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Scrubologist	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:16:00 - [1] I'm a land surveyor in the US. Many of you don't know what that means. In short, we get paid to show ppl where property lines are located, where to build houses, streets, etc. We use a very exact kind of GPS software to do this kind of work -- accurate to within 3/8" (1/2cm). But, to do this we need at least 5 satellites overhead. We usually see anywhere from 7 to 10 satellites during a normal day. Our field computers allow us to see where these satellites are at any given time of the day. Recently (past couple of days) we no longer see so many satellites. I contacted my network specialist. He confirmed that there aren't the normal number of satellites we're accustomed to seeing during the day. We now see only 4 or 5 satellites. I asked him what the heck is going on? He said...dunno. All I can tell you is that there are now 12 GPS satellites orbiting over and near Iran. Don't believe me? Check the satellite tracks here: http://science.nasa.gov/RealTime/jtrack/3d/JTrack3D.html SPECULATION I find it very coincidental that the GPS satellite orbits have been altered very soon after the Israeli Air Force conducted coordinated maneuvers to "war game" a target 900 miles (the approx. distance from Israel to Iran) in the past 2 weeks. Like I said...I used to see 7 to 10 satellites each day. Now I see 4 or 5. Draw you own conclusions, folks. Scrubby
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:21:00 - [2] Hmm, that is indeed interesting. I wasn't aware that Israel controlled all of the GPS satalites for the US. As an additional note, there's usually a fair bit of war mongering to convince the public to send troops if we're going to invade somewhe^W^Winitiate a police action or search for WMD. IMO, you're overreacting and need to set the tinfoil down. :) -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Siberys	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:28:00 - [3] I'm not worried about the israelies taking our satilites, I'm worried about Mccain starting a war and there being a draft. I pray he only has one term, 'cause by the end of that one I will have just turned 18.
Zyck Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:29:00 - [4] It surprises me a bit that the military doesn't have their own GPS satellites?
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:44:00 - [5] Edited by: DubanFP on 02/07/2008 02:44:19 Originally by: Zyck It surprises me a bit that the military doesn't have their own GPS satellites? If they did they probably would just use less accurate, lower tech, GPS satellites for civilians rather then adding scrambling to civilian GPS usage. I'm pretty sure they use the same satellites since GPS was originally for military usage put into civilian use. That and the cost for a global GPS system is Immense. Can you imagine doubling that just to have a separate civilian system? P.S. Aside from the Iraq issue that Java program is pretty cool. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
Scrubologist	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:51:00 - [6] Liang Nuren, you made an assumption and it's wrong. The United States Dept. of Defense (DOD) controls the GPS satellites...not Israel. It always has and always will control them. They're part of the national defense infrastructure. Land Surveyors and others use them at the sufferance of the DOD. These satellites were redirected to orbit over Iran/middle east. Don't doubt me. If you do some research, you'll see that there are extensive publications regarding the orbits and location of these satellites...and those orbits have changed. IMO, Liang Nuren, you should do some research before you express an opinion. Otherwise you just look foolish.
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Scrubologist IMO, Liang Nuren, you should do some research before you express an opinion. Otherwise you just look foolish. I think he was implying that Israel was in league with the US over something involving Iran. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.02 03:11:00 - [8] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 02/07/2008 03:11:01 Originally by: Scrubologist Liang Nuren, you made an assumption and it's wrong. The United States Dept. of Defense (DOD) controls the GPS satellites...not Israel. It always has and always will control them. They're part of the national defense infrastructure. Land Surveyors and others use them at the sufferance of the DOD. These satellites were redirected to orbit over Iran/middle east. Don't doubt me. If you do some research, you'll see that there are extensive publications regarding the orbits and location of these satellites...and those orbits have changed. IMO, Liang Nuren, you should do some research before you express an opinion. Otherwise you just look foolish. Wow, how to respond to your ridiculous rumor mongering. Let's break this down into some smaller chunks for you: - I know well that Israel does not control our GPS/Defense satellites. - Additionally, your randomly chosen supporting fact related to Israel is ludicrous at best. You should just cite news articles of Bush threatening to strike Iran link, Jun 13 - Third, there hasn't really been enough public support gathering here in the States for a full scale invasion of Iran. The President/Congress really don't have the public support to spend on it. Really, stop flaming long enough to read the implications of what I said, rather than just mindlessly flaming me because I don't believe in your favorite pet agenda. Yeah, because the US totally moved our satellites to help Israel with their war games. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Akiba Penrose Minmatar PAK	Posted - 2008.07.02 03:24:00 - [9] Originally by: Scrubologist All I can tell you is that there are now 12 GPS satellites orbiting over and near Iran. How many does usually orbit over and near Iran? Originally by: Scrubologist These satellites were redirected to orbit over Iran/middle east. What makes you draw that conclusion? - - Falcons
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2008.07.02 03:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Siberys I'm not worried about the israelies taking our satilites, I'm worried about Mccain starting a war and there being a draft. I pray he only has one term, 'cause by the end of that one I will have just turned 18. Don't worry, we could always escape to Canadia. (Yes, that was intentional) On another note...this song that is on subject is AWESOME. Bear McCreary has done the best music I've ever heard in television/movies. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Scrubologist	Posted - 2008.07.02 10:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Liang Nuren Hmm, that is indeed interesting. I wasn't aware that Israel controlled all of the GPS satalites for the US. -Liang It seems you DID say Israel controls the satellites. Secondly, I'm not warmongering. You have it bass-ackwards. I'm suggesting, like my thread title stated, that something is going to happen with Iran. Do I support that? Absolutely not. The US has created a terrible situation in the middle east and I'm concerned that DOD's alteration of the GPS satellite orbits implies to me an escalation in the standoff with Iran to a military confrontation. And it's not a pet agenda of mine. And your right that Bush has threatened to attack Iran. Did the EU's lack of support for an invasion of Iraq in 2003 stop him? Why should he worry now considering that he has 6 months left in office. Stop with the ad hominem attacks, Liang. If your quote above was meant as sarcasm you should have said so. I saw no indication of that and corrected you. No flame. You looked foolish and uninformed. And to answer the question asked in another post here... the satellites' orbits are timed to spread them evenly across Europe, North America, Asia, and the southern hemispere. That timing was very recently altered to get a higher concentration over Iran. A check with my GPS networking consultant told me that 12 of them now pass over Iran. Where did they come from? Evidently, the 6-10 that I usually see over North America has been reduced to 4 or 5. Watch the news, folks.
