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Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core
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Posted - 2008.08.16 10:34:00 -
[91]
nano gangs will die soon tough read the dev blogs ;) www.garia.net |
Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.16 15:38:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Garia666 nano gangs will die soon tough read the dev blogs ;)
The one where they nerfed speed or the one where they moved all changes to multiplicity for reworking?
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FireFoxx80
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.08.17 11:07:00 -
[93]
BlackOps shouldn't be a solo pwn-mobile.
I am all for boosting black-ops fuel-efficiency, jump range, and jump mechanics (cyno into jammed systems); but not their offensive/defensive capability. In my mind, the Black-Ops class is along the Logistics theme, hence why it can jump other ships in - let the force recons and stealth bombers do all the fighting.
Re: Deep Space Transports = solo transport-mobile (35k of cargo). Could the jump harmonics flag be introduced here? Make the DST's useful to bring along, but still require more fuel than other ships of the same mass. (increased cargohold offset by increased fuel usage).
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Uncle McScrooge
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Posted - 2008.08.18 19:53:00 -
[94]
About cargo - a cargo-maximized pilgrim (not that that ship can be used for much else nowadays) with 5 t2 expanded cargoholds and 2 t1 cargo rigs reaches 1400 m¦. While that isn't that terribly much (less than a spped optimized blockade runner and *far* less than a cargo optimized deep space) it is still plenty for fuel and possible loot. Unless you plan to steal a full POS base.
The problem I see with a deep space transports is that it can be used to carry a whole POS base with it and I am not sure if CCP wants the main use for black ops ships to establish surprise bases. Because thats what likely will happen if they can carry large amounts of equipment into hostile territory. |
Siigari Kitawa
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.08.22 23:47:00 -
[95]
I just got a Black Ops (Sin) and have been enjoying cloaking outside of stations just next to the undock point. When a target undocks I decloak, lock with 2 sensor boosters and blow him up, loot, dock and reset.
The Sin makes a great solo ship, and is pretty entertaining. Also you guys seem to be forgetting that you can reach a larger jump range with skills (By default you start with a 4.0 LY jump range) so 2.0 LY is acceptable. A 2.5 LY start would be great though of course.
As for fuel, I am not sure as to how jumping other ships through a jump bridge works so I can't make a statement on that. Anyone care to explain?
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Crimsonjade
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.23 01:35:00 -
[96]
The BO's were made to be a pvp ship/ pls for the love of all that is holy just make them into a pirate dream ship. whats the worst that can happen? they dont have the dps to stand up to a normal fleet, so they pretty much are a niche ship. unfortunatly CCP decided that people using them to jump 25 ly to go gang **** miners was a bad idea so we are now stuck with gate camp running ships.
you want to bring back the pvp into eve. These ships need to be put into combat and not have to bring a freighter along to do it( fuel wise)
"Noah (CCP) indicated that CCP was aware that battleships with jumpdrives would become the ultimate ship, and to this end Black Ops ships were pre-nerfed."
as they are now they are the Ultimate joke. they need 1. bonus set on skills to jump range. no more than 4-5 systems, but make them consume less fuel 2.t2 ship needs t2 resist. 3. cloak while warping
im a little onesided in my veiws as i want them for jumping past the dual mom camped system and make a beeline for where my target is mining, fleets dont need these and probaly wouldnt make great use of them unless they could go past a cyno jammer
but im sure a few pirates could come up with a few ideas about using them
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Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2008.08.23 21:37:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Bane Glorious To expand on this part: with the loot recollection issue, I recommended that Deep Space Transports (e.g. Impel, Mastodon, etc.) be able to use the covert jump bridge specifically, and not Blockade Runners.
Absolutely!
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Javelin6
Minmatar Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2008.08.23 22:19:00 -
[98]
Originally by: TZeer
A must: Seperate fuelbay Jump to covert cynos in cynojammed systems Longer jumprange Fix that scan res!!!
Nice to get: Slightly better resists or some more HP...
Do the above so, we can effectively do the below :
Originally by: Hitachi Morimoto We need to be able to activate the covert cynos and covert jump bridges in a system with a Cyno Jammer. Leave the jump harmonics as they are: only covert ops, recon/force recon, stealth b, and black ops can use them, and boom. 20 stealth bombers with bombs take out the cyno jammer, the force recon activates a regular cyno field, and the rest of the fleet warps in with a titan.
