-effect that your faction standing might chance, which some people might not want
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Kraonna
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Posted - 2008.06.27 19:11:00 -
[7]
Thanks for replies, but I must not have been clear in my post.
Lets try this:
-I can not mine in Retriever in .5 and above space because the rats will blow up my ship. Retriever has zero tanking, made of paper, and the 3 Drones can not kill the NPC rats fast enough to save ship. My Osprey could mine, with one missile launcher, 2 drones, but is WAY slower then the Retriever in mining.
-My alt is making ISK very well by running missions.
So, to sum up...Why would I (or anyone) pick mining when it makes way less then missions, and, unless I am missing something...can not even be done in a Retriever unless you are with others to kill the rats (not an option for me).
To be even simpler, was thinking the Retriever would make a good SOLO mining ship in safe space a bad mistake on my part? I went by advice in the established mining guides (but they could be wrong). What ship can tank/survive rats SOLO that has a chance to make comparable ISK/Hour to mission running?
Again, thanks for the replies, sorry if I was not clear.
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Elaine Celeste
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Posted - 2008.06.27 19:27:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kraonna
Thanks for replies, but I must not have been clear in my post.
Lets try this:
-I can not mine in Retriever in .5 and above space because the rats will blow up my ship. Retriever has zero tanking, made of paper, and the 3 Drones can not kill the NPC rats fast enough to save ship. My Osprey could mine, with one missile launcher, 2 drones, but is WAY slower then the Retriever in mining.
-My alt is making ISK very well by running missions.
So, to sum up...Why would I (or anyone) pick mining when it makes way less then missions, and, unless I am missing something...can not even be done in a Retriever unless you are with others to kill the rats (not an option for me).
To be even simpler, was thinking the Retriever would make a good SOLO mining ship in safe space a bad mistake on my part? I went by advice in the established mining guides (but they could be wrong). What ship can tank/survive rats SOLO that has a chance to make comparable ISK/Hour to mission running?
Again, thanks for the replies, sorry if I was not clear.
Hardcore lvl 4 missioning will net you more money than high-sec mining, of course, but you're getting several things wrong here.
A retriever, with a small shield booster on it and/or decent drone skills can easily take out all spawns, except perhaps faction spawns, in 0.5+. You just need to get your skills up. You're comparing your miner's combat skills to your other character, which doesn't really work. That's like complaining about your mission-running character not being able to mine as well as your mining character.
The main problem is that drones are dumb, and don't always attack when you're afk, so you do kinda have to watch your ship a bit. But sooner or later you'll get your skills up to the point where even the toughest rats in 0.5 won't be a threat.
Running lvl 4 missions you can make 25-30 million an hour, but it takes some work (salvaging, etc.). A hulk can mine approximately 8-12 mill per hour in high-sec, and it takes very little work except switching asteroids after they pop.
Play the Celeste Lottery! |
Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.27 19:30:00 -
[9]
Currently Veldspar and/or Scordite are probably the best ores to mine in high sec, so why go to 0.5 when there's plenty of Veld and no rats in 0.9 or 1.0?
L3 missions are as profitable as mining in a barge, and really take about the same amount of skill training. Takes a month or so to get into a battlecruiser with good enough support skills to survive some of the nastier L3's, and it takes a month or so to train the barge skills and mining, refinery stuff, astrogeology, and some mining drone skills.
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Elaine Celeste
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Posted - 2008.06.27 19:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Letouk Mernel
Currently Veldspar and/or Scordite are probably the best ores to mine in high sec, so why go to 0.5 when there's plenty of Veld and no rats in 0.9 or 1.0?
L3 missions are as profitable as mining in a barge, and really take about the same amount of skill training. Takes a month or so to get into a battlecruiser with good enough support skills to survive some of the nastier L3's, and it takes a month or so to train the barge skills and mining, refinery stuff, astrogeology, and some mining drone skills.
There are very very good reasons to go to 0.5 instead of 1.0
The asteroids in very high-sec regions are often already mined out, and even if they are there, they tend to be tiny. This'll force you to move around your ship all the time, and considering the mining ships move at like 100-200m/s with cargo expanders, you're wasting a ton of time. And the asteroids pop so often you'll spend more time switching asteroids and moving around than mining.
I don't know the numbers, but asteroids in 0.5 easily contain at least 5 times as much ore as the ones in 1.0
Play the Celeste Lottery! |
Stefx
Gallente
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.06.28 00:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Santonia
On my Drake account, I make about 2 million ISK per mission running L3 with salvage and can run around 2 per hour now that I have tractor beams for the salvages.
I can make 3-5 mil per hour mining ice in high sec, having to come to the keyboard only once per half hour (for docking, unloading, undocking, warping to belt, and set the harvesters again). Great when you want to watch a movie... only have to pause it for 2mins every half hour.
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MOP recruiting Industrialists/miners/traders/missioners/etc |
Mara Rinn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.06.28 02:46:00 -
[12]
The main advantage of mining in a barge (not an Osprey) is that you can do other stuff too. You have 3 minutes in which to go hang out washing, vacuum, dust shelves, whatever. Ice mining is even better since the cycle time is so much longer!
