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Best ship (DPS?) for L4 missions

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CuddleMonkey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.06 03:59:00 - [1] I'm currently in a Dominix that can tank and complete any L4 mission. With Drones my DPS is 575. Note I'm using 250mm Dual railguns (not blasters). I was curious what the "best ship" for doing L4 missions was (i.e. what can blast through them the quickest) and what the DPS of the recommended ship (and outfitting) is. Thanks! --- CuddleMonkey!
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.06 04:06:00 - [2] CNR and Golem, depends on the mission. For certain Serpentis and Gurista missions the Kronos can almost tie. For certain Blood and Sansha missions the Paladin, Apoc, Nightmare and Geddon can be even faster. If pimped out the Domi can do most missions even faster than the ones above. Supposedly the Mach can do certain Angel missions faster than the Golem, however I kind of doubt it. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 945694
CuddleMonkey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.06 04:14:00 - [3] What "tricked" out Domi setup are you thinking of? --- CuddleMonkey!
Ezekiel Sulastin Central Research Nexus	Posted - 2008.07.06 05:19:00 - [4] t2 sentries, sentry dmg rig, tracking links, and 350mm/425mm railguns with MFS. ---- WTB Armor Nerf Hardener II, 10^100 isk OBO
CuddleMonkey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.06 06:31:00 - [5] Do Sentries do the most damage? Also, are there non-sentry drone damage rigs, or just sentries? Is there a buildout for this "spec" on BattleClinic you can link? --- CuddleMonkey!
Slade Hoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.06 06:48:00 - [6] Edited by: Slade Hoo on 06/07/2008 06:52:37 navy apoc/paladin/nightmare while doing missions at an amarr agent whould be the fastest. 800 turret instant DPS without tracking problems or defender missile issues + drones. can hardly be beaten i think. are they the "best" ships? depends....you cannot maintain an afk tank while doing this dps with them. and they aren't very flexible...they are limited to em/thermal damage. so DPS drops e.g. at Angels or Guristas below the competition. at least its relatively cheap...no need for expensive faction/complex modules.
Helen coracao ardente The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.06 08:00:00 - [7] Originally by: Slade Hoo Edited by: Slade Hoo on 06/07/2008 06:52:37 navy apoc/paladin/nightmare while doing missions at an amarr agent whould be the fastest. 800 turret instant DPS without tracking problems or defender missile issues + drones. can hardly be beaten i think. are they the "best" ships? depends....you cannot maintain an afk tank while doing this dps with them. and they aren't very flexible...they are limited to em/thermal damage. so DPS drops e.g. at Angels or Guristas below the competition. at least its relatively cheap...no need for expensive faction/complex modules. Nightmare can easily get 1000+ dps with good skills against Blood/Sansha.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.06 08:10:00 - [8] Even a pimped domi can't match the cream of the crop Golem/Paladin/Nightmare for pure efficiency and gank. That doesn't mean the Dominix isn't a great mission ship, and there's still a ways you can go to improve on your 575 DPS.
Thetys Caldari Surfer des Sandwurms	Posted - 2008.07.06 09:18:00 - [9] i did a LOT of lvl 4 mission (~2k) with a CNR because the lack of other ships (in the past) to compete with a faction fitted CNR. when the nightmare got the marauder like changes i tried one and i love it. as some of the pre-posters said the nightmare is a realy good alternative to caldari missile boats like golem and cnr. tbh, i never tried a domi for lvl 4's but i think using drones for main dps is, in some situations, a lil bit stressy because of the micro management of the drones. cheapest ship of those 3 vessels (not taking domi into account) is the golem (it does not need faction items to tank entire stages) but still, if you want an easy-mode ship with moderate skill requirements go for a cnr, both, golem and nightmare need a lot of skill pts to be cool tah tah thetys ------
Bambi Existentialist Collective	Posted - 2008.07.06 10:34:00 - [10] I find the Golem finishes level 4 missions a bit faster than the Paladin, but the Paladin is more fun to fly imo. If you are running missions for ISK then a marauder is the way to go for the looting/salvage ability. EVE is dead, long live EVE!
Slade Hoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.06 11:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Helen Nightmare can easily get 1000+ dps with good skills against Blood/Sansha. My calculations used Pulse setup...i don't like beams...higher damage on battleships, but they really lack in tracking cruisers at 10-15km range...really rips down average dps in total for me
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.06 11:36:00 - [12] For pure mission kill speed, nothing beats a CNR (well, except of.c. a State Issue Raven). However, if you loot/salvage your missions, a Golem will finish faster as it'll do a lot of the looting while doing the mission, and will gather most wrecks in a nice easy salvageable group. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Viqtoria Caldari Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.07.06 12:53:00 - [13] officer fitted nightmare.
Kate Libby Caldari Cybergate Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.06 15:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Kerfira if you loot/salvage your missions, a Golem will finish faster as it'll do a lot of the looting while doing the mission, and will gather most wrecks in a nice easy salvageable group. like anyone wouldn't loot/salvage their mission wrecks? ---------------- Love and Kisses.
Michael Caldar DangerZone Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.06 15:49:00 - [15] You'd be surprised how many people don't - to each his own, I guess . From my experience it's a Golem. Huge cargo hold, nice DPS, twin 40km reaching tractors and a Salvager. Half the ammo use. If there was a coffee machine inside I'd moved in. IMHO it is the best all-round mission running ship by far. YMMV
CuddleMonkey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.06 16:26:00 - [16] So basically Caldari Missile Boats are where it's at then? Nightmare/CNR/Golem seems to be the consensus. I'm trained Gallente, so switching to Caldari will be a major switch... Any other Gallente solutions? --- CuddleMonkey!