Now they will have purpose.
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Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.24 19:52:00 -
[99]
1. Give black ops bs cov op cloaks.
They can warp cloaked, but they actually lose speed. Whoopie (nano nerf will **** the panther anyway).
2. Give them crazy optimal range, but don't make them do much more damage than a t2 sniper.
This would be ideal for 0.0. Make it so they could safely engage from 200km+ (sentry drone sin, sniper panther/redeemer, and give the widow an even further jam range or possibly give it rohk bonuses instead of raven-like bonuses) giving them extra safety to mess with targets far away, but means little to nothing for pirates because lol npc stations.
This might actually make them useful for small black ops gangs. They bring something those gangs usually need (dps) and can engage from far away giving them a nice buffer to get away. They're also easier to move, especially in hostile areas where these are meant to be useful.
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EYEDOLL
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.08.25 15:05:00 -
[100]
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Silence iKillYouu
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.08.28 06:55:00 -
[101]
/signed.
Black Ops should become a lot more popular, as they could be such great fun factors, and are very underused and underestimated atm.
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Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.08.28 16:46:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Yorda 1. Give black ops bs cov op cloaks.
They can warp cloaked, but they actually lose speed. Whoopie (nano nerf will **** the panther anyway).
2. Give them crazy optimal range, but don't make them do much more damage than a t2 sniper.
This would be ideal for 0.0. Make it so they could safely engage from 200km+ (sentry drone sin, sniper panther/redeemer, and give the widow an even further jam range or possibly give it rohk bonuses instead of raven-like bonuses) giving them extra safety to mess with targets far away, but means little to nothing for pirates because lol npc stations.
This might actually make them useful for small black ops gangs. They bring something those gangs usually need (dps) and can engage from far away giving them a nice buffer to get away. They're also easier to move, especially in hostile areas where these are meant to be useful.
Agreeing 100% point for point. BO BS are expensive as hell, especially for roaming gangs. They need optimal far more than they need dps, especially since they can't warp cloaked.
From day 1 of thinking on the T2 Scorp I wanted it to be rails & ECM at range. It would even provide a thought-provoking tradeoff - BOTH would require noticeable cap. You can indefinitely sustain one, or the other, but not both unless you fit for it (Lose a mid with a cap booster, lose an ecm str mod with a damage mod, etc.). Give it 5 turrets.
The Redeemer should have just 7.5% optimal, and because of its 6 turrets it won't be dealing amazing dps, but it can fit more mods for it than the Widow making it more useful AND with pulse & scorch can get some good ranges with a fairly nice passive tank.
For the Panther I'm clueless, falloff is shit and unless you turn it into a Muninn knockoff (lol) it won't accomplish much after the nano nerf. I might go as far as to say give it the missile bonuses because large projectiles are just crap, but...yeah. I want to say move a mid to a low but I have little experience toying with the Panther's setups.
Replace the Sin's agility bonus (seriously what?) with a drone range bonus a la ishtar. However, leave the Sin with the shortest targeting range, so you either fit to use heavies at range with a slight tank or you fit to use sentries at longer range with less tank. I want to say move a mid to a low again but I have equally little experience with the Sin's setups.
And if you're going to leave them with 20% less base HP, give them better T2 resists for the love of god. Preferably in line with or better than the Marauders, but probably less than the cloaky recons. 40%/20% sounds good to me.
Also, spare room in drone bays!
Also also, Increase the fittings! Don't need more slots, just more fittings to actually use them (Not including Widow, which has plenty of fittings for ecm+whatever)
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.08.28 20:31:00 -
[103]
So less black-ops and more hauling-ops really.
It's got to be one thing or another, try to make it all things to all people and it'll end up either overpowered or uselessly broken stat-wise. Instead you could either:
Make it an Escort ship by removing the cloak bonuses, giving DST's access to the bridges, a fuel bay, increased jump range, and either a small fighter bay or logistics ship level remote reps but a maximum of only two targets.
Make it a Black-Ops ship by giving them all EW bonuses, covert ops cloaks, low DPS, the covert only jump bridge, a fuel bay, and increased jump range.
Make it a Rapid-Response ship, boost the DPS to standard BS levels, drop the cloak, give HAC's and deny Recons access to the bridges, add a fuel bay and increase the jump range.