Then if you upgrade to a Hulk, you can have about twice as long since you have so much more cargo capacity!
Ideally, train your mining alt to salvage too, and have it follow your combat pilot into missions with a drone boat (since you'll have drones trained up for mining too). Then train your combat pilot to fly medium-sized industrials, and have it haul for your miner while you're doing the semi-afk playstyle.
Then you can have the best of both worlds!
Mining is less income than mission-running, certainly. But mining is an income-generating activity that you can safely AFK in.
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Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.06.28 02:48:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Mankirks Wife on 28/06/2008 02:48:48
I have two accounts, I make a bit more mining than I do doing lv. 3 missions simply because I can run two MLUs and have the strips on my Hulk nonstop since I have a hauling alt.
However...
The skills I needed to get access to T2 strips allow me to perfectly refine ores as long as there's a suitable station nearby (6.67 standing and all that), and I make as much ISK buying and refining ore and hauling the resulting minerals to market as I do actually mining.
Also there's always ice mining, and while it doesn't make much ISK and has a fair risk of being suicide ganked it *can* be done almost entirely AFK, which is a big plus.
Also, you're getting chewed up by rats because your drone skills suck. Train up to T2 hobgoblins, get a few levels of Drone Interfacing, and you'll be fine. And you'll be in a good position to take a Myrm into level 3 missions - kills two birds with one stone.
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Asantte
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Posted - 2008.06.28 05:40:00 -
[14]
What I see happening with younger players is that they start mining after losing ships in missions. They do some combat missions at the very start but because their fitting and skill still sucks they get killed, perhaps several times. Some people get very upset losing stuff in virtual games. Others just don't make any money because they keep losing those ships. If you spent any time on rookie help channel you'd notice there is always someone on there complaining that level 1 missions are too hard and some external gaming websites might have comments like "EVE is too hard, as a new player I ran a mission where 4 NPS ganged up and killed me" etc.
For these players missions get automatically associated with something unpleasant, dangerous, and not profitable of course cuz you lose ships. So they start up mining in high sec. It brings in a guaranteed profit and if you keep to 0.9.-1.0 you won't ever lose your ship to NPCs.
Then there are people who think that minerals the mine themselves are somehow cheaper than what they can buy on the market. As if they could not sell their minerals for market price to start out with.
Mining is somewhat more profitable in 0.0 but it also acquires another meaning there. You get to build things for your own use as markets are often empty of the most basic equipment and ships. So rather than jump it from empire you get your hulk out and mine, for yourself or to supply your alliance.
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Mar Cerul
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Posted - 2008.06.28 13:52:00 -
[15]
I have a retriever and I mine .5 and .6 all the time. I use 3 warrior drones. I fail to see the problem. Also I make about 1.5-1.7 mil an hour just off ore/minerals, If I consider what I get manufacturing with those minerals it jumps to about 5 mil an hour. Oh also, I can watch tv, eat a snack, pay with my dog, do w.e while mining lmao.
I don't know, neither here nor there I guess.
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Stela'Artois
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.29 03:14:00 -
[16]
You will find, that in EvE the amount of effort you put into something increases the amount you get out of it...generally. Especially in the realm of Mission running and mining.
If you dedicate yourself to being an uber miner, then your Isk per hour will jump as you go from cruiser, to barge, to hulk. However, only so much effort goes into sitting at a belt in high sec sucking on roids in relative safety. (note the relative...you can be baited or suicided, but generally speaking it is much safer than being anywhere else). How rewarded should people be for running mining lasers and watching the isk roll in while they make whoopie with the wife (3 minute cycles on strip miners) or working around the house.
Now...missions are the same. Level 1-3 missions are relatively cake walks, but do get harder the further up the ranks you get. Level 4 missions generally take a lot of effort to run, loot, and salvage. Therefore, you make more...and, you are risking more. You have salvage thieves, gankers, screwing up with NPC you shot and getting too much aggro.
In short...as someone who does both Level 4 missions and mining...I am writing this message while mining...if I were in a level 4, id have to wait till I was done with a room.
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DubanFP
Caldari
Four Rings
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.06.29 05:12:00 -
[17]
To give you a different perspective on all of this. In my opinion. Why would anyone choose missions over PVP. Just something to tease your mind, and yes I do actually agree with that statement. |
Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.06.29 05:21:00 -
[18]
Quote:
How rewarded should people be for running mining lasers and watching the isk roll in while they make whoopie with the wife (3 minute cycles on strip miners)
What a disappointed wife you must have. |
Gerry TheViking
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.06.29 12:11:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Gerry TheViking on 29/06/2008 12:14:43
Originally by: Kraonna
Lets try this:
-I can not mine in Retriever in .5 and above space because the rats will blow up my ship. Retriever has zero tanking, made of paper, and the 3 Drones can not kill the NPC rats fast enough to save ship.
Then you are not skilled enough to use your drones or you are using the wrong type of drones. I have been mining for several month's in 0.7/0.6 and even in 0.5 security with a Retriever and Hobgoblin II drones. I never had any problems killing the rats. There are several skills that increase range, damage, accuracy and other qualities of your drones.
