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Serret
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.30 04:10:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Martin VanBuren hey yo bob guys could you just accept that you lost the war and move on already
Score one for revisionism!
Quote: you guys are like gore supporters in 2001, just get over it
Score two for revisionism!! |
Elkyri Mantis
Amarr The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.06.30 04:22:00 -
[212]
Yeah my sig sums up my thoughts about this thread quite well.
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Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.30 04:58:00 -
[213]
Edited by: Amastat on 30/06/2008 05:03:40 MAX was not explained in not much detail at all - but it sounds like BoB wants to control EVE through fear, influence, and embargo's sorta?
That sounds like a revolutionary approach at warfare in EVE - however It sounds like it could suck badly - for all sides. The Embargoes in example, could require BoB alliances to just bite on it for a while - in effort to starve opposition, or everyone else who may be considered "collateral damage". I just hope it doesn't seriously screw up the economy in EVE - that is if this actually is pulled off.
This is a huge undertaking and will require the cooperation of many-many-many people with a good head on their shoulders - even Molle himself cannot effectively coordinate just a fraction of this, if this happens on a Galactic scale. BoB will need a army of agents at work on this, however, they already in a way do, for the most part.
BoB Spy Rings have usually been quiet, in the shadows, and professional - but this sounds like it would be the first major activation of the BoB Spy Ring, to the point where we can see them out in the light, feel the effects, and be aware of who's causing it - unless people are incredibly stupid and blind, which never fails to amaze me...
Goonswarm has already done this, though more in a psychological way - what MAX is proposing is more political/economic it seems. It would be much like the situation with the US and North Korea standing off - the US wouldn't give them relief, and aid, unless they disarmed; sort of the same thing here, but on a much larger scale.
At one point or another I think BoB is going to have to use psychological warfare, and wide use of propaganda, like Goons did, to pull this off. Everything may crumble and shift faster then BoB can keep up with it, unless they use these tools to manipulate things in their favor.
Some may call this the crowning achievement of metagaming - which in a way, it really is - however, metagaming is just another way of accusing someone of playing strategically and smart. This is how BoB has gotten where it is today - probably we should stop *****ing about BoB metagaming, when theres nothing wrong with it, and play smart as well? Sitting on our asses whining doesn't help any hopeful opposition against BoB.
But again, back to my concern about the embargoes. Not whining about bob playing smart - but I'm concerned about the complexity of BoB's strategy, on such a large scale, and the sheer seriousness of it, would take the fun and casual play away from EVE. A lot of people like to play to win - and that's fine, however this could force casual gamers to deal with this, and maybe even stop playing casually.
I have no idea what the plans of MAX is in detail, however if they want it to work - I imagine this could possibly happen at it's peak, so I can't help but be concerned of it screwing up markets for a lot of players, even those who are not involved in the war in any way at all. If bob creates enough embargoes, it's going to eventually effect people outside BoB's targeting computers, and create collateral damage.
If that became the case, would CCP step in and intervene? If it actually happened that way, and BoB was controlling all the market flow in their favor, this change would literally change ALL of EVE. People would acknowledge the economy to be moreso a prison - and CCP would have to as well maybe, depending on what they want?
If CCP wants the alliances to run their course undisturbed, then I guess they would let it be - but if they are more concerned about the game being ruined, they would have to step in if a lot of people felt that way about it. I'm not CCP, so I'd have to hear it from them - but I imagine they would say yes to both, and would be at a cross on this issue? |
Kyrie Elaison
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.06.30 05:08:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Amastat MAX was not explained in not much detail at all - but it sounds like BoB wants to control EVE through fear, influence, and embargo's sorta?
That sounds like a revolutionary approach at warfare in EVE - however It sounds like it could suck badly - for all sides. The Embargoes in example, could require BoB alliances to just bite on it for a while - in effort to starve opposition, or everyone else who may be considered "collateral damage". I just hope it doesn't seriously screw up the economy in EVE - that is if this actually is pulled off.
This is a huge undertaking and will require the cooperation of many-many-many people with a good head on their shoulders - even Molle himself cannot effectively coordinate just a fraction of this, if this happens on a Galactic scale. BoB will need a army of agents at work on this, however, they already in a way do, for the most part.
