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Why is raven and missiles popular?

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Therese Law Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.06 11:42:00 - [1] Just a question. Why would i want to change from doing missions with a 800+ DPS Abaddon against sansha/blood, easy tank, enough range for any missions. To Raven 400-500 DPS. What am i missing Why is the raven so popular? -- ♫♪ ♥ ♫♪
Fraggl PPN United Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.07.06 11:48:00 - [2] where im doing missions there are also some against caldari. A friend of mine sucks there, and the missis against sansha im doing also as fast as he, but to mention i¦m flying a Golem :=)
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2008.07.06 11:53:00 - [3] Raven ,CNR and Golem can choose damage type and no tracking problem .You dont need change from abaddon to raven against blood/sansha Originally by: Therese Law What am i missing Why is the raven so popular?
Lykah Storm Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.06 12:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Therese Law Just a question. Why would i want to change from doing missions with a 800+ DPS Abaddon against sansha/blood, easy tank, enough range for any missions. To Raven 400-500 DPS. What am i missing Why is the raven so popular? In short, 1.) Range of DPS is superior compared to others 2.) You can choose the damage type 3.) You don't have to worry about fall offs or optimal ranges 4.) You don't have to worry about tracking disruptors
Viqtoria Caldari Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.07.06 12:55:00 - [5] you can mission level 4s with next to no sp quite well in a raven compared to a turret BS.
Slade Hoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.06 14:15:00 - [6] Originally by: Lykah Storm In short, 1.) Range of DPS is superior compared to others 2.) You can choose the damage type 3.) You don't have to worry about fall offs or optimal ranges 4.) You don't have to worry about tracking disruptors 1.) OP says he has enough range for any mission. Even my standard t2 Apoc has more DPS with pulse laser than a CNR at 100km 2.) OP runs missions in Amarr...9/10 Missions are against Sansha/Blood (I run missions there too). So EM/Thermal Damage is best you can have...no need to choose Kinetic/Explosive. 3.) Optimal range is sufficient. falloff is irrelevant for an Abaddon. Range isn't an issue 4.) getting jammed by guristas or tracking disrupted by sanshas is about the same effect. you are crippled for xy seconds in terms of DPS. + Abaddon isn't affected by defender missiles both, cruise missiles and pulse lasers have some minor tracking problems. at cruisers, missiles do lets say 60% damage. turrets hit 6/10 shots on them. same result. and you can do this with t2 gear only...no need for billions of isk for permatank...t2 tanks it all ;-) @ Therese: I don't get it too why Raven is so popular....perhaps most people are caldari and fly raven anyway. If majority says "its the best", then it is the best A good argument is, that you can do missions for all factions at an equal speed rather then to be stuck in Amarr cause of Blood/Sansha. I'd stick to your Abaddon or try the navy apoc/paladin for additional goodies.
Kate Libby Caldari Cybergate Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.06 14:38:00 - [7] u just need a hell lot less skills to fly a raven good enough for level 4 missions, compared to the skills u need to fly a gun BS. also realise well that even though the amarr ships are good vs blood/sansha they not as good in other regions but your question was why would u change? well not lol ;) unless u wanna rat/mission run in a different region ofc ^^ ---------------- Love and Kisses.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.07.06 15:05:00 - [8] 1. Missiles need less SP 2. Most players have only about 7 months worth of SP and start as Caldari 3. Missiles need less thought 4. Most people are... intellectually challenged by even simple equations, or don't want to put up with that stuff in a game (even if for me the maths is great fun) 5. Missiles need less effort, you can even AFK with them. 6. Most people are lazy 7. Missiles work equally well against all NPCs 8. Most people mission for Caldari which send you against a wider variety of NPCs. 9. Most people think that what most people do cannot be wrong. Suffice to say that if you run for Amarr in an Abaddon you are simply doing better than the masses, so just keep doing it and ignore the cruise raven cattle. Make suicide ganking more difficult!