Even tech I scoutdrones should do the job. Drone interfacing for example gives you 20% increase of damage per level for your drones. (Watch the NPC damage types)
PS:It is true that I sometimes make several millions additonal money, looting and salvaging the NPC wrecks my drones create.
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Elysarian
Minmatar
dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2008.06.29 12:44:00 -
[20]
Drones on Aggressive = bad in some cases...
At least that's what I've been told - it can cause them to attack ore thieves & get you killed.
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Gerry TheViking
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.06.29 12:51:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Gerry TheViking on 29/06/2008 12:52:11
I just went into 0.6 sec with my Retriever. (Had to re-assemble it first) My 3 small scoutdrones (Hobgoblin I) finished two Sansha's Scavenger within seconds. The Retriever can load 5 small scoutdrones. With 5 Hobos II i can even mine in 0.5 sec without danger.
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Elaine Celeste
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Posted - 2008.06.29 14:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Elysarian
Drones on Aggressive = bad in some cases...
At least that's what I've been told - it can cause them to attack ore thieves & get you killed.
Some people claim that, but I've recreated the situation with 2 accounts and my drones never did that.
Thing is, there's a difference between someone being able to attack you/you being able to attack someone and actually attacking you. Notice how when you warp into a mission and release your drones immediately, they never attack unless the npcs shoot first? Same goes for ore thieves.
Play the Celeste Lottery! |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.06.29 14:53:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 29/06/2008 14:54:18
To the OP ...
Yeah. If you want the source of the problem - look in the mirror.
You are definitely doing something wrong.
High sec NPC's are not that bad.
What you want to do is go back to .9 and 1.0 space until you have Mechanic & Hull Upgrades, Shield Management and Shield Operation up to Level IV. This will give your barge about as much armor, shield and hull as you are going to get. You could also put a shield booster or expander in your mid slot if it makes you feel more comfortable and even carry an armor repairer in one of your highs if you really wanted to. Most miners don't do that but you could if you're really concerned about rats. Once you're done with reassuring yourself that your ship is no longer paper thin work on your drone skills.
Get your Drone Skills up to Level V but you don't have to wait that long before going down into .8 space. You get a drone with each level and can easily handle .8 level NPC's with one drone.
I left my freaking Tormentor siting in space mining while I answered the phone and got into a conversation with my brother. I came back to find the Tormentor (1 drone) being attacked by 3 NPC rats. His shields were gone and his armor down to 25%. That ONE drone then killed all three rats while I transferred my ore into the can and went back to mining. Once I finished off the asteroid I was on - I went back to base primarily so I could get a different ship to salvage the wrecks.
Work your way down towards .5 as you feel comfortable with your ability to handle the rats.
You really shouldn't have a problem but if you feel that you are - go back up a level - until you've got your skills buffed enough to try the next level down again.
Team Mine with your alt in a Hauler and half the time the Rats will go after him anyway. Put a tractor and salvager on his industrial and he can haul in and salvage the rats. He can also tow that jet can about with the tractor beam, just name it with the time it was created so it doesn't pop on you with some ore in it. In any case ... the jet can should be for transferring ore, not storing it. Leave a book mark in the jet can to keep it open.
Once you know what you are doing - rats - will be seen not as a threat but as an additional source of income.
The REAL reason for not going into your lower high sec areas is slow Concord response times - not NPC Rats.
Where ever you are mining - stay aligned and be ready to warp out if a large number of people come into your system all at once.
In your over view, you can set several tabs. Have one with the rocks displayed and the other without. As soon as you've assigned rocks to your lasers, switch back to the display without the rocks to better see who's come into your belt. That will let you pick up the rats faster too. If another player comes into your belt that you don't know - watch them. You are in vastly greater danger from other players than you are from rats.
You also want to have the Targeting skill trained a little bit so you can have extra rocks targeted and still be able to target rats too for your drones. If you've got extra rocks targeted you can switch your lasers to them when the rock you were on runs out before switching your view to pick another rock. If you've got unused targeting slots then you are ready to target the rats as soon as they show up. Getting all your drone skills up will let you kill them quicker and cause less damage to your drones.
Don't use mining drones until you're in a Covetor. Keep your space and bandwidth for combat drones.
There are any number of reasons people don't like to mine but High Sec Rats just aren't one of them. Get your skills straightened out and you shouldn't have a problem.
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
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Posted - 2008.06.29 19:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kraonna
Thanks for replies, but I must not have been clear in my post.
Lets try this:
-I can not mine in Retriever in .5 and above space because the rats will blow up my ship. Retriever has zero tanking, made of paper, and the 3 Drones can not kill the NPC rats fast enough to save ship.
That's absurd. A mining frigate (specifically the Tormentor) can survive long enough with a single armor rep for it's single T1 light scout drone (Hobgoblin I) to waste the NPCs in highsec. True, it means you can't fit a mining laser upgrade, and things get a bit hairy in 0.5 where the NPC rats are like tier 3 frigates instead of tier 2 ones. But it can be done.
If your Retriever can't tank highsec rats long enough for 3 drones to kill them, then (a) LOL (b) train better tanking skills and (c) go mine in ought point nine.