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 10:48:00 - [12] Quote: I'm worried about Mccain starting a war and there being a draft. He has to get elected first? I WILL vote for McCain, but I'm pretty sure he won't be winning this election. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Helix Fluxx Caldari Contempo Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.02 11:01:00 - [13] If you people had the faintest idea how GPS actually worked you'd realise that thie idea of moving the satellites is so utterly ludicrous it's untrue. If you're picking up less satellites with your GPS reciever it's more liekyl to be due to atmospheric or climatic conditions than the physical location of the satellites. See, the thing is, GPS satellites are a near geostationary orbit around the Earth, and there's loads of them, under the control of the US Government (afaik). What your reciever does is takes the data it gets from the satellites it sees and works out where you are from data it gets from them. If they started shuffling satellites about (bearing in mind this takes fuel, which the things aren't loaded with to start with), you'd have every airline on the planet screaming as they all end up going off course becuase the signal that their GPS recievers use to decode and give a position is in the wrong place. Having more GPS satellites over Isreal or Iran, wherever, won't actually increase the accuracy of fire any more than it already can be achieved with military grade GPS decoders. On this note, just before the first Gulf War, many ships and oil drilling rigs in the North Sea used GPS but it was deliberatley very innaccurate (thanks to the US DOD putting on a deliberate error to the data). This meant that they could be several metres away from a known point, and special software had to be used to try to Mathematically calculate out the added error. 2 days before Desert Storm kicked off, all the error date was removed by the US DOD and all of a sudden GPS was accurate to less than a metre. Go figure. In the North Sea. Not by moving satellites around in orbit.
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2008.07.02 11:09:00 - [14] US DOD controls teh GPS system. But since Israel is such a big buddy to the US I am sure they let them do waht they like :P
Shinnen Caldari Northern Intelligence	Posted - 2008.07.02 11:12:00 - [15] Originally by: Scrubologist http://science.nasa.gov/RealTime/jtrack/3d/JTrack3D.html sweeeeet, I didn't even know there were that many satillites! O_O Originally by: Jenny Spitfire This porposal have good brans.
Siberys	Posted - 2008.07.02 11:57:00 - [16] Originally by: Bhaal Quote: I'm worried about Mccain starting a war and there being a draft. He has to get elected first? I WILL vote for McCain, but I'm pretty sure he won't be winning this election. You do realise with the democrats divided Obama has almost no hope of winning the election unless he take hillory as his VP, but then he loses any conservative voters he had, but if he picks a white man as his VP, he loses the democrats and gains the conservatives. McCain has no such problem, so I place my money on him winning, there being a war with Iran, and a draft, and me fleeing to canada sometime in 2012.
Mazzarins Demise Profit Development and Research Association	Posted - 2008.07.02 12:20:00 - [17] Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 02/07/2008 12:21:08 Originally by: Scrubologist Recently (past couple of days) we no longer see so many satellites. I contacted my network specialist. He confirmed that there aren't the normal number of satellites we're accustomed to seeing during the day. We now see only 4 or 5 satellites. I asked him what the heck is going on? He said...dunno. All I can tell you is that there are now 12 GPS satellites orbiting over and near Iran. I just want to ask a question. How did you jump to the conclusion that all 12 are now shifted to Iran? First you asked your network specialist where they went and he said "dunno," but then you immediately think they're all watching Iran. Where is the evidence to support that jump? While I'm sure we are watching Iran very closely, I just want some evidence is all .