BoB Spy Rings have usually been quiet, in the shadows, and professional - but this sounds like it would be the first major activation of the BoB Spy Ring, to the point where we can see them out in the light, feel the effects, and be aware of who's causing it - unless people are incredibly stupid and blind, which never fails to amaze me...
Goonswarm has already done this, though more in a psychological way - what MAX is proposing is more political/economic it seems. It would be much like the situation with the US and North Korea standing off - the US wouldn't give them relief, and aid, unless they disarmed; sort of the same thing here, but on a much larger scale.
At one point or another I think BoB is going to have to use psychological warfare, and wide use of propaganda, like Goons did, to pull this off. Everything may crumble and shift faster then BoB can keep up with it, unless they use these tools to manipulate things in their favor.
Some may call this the crowning achievement of metagaming - which in a way, it really is - however, metagaming is just another way of accusing someone of playing strategically and smart. This is how BoB has gotten where it is today - probably we should stop *****ing about BoB metagaming, when theres nothing wrong with it, and play smart as well? Sitting on our asses whining doesn't help any hopeful opposition against BoB.
But again, back to my concern about the embargoes. Not whining about bob playing smart - but I'm concerned about the complexity of BoB's strategy, on such a large scale, and the sheer seriousness of it, would take the fun and casual play away from EVE. A lot of people like to play to win - and that's fine, however this could force casual gamers to deal with this, and maybe even stop playing casually.
I have no idea what the plans of MAX is in detail, however if they want it to work - I imagine this could possibly happen at it's peak, so I can't help but be concerned of it screwing up markets for a lot of players, even those who are not involved in the war in any way at all. If bob creates enough embargoes, it's going to eventually effect people outside BoB's targeting computers, and create collateral damage.
This is going to be Jihadswarm in 0.0 if only because Concord will ruin bob's k/d ratios. At most, they'll conduct POS wars without dropping their own towers. The only "mystery" of their plans is how dumb pubbies can't see the obvious. Arghy is the one true God and Dungar is His prophet. |
Rechal
Active Measures
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Posted - 2008.06.30 06:00:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Astasia Orian Excelsior!
Good one, true believer. I lol'd.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.30 07:10:00 -
[216]
~420~
~~~~sHoOt PoS eVeRyDaY~~~~ |
Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.30 07:16:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Kyrie Elaison This is going to be Jihadswarm in 0.0 if only because Concord will ruin bob's k/d ratios. At most, they'll conduct POS wars without dropping their own towers. The only "mystery" of their plans is how dumb pubbies can't see the obvious.
If that is how it's going to be, though it sounds like thats just a part of what is described in MAX, it's already been done. In fact, it's done all the time - pretty much every single npc 0.0 based alliance employees this tactic - which usually is nothing more then the local pest more than anything.
I had read they were going to basically operate by controlling the other alliances (making them pets), by economic means (embargoes), or by fighting politically (propaganda, political PvP), and fighting by traditional military means (pillaging, raiding, etc).
To me, as I was reading this, it sounded like BoB is basically going to continue what they are doing, but drop the whole POS war thing and fighting over territory - but rather using embargos, propaganda, political, and Total War tactics to drive opposing alliances into submission by breaking their spirit.
The situation that many of BoB's pet alliances were in, were a perfect example of these tactics BoB has used and is saying they want to use more - they break alliances so badly, until they submit, surrender, and pay protection money and spill blood for BoB when BoB says.
I have been very neutral in the central conflict between BoB and Goon, and don't care for it - however, and I'll probably be flamed for this by forum alts, but I'd rather live nextdoor to Goon space and deal with their crap, then live next door to BoB space and have them relentlessly bully and milk me and everyone else in my alliance. Tolerating them out of fear just seems like slavery to me, IMO - or being in a prison made out of fear.
If they wanted to control the entire galaxy, this would be on a galactic scale - which is why I was concerned about all the embargoes - it would effect everyone, not just BoB's enemies.
But either way - they would be an alliance with very little space - since that wouldn't be their focus in this plan. They would instead have all of their forces spreading influence and getting more pets for them to milk resources and fleets out of.
As to wither or not they would want to keep Delve in the MAX plan - don't know, I suppose they could - however all it would take is for Delve to be sieged, and their MAX plan would come to a screeching halt. If they wanted to go with MAX, without end, they have to give up sovereignty altogether, and treat their influence as their new measurement of power - not territory.