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.07.06 16:34:00 - [9] Originally by: Slade Hoo Originally by: Lykah Storm In short, 1.) Range of DPS is superior compared to others 2.) You can choose the damage type 3.) You don't have to worry about fall offs or optimal ranges 4.) You don't have to worry about tracking disruptors 1.) OP says he has enough range for any mission. Even my standard t2 Apoc has more DPS with pulse laser than a CNR at 100km 2.) OP runs missions in Amarr...9/10 Missions are against Sansha/Blood (I run missions there too). So EM/Thermal Damage is best you can have...no need to choose Kinetic/Explosive. 3.) Optimal range is sufficient. falloff is irrelevant for an Abaddon. Range isn't an issue 4.) getting jammed by guristas or tracking disrupted by sanshas is about the same effect. you are crippled for xy seconds in terms of DPS. + Abaddon isn't affected by defender missiles both, cruise missiles and pulse lasers have some minor tracking problems. at cruisers, missiles do lets say 60% damage. turrets hit 6/10 shots on them. same result. and you can do this with t2 gear only...no need for billions of isk for permatank...t2 tanks it all ;-) @ Therese: I don't get it too why Raven is so popular....perhaps most people are caldari and fly raven anyway. If majority says "its the best", then it is the best A good argument is, that you can do missions for all factions at an equal speed rather then to be stuck in Amarr cause of Blood/Sansha. I'd stick to your Abaddon or try the navy apoc/paladin for additional goodies. I still remember the last time my missile launchers were tracking disrupted, it was terrible :'( I still have nightmares.
Therese Law Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.06 16:57:00 - [10] Edited by: Therese Law on 06/07/2008 16:57:21 Originally by: Slade Hoo 1.) OP says he has enough range for any mission. Even my standard t2 Apoc has more DPS with pulse laser than a CNR at 100km 2.) OP runs missions in Amarr...9/10 Missions are against Sansha/Blood (I run missions there too). So EM/Thermal Damage is best you can have...no need to choose Kinetic/Explosive. 3.) Optimal range is sufficient. falloff is irrelevant for an Abaddon. Range isn't an issue 4.) getting jammed by guristas or tracking disrupted by sanshas is about the same effect. you are crippled for xy seconds in terms of DPS. + Abaddon isn't affected by defender missiles both, cruise missiles and pulse lasers have some minor tracking problems. at cruisers, missiles do lets say 60% damage. turrets hit 6/10 shots on them. same result. and you can do this with t2 gear only...no need for billions of isk for permatank...t2 tanks it all ;-) @ Therese: I don't get it too why Raven is so popular....perhaps most people are caldari and fly raven anyway. If majority says "its the best", then it is the best A good argument is, that you can do missions for all factions at an equal speed rather then to be stuck in Amarr cause of Blood/Sansha. I'd stick to your Abaddon or try the navy apoc/paladin for additional goodies. What can i say Slade Hoo Best answer so far. So there seems to be one, and only ONE advantage of flying caldari and using missiles with a raven. It needs less skilltraining time to be efficent compared to training to fly a gun boat. Other than that, if you use lasers and fight against therm/em (blood/sansha) faction, there is NO advantage to use a raven instead of an abaddon. -- ♫♪ ♥ ♫♪
Thenoran Caldari Border Rim Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.06 18:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Hanneshannes I still remember the last time my missile launchers were tracking disrupted, it was terrible :'( I still have nightmares. WTB Missile Tracking Disruptor ------------------------ Ore Depletion Calculator It's life Jim, but not as we know it
Aga66	Posted - 2008.07.06 21:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Thenoran Originally by: Hanneshannes I still remember the last time my missile launchers were tracking disrupted, it was terrible :'( I still have nightmares. WTB Missile Tracking Disruptor Its called ECM. Drones > all :)
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.07 02:09:00 - [13] Originally by: Therese Law Edited by: Therese Law on 06/07/2008 16:57:21 Originally by: Slade Hoo 1.) OP says he has enough range for any mission. Even my standard t2 Apoc has more DPS with pulse laser than a CNR at 100km 2.) OP runs missions in Amarr...9/10 Missions are against Sansha/Blood (I run missions there too). So EM/Thermal Damage is best you can have...no need to choose Kinetic/Explosive. 