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Stela'Artois
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.29 20:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Boz Well
Quote:
How rewarded should people be for running mining lasers and watching the isk roll in while they make whoopie with the wife (3 minute cycles on strip miners)
What a disappointed wife you must have
Nah, she is cool...I mine ice.
Besides...you assumed I am a guy. |
NightF0x
Gallente
Chicken Coup Raiders
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Posted - 2008.06.29 23:53:00 -
[26]
I will mine sometimes during my lunch hour just to bring in a few extra bills. It's not the most exciting aspect of the game but it gets the attention of my co-workers.
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Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2008.06.30 01:22:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 30/06/2008 01:22:57
Mining is terrible, I cannot understand why anyone would sit on EVE to mine all day. I know people who mine all day EVERY DAY in moderatly good barges. That to me is hell. What do you do....stare at the roid? Joy...
Anyway, it's not profitable. You're better off (in my opinion), starting as a solider (to have good combat skills) and doing missions plus salvaging. Then train (or get an alt) with market skills. You can make tons of money buying and selling but you need lots of money to make decent money.
Whenever I have time, I do level fours and get about 20M per mission, whilst doing that some fellow EVE people are buying ships I sell and I'm making 3-4M a ship. I basically do nothing for that money, easy money if done right.
Oh and it's also worth looking at contracts, see a drake for 30M, buy it and sell it for 33M. Eventually someone will buy it. There's often some good bargains under contracts.
I would only suggest mining if you can use that Roqual capital class ship. Which you won't be able to use or afford for a long time. Though I still think you'd have to wait 3-4 hours for it to fill it's hold and it would probably take an eternity to get back the 1billion+ isk price of the ship!
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TrevHead
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.06.30 06:22:00 -
[28]
Me i like to fit a mining upgrade while mining in my retriever i also fit a civilian shield booster which is permanatly switched on. This should give u enough of a tank to mine alone in a .5 system as u should have enough time to kill the rats with ur drones before ur tank breaks. |
Mordican
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Posted - 2008.06.30 17:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 30/06/2008 01:22:57
Mining is terrible, I cannot understand why anyone would sit on EVE to mine all day. I know people who mine all day EVERY DAY in moderatly good barges. That to me is hell. What do you do....stare at the roid? Joy...
Anyway, it's not profitable. You're better off (in my opinion), starting as a solider (to have good combat skills) and doing missions plus salvaging. Then train (or get an alt) with market skills. You can make tons of money buying and selling but you need lots of money to make decent money.
Whenever I have time, I do level fours and get about 20M per mission, whilst doing that some fellow EVE people are buying ships I sell and I'm making 3-4M a ship. I basically do nothing for that money, easy money if done right.
Oh and it's also worth looking at contracts, see a drake for 30M, buy it and sell it for 33M. Eventually someone will buy it. There's often some good bargains under contracts.
I would only suggest mining if you can use that Roqual capital class ship. Which you won't be able to use or afford for a long time. Though I still think you'd have to wait 3-4 hours for it to fill it's hold and it would probably take an eternity to get back the 1billion+ isk price of the ship!
Ignorance is bliss?
First off mining is easy, but it takes an investment of time like all things. A Retriver is simple enough to get into and can easily earn a few million an hour. Once you get up to the Exhumer levels, IE a Hulk, then your talking several million an hour.
Personally I use a Max Cargo Hulk to Ice Mine while I am at work. I go to the field, target a block, and check it in 30 minutes or so and I have 17 slabs of ice. Currently that sells for about 1.2Mil ISK. Figure I get about 6-8 runs in and Im looking at 7-10Mil ISK for minimal time.
If I'm doing other work and semi-afk mine in a roid belt its even better, just have to check it more often.
When I am actively mining I am fleeted with my hauler alt, fitting two MLU2's using Modulted Strip II's can pull in around 5,000m3 of ore every 3 minutes. Fill an Iteron 5 every 15 minutes or so translated into 8Mil/Hour ISK.
Works for me!
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Xelios Xarxes
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Posted - 2008.06.30 20:07:00 -
[30]
I'm not sure why either; regardless of what anyone says you can make much more with missions/salvage than with mining. Plus mining is sooo boring. |
Kneebone
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Posted - 2008.06.30 21:03:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Xelios Xarxes
I'm not sure why either; regardless of what anyone says you can make much more with missions/salvage than with mining. Plus mining is sooo boring.
Depends on the missions you get, there is some randomness to it. If you are talking something like Extraveganza missions, then yes you can easily earn 20Mil/Isk per hour or more depending on your combat skills, etc. A storyline mission is the same in that you can get a nice reward, like +3 or +4 implants or something, without much effort.
If I have 15 minutes to kill I can jump in my miner and make a few million. I cannot jump in my Raven and run an L4 in that same 15 minutes.
Mining/Industry/Refining helps me make my own ammo and reporocess the loot I get from missions. Having the high standing with the corps from missioning keeps my taxes/reprocessing costs to zero.
