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Wardecs on militia corps

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nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 13:14:00 - [1] Hmm, I agree its game mechanics for war decs etc, but logically and theoretically we are saying that say one Armed Force of One country in the world declares war on one Corp within the opposing Corp 's Country the whole of that country's Armed Force won't and can't fight back........ We are avoiding the fact that the militia is made up of different groups who help within the war effort in different ways, Logistics, Mechanics, Special Forces, Intelligence, Communications, Infantry, Armored, Engineers, Medical and Industrial. Now one group of specialists will form a corporation, often with a few members who can help with different aspects of the war but these people will rely on help of other corporations within the militia. These seperate Corporations form one force - the militia. The militia fights for its land and will take out any opposing forces and any rogue groups who wish to try to stop this movement. Now going back to war declerations, if rogue forces wish to declare war on one corporation within the militia, the militia which this corporation works within should grant that corporation support from the state including other corps within the militia. Because this rogue Corp will be and is stopping the corporation from fighting within the militia and therefore hindering the war effort. This Rogue Corp should be stopped at all costs in order to reach the militias objective.
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 13:35:00 - [2] Okay, so CONCORD in theory is NATO or similar, I agree that they may want to keep wars fairly small etc but why has the militia been created?!! This again brings back the earlier post - Militia corps are in the war together yet are being what would appear to be exploited as they cannot truely fight together for the same cause..........
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 13:54:00 - [3] I don't understand why war decs have been allowed to continue, if someone want s to fight someone in the militia why not just join the opposing force..........
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:05:00 - [4] But there are other corps that are not in FW that would still be able to be wardec'd, atm the only people who are getting exploited are those in FW. The only problem I see with stopping it is that corp's who dont wish to be wardec'd join FW - but then they still cannot enter opposing FW space and can be attacked by opposing Militias - was this not the idea of the expansion......... Oh, yes and those who dont wish to participate in FW feel left out, aww bless, why not just continue to wardec those who also aren't participating in FW and play your own game.......
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:11:00 - [5] Edited by: nVChicky on 02/07/2008 14:12:27 Obviously your just part of the problem, this isn't about contesting who's bigger better and not in FW, This is about FW gameplay. Originally by: northwesten Originally by: Napro Originally by: northwesten EVE is harsh! Just deal with it or leave that simple! ya srsly nubs! Its not like the game can be changed or anything nub? and whats your great idea then? Other wise STFU and deal with it! there fine as there are just noobs and lazy F4ú like you just want things easy and a win button! like i said deal with it or just leave it's THAT SIMPLE! Soon you get that idea in your head you stop whining. complete moron at its best as I can see.
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:27:00 - [6] my list of possible solutions: 1) make the militia a formal alliance (therefore wardecs once voted would apply to all in that militia) 2) Stop Player Corps being allowed to be formed in FW and create more NPC FW Corps (Would stop the possibility of wardecs and shrink the size of NPC Corps) 3) Not allow WarDecs to Player Corporations in the FW (Would allow players to continue in FW but may create exploits) 4) have no NPC corps in FW and allow alliances (would mean Player Corps in the militia could easily choose if they wished t aid their commrades)
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:34:00 - [7] Originally by: northwesten I really really cant see the problem in this. Think about it if they cant war dec a corp in the Militia then everyone will join it to try and avoid wars. I really feel that you are happy with the system as it suits you, it does not however make good gameplay for those in FW. Yes if War Dec's were stopped for FW Corps people would join to try and avoid wars but they will have just entered into a bigger war, won't be able to enter opposing faction high sec and will have quite a few more enemies!
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:41:00 - [8] Agreed if your not in FW and you war dec a FW Corp your not with us your against us and should take a standing hit
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Jade Constantine Joining the other militia? Not an option for alliances at the moment and still has the default problem that it makes caldari space home ground advantage for this bunch of ninja scum who don't care two hoots about faction warfare but just want to hide from the consequences of their actions on the corp vs corp stage. You do need to think these things through properly. I Agree, an alliance should be able to join FW, and FW Player Corps should be able to create Alliances - I think here lies the main problem.
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:56:00 - [10] Originally by: Jade Constantine I would support a system where by the militia kept a list of all incoming active wardecs against its corps and allowed ANY milita corp to join one of these wars completely FREE just by clicking a "help militia ally" button and waiting out the 24 hour timer. (with another 24 hour timer to withdraw the help of course). This would allow players in the Militia to aid player corps against attacks from player corps and would hopefully address the issue in a way that encourages pvp and consequence in Eve online. Jade I LOVE YOU!!! Come sit in my head for a while you'll have lots of fun! Again I agree the main problem with war dec's and FW is the inability for support from other FW Corps.