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.07.06 19:49:00 - [17] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 06/07/2008 19:50:54 Originally by: CuddleMonkey So basically Caldari Missile Boats are where it's at then? Nightmare/CNR/Golem seems to be the consensus. I'm trained Gallente, so switching to Caldari will be a major switch... Any other Gallente solutions? Caldari ships are highly overrated due to their convenience and ease of use, they are by no means the be-all end-all mission ships everyone makes them out to be. They are pretty good at all the missions, but the best at none of them really. Fastest finishers are the laserboats due to their immense instant longrange dps. Drawback being that they only work well with Amarr agents. A pimped Domi should be able to do pretty damn well too though. Like for example these: For Guristas: Lows: Internal Force Field Array I Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Flux I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Flux I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Flux I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Flux I Meds: Domination Shield Boost Amplifier Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Ballistic Deflection Field Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Highs: Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Rigs: Drone Scope Chip I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones: 5 * Garde II for stuff within 45ish km 5 * Warden II for BS beyond 45ish km 5 * whatever works for you to kill close stuff Deals 928 dps with gardes, 800ish with Wardens, and tanks Guristas 350ish sustained/590ish peak. More than enough for any missions when you deal this kind of dps. Or this for Blood/Sansha: Lows: Dark Blood Reactor Control Unit Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Large Armor Repairer II Dark Blood Armor EM Hardener Dark Blood Armor EM Hardener Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener Meds: Gist C-Type 100MN Afterburner Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Highs: Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Gallente Navy 350mm Railgun,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Rigs: Drone Scope Chip I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones: 5 * Garde II 5 * Curator II 5 * whatever to kill close stuff Needs a 3% PG implant also. You just need to adjust your tanking style to your NPCs, shieldtanking the EM rats is impractical, while it is very viable against the kin rats. And of course these setups need your full attention on the game. And also if you finish missions at speeds these long range fits with 800+ dps provide, looting and salvaging actually reduces your isk/hour except maybe salvaging angels and looting Mercs/EoM/Faction Navy. And for those you best come back in a dedicated ship for it. Make suicide ganking more difficult!
CuddleMonkey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.06 21:07:00 - [18] Edited by: CuddleMonkey on 06/07/2008 21:11:42 Edited by: CuddleMonkey on 06/07/2008 21:09:45 I don't see how those builds would survive a L4 mission like WC (perhaps the second with hardeners), but where would you get the cap to run all those guns? And with the 1st outfit, there's no hardeners at all... Also, the Sentry Drones do very little damage above a T2 Ogre... so why use Sentries? Especially in a spawn/drone difficulty mission like WC? --- CuddleMonkey!
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.07.06 21:20:00 - [19] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 06/07/2008 21:21:05 Originally by: CuddleMonkey Edited by: CuddleMonkey on 06/07/2008 21:09:45 I don't see how those builds would survive a L4 mission like WC (perhaps the second with hardeners), but where would you get the cap to run all those guns? And with the 1st outfit, there's no hardeners at all... Also, the Sentry Drones do very little damage above a T2 Ogre... so why use Sentries? Especially in a spawn/drone difficulty mission like WC? Try looking again, the first one does have hardeners... Hint: It is a shieldtank. Also, did you ever hear about ganktanking? The point is not to run the repper/booster all the time and have your buffer do most of the soaking while your superior damage reduces incoming dps so fast that you need to do only very little actual tanking. The only thing I am not taking into account is drone aggro bugs, which I guess might lead to your demise in WC or other missions susceptible to that stuff. But if those do not occur, no WC nor any other mission short of EA 5 that I do would kill either of these setups. In fact my Golem runs a shieldtank similar to the first fit and never has any trouble. And you use sentries because they instantly deliver their dps, while heavies use like half of theirs to travel time and thus are VERY inefficient. Oh and the PG comes from that Reactor control unit in the second fit, while the CPU for the first one comes from heavy use of faction modules. Make suicide ganking more difficult!
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.06 22:46:00 - [20] If you're after running missions fast, Shieldtanks are way way way way better than armortanks. This is however also reflected in the prices of the higher end shield and armor gear. There is one relevant midslot module(AB) that makes your missions significantly faster, there are quite a few lowslot modules, and they may be used several times. Tanks are largely irrelevant. After a certain point, any more tank is useless, and the higher your damage is, the lower that point is. Reason caldari wins, is not only because they can master shield tanks somewhat easily, and select their damagetypes but because their damage in fact is in the very top of the scale. 1000 dps isn't unheard of for a mission ship. As for the pimped domi, I would normally agree that it's not the king of the hill, but I have been proven wrong time upon time. The domi can be shieldtanked and it can put out some increadible hurt. Yes, it's a nightmare to fit out and it's a gank waiting to happen, but.... Parrots, commence! Postcount: 697093
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.07.06 23:22:00 - [21] Domi without drone link augmentors is fairly limited in many missions...
CuddleMonkey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.06 23:26:00 - [22] So I wonder what max DPS flying Gallente would be for missions. Right now I can do any L4 solo; I'm just trying to get more DPS. I could train to CNR in just a few days, but then I'd have to train missiles. I'm actually already well-trained in shield (I used to shield tank). Just trying to come up with the 'next step' for doing L4 missions quicker and more efficiently (i.e. same tanking ability, higher DPS, faster movement/kills). --- CuddleMonkey!