Honestly the two complement each other. It all depends on the person controlling the character. Mining got me started early when L1 and L2 missions weren't a sure thing for me. As I progressed I kept a balenced skill set and am glad I did. |
Barga Hi'che
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 00:30:00 -
[32]
i run a hulk in 0.5 with 2 MLU II's on it and i have a hauling alt i have never worked it out properly but i make around 2 mill per hour and never get anything i can't handle. You are doing something fundementally wrong to be having such a hard time as you are. When i mined in a retty in 0.5 my Drones never took longer than a minute to kill any spawn. |
Pesky LaRue
Minmatar
L.O.S.T. Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 00:54:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kneebone
If I have 15 minutes to kill I can jump in my miner and make a few million. I cannot jump in my Raven and run an L4 in that same 15 minutes.
Mining/Industry/Refining helps me make my own ammo and reporocess the loot I get from missions. Having the high standing with the corps from missioning keeps my taxes/reprocessing costs to zero.
[/quote
that's a good enough reason, right there - i have a miner/industrial alt who also has great combat/support skills so when i have limited time it's often nice to get out into a belt for 15-30 minutes and make some cash while i do other, administrative tasks (corp administration, checking buy/sell orders, etc, etc), and when I have enough time/inclination to run L4's then i move him from an exhumer to a Domi and have him provide backup to my main.
i can't imagine ONLY being a miner (i'd die of boredom) but i have to say, i'm very glad that i have a second account for when i want some ingame down-time. Sure, i COULD do all this stuff on my main, but it's nice to have a pure pvp/combat char, as well as a miner/industrial/combat char. |
Kneebone
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 00:59:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Kneebone on 01/07/2008 01:09:45
Edited by: Kneebone on 01/07/2008 01:07:51
Originally by: Barga Hi'che
i run a hulk in 0.5 with 2 MLU II's on it and i have a hauling alt i have never worked it out properly but i make around 2 mill per hour and never get anything i can't handle. You are doing something fundementally wrong to be having such a hard time as you are. When i mined in a retty in 0.5 my Drones never took longer than a minute to kill any spawn.
2Mil an hour? Geezus...
Lets say it takes you 30 minutes to mine 25,000m3 of ore... 50k an hour. Easily doable in a Hulk with minimum skills. Thats 833m3/min (Honestly a Retriver can do that, a hulk is somewhere around 1200 with base skills).
Veldspar is 0.1 so that is 500,000 Veldspar.
Veldspar is 1000Trit per 333/Veld so you get 1501 refines or 1.5Mil Trit. 3isk/trit is reasonable these days so thats 4.5Mil right there. If you are in the 2Mil range you are doing something wrong.
When I Mine/Haul I park my Itty 5 within 700m of my Hulk, well in range of a jetcan.
My Hulk is fitted with 3 Mod. Strip II's with crystals for whatever I mine. Mids is some basic tank mods and a scanner. Lows are 2 MLU II's. I have dual Cargo rigs for a Hulk with 10.5kish cargo. Fleeted I get an 8% bonus from my Foremen talent. 4.7km3 Ore/Cycle so I run 2 cycles, jet, pick up on Itty 5, repeat. Factor in roid pops and you can easily do 75k of ore in an hour this way since you are on station in the belt while your hauler hauls. Consider doing ores like Plag, Omber, or Kernite since they are denser ores and take a few cycles to mine out. |
Galactic Tycoon
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 01:15:00 -
[35]
Ignorance is bliss?
First off mining is easy, but it takes an investment of time like all things. A Retriver is simple enough to get into and can easily earn a few million an hour. Once you get up to the Exhumer levels, IE a Hulk, then your talking several million an hour.
Personally I use a Max Cargo Hulk to Ice Mine while I am at work. I go to the field, target a block, and check it in 30 minutes or so and I have 17 slabs of ice. Currently that sells for about 1.2Mil ISK. Figure I get about 6-8 runs in and Im looking at 7-10Mil ISK for minimal time.
If I'm doing other work and semi-afk mine in a roid belt its even better, just have to check it more often.
When I am actively mining I am fleeted with my hauler alt, fitting two MLU2's using Modulted Strip II's can pull in around 5,000m3 of ore every 3 minutes. Fill an Iteron 5 every 15 minutes or so translated into 8Mil/Hour ISK.
Works for me!
How is that ignorance? You've just been ignorant and assumed I haven't mined...I have a mining alt and it is simply miles away for the isk earning power of missions. Saying that, I can understand why people would do it at work.
A few million an hour you say? Well a hulk takes atleast 2 months of training to get into and to properly fit isn't something most newbies can afford. It's better to do level 3s .
Also, tonight in one mission I made 9m in bounties in 35 minutes. Then a further 21M in salvage which probably took 15 mins. I then got 3.8M in agent reward. 50 minutes, 33.8M. What would you earn in a hulk in low sector in 50 minutes? I'll tell you...nothing close to what I just earned and I didn't have to stare at a roid.