3.) Optimal range is sufficient. falloff is irrelevant for an Abaddon. Range isn't an issue 4.) getting jammed by guristas or tracking disrupted by sanshas is about the same effect. you are crippled for xy seconds in terms of DPS. + Abaddon isn't affected by defender missiles both, cruise missiles and pulse lasers have some minor tracking problems. at cruisers, missiles do lets say 60% damage. turrets hit 6/10 shots on them. same result. and you can do this with t2 gear only...no need for billions of isk for permatank...t2 tanks it all ;-) @ Therese: I don't get it too why Raven is so popular....perhaps most people are caldari and fly raven anyway. If majority says "its the best", then it is the best A good argument is, that you can do missions for all factions at an equal speed rather then to be stuck in Amarr cause of Blood/Sansha. I'd stick to your Abaddon or try the navy apoc/paladin for additional goodies. What can i say Slade Hoo Best answer so far. So there seems to be one, and only ONE advantage of flying caldari and using missiles with a raven. It needs less skilltraining time to be efficent compared to training to fly a gun boat. Other than that, if you use lasers and fight against therm/em (blood/sansha) faction, there is NO advantage to use a raven instead of an abaddon. It's been said a thousand times in the thread already, but I guess I'll try out parroting. I personally find Abaddon something of a poor choice. I'd personally rank the geddon highest, followed by the Paladin, Apoc and Abaddon. Then again I have no clue how you manage to set it up with 800+ dps and a an optimal that renders falloff pointless and never is an issue. Point is unless your optimal is at the very least 60km you will run into several situations where your dps is lowered due to range. The Apoc for example does this, but will have serious issues keeping 800 dps meanwhile. The nightmare would most likely be better than the other four, but nothing I've tried extensively for missions. The thing with the Raven is it's so terribly easy to fly. It takes a month of skilltraining(Basically you can do all level 4's the day after trial), and at a pace averaging the same as most other battleships after months of training. The CNR is just a Raven with an extra 15% of dps. The Golem however, will somewhat quickly hit 1k dps, still be able to select it's damagetypes and have a massive tank. Same cluster of ships, a nightmare or well flown amarr BS can still outperform it for Amarr missions, but the missile ships normally make up for it in that last 10% of missions even here. My personal experience of course, subjective as it obviously is. Your figures for Raven dps is very low btw. And please, do show me how your Pulse Apoc beats just about any CNR at 100km for dps. =) Parrots, commence! Postcount: 71400
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.07.07 05:15:00 - [14] A good point to bring up though is the uber Raven mission skills are pretty worthless for pvp. The same amount of SPs in amarr and you have the best PvP ships in the game. I made my alt into a isk machine and happy with him. If its peoples main though I think they'd be happier with training up one of the turret based BSs.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.07.07 05:57:00 - [15] Originally by: NoNah Your figures for Raven dps is very low btw. 400-500dps is generous, in fact very generous, for a poorly skilled pilot. You know... the ones that you say can do mission so well in a Raven. It takes very good drone skills and T2 launchers at the least to push a Raven's DPS up to 'respectable' levels. Fact is, without torps the Raven and it's variants do **** poor damage. They make up for this somewhat by being able to load any damage type but the NPCs make up for this as well by shooting down a significant portion of incoming missiles. The reason everyone loves Ravens is because they are versatile in that they do just as good against anything you might be up against. There's really no "omg I don't want to do fight these" faction that they will have a tough time on. Actually, the Domi is the same way and in some ways better... and has the option of literally AFK missioning. There's just more Caldari out there so Raven is flavor of the decade. As the OP so kindly demonstrated, other ships are generally better at going up against specific factions. Angels might be the only exception since the best explosive turret ammo isn't all that great and Ravens tank explosive quite well. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Patient 053537	Posted - 2008.07.07 07:46:00 - [16] A viable 800-900 DPS Abbadon is what, scorch being fired out of mega pulse? A cruise raven out ranges you by quite a bit, has no tracking issues and change damage type (and cheaper costs since you aren't burning scorch L crystals). Quit playing EFT online. In order to realistically get an Abbadon to run that well, you are looking at MUCH more SP than a cruise raven ever requires. The amount of gunnery SP alone for the WTFBBQ DPS numbers is more than you'd need to fly the Raven decently. The average player age is around 6-8 months, so thats slightly out of reach for them. With Caldari, your ships are really good at the beginning, but improve less as you skill up. The other races are more gimped in the beginning, but start to shine in the end game. This game is all about tradeoffs. Gimped start for a stronger end game, or a strong start with a meh end game. Your choice. Rawr Rawr
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.07 08:37:00 - [17] because a 3 month old character can have 5.0 sec status and 8+ standings with a cnr 7x caldari navy cruise, drone link augmenter or tractor beam (or tech 2 launchers, hardly takes much time to train up to) 2x pithi c-type small shield boosters, 4x hardeners (t1, faction, t2, whatever works) 4x caldari navy ballistc control units, 1x cap flux coil 3x cap control circuts and profit, perfect for an isk farmer, and used by quite a few.