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.07.07 00:30:00 - [23] Edited by: Zo5o on 07/07/2008 00:41:10 Quote: So I wonder what max DPS flying Gallente would be for missions. Against kin/therm-weak rats, Kronos. Pimped domi setups may be able to beat its dps in EFT by a slight margin, but certainly not true dps when you factor in Kronos's tracking bonus, web bonus, and added range. Especially the web bonus. Shield tanked domi loses most or all of its gun dps while attacking close-orbiting ships that would be slowed by 99% by a Kronos, absolutely melting under its guns. Domis without drone link augmentors lose true dps to travel time to get in range of many rats.
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.07 01:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Zo5o Edited by: Zo5o on 07/07/2008 00:41:10 Quote: So I wonder what max DPS flying Gallente would be for missions. Against kin/therm-weak rats, Kronos. Pimped domi setups may be able to beat its dps in EFT by a slight margin, but certainly not true dps when you factor in Kronos's tracking bonus, web bonus, and added range. Especially the web bonus. Shield tanked domi loses most or all of its gun dps while attacking close-orbiting ships that would be slowed by 99% by a Kronos, absolutely melting under its guns. Domis without drone link augmentors lose true dps to travel time to get in range of many rats. The entire idea here would be that there pretty much are no close orbitting ships. Around 1k dps(just above with Garde, just below with Warden) all effective at 50-70km, half with a signature resolution of 125m and half with 400, 0.018 tracking on the guns, 0.036 on the Gardes. Example EFT figures of build I've both witnessed and read about. Someone made a huge thread of "this is how I did it, now buy the ship I used" about this particular kind of build and even included some clip of how it worked. For missions where close orbiting frigates are unavoidable there are simple solutions to it, 5 light drones while approaching next gate clears it rather easily with nearly no waste of time, a faction web lets gardes make short work of them. Kronos doesn't do very much damage, but it compensates for it by 3 utility highs, role bonuses and being somewhat cheap relative to it's speed. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 822100
Dvores	Posted - 2008.07.07 02:31:00 - [25] The domi is really nice for L4s, and it's definitely one of the best ships for L4s. I don't think that there's an absolute best though. Right now I'm flying in a hype that can tank 500-ish dps and deal 700ish out to 55km, my current goal is to upgrade to a kronos that tanks/does 600+/800+. I also have a Domi and a Drake that I use on occasion (bored, cross-trained) I'm assuming you're using faction gear, but if you aren't, go for it. That + complex gear can let you run stuff so much faster its just silly. Even small changes, such as a Shield Booster here and a few Cruise Launchers there, can boost your mission run time and/or your security by leaps and boundsMy ideal (20B isk) ship is a kronos with all centus x-type/officer gear which can run stuff stupidly fast and omni tank 2000+ dps... but if I had such a ship, I would never undock it b/c I'd fear getting scanned down and killed.
LetsDoThis	Posted - 2008.07.07 03:42:00 - [26] Optimal range rigged pulse Apoc, without a doubt. 90km with scorch, 31km with multifreq, ridiculous tracking, fully sustainable.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.07.07 05:55:00 - [27] hmm ... I have a standard t2 sentry Domi with named t1 350mm rails and t1 gardes ... I get around 600 dps ... With some tweaking I could break 700dps with better skills and t2 sentries ... I think the "best" L4 boat is the one that suits your play style. I did some L4 missions in a raven some time ago but I switched to the Domi for pure drone love ... best L4 ship is about personal preference ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Ada Riklova	Posted - 2008.07.07 10:31:00 - [28] Originally by: Hugh Ruka hmm ... I have a standard t2 sentry Domi with named t1 350mm rails and t1 gardes ... I get around 600 dps ... With some tweaking I could break 700dps with better skills and t2 sentries ... I think the "best" L4 boat is the one that suits your play style. I did some L4 missions in a raven some time ago but I switched to the Domi for pure drone love ... best L4 ship is about personal preference ... I'm using a domi as well. Sentries seem to be a must however when doing Worlds Collide. Too much drone aggro there sadly On a side note... I have an alt that I'm thinking of using to add some extra DPS, currently she's got minnie CR and BS to lvl 5 (Battlecruisers / HACs are easily trained). What would be the best ship (and setup) to use? (Or should I go the easy way and train for a caracal / cerberus?
CuddleMonkey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.07 18:37:00 - [29] A ton of great information here; thanks to everyone for participating! Looks like I need to get my sentry drone training up and that the Dominix is a "good" L4 mission runner. I can look at raising the DPS through better guns and drones and keep it at that. I can clear out all of WC (including Salvage) in roughly 3 hours (note I use my Dom to clear, Catalyst to salvage). I'd hope to get that time down to less than two hours... --- CuddleMonkey!
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.07.07 18:45:00 - [30] Originally by: CuddleMonkey A ton of great information here; thanks to everyone for participating! Looks like I need to get my sentry drone training up and that the Dominix is a "good" L4 mission runner. I can look at raising the DPS through better guns and drones and keep it at that. I can clear out all of WC (including Salvage) in roughly 3 hours (note I use my Dom to clear, Catalyst to salvage). I'd hope to get that time down to less than two hours... Eww Ok, I don't wanna shatter any illusions you might harbor, but I can clean out WC including salvaging the Angel BS (the only thing worth salvaging really) in 50 minutes or less... Taking three hours is very very bad, and two will still be very bad. Make suicide ganking more difficult!