- Their survivability will never be as high as a capital ship.
- Their flexibility will never be as high as a carrier ship.
- Their cost efficiency will never be as high as a t1 BS.
- Therefore they have to have "something" extra
A mini-carrier with cargo-logistics is unique and valuable on and off the battle-field.
A BS cov-ops is to Recons as the Marauder is to HAC's
A rapid-response ship is a poor excuse for a hot-dropping or fleet carrier but allows you to get support ships in fast when and where they are needed.
The theme is that t2 is the step up from t1 in either combat features or functionality, t3, 4 and 5 should probably be equal to but different to t2 providing greater variety for veterans. Therefore I see very little wrong with making t2 BS superior to t1 so long as it stops there and does not continue on up to t5. If this were the issue some make it out to be we'd see ECCM fitted overheating Marauders in fleets all over the place. If we ever do then the problem is more likely to be the economy than the ships.
What we don't need is a ship class that is pulled out for jumping haulers around and then shelved again. If that's what we really want then we need haulers with jump-drives.
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evilphoenix
3vil Industries Efferus Vehemens Inasnum Latrocinium
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:54:00 -
[104]
Cov Ops Cloak? --------
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Vigaz
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Posted - 2008.09.02 16:34:00 -
[105]
Originally by: evilphoenix Cov Ops Cloak?
cov ops cloak for a Black OP? no it will be a solopwnmobile (most common whine)
Facts: BO is one of the most expensive sub capital ship in game (Marauder and same faction BS can compete in price but in general they are cheaper). BO requires more skill points then any sub capital ship in game. BO has less DPS than Tier 1 BS. BO has less tank than Tier 1 BS. BO is the most isk sink if get popped (insurance payout). BO has very limited cargobay (speaking about fuel and portal generator). Covercyno needs cynosural field theory @ lvl5 (rank 5 and no other benefit for this skill, not many ppl train this skill up to lvl5) Covertcyno doesn't work into a cynojammed system.
BO CANT FIT A COVERTOP CLOAK.
Why I should undock with my Widow?I cant compete with a tier 1 BS fitted for PvP. I can use a scorpion or a raven with t1 cloak to achieve better results in PvP with 1/10 ISK.
I dunno why CCP is so scared to un-nerf this ship, what kind of problem they see?
PS: dude you face! IÆm proud of my missing texture.
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cianide pro
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Posted - 2008.09.03 06:31:00 -
[106]
You cant compare marauders with black ops, as the first is a pure npc ship and the second a pure pvp ( or it should be )
What i would like to hear is a post from ccp or any other official answer on what changes we going to get and when, as I hoped that at least some changes would be applied on this patch.
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Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core
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Posted - 2008.09.03 16:08:00 -
[107]
I use my redeemer to safly jump shit from hi sec to low sec. the redeemer with all low expanded cargo`s II has more then 3k m3 cargo space.. ^^
atleast its saving me isk instead of costing..
www.garia.net |
venus divine
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Posted - 2008.09.03 16:39:00 -
[108]
i support this one!
Give black ops a decent role..
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Caztra Tor
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Posted - 2008.09.19 00:05:00 -
[109]
I don't see where there is anything in the patch notes, in testing, in development, or on the drawingboard for Black Ops. Amazing. But they will address it Soon (tm).
Slow as smoke offa cold shit!
/signed as far as previous suggestions.
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cianide pro
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Posted - 2008.09.19 14:07:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Caztra Tor I don't see where there is anything in the patch notes, in testing, in development, or on the drawingboard for Black Ops. Amazing. But they will address it Soon (tm).
Slow as smoke offa cold shit!
/signed as far as previous suggestions.
slow? slow you say? It aint moving, its frozen solid.
Guess that is the problem to be based on Iceland :(
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Vina
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.19 21:07:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Vina on 19/09/2008 21:11:51 you know honestly, the only thing black ops REALLY NEED is to be able to fit a covert ops cloak. that would be a huge boost just in and of itself. T2 resists would be nice but aren't needed. We really do need a fuel bay too, their cargo bay size limits them to about 4-5 jumps before refueling and maybe 3-4 jump bridges as well, and that only leaves you with enough space for about a day or 2 of pvp ammo. (I have about 3500 various missiles, enough fuel for 5 jumps, and 3 jump portals.)