Bonus: I even got 4k loyalty points which go towards buying me stuff cheap which I can produce a healthy profit in on the market. Mining just doesn't compete with mission running. |
Galactic Tycoon
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 01:20:00 -
[36]
Oh and granted if you have 15 minutes to waste it's a good way of making quick money. However I can just run a level 4, kill 4 750k BSs (totalling 3M) in under than time, dock up and finish the mission later. The BSs will have respawned when I come back and I can make another few million of them once again. Bonus wil be lost if I'm not back soon enough but that's usually about 2 million anyway. |
Slaver Hatastus
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 01:23:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kneebone
Edited by: Kneebone on 01/07/2008 01:09:45
Edited by: Kneebone on 01/07/2008 01:07:51
Originally by: Barga Hi'che
i have never worked it out properly but i make around 2 mill per hour and
2Mil an hour? Geezus...
just hightlighted the bit of his post that you didn't seem to see :P |
Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 01:51:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 01/07/2008 01:51:39
The Bottomline:
Once you give EVE PvP a fair chance you'll likely never go back to either of these two mindnumbing grindfests except for isk. And if you are good enough at PvP or even trade you never have to dread doing these two things ever again...
... unless you are one of those folks that plays only to see a relatively pointless number in a videogame get larger so you can buy "named" or "faction" pixels. 
Disclaimer: Some do indeed love the mindnumbing, semi-afk nature of the two dull activities mentioned, and if you are one of these kind of folks, more power to you and no offense meant. Just don't be offended if some of us can't stomach the idea of a "choice" between missioning or mining. I'd rather just go to my job and make RL dollars for my time. |
Toshiro GreyHawk
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 04:08:00 -
[39]
1) Mission running can be just as boring as mining. Doing the same mission for the umpteenth time is easily as boring as mining. It's just a different kind of boredom.
2) EVE lets you run multiple accounts. If you have several accounts it's not that easy to use them all at the same time running missions. Two accounts on different computers works fairly well but beyond that you start having trouble. If you are mining, you can manage quite a few accounts - and - doing so well keep you very busy. Add to that the odd visit from the belt rats PLUS the occasional human player coming along to see what he can get off of you and mining can become very interesting very fast. By themselves, none of these things is a big deal but all together they are a challenge to keep up with.
3) Yes. Both of these activities can be boring as hell and having a person doing one dis the other is absurd.
4) You can mitigate this by doing both at the same time if you have multiple accounts. Have some of your guys mining, possibly semi-afk in an industrial while others run missions.
5) And yes, PVP is where the real excitement is. Compared to that there is little to distinguish between the boredom of mining and the grind of mission running.
I mine and I run missions to make money. I do one for a while and then do the other. I also make stuff and sell it. Mixing things up helps keep the game interesting.
But - if you don't want to mine - don't do it. No one says you have to.
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 05:17:00 -
[40]
Some people are "builders" and enjoy the industrial aspects of EVE. I think that as MMOs go, EVE has more opportunities for endgame industrial content than any other I've ever heard of. Chribba probably started mining Veldspar in a humble Reaper, so there's no reason you can't. One day you, too, may be constructing capital ships or inventing technological wonders.
However, if this doesn't appeal to you, don't mine.
...
..
. |
Aiden Bismuth
Gallente
Die Boeremag
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 05:26:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
However, if this doesn't appeal to you, don't mine.
Joe put it rather succinctly here. I do the odd mission for a change of routine, but mostly I mine. I will PVP if I have to, I have a ship setup for that.
I have decided what I want to do in EVE, and setup a long-term skillplan in Evemon. If I decide to change the path, I can, that is they beauty of EVE.
Heh, if I decided to go Yarrrrr, I can even do that  .
AB
|
Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 07:27:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 01/07/2008 01:51:39
The Bottomline:
Once you give EVE PvP a fair chance you'll likely never go back to either of these two mindnumbing grindfests except for isk. And if you are good enough at PvP or even trade you never have to dread doing these two things ever again...
... unless you are one of those folks that plays only to see a relatively pointless number in a videogame get larger so you can buy "named" or "faction" pixels.
Disclaimer: Some do indeed love the mindnumbing, semi-afk nature of the two dull activities mentioned, and if you are one of these kind of folks, more power to you and no offense meant. Just don't be offended if some of us can't stomach the idea of a "choice" between missioning or mining. I'd rather just go to my job and make RL dollars for my time.
The leopard keeping cattle from drinking at the pond from where he hunts? Interesting |
Galactic Tycoon
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 12:15:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 01/07/2008 12:15:20
"1) Mission running can be just as boring as mining. Doing the same mission for the umpteenth time is easily as boring as mining. It's just a different kind of boredom."
No way is it just as boring, I'm sure most people mission for isk than mine. Plus, you can decline missions you don't want to do. Mining you have a choice of this roid or this roid. Then you sit still...look at it for a while and activate lasers. Exhilarating stuff.
|
Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 18:10:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Shanur
The leopard keeping cattle from drinking at the pond from where he hunts? Interesting
Must remind self: THINK before you post. 
Missioning rocks!!! Misioners are teh sexxxy!! Exotic Dancers LUV low-sec missioners!!!
That better?
|
Toshiro GreyHawk
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 11:09:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 01/07/2008 12:15:20
"1) Mission running can be just as boring as mining. Doing the same mission for the umpteenth time is easily as boring as mining. It's just a different kind of boredom."
No way is it just as boring, I'm sure most people mission for isk than mine. Plus, you can decline missions you don't want to do. Mining you have a choice of this roid or this roid. Then you sit still...look at it for a while and activate lasers. Exhilarating stuff.
I stand by my statement.