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.07.07 21:16:00 - [31] Edited by: Zo5o on 07/07/2008 21:43:14 Quote: The entire idea here would be that there pretty much are no close orbitting ships. This is fine in theory, but in some missions you're just not going to avoid close orbiting ships if you're putting out 300 or 3000 dps. I think the bottom line is that there is no one best ship for all the missions. A pimped shield domi will outperform a Kronos on some missions, and a Kronos will outperform a pimped shield domi on some other missions. A Golem will outperform both on some missions. A Paladin will outperform the Golem on some missions. Etc. Quote: all effective at 50-70km You're not hitting past 60km without drone link augmentors, and you're not getting 1k dps without 6 guns. Quote: For missions where close orbiting frigates are unavoidable I was actually thinking about close-orbiting cruisers. There's missions that drop your ship right into the middle of them, and rails without tracking mods, bonuses, or a webs simply aren't going to hit them. It's all good though. I'd still consider the Domi the best overall mission running ship right behind Ravenkind when it comes to versatility, e.g. ability to mission against all rat types equally. However, I own and fly a Domi and a Kronos, and my Kronos clearly outperforms my Domi against the rat types it's good against. It's targeting range adds a lot of true DPS to it, taking travel time to get in range of rats out of the equation, and honestly, the web and tracking bonuses even help against BS's... orbiting BS's go down REAL quick like when every other shot on them is a wrecking or excellent hit.
Xano Heroma	Posted - 2008.07.07 21:42:00 - [32] personelly I think it's diffecult to say "this" ship is the bedst.... theirs many ships that do the task well ! some better for pure isk/hour, some better for lazy style. atm I fly a nighthawk with HM (552dps) and offcause a "well" working tank,,, but am heading for a Golem soon for faster kill rate. the domi is no doubt a very good mission ship aswell ( due to its drone drugs ) ;O) as I see it.... is more a matter of what you have skills for !
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2008.07.07 23:59:00 - [33] Sansha/Blood - Nightmare/Paladin are the high-end, followed by Abaddon and Armageddon. Serpentis/Gurista - Possibly a Kronos due to the resistances. I have no personal experience with this however. When in doubt - Raven/CNR/Golem line. (Barring the Amarr NPCs, I can tell you with certainty that Amarr ships are better.)
Marion Rendois	Posted - 2008.07.08 00:30:00 - [34] There is no one best ship. Use two! Get your tank into a passive shield tank setup (ie: Drake or Raven), have a second ship (alt or friend) providing drones for fire support, salvaging the mission as you go. Keep notes on the damage you took on your tank, and make sure to balance the tank's tank/DPS to suit the mission - if you never have to turn the shield booster on, you have too much tank. If your passive shield tank never drops below 50%, you have too much tank. Fitting a remote shield transfer to your drone/salvage boat can free up another slot on the tank to fit a ballistic control or target painter, for example. Having a tank moving into the mission space means the drone boat with sentries and railguns can sit back and focus on maximising DPS instead of worrying about tracking. So, why worry about trying to tweak 10% more DPS out of one ship when you can get 100% more DPS by using two ships? Even better, you'll gain the benefit of fleet bonuses!
Karan Kaldarian Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.08 00:32:00 - [35] Originally by: Xano Heroma personelly I think it's diffecult to say "this" ship is the bedst.... theirs many ships that do the task well ! some better for pure isk/hour, some better for lazy style. atm I fly a nighthawk with HM (552dps) and offcause a "well" working tank,,, but am heading for a Golem soon for faster kill rate. the domi is no doubt a very good mission ship aswell ( due to its drone drugs ) ;O) as I see it.... is more a matter of what you have skills for ! Are you reaching that value with or withouth droneÆs damage? And what kind missiles and rigs? How do you calculate drone dmg for second? My NH without drones damage (Hornet2) has a dps of 420 with 4 BCS fitted. It is far away your value, considering my skill maxed at lev 5, and I see something wrong: with 4 BCS I can see a Rof of 4,25 and a damage of 297,99 ( CN Scourge) with 3 BCS Rof raise at 4,38 but missile dmg stay at 297,99 (same missiles). So it seems that in the fitting windows adding one BCS ( or even 4 Bcs) it only change (and calculate) Rof but not missileÆs damage. Am I wrong? Anyone can explain it??
Caldus Ailwon	Posted - 2008.07.08 02:24:00 - [36] Edited by: Caldus Ailwon on 08/07/2008 02:40:52 Edited by: Caldus Ailwon on 08/07/2008 02:25:19 Nightmare with 4 tech II tachs. Why? 1) It can shoot out to 90 KM. 2) It can insta pop frigs out to 90 km 3) 857 DPS (with drones) 'Nuff said. That is with multifreqs. Optimal is 33km with 24 km falloff. For you missile pilots, that means plenty of shooty on BSs out to 43 km or so with the short range ammo. You can achieve 954 DPS by adding a 3rd faction heat sink... but this seems like a bad idea. That 3rd PDU II is a huge help. 4) Excellent tracking (.02375). I can shoot NPC ceptor/frigs as close as 20 km. 5) Total Shield at over 13,000 + resists at 76/81/75/79 = plenty of tank. 6) 27.15 damage modifier per Tach. LOL. Can turn shield booster on and off to keep the above running forever. No mission is too difficult to include World's Collide. Eve missions made even easier than they already are. I average 20 mil an hour running missions with that and that is not including Loyalty Points. (I don't salvage... not sure how that would change things... I'm guessing it would hurt me). I just played for 3 hours and earned 60 mil. I burn up Gurista missions as well. The 27.15 damage modifier is unstoppable. With the ability to wipe out frigates at range AND the fact that you don't need a cargo hold full of missiles, I am confident the Nightmare is even better than the CNR for Guristas. I am absolutely sure that a Nightmare pilot will do better in terms of ISK/hour when running Amarr missions than a CNR pilot can do on any mission type. Seriously, CNR are weak sauce in comparison. I do concede that it takes considerably more training time and ISK to fit and properly fly a Nightmare. So, in that respect, the CNR has an edge.