However, yea - it is a coincidence this happens during the BBQ - it could be something as simple as a motivational stunt. Or, it could be something that was nothing more than talked about, and BoB may not even do this - and this is just the new thing everyone in COAD has to gossip about. We just have to wait and see what BoB does then - but it would take a few months probably to even notice MAX actually working (if it does), if they are indeed speaking the truth about this and will follow it.
BoB has had a history and reputation for keeping anything like this secretive - it is odd they'd even talk about it, unless they just wanted to be in a NY Times article. Maybe it's just a attempt to mislead, or they wanted to be in the NY Times, or they really mean it. |
BuIIseye
Amarr Pax Amarria Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.30 07:21:00 -
[218]
Originally by: clagnuts guys stop with the bbq,s, ffs 2 thirds of you are obease try having your next meet at slimers world
People should appreciate this post more, the Brad Pitt of internet posting has spoken! |
Xanuf
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.30 15:51:00 -
[219]
I know, let's all get really mad about interweb spaceships. |
Svetlanna
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.06.30 16:05:00 -
[220]
What we all would like to know is the following:
Did Mr Moule make a nice PowerPoint Slide show presentation? And if so, could we have a copy of it for inspiration?
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Hey You
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.30 16:20:00 -
[221]
Jesus so many whines here and all we want is jump 250 caps in someones sov 4 constellation and hump their building super caps which is a certain way to get them to actually undock and fight us and hence give us fun... |
Kyrie Elaison
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.06.30 16:45:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Amastat bunch of clueless words
This is the kind of analysis that all the passive-aggressive trolls on scrapheap always wish they'd see on COAD. It's thought out, it's not offensive, and it's long-winded. It's all stupid. I'll take catchphrases over willful ignorance all day long.
Since you're having difficulty, I'll draw the dots for you. Taking and holding territory is very much the endgame for major alliances. Bob, via this announcement, is saying that they're not interested in taking territory, they just want to ruin other people's regions. Hey, what does that sound like? It sounds like serious business jihadswarm.
I feel like I got trolled by DigitalCommunist. :( Arghy is the one true God and Dungar is His prophet. |
Kyrie Elaison
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.06.30 16:48:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Hey You Jesus so many whines here and all we want is jump 250 caps in someones sov 4 constellation and hump their building super caps which is a certain way to get them to actually undock and fight us and hence give us fun...
Shooting POS in a sov 4 system definitely sounds like an interesting plan. Arghy is the one true God and Dungar is His prophet. |
Omeega
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.30 16:58:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Hey You jump 250 caps sov 4 constellation hump their building super caps
/o\
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.06.30 17:10:00 -
[225]
i'm pretty sure the nytimes is waiting, daily i assume, for anything to report other than news that is news.
proof is here, at the top of this very thread.
You're doing it wrong. |
Ghaelsto Kakram
Mindgamers
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Posted - 2008.06.30 17:15:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Hey You Jesus so many whines here and all we want is jump 250 caps in someones sov 4 constellation and hump their building super caps which is a certain way to get them to actually undock and fight us and hence give us fun...
The fun part will be the other side knowing this 3 months in advance and preparing a welcome party.
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Cippalippus Primus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.30 17:34:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Hey You Jesus so many whines here and all we want is jump 250 caps in someones sov 4 constellation and hump their building super caps which is a certain way to get them to actually undock and fight us and hence give us fun...
We happy few... -clp
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Nick Curso
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.30 17:42:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Cippalippus Primus
Originally by: Hey You Jesus so many whines here and all we want is jump 250 caps in someones sov 4 constellation and hump their building super caps which is a certain way to get them to actually undock and fight us and hence give us fun...
We happy few...
we band of brosefs |
Kyrie Elaison
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.06.30 17:47:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Nick Curso
Originally by: Cippalippus Primus
Originally by: Hey You Jesus so many whines here and all we want is jump 250 caps in someones sov 4 constellation and hump their building super caps which is a certain way to get them to actually undock and fight us and hence give us fun...
We happy few...
we band of brosefs
for he today that shares his buttes with me |
Hey You
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.30 18:30:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Kyrie Elaison
Originally by: Nick Curso
Originally by: Cippalippus Primus
Originally by: Hey You Jesus so many whines here and all we want is jump 250 caps in someones sov 4 constellation and hump their building super caps which is a certain way to get them to actually undock and fight us and hence give us fun...