There are plenty of people who mine and plenty who run missions. There are also plenty of people who do both.
Of course - what really matters to me - is what *I* find boring, not what YOU find boring.
|
Guillight BLue
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 14:03:00 -
[46]
What those PVP nubs seem to forget is that if no one mines, then no one creates stuff either.
No miners = No builders = No ships and Equipment = No PVP and PewPew
Altho it would make PVP more interesting if everyone flies around in their T1 noob ships and equipment!
I rest my case ;)
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
TRUST Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 14:18:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Guillight BLue
What those PVP nubs seem to forget is that if no one mines, then no one creates stuff either.
No miners = No builders = No ships and Equipment = No PVP and PewPew
Altho it would make PVP more interesting if everyone flies around in their T1 noob ships and equipment!
I rest my case ;)
Well, that's not strictly true as a lot of the loot from missions just gets melted down. Not to mention the refinables that come from Rogue Drones.
And besides, if everyone stopped mining, then mineral prices would spike (which would lead to more loot being refined, actually) and the prices of T1 (and to a lesser extent T2) goods would rise. Named modules would be completely unaffected, so we should see as many fleeting webs and rolled tungsten plates as we do now, at a similar price - or possibly more at a cheaper price, depending on whether your premise is that all the miners quit, or switched to mission running.
With the inflated mineral prices, I'd expect trit to be one of the most dramatically hit, making mining Veldspar even more ridiculously profitable. So the more miners that quit, the less minerals reach the market, the more lucrative mining becomes and the more appealing it is. Hell, I'd mine if I was making 100 million ISK per hour, for example.
So for these reasons you can't really just say "no mining = no PvP". Partly because actually the economy could survive with no mining whatsoever, and partly because it will adjust the rewards for mining to whatever level is appropriate for the EVE populations desire to do such a thing.
|
Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 14:25:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Guillight BLue
What those PVP nubs seem to forget is that if no one mines, then no one creates stuff either.
No miners = No builders = No ships and Equipment = No PVP and PewPew
Altho it would make PVP more interesting if everyone flies around in their T1 noob ships and equipment!
I rest my case ;)
Except that just as solo PvP in combat is unfeasible for anything other than hauler and miner ganking, the manufacturing side of market PvP is pretty much impossible to compete with solo as well. That means you got a whole corp able to back up your mining operations, giving plenty of ways to protect your vulnerable miners.
But of course, one of the reasons mining is such a poor way to earn a living is because many of the markets are saturated. So having people stop manufacturing or mining and instead working on the item sink end of things should help dwindle supply, thereby making it more profitable 
Got to love real economics
|
LT snoop
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 16:53:00 -
[49]
i find that if you do lv missions and thats what i can only do till i train skills and get stuff for my caracal
that there are lots of ore in the missions and it the mission doesnt end for hours so = kill npcs = mine 
|
The Aquilonian
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 18:09:00 -
[50]
Edited by: The Aquilonian on 02/07/2008 18:10:08
Ilove mining. I have two main chars with Hulks and also big haulers. I also have a collection of destroyers and cruisers.I admit that mining sometimes gets boring. So I do ratting down to 0.4 sec and salvaging. I also make transports. I trade a little and do some manufacturing. I'm not fond of PvP and I hate missions. (Apart from transports)
They way I play EVE I have fun and make ISK.
|
Balen Organa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 18:49:00 -
[51]
I havent made scratch on missions. Mining and manufacturing are better.
Trading is a good way to make quick cash if you know what your doing.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 00:16:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 03/07/2008 00:17:26
Guillight BLue: "What those PVP nubs seem to forget is that if no one mines, then no one creates stuff either."
What those Miner nubs seem to forget is that if no one blows people up then no one needs to buy anything which makes mining sorta pointless.
The beauty of EVE and why it's economy works is that every profession contributes in some way to it. There are far more dedicated miners I'd bet then dedicated PvPers. Encouraging a few more miners/missioners to shuck their shackles and try PvP is hardly going to break the system. If anything it would mean less available ore meaning that prices might go up which would be good for miners.
|
Galactic Tycoon
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 01:42:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 03/07/2008 01:44:09
I stand by my statement.
There are plenty of people who mine and plenty who run missions. There are also plenty of people who do both.
Of course - what really matters to me - is what *I* find boring, not what YOU find boring.
--------------------------------------
I don't care what you enjoy only that you're wrong. It is NOT about what you enjoy it is about helping the opening poster. You'll find that there are way more mission runners than people who sit all day every day being a miner. Which gives way less financial benefit. Hardly anyone mines in high sec, because it bring in so little.
You must REALLY enjoy staring at asteroids. Yeah... 
My original comment was advice to help a new player, not to disagree with you. Santonia wanted to know which is financially better, missioning or mining. Missioning is, and you can't argue your way out of that fact.
|
Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 07:53:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
The beauty of EVE and why it's economy works is that every profession contributes in some way to it. There are far more dedicated miners I'd bet then dedicated PvPers. Encouraging a few more miners/missioners to shuck their shackles and try PvP is hardly going to break the system. If anything it would mean less available ore meaning that prices might go up which would be good for miners.