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.07.08 02:32:00 - [37] Quote: Get your tank into a passive... Raven LOL WUT
Xano Heroma	Posted - 2008.07.08 02:35:00 - [38] Edited by: Xano Heroma on 08/07/2008 02:44:05 Edited by: Xano Heroma on 08/07/2008 02:38:26 Originally by: Karan Kaldarian Originally by: Xano Heroma personelly I think it's diffecult to say "this" ship is the bedst.... theirs many ships that do the task well ! some better for pure isk/hour, some better for lazy style. atm I fly a nighthawk with HM (552dps) and offcause a "well" working tank,,, but am heading for a Golem soon for faster kill rate. the domi is no doubt a very good mission ship aswell ( due to its drone drugs ) ;O) as I see it.... is more a matter of what you have skills for ! Are you reaching that value with or withouth droneÆs damage? And what kind missiles and rigs? How do you calculate drone dmg for second? My NH without drones damage (Hornet2) has a dps of 420 with 4 BCS fitted. It is far away your value, considering my skill maxed at lev 5, and I see something wrong: with 4 BCS I can see a Rof of 4,25 and a damage of 297,99 ( CN Scourge) with 3 BCS Rof raise at 4,38 but missile dmg stay at 297,99 (same missiles). So it seems that in the fitting windows adding one BCS ( or even 4 Bcs) it only change (and calculate) Rof but not missileÆs damage. Am I wrong? Anyone can explain it?? i use no drones... a waist of time on the NH. Dread launchers + Caldari navy BCSs(all lows are BCSs) 3%dmg/rof implants noo dps rigs (i use rigs for shield) caldari navy scourge missiles. yes that part of fitting is bugged and always have been, and problely always will bee, its not a priotise to fix it. missile dmg is always wrong when you veiw their info ! only way to check you missiles true dmg is to go out and shout something that has no resist (like a structure) so your dps is problely higher than you think I actually think you have a higher dps than me m8 my launchers have 4.29 rof my missiles says in the bugged info window 281, dmg, but my missiles actually do 394, so 6x394/4.29 = 551 (ok i left out the ,** here) im guessing your dps is closer to 600
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.07.08 05:40:00 - [39] Originally by: Ada Riklova Originally by: Hugh Ruka hmm ... I have a standard t2 sentry Domi with named t1 350mm rails and t1 gardes ... I get around 600 dps ... With some tweaking I could break 700dps with better skills and t2 sentries ... I think the "best" L4 boat is the one that suits your play style. I did some L4 missions in a raven some time ago but I switched to the Domi for pure drone love ... best L4 ship is about personal preference ... I'm using a domi as well. Sentries seem to be a must however when doing Worlds Collide. Too much drone aggro there sadly On a side note... I have an alt that I'm thinking of using to add some extra DPS, currently she's got minnie CR and BS to lvl 5 (Battlecruisers / HACs are easily trained). What would be the best ship (and setup) to use? (Or should I go the easy way and train for a caracal / cerberus? Drone aggro is not an issue if you are not facing lots of Guristas. Those are the only rats that can kill a sentry drone fast with their missile alpha. Sentries have quite high hp. Generaly I release drones, kill one target before a sentry is through its shields, scoop, redeploy (all rats loose locks), kill another target, repeat the dance. Generaly I can kill almost any BS sized target in that time. It works quite well. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.07.08 15:07:00 - [40] Edited by: Pwett on 08/07/2008 15:12:09 /me comes out from the shadows. I like my vargur! It's just... fun. I used a fleet tempest before it, but with arties, not autocannons. 700 dps at 700m/s... I know, kinda low - but zoom zoom! /me hides. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
CuddleMonkey Gallente Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.07.08 18:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Eww Ok, I don't wanna shatter any illusions you might harbor, but I can clean out WC including salvaging the Angel BS (the only thing worth salvaging really) in 50 minutes or less... Taking three hours is very very bad, and two will still be very bad. This doesn't make sense. My DPS with drones is currently ~575. Do you have >1000DPS? I admit I can probably do a WC in ~2 hours if I really push it. Note what I do is clean a pocket, fly back to base, get my Catalyst, come back and loot, etc. Can you give more details on the ship you use and how you go about cleaning up? Doing WC in 50 mins... I'd LOVE to be able to do that... Note the 575 DPS is what is reported by EFT. --- CuddleMonkey!