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 12:32:00 - [18] Edited by: Bhaal on 02/07/2008 12:33:19 Quote: You do realise with the democrats divided Obama has almost no hope of winning the election unless he take hillory as his VP, but then he loses any conservative voters he had, but if he picks a white man as his VP, he loses the democrats and gains the conservatives. McCain has no such problem, so I place my money on him winning, there being a war with Iran, and a draft, and me fleeing to canada sometime in 2012. I personally think that is a bunch of paranoia... I don't like Obama at all, and I hate left wing liberalism, but this is prime time for the Dems to win. Obama already leads in the national polls, and his lead will only increase over time. Bush ruined it this time around for any Rep to win. McCain's biggest problem is he is Rep, even if he is the most moderate Rep to ever get the nomination, one who has gone against Bush on many things, he still is a Rep, and that dooms him. Obama will win. Even if McCain happens to win, there will be no war with Iran unless Iran fires first. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Xen Gin Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.07.02 13:48:00 - [19] You could wait until Galileo is operational.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:07:00 - [20] Dunno what is up with your GPS receivers but you do not understand the mechanics of orbiting satellites. As noted above you simply cannot shuffle them around as you please. Once they are in their orbits they are pretty much stuck there. What maneuvering capabilities they possess are just to nudge them a bit here and there to maintain their orbit (orbits decay over time). Some few satellites (like spy satellites) can shift orbits more than others but even that is limited and something they are very reluctant to do. The more you move them the more fuel it takes and those satellites have very limited fuel reserves. Once that fuel is gone the satellite is so much space trash not long afterwards. I guarantee you the US has all the spy satellites it needs over Iran and probably has for ages. GPS satellites are a cloud around the earth...no need to move those. If they really needed more capability over there they'd launch some new satellites. Of course the Iranians can spot those newly appeared satellites over their heads so if you are trying to be sneaky about an attack signalling it like this is not the best idea. In short, whatever you are witnessing, it is not an indication of a prelude to an attack on Iran. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:16:00 - [21] Originally by: Siberys You do realise with the democrats divided Obama has almost no hope of winning the election unless he take hillory as his VP, but then he loses any conservative voters he had, but if he picks a white man as his VP, he loses the democrats and gains the conservatives. McCain has no such problem, so I place my money on him winning, there being a war with Iran, and a draft, and me fleeing to canada sometime in 2012. This has to be the worst election analysis I have ever seen. Everyone in this thread is dumber for having read that. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Sidi elDarfel	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:55:00 - [22] If there's a war, can I have your stuff? How do sats orbit a country? Is Iran a planet now?
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:01:00 - [23] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Dunno what is up with your GPS receivers but you do not understand the mechanics of orbiting satellites. As noted above you simply cannot shuffle them around as you please. Once they are in their orbits they are pretty much stuck there. What maneuvering capabilities they possess are just to nudge them a bit here and there to maintain their orbit (orbits decay over time). Some few satellites (like spy satellites) can shift orbits more than others but even that is limited and something they are very reluctant to do. The more you move them the more fuel it takes and those satellites have very limited fuel reserves. Once that fuel is gone the satellite is so much space trash not long afterwards. I guarantee you the US has all the spy satellites it needs over Iran and probably has for ages. GPS satellites are a cloud around the earth...no need to move those. If they really needed more capability over there they'd launch some new satellites. Of course the Iranians can spot those newly appeared satellites over their heads so if you are trying to be sneaky about an attack signalling it like this is not the best idea. In short, whatever you are witnessing, it is not an indication of a prelude to an attack on Iran. You can change teh inclination of the orbit realtivly easy tho.
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:59:00 - [24] Seeing as GPS satellites work perfectly well from anywhere on Earth at the moment. The orbits are carefully arranged so that at any time, 4 or more GPS satellites are visible in the sky from any point. So why would they need to "move" them above Iran? Is this an urban legend in the making already, mixing up spy satellites and GPS satellites? Smacks to me of a crock of smelly stuff.
Slanty McGarglefist University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.02 16:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Scrubologist Stuffages __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.02 17:59:00 - [26]
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.07.02 18:10:00 - [27] Edited by: Amastat on 02/07/2008 18:11:11 Let's just hope thats just a coincidence and not the reality then - however I wouldn't immediately dismiss something as serious as this. If Isreal had the balls to attack Iran... I really don't even want to think about the consequences of this. Just what the human race needs - another couple hundred thousand human beings destroyed, in the name of god, AGAIN. More people have been killed in the name of religion, more than any other reason, in our entire history. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.02 18:20:00 - [28] On a barely-related note, apparently the European rival to GPS, Galileo, is properly starting development now. ------ Originally by: Micheal Dietrich You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Amastat Just what the human race needs - another couple hundred thousand human beings destroyed, in the name of god, AGAIN. More people have been killed in the name of religion, more than any other reason, in our entire history. Thing is, you see, God will protect the side that is right. (Yup, you've probably spotted the tiny flaw there.)
Wilko1776 Minmatar An Eye For An Eye Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:37:00 - [30] TIN FOIL HATS FOR SALE, CONVO ME INGAME 1 MILLION ISK.

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