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:58:00 - [11] Edited by: nVChicky on 02/07/2008 14:59:35 Originally by: Rachael Malace Wouldn't a simple solution be: Gang members share all kill rights of all members in the gang including Wardec kill rights and all gang members accept all kill rights placed on all members in the gang. So that this isn't exploited the dynamic exchange of kill rights could be managed with warnings when joining a gang or inviting someone to a gang. In this way if a mixed roaming gang (FW or not) is engaged by war-targets pertaining only to a subset of the fleet, the whole gang could engage. A more conservative solution: Aggressing to a member of a fleet (WarDec or not) makes you red to the fleet. That used to be how it worked before the patch came in..........well you were an eligble wt for those your fleet members were at war with
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:08:00 - [12] Originally by: Khyle Edited by: Khyle on 02/07/2008 15:01:42 Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Khyle ...Most importantly, do militia members get direct standings hits for shooting players of hostile militias? ... At the moment I do not believe they do. Which should instantly silence all people asking for non-militia corps fighting militia corps getting standing hits imho. Can we get a definite answer on this? nVChicky, Ulstan, ...? As far as I can tell reading from my logs you DO get a hit for fighting NPC militia when capping but you don't when when engaging players from opposing militia Corps example: Kill mail >2008.06.23 22:21:00 Victim: Kingeal Corp: Invicta. Alliance: NONE Faction: Gallente Federation but no corresponding Faction Standing hit
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:24:00 - [13] The simple 'fix' is as Jade said, allow FW Corps to assist other FW Corps that are at war and allow alliances to join FW. Standing hits is irrelevant. The point is when in a FW Corp, War dec'd, theres no ability of assistance.
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:30:00 - [14] Originally by: Ulstan Originally by: nVChicky The simple 'fix' is as Jade said, allow FW Corps to assist other FW Corps that are at war and allow alliances to join FW. Standing hits is irrelevant. The point is when in a FW Corp, War dec'd, theres no ability of assistance. That wouldn't really fix the issue we're discussing, unless you removed the ability of non militia corps to war dec militia corps, which is not at all something I'm convinced should happen. The issue is one of simply equality: a militia corp cannot enter their enemies hi sec space while in the militia without navy interference. Therefore, to keep things even, if you war dec a corporation belonging to a faction militia, you shouldn't be able to enter their hi sec space without navy interference. I think the point those for war dec's are getting at is that war dec's are part of the game. You say about making things 'even' the only way in which to do this and 'keep everyone happy' so to speak would be to allow FW Corps to 'aid' each other in wars through their own choice.
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Pithecanthropus Edited by: Pithecanthropus on 02/07/2008 15:29:33 Originally by: Jade Constantine Problem is there aren't really any disadvantages for a corp joining a miltia. Its a hellova lot of free wardecs and no lasting consequence should they wish to leave at any time they choose. I completely oppose any principle that would allow corporations to make themselves un-wardecable is the bottom line. I think there is a huge problem with the Militia npc corp itself being un-wardecable but thats another story. Faction Warfare is designed to be meaningful pvp in empire and a way of allowing nationalists to contest low-sec systems. Its not designed to be a war-dec avoidance mechanic to protect entities from the consequences of their non FW actions. NO DISADVANTAGES!!! that's a funny one. Are you saying that not being able to fly in ALL of the opposing faction regions is NOT a disadvantage? If that's your idea, then by all means... YOU leave your alliance and join the militia and find out for yourself. Or, how about YOU take on all the rules of faction warfare within your declared wars? hmmmmmm? No, you wouldn't be so naive to take on that responsibility. How could you manage your Caldari attacks if you were not allowed in Caldari hi-sec. Oh, and another disadvantage... some milita members fly ships designed for certain complexes. So yes, you can gain an advange there if militia roaming ships are t1 frigs. Your war decs are about kills and griefs... not even a roleplay issue. That's just a fake coating you put on it all to try and justify your lameness. When corps join militia, they lose space, and gain a war... when YOU declare war on a milita corp, you gain the safety of space, and grief a war. I agree in heart Pithe BUT a few points 1) if people do not wish to be in a war dec the can leave the player Corp 2) newbie players WILL learn by War Dec;s if they stay in the Player Corp 3) The problem is support and lack of it
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 16:56:00 - [16] Jade please check your mail Thanks
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 17:42:00 - [17] Originally by: nVChicky Edited by: nVChicky on 02/07/2008 17:40:13 We can't have everything and I would personally settle for this Just because a Corp is in FW means they are not immune to aspects of War Dec's therefore they should have the ability to aid from other FW Corps as the non-FW Corp can aid its attack with other non-FW Corp. This isn't the end of the problem BUT will make 'fairer' gameplay. As per my post it may not please everyone but this post is a solution that would please a majority and would make the game fairer: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=812583&page=1
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:03:00 - [18] Real argument from war dec'd FW Corps: 'We have been war dec'd and cannot continue to fight with the militia due to extra wt's' 'We need to fight this! I want to be in a Player Corp and don't want to be 'popped' on sight by the war dec'ing Corp' 'We need some support we cannot do this on our own' Real argument from non-FW Corps: 'We want to join in on the war' 'We don't want to break our alliance, so lets war dec them to get a piece of the action' There is a similarity - Alliances. Those FW Corps that have not yet been war dec'd just wait till you are and you will see sense to my method of reasoning.
nVChicky	Posted - 2008.07.03 18:39:00 - [19] im sure steel thats mixing personal opinion and game playability

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