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.07.08 19:07:00 - [42] Cuddle, the longest part of WC is flying between gates - think of how to reduce that time. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.07.08 19:22:00 - [43] Originally by: CuddleMonkey This doesn't make sense. My DPS with drones is currently ~575. Do you have >1000DPS? I admit I can probably do a WC in ~2 hours if I really push it. Note what I do is clean a pocket, fly back to base, get my Catalyst, come back and loot, etc. Can you give more details on the ship you use and how you go about cleaning up? Doing WC in 50 mins... I'd LOVE to be able to do that... Note the 575 DPS is what is reported by EFT. Well that explains a lot lol. You are like doing it the most inefficient way possible. If you do it fast in one fell swoop, you don't need to come back inbetween. Every warpout before mission completion equals epic fail for any seasoned mission runner. Ship I use for WC is a torp Golem. AB to the Angel Gate, kill the rats or ignore them using Zbikokis hacker card. Boommark the spot. Jump through, kill the stuff in room two, bookmark, AB to next gate, jump, kill the Aggro group near the Heron, loot the wreck, bookmark, warp home (Or optionally clear the Sansha side too or at least pop in there to see if you have a commander). Finish mission, come back to the bookmarks in my salvage hurricane, salvage the Angel/Sansha Battleships, return. Salvaging anything smaller than Battleships only reduces my isk per hour (unless it happens to be in range anyway), and salvaging anything other than Angel or Sansha/Blood is unprofitable by default. Make suicide ganking more difficult!
CuddleMonkey Gallente Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.07.08 21:26:00 - [44] Edited by: CuddleMonkey on 08/07/2008 21:26:48 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well that explains a lot lol. You are like doing it the most inefficient way possible. If you do it fast in one fell swoop, you don't need to come back inbetween. Every warpout before mission completion equals epic fail for any seasoned mission runner. Ship I use for WC is a torp Golem. AB to the Angel Gate, kill the rats or ignore them using Zbikokis hacker card. Boommark the spot. Jump through, kill the stuff in room two, bookmark, AB to next gate, jump, kill the Aggro group near the Heron, loot the wreck, bookmark, warp home (Or optionally clear the Sansha side too or at least pop in there to see if you have a commander). Finish mission, come back to the bookmarks in my salvage hurricane, salvage the Angel/Sansha Battleships, return. Salvaging anything smaller than Battleships only reduces my isk per hour (unless it happens to be in range anyway), and salvaging anything other than Angel or Sansha/Blood is unprofitable by default. I clean out every single ship (in both gate rooms) and salvage every single wreck (goal is max ISK). No skipping groups. I do try to time it so none of the wrecks disappear (2 hours on wrecks, correct? Even after the mission is complete?) --- CuddleMonkey!
Karan Kaldarian Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.08 23:32:00 - [45] Originally by: Xano Heroma Edited by: Xano Heroma on 08/07/2008 02:44:05 Edited by: Xano Heroma on 08/07/2008 02:38:26 Originally by: Karan Kaldarian Originally by: Xano Heroma personelly I think it's diffecult to say "this" ship is the bedst.... theirs many ships that do the task well ! some better for pure isk/hour, some better for lazy style. atm I fly a nighthawk with HM (552dps) and offcause a "well" working tank,,, but am heading for a Golem soon for faster kill rate. the domi is no doubt a very good mission ship aswell ( due to its drone drugs ) ;O) as I see it.... is more a matter of what you have skills for ! Are you reaching that value with or withouth droneÆs damage? And what kind missiles and rigs? How do you calculate drone dmg for second? My NH without drones damage (Hornet2) has a dps of 420 with 4 BCS fitted. It is far away your value, considering my skill maxed at lev 5, and I see something wrong: with 4 BCS I can see a Rof of 4,25 and a damage of 297,99 ( CN Scourge) with 3 BCS Rof raise at 4,38 but missile dmg stay at 297,99 (same missiles). So it seems that in the fitting windows adding one BCS ( or even 4 Bcs) it only change (and calculate) Rof but not missileÆs damage. Am I wrong? Anyone can explain it?? i use no drones... a waist of time on the NH. Dread launchers + Caldari navy BCSs(all lows are BCSs) 3%dmg/rof implants noo dps rigs (i use rigs for shield) caldari navy scourge missiles. yes that part of fitting is bugged and always have been, and problely always will bee, its not a priotise to fix it. missile dmg is always wrong when you veiw their info ! only way to check you missiles true dmg is to go out and shout something that has no resist (like a structure) so your dps is problely higher than you think I actually think you have a higher dps than me m8 my launchers have 4.29 rof my missiles says in the bugged info window 281, dmg, but my missiles actually do 394, so 6x394/4.29 = 551 (ok i left out the ,** here) im guessing your dps is closer to 600 I did imagine to do that for real damage, but not on a structure. Tnx for the help. The worst thing to reach that damage is the cost of those caldari navy scourge missiles. I'm probably going for a Golem too (have already skill ready , marauder at lev4). I did try to fit a Rattle with siege launchers, but I'm actually not so confident that the risk pay the gains. I'l try the fifth BCS on my NH just to see what happens with max damage, even knowing that staking penalty will erase great part of it.. There are not so many lev 4 missioin really dangerous for a NH. I used 5 hornet II but damage 95x15dmgx1,74 dmg multiplx4)seems to be bugged in fitting windows as for BCS. They can eat alone Guristas assaulter or whatever smaller. Unfortunatly is not a good time for drones .....too many ninja salvag.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.07.09 02:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Xano Heroma i use no drones... a waist of time on the NH .... WHAT ? 75-100 extra DPS is "a waste of time" ? Are you insane ?!? _ *The mineral/moonstuff balance \|\| THE* nanofix**
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.09 07:55:00 - [47] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Xano Heroma i use no drones... a waist of time on the NH .... WHAT ? 75-100 extra DPS is "a waste of time" ? Are you insane ?!? NH damage is kinda crappy to begin with. It needs every last bit it can get, heh, including drones.