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.07 10:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: NoNah Your figures for Raven dps is very low btw. 400-500dps is generous, in fact very generous, for a poorly skilled pilot. You know... the ones that you say can do mission so well in a Raven. It takes very good drone skills and T2 launchers at the least to push a Raven's DPS up to 'respectable' levels. Fact is, without torps the Raven and it's variants do **** poor damage. They make up for this somewhat by being able to load any damage type but the NPCs make up for this as well by shooting down a significant portion of incoming missiles. The reason everyone loves Ravens is because they are versatile in that they do just as good against anything you might be up against. There's really no "omg I don't want to do fight these" faction that they will have a tough time on. Actually, the Domi is the same way and in some ways better... and has the option of literally AFK missioning. There's just more Caldari out there so Raven is flavor of the decade. As the OP so kindly demonstrated, other ships are generally better at going up against specific factions. Angels might be the only exception since the best explosive turret ammo isn't all that great and Ravens tank explosive quite well. Point is, the Raven is more SP efficient, it will beat your average gunboat at 2m SP, it will beat it at 10m SP. Yes, more specialized builds can pass it at special missions, but that's about it. Indeed, Domi can run missions afk or have the option to salvage while running the mission but instead it gets no more than 3-400 dps thanks to traveltimes. If however we still compare missions where the player is active you'll see that the caldari vessels are generally faster than most of the specialized boats - bar Amarr in Sansha/blood at equal skillpoint levels. And for some odd reason you keep comparing the Pulselasers with cruisemissiles. Torps are by no means dead for mission. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 750103
Lightforge	Posted - 2008.07.07 12:47:00 - [19] Well if you can get an efficient torp fit on a standard raven or CNR (and yes you can its just more skill intensive and needs implants, gear, minmaxing) you can fling 800-1k dps out at 70k (before drones). though most people use them because they are easier to complete missions with. you just arnt doing it fast with your 300-400 dps (before Defenders eat your DPS our from under you). but yes if youve got the skills for it a gunboat or a proper sentry domi (domi pilots trying mission with ogres/berserkers past 30k are idiots) will demolish mission WAY faster than any cruise fit CNR (not counting officer launchers and dmg mods)
Viqtoria Caldari Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton because a 3 month old character can have 5.0 sec status and 8+ standings with a cnr 7x caldari navy cruise, drone link augmenter or tractor beam (or tech 2 launchers, hardly takes much time to train up to) 2x pithi c-type small shield boosters, 4x hardeners (t1, faction, t2, whatever works) 4x caldari navy ballistc control units, 1x cap flux coil 3x cap control circuts and profit, perfect for an isk farmer, and used by quite a few. OMG those 2 small shield booster things really do work well! I thought someone was joking when they suggested this to me...
Poision Kevin Amarr Cult of Death	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:30:00 - [21] i shall give you guys the best tip ever if you wanna do missions in amarr... for all missions that is weak against EM/TERMENAL use a abaddon and then here is the tip: get 1 abaddon and 1 raven couse if and when you get angel extravaganza then the raven is the best option i'm looking for players that want a good corp! Ceo of the Poision Fleet
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:44:00 - [22] Dominix tanks mission. Warden2 guards CNR. Profit. Really fast.