That and CCP finally making all remaining NPC seeded modules NOT REPROCESSABLE, removing any artificial caps on mineral prices.
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Inmuxis
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 09:50:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Shanur
That and CCP finally making all remaining NPC seeded modules NOT REPROCESSABLE, removing any artificial caps on mineral prices.
+1
I have a miner alter, and I got more money doing missions lvl 2 and REPROCESING that mining with a Retriever.
Saludos!!
|
Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 11:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Inmuxis
+1
I have a miner alter, and I got more money doing missions lvl 2 and REPROCESING that mining with a Retriever.
Saludos!!
Just to make it clear, i was talking about the seeded NPC sell orders for basic modules. Modules dropping by NPC's are ok because you have to hunt for them and they are not set at a fixed price. It's the ability to buy compressed minerals for a set price that caps mineral prices. Anything else would quickly enough be corrected trough teh laws of supply and demand.
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Stela'Artois
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 21:42:00 -
[57]
To put it simply. Some people prefer some things over others.
Yes, mining in high sec is less profitable than level 4 missions.
I would argue that many players are like me. We mine/run missions for isk.
I do missions when I have time to devote most of my attention to Eve, and need to make a large amount quickly.
I mine when I need to be able to go afk at the drop of a hat, or when I need to be working on other things aside from EvE.
Having both options open to me is key.
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Mara Rinn
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.07.04 01:10:00 -
[58]
Mission running is really just mining NPCs instead of rocks.
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Aiden Bismuth
Gallente
Die Boeremag
|
Posted - 2008.07.04 05:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Mission running is really just mining NPCs instead of rocks.
Heh, the best answer I have seen in this thread! 
This is a player-run (mostly) universe. As such, like the real-world, you will get those that like to fight, those that like to manufacture, and those that like to mine. As I have already said, I like to mine, my char. started with skills in that direction, and I have worked on improving them.
I don't mind if someone prefers pvp/mission running, I don't, neither do I say that you are wrong for preferring that over mining, your choice, that is what EVE is all about. When my corp was wardec'd, I even train up the skills to operate a Thorax decently, then they never even bothered fighting us. But at least I can fly the ship now, even rat with it for practice, as I was not used to using warp disruptors/webifiers up till then.
Regarding profitability, if I really looked at it, I have made more money mining that mission running. Heck, mission running even cost me a frigate, all mining has cost me up to now, is drones and some repair costs. So if you really want me to work it out, I have made more ISK mining than mission running, so therefore that is what I recommend.
AB
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Toshiro GreyHawk
|
Posted - 2008.07.04 14:52:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 03/07/2008 01:44:09
...
I don't care what you enjoy only that you're wrong. It is NOT about what you enjoy it is about helping the opening poster. You'll find that there are way more mission runners than people who sit all day every day being a miner. Which gives way less financial benefit. Hardly anyone mines in high sec, because it bring in so little.
You must REALLY enjoy staring at asteroids. Yeah...
My original comment was advice to help a new player, not to disagree with you. Santonia wanted to know which is financially better, missioning or mining. Missioning is, and you can't argue your way out of that fact.
Actually, it has been said by people other than me that as a "new player" you can make more money mining than you can running missions. It isn't until you get to the higher mission levels that you really start pulling it in. That and you need to get your salvaging skills up to really take advantage of it.
Of course, at 2 months with a Drake running Level 3 Missions and Mining in a Retriever the OP wasn't as "new" a player as others might be.
But, as I said, a lot depends on the individual playing the game. If you have multiple accounts (which the OP said they do) you can use all of them very effectively mining but can not use them all as effectively running missions. People running multiple characters can make a LOT more money having all those character's mine than they can only using one or two of them to run missions.
Can one person, running one character make more ISK doing Level 3 missions than they could using one charcter to mine in a retriever?
Very possibly. It's going to depend on the individual but the conventional wisdom is that they can.
But can one person running two characters, one in a mining barge and one in a hauler make more money than they could just running missions with one character? I don't know. Again it's going to depend on the individual and their skills.
The OP had two accounts - so they said.
I told them how to best use those two accounts to mine more effectively.
So - it isn't about there being a Right and a Wrong here. It all depends on the individual and what their situation is.
No one was telling them NOT to run missions but we were telling them what they were doing wrong mining.
If they were doing it right and found it boring - then telling them to just run missions might make sense.
But they weren't complaining about mining being boring. They were complaining about High Sec belt rats.
If someone is doing something the wrong way, it's a lot more help to them to tell them what they are doing wrong than it is to, in effect, say "Oh. Don't do that. It's boring and you'll make more money playing the way I play."
If the OP has one computer, two accounts and can only use one character to run missions but could use two characters to mine - if we tell them what they've been doing wrong - then, once they've corrected their mistakes - they can judge whether it is worth their while to continue mining or not.
The thing is, after that had been done - all these anti mining people started chiming in with their "mining is boring - don't bother" crap.
As I said - I find doing either one all the time boring - which is the reason I do both.
To answer your oh so clever retort - I guess you must really enjoy running the same mission over and over and over again.
In the end is IS about what we find enjoyable.
Maybe if the OP was doing it right - they'd find both enjoyable - and profitable.
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