Xano Heroma	Posted - 2008.07.09 10:05:00 - [48] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Xano Heroma i use no drones... a waist of time on the NH .... WHAT ? 75-100 extra DPS is "a waste of time" ? Are you insane ?!? hehe perhaps i just hate using drones and a nighthawk kills frigs faster than the drones can fly to them anyway, so yeah I prefer not using them. but teknicly you are ofcause right
Xano Heroma	Posted - 2008.07.09 10:09:00 - [49] Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Xano Heroma i use no drones... a waist of time on the NH .... WHAT ? 75-100 extra DPS is "a waste of time" ? Are you insane ?!? NH damage is kinda crappy to begin with. It needs every last bit it can get, heh, including drones. Well actually the NH is just crappy for soloing L4s(dps wise) im going for Golem very soon !
Xano Heroma	Posted - 2008.07.09 10:26:00 - [50] Originally by: Karan Kaldarian I did imagine to do that for real damage, but not on a structure. Tnx for the help. The worst thing to reach that damage is the cost of those caldari navy scourge missiles. I'm probably going for a Golem too (have already skill ready , marauder at lev4). I did try to fit a Rattle with siege launchers, but I'm actually not so confident that the risk pay the gains. I'l try the fifth BCS on my NH just to see what happens with max damage, even knowing that staking penalty will erase great part of it.. There are not so many lev 4 missioin really dangerous for a NH. I used 5 hornet II but damage 95x15dmgx1,74 dmg multiplx4)seems to be bugged in fitting windows as for BCS. They can eat alone Guristas assaulter or whatever smaller. Unfortunatly is not a good time for drones .....too many ninja salvag. truth is that NH simple don't have the ability to get same dps as Golem and the other high dps ships...... i usually only use the CN scourge missiles on the big BSs and use standards on the rest... if I use CN missiles for whole mission I use 4000-5000 CN missiles and hey thats 3k LP so hey will use same or more LP than mission payout hehe dooh. Yeah try the golem hehe and yes the crazy man here will use Drones with the Golem.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.07.09 11:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Xano Heroma Well actually the NH is just crappy for soloing L4s(dps wise) im going for Golem very soon ! A T2 Cruise Raven (or Golem, for that matter) and a T2 heavies NH complete L4s in almost the same amount of time over many missions - the differences are there, but not groundbreaking. In small-ship heavy missions (like, say, Massive Attack), a NH can actually overtake the Raven in mission completion time. In seriously battleship-heavy missions, the Raven gets much better completion times. The only significant advantage the Golem gets over the NH is the fact you also loot/salvage while you run the mission, and you have enough cargo space to keep most of the non-junk stuff in it. At absolutely maxed-out skills and a 5% missile RoF implant you get, what, 632 DPS out of the Raven/Golem (474 any cruise, 158 thermal drones) but 225m explosion radius on the missiles... with the NH getting up to 533 DPS (434 scourge, 99 thermal drones) with 70m explosion radius. Sure, if you use mission-specific missiles, it's only 446 DPS (347 thunderbolts, 99 thermal drones), but still, same 70m explosion radius. Most battleship NPCs have around a 100-200 DPS tank, so at worst, against EM-vulnerable opponents, the NH finishes them off twice as slow comapred to the Golem/Raven... but most of the time, it's more like just 25-33% slower. _ *The mineral/moonstuff balance \|\| THE* nanofix**
Xano Heroma	Posted - 2008.07.09 11:58:00 - [52] agree and its "those" heavy BS missions I want the Golem for point is too have the right tool for the job !...... and the NH is not the right tool for those missions with mainly big BSs.
Iron Wraith	Posted - 2008.07.09 12:20:00 - [53] Originally by: CuddleMonkey I clean out every single ship (in both gate rooms) and salvage every single wreck (goal is max ISK). No skipping groups. I do try to time it so none of the wrecks disappear (2 hours on wrecks, correct? Even after the mission is complete?) like leandro i use a hurricane too, i can get 1.6km¦ cargo bay in it with t2 expanders and a decent turn of speed. more cargo space if you fill all the lows with expanders. i'm not as organised as leandro with the bm tricks, but if you can bm then you can complete the mission and salvage with an MWD. destroyers are just too small if you want to get the loot as well as the salvage, and a hurricane like mine can salvage and loot most missions without needing to return home for the loot trips. its a good ship to invest in, just need to bring the mission completion time down so u dont need to salvage each stage. i dont know how much SP or isk you have, but that sentry drone domi fit will speed the killing up for you, if you have the skills to kill fast enough before you have to start tanking. also, for a bit of fun you can aim for a blaster kronos, i know everyone will slate it for the travel time to get into gun range but she can kick out some insane dps and will be a nice change from the slow but steady domi. with marauder and large blaster spec to lvl4 and all other skills maxed i get 980dps from the guns with 2 * t2 dmg mods, faction antimatter and a 5% to dmg hardwire, get some faction pimpage on there and things would just get silly . oh and if you do go close range webby drones help you catch the snipers. maybe it isnt the best isk earner but it is great fun. Because sometimes you just have to go back to your roots: [2005.02.20 01:08:03] (combat) Your Civilian Light Electron Blaster perfectly strikes Serpentis Smuggler, wrecking for 20.3 damage
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.07.09 14:47:00 - [54] Quote: hehe perhaps Laughing i just hate using drones and a nighthawk kills frigs faster than the drones can fly to them anyway, so yeah I prefer not using them. In the meantime, until you get your golem, you should be using drones on the frigs while using your missiles on cruisers/BC's/BS's. Killing two birds with one stone FTW.