We happy few...
we band of brosefs
for he today that shares his buttes with me
FINFL is ---> way. |
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Tzujeih
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.30 18:42:00 -
[231]
Edited by: Tzujeih on 30/06/2008 18:46:02
Originally by: Serret
Originally by: Martin VanBuren hey yo bob guys could you just accept that you lost the war and move on already
Score one for revisionism!
Quote: you guys are like gore supporters in 2001, just get over it
Score two for revisionism!!
No doubt everyone's goal post has moved, BoB's especially. (we aren't dead, victory!) And you play the fact that you still retain space as if you've won the game. That is revisionism.
I prefer to look at the sov map and how many of our allies haven't been wiped off of it. Tha map don't lie *****.
awe **** i ruined the st. crispin chain |
Martin VanBuren
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.30 18:58:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Serret
Originally by: Martin VanBuren hey yo bob guys could you just accept that you lost the war and move on already
Score one for revisionism!
Quote: you guys are like gore supporters in 2001, just get over it
Score two for revisionism!!
Hey remember that time you invaded us in tandem with LV while we only owned Scalding Pass?
And now LV is dead and we nabbed half of your territory after killing Shrike?
STUNNING VICTORY
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Martin VanBuren
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.30 19:03:00 -
[233]
I mean, are your guys' e-egos (e-gos ?) so delicate you can't even accept that you lost once? Here, check this out: Goonswarm lost the fight for XZH! We were well and truly defeated! Good fights were had, but they certainly weren't had by us!
See how refreshing and liberating that was? Now you guys try!
BoB lost the war! You guys got hella tired of fighting over territory no-one cares about in the defense of awful, awful pets like Rise and Corm and just stopped showing up! BoB may not be dead but you certainly got the tar beaten out of you the RSF has replaced you as the greatest Eve superpower!
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.06.30 19:34:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Martin VanBuren I mean, are your guys' e-egos (e-gos ?) so delicate you can't even accept that you lost once? Here, check this out: Goonswarm lost the fight for XZH! We were well and truly defeated! Good fights were had, but they certainly weren't had by us!
See how refreshing and liberating that was? Now you guys try!
BoB lost the war! You guys got hella tired of fighting over territory no-one cares about in the defense of awful, awful pets like Rise and Corm and just stopped showing up! BoB may not be dead but you certainly got the tar beaten out of you the RSF has replaced you as the greatest Eve superpower!
admitting a goon is right feels like admitting to everyone at the office on monday that i saw a donkey show on the weekend. it may be technically correct, but why am i telling everyone?
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HaulandHaul
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.06.30 20:18:00 -
[235]
Edited by: HaulandHaul on 30/06/2008 20:19:13
Originally by: Martin VanBuren I mean, are your guys' e-egos (e-gos ?) so delicate you can't even accept that you lost once? Here, check this out: Goonswarm lost the fight for XZH! We were well and truly defeated! Good fights were had, but they certainly weren't had by us!
See how refreshing and liberating that was? Now you guys try!
BoB lost the war! You guys got hella tired of fighting over territory no-one cares about in the defense of awful, awful pets like Rise and Corm and just stopped showing up! BoB may not be dead but you certainly got the tar beaten out of you the RSF has replaced you as the greatest Eve superpower!
Goons did not want qy6 anyway, amiright?
Your naptrain failed, and when that happened, your assault on Delve came to a halt, your zomg hide in 319 campain failed and as of the reasons mentioned above your whole campain failed.
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.06.30 22:44:00 -
[236]
Best announcement post ever.
The rest of the thread is pretty fun too.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Overt Ops
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Posted - 2008.07.01 00:16:00 -
[237]
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Stublick Hunt
Minmatar Prince's of the Universe
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Posted - 2008.07.01 00:46:00 -
[238]
Edited by: Stublick Hunt on 01/07/2008 00:46:55 Overt ... I cannot believe you nicked my pic |
Shikome Alluin
Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.07.01 00:55:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Overt Ops Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Quoted For prosperity. |
Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2008.07.01 01:01:00 -
[240]
lets hope they dont try to gank freighters in jita
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