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2008.07.07 22:11:00 - [23] You're against Sansha's and Bloods. Amarr ships actually shine there. Take it to another NPC, and all of a sudden the Raven gets a lot better.
Bladen Kerst Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.08 05:09:00 - [24] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton 2x pithi c-type small shield boosters, 4x hardeners (t1, faction, t2, whatever works) Best tip I have read in ages! I am so disappointed that I didn't figure this out on my own though. Simply golden idea. Going to try on torp CNR.
Weeka Amarr Tetragrammaton	Posted - 2008.07.08 05:30:00 - [25] Edited by: Weeka on 08/07/2008 05:31:02 Originally by: Slade Hoo 1.) OP says he has enough range for any mission. Even my standard t2 Apoc has more DPS with pulse laser than a CNR at 100km Still rats tracking disrupting or jamming you nullify that "enough range" .. everything thats nagging at your time is bad for missioneers. Originally by: Slade Hoo 2.) OP runs missions in Amarr...9/10 Missions are against Sansha/Blood (I run missions there too). So EM/Thermal Damage is best you can have...no need to choose Kinetic/Explosive. I run missions there too, and I daresay its more like 5/10, getting also angels/mercenaries/drone and the ever so often gurista missions into account. Originally by: Slade Hoo 3.) Optimal range is sufficient. falloff is irrelevant for an Abaddon. Range isn't an issue As a matter of fact it is, not on paper, granted, but my Abaddon getting tracking disrupted or jammed is a constant hassle in many missions in amarr space, since it's just the type of warfare the amarr rats deploy against you. Originally by: Slade Hoo 4.) getting jammed by guristas or tracking disrupted by sanshas is about the same effect. you are crippled for xy seconds in terms of DPS. Not exactly, since for missile launchers there are FOF missiles, for turrets not. Originally by: Slade Hoo @ Therese: I don't get it too why Raven is so popular....perhaps most people are caldari and fly raven anyway. Because you don't need a lot of SP to do lvl 4 missions in a raven, any by the time you have a lot of SP you may very well happen to have exactly the skills for a raven pretty high.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.08 22:03:00 - [26] Edited by: Andrue on 08/07/2008 22:04:06 Originally by: Therese Law Just a question. Why would i want to change from doing missions with a 800+ DPS Abaddon against sansha/blood, easy tank, enough range for any missions. Less effort, basically. My Nighthawk does as much damage from 75km as it does from 1m. If I can get a lock on something I can open fire and know I will do as much damage as my weapons are capable of. I don't even have to worry much about target radius. Thanks to the NH bonuses I can seriously screw over any ship from frigate to BS no matter how close it gets to me. I started off with beam weapons but got sick of playing the crystal swap game. I also got sick of having to reposition my ship to get into range. Chasing rats down is soooo boring. My alt can use hybrids and I soon get heartily sick of reloading ammo every half a minute..unless I want to do naff damage :-/ It's true that you sacrifice some damage output for the convenience but I only have to jump in my alt's Sleipnir or my godawful Abso to experience the other side of the coin. The Sleip kicks like a mule on angel dust but you have to pay attention to get the best out of it. Great fun but hard work. My Nighthawk is no more work than mining. Less in fact since there's no need to keep dragging crap out of my hold and I have indicators to tell me when a rat is going to pop. So..I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with the alternatives - but the answer to your question is simply convenience and laziness -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.09 08:47:00 - [27] Another point worth mentioning is that because the Raven is a shield tanker, you can pile on the damage mods without sacrifying your tank much if at all. Also, the shield skills needed for a Raven also end up being useful for a Drake, just about the ultimate AFK missioner (if a bit slow) because of its astounding passive tank capability. Drake is actually better in some level 4 missions than any BS (those ones with hordes of cruisers and frigates). ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Allandra Stardream	Posted - 2008.07.09 11:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Viqtoria you can mission level 4s with next to no sp quite well in a raven compared to a turret BS. and how, my alt out damages my Dominix with half the skills.

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