Xano Heroma	Posted - 2008.07.09 15:20:00 - [55] Originally by: Zo5o Quote: hehe perhaps Laughing i just hate using drones and a nighthawk kills frigs faster than the drones can fly to them anyway, so yeah I prefer not using them. In the meantime, until you get your golem, you should be using drones on the frigs while using your missiles on cruisers/BC's/BS's. Killing two birds with one stone FTW. yes, but i choice not too... if it's okay with you but yes it would save some time offcause.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.07.09 21:26:00 - [56] Originally by: CuddleMonkey I clean out every single ship (in both gate rooms) and salvage every single wreck (goal is max ISK). No skipping groups. I do try to time it so none of the wrecks disappear (2 hours on wrecks, correct? Even after the mission is complete?) You are not maximizing isk by getting every ISK you can from a given mission. This is a misconception a lot of people follow. You maximize isk by getting the most isk per time unit regardless of the activity. If you are getting 20 million isk/hour for completing a worlds collide mission asap, 30 million isk/hour for salvaging the Angel battleship wrecks, 10 million isk/hour for clearing out the nonessential stuff and 5 million isk/hour salvaging the other crap, you actually reduce your income by clearing out the nonessential stuff and salvaging the other crap. You would make way more money just ignoring the nonessential stuff, letting the crap salvage rot and doing the next mission, which might even be a more profitable one than WC which really isn't as good as people make it out. This is again because of the misconception this started with. The volume of isk in WC sure is high, but the isk/time is no better than maybe above average. Unless you get a good commander drop of course, but that has been like two in 50 for me so far... (that is, 50 real commanders, two really good drops, 48 times just faction ammo) Make suicide ganking more difficult!
Karan Kaldarian Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.09 23:55:00 - [57] Edited by: Karan Kaldarian on 09/07/2008 23:56:55 T2 light drones are really fast. They get rid of a good numbers of small and medium rats. In AE I take care only of Bs, drone resolve the remaining ships in quite the same time. Normally I salvage and loot during combat (with afb 399m/s). For what does not enter in NH cargo I do a second trip, but in really few missions, with an Armageddon. Golem The real advantage, for me, is that 40 km range and the better cargo bay: on the contrary you'll be as interesting for ninjas as Magneto is for X-Men. Drone are more and more things to avoid to use, especially with a Golem,Cnr, Rattles (and NH). à.I think IÆll buy a Golem for only salvaging and lootingàà.and/or eventually to use it with torpedos, for sure not in all missions.
Xano Heroma	Posted - 2008.07.10 00:28:00 - [58] Originally by: Karan Kaldarian Golem The real advantage, for me, is that 40 km range and the better cargo bay: on the contrary you'll be as interesting for ninjas as Magneto is for X-Men. Drone are more and more things to avoid to use, especially with a Golem,Cnr, Rattles (and NH). à.I think IÆll buy a Golem for only salvaging and lootingàà.and/or eventually to use it with torpedos, for sure not in all missions. yep the 40km(double speed)tractors and larger cargo are also what make me wanna get a golem.... if it wasn't for this... one might aswel get a CNR instead hehe yep
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.07.10 08:01:00 - [59] Originally by: Karan Kaldarian Drone are more and more things to avoid to use, especially with a Golem,Cnr, Rattles (and NH). Why do you think one should avoid using drone?
Lurana Lay Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.10 08:07:00 - [60] Get a Rattlesnake, your already into Gallente ships so that helps. Rattler rocks, and with style.
Neener	Posted - 2008.07.10 09:35:00 - [61] If you have couple billion to spend on a mission ship, heres a decent choice: Golem with missile velocity and flight time rigs. High: 4x T2 torpedo launchers, 3 tractor beams. Med: 2x cap recharger II, 2x caldari (or dg) invuln fields, T2 boost amp, Gist c-type XL booster, target painter. Low: 3x T2 BCU's, Damage control II Stats (with max skills): - 60 km range and 855 DPS with javelins - 40 km range and 984 DPS with T1 torps. - 1000+ DPS tank for 11+ minutes (permatanks with third cap recharger but i prefer painter) - does every single mission without need to switch hardeners. Warp to mission, own everything, tractor wrecks into nice little pile and go get some ship with 8 salvagers. Repeat. Nice and effective (until someone suic ganks you for that shield booster :))
Karan Kaldarian Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.10 22:23:00 - [62] Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 10/07/2008 08:06:35 Originally by: Karan Kaldarian Drone are more and more things to avoid to use, especially with a Golem,Cnr, Rattles (and NH). Why do you think one should avoid using drones? Because of their great signature radius due to their mwding. This is a huge help to any ninja probing in your space. Rules now are to use drones only when necessary and park them as soon as possible (be aligned.. bla bla bla)....until you wish to be probed down. Probably I'll change Hornets II for EW Drones, just in case.
r0b0to The Aftermath.	Posted - 2008.07.11 10:10:00 - [63] domi, shield tank, 425's/350's, t2 sentries ----------- D:
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.07.11 13:10:00 - [64] Originally by: Karan Kaldarian Because of their great signature radius due to their mwding. This is a huge help to any ninja probing in your space. Rules now are to use drones only when necessary and park them as soon as possible (be aligned.. bla bla bla)....until you wish to be probed down. Probably I'll change Hornets II for EW Drones, just in case. Be aligned? Ah, you mission in low/no sec, I see your point then. But for highsec I'd say drones are a great tool, not to be neglected. If it brings ninja-salvagers, then so be it. Just means I can feel good about slacking in the salvaging department .

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