Aside from that they are pretty good ships, stat wise.
my skills
my config
also making covert jump portals/cynos work in cyno-jammed systems SOUNDS like a good idea, but... it's kind of pointless really. since you need to get a covert op in the system in the first place to make the covert cyno, what's the point besides making a warp to spot for your fleet? which you an already do now anyway. I see no REAL point in this. Honestly I don't really see any point in covert jump portals except if you had an entire gang of only coverts/force recons. maybe if they added the ew frigies to this too it would be alright. or maybe just all frigates and force recons and logistics. I dunno, but something needs to be done about covert jump portals to make them actually useful. -----------------------------------
my opinion is my own. |
Captator
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.09.20 10:24:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Vina Edited by: Vina on 19/09/2008 21:11:51 you know honestly, the only thing black ops REALLY NEED is to be able to fit a covert ops cloak. that would be a huge boost just in and of itself. T2 resists would be nice but aren't needed. We really do need a fuel bay too, their cargo bay size limits them to about 4-5 jumps before refueling and maybe 3-4 jump bridges as well, and that only leaves you with enough space for about a day or 2 of pvp ammo. (I have about 3500 various missiles, enough fuel for 5 jumps, and 3 jump portals.)
Agreed, though if they were given larger cargo bay/larger drone bay instead of seperate fuel bay I think it would be more interesting forcing a degree of compromise on fuel/ammo/cap boosters (ie, more uninjected setups that are only good in combat for a minute or so before they have to bug out and recharge, due to having more fuel/ammo instead) - These ships are (supposedly given espionage role description?) meant to stay behind enemy lines for a while, so they need space for spare ammo/spare drones/fuel, the covops cloak is needed because burning fuel to get about as the only way to remain off scanner till engagement is ridiculous.
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Hottie McGee
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.22 02:23:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Hottie McGee on 22/09/2008 02:23:13
Originally by: Vina Edited by: Vina on 19/09/2008 21:11:51 also making covert jump portals/cynos work in cyno-jammed systems SOUNDS like a good idea, but... it's kind of pointless really. since you need to get a covert op in the system in the first place to make the covert cyno, what's the point besides making a warp to spot for your fleet? which you an already do now anyway. I see no REAL point in this. Honestly I don't really see any point in covert jump portals except if you had an entire gang of only coverts/force recons. maybe if they added the ew frigies to this too it would be alright. or maybe just all frigates and force recons and logistics. I dunno, but something needs to be done about covert jump portals to make them actually useful.
the fact that people are roaming around systems apart from a fleet makes this really nice. jumping between systems and sneaking around being unreported is pretty nice. think covert for this. it's not to move fleets or anything, but to move small groups of ships around undetected. it's not just for getting around gatecamps.
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Xanja
2H Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.22 22:05:00 -
[114]
Cov Ops cloak ----------------- |
Reptar Dragon
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.09.23 00:17:00 -
[115]
Everyone thinks that Black Ops ships are fixed by a further jump capability or a fuel bay.
DOES NO ONE REALIZE that they are only cloakable, cyno-capable versions of their t2 variants? It's completely stupid to buy one of these ships unless you're just going to haul meaningless crap through low-sec/0.0.
Look at the Sin, is anyone actually going to use a 600mil ship with a shit tank and bad DPS as a bloody dominix with a nicer skin? Why doesn't it have a dampener or warp disruptor-related bonus like the arazu?
The Widow, damn that ship can JAM, but you're buying a ship that does the same damn job as a falcon and can't even warp cloaked. None in their right minds would actually try and fight with a widow. You can 8-slot tank a scorpion and use it to jam a lot easier, with insurance guarantee. PLUS YOU CAN JUMP BRIDGE FALCONS IN TO DO THE SAME JOB BETTER.
The Redeemer, energy turret tracking?! You've gotta be kidding me. Give it a neutralizer and nos range bonus on top of it's tracking bonus.
The panther. lmao lets buy a 600mil ship that is just a ******ed typhoon that goes 25% faster with max skills.
I thought CSMs were supposed to LISTEN to community suggestions? Having cyno-capable deep space transports adds an awesome dimension to the game, but it in NO WAY fixes black ops ships. These ships are less logical combat ships than even marauders, because at least those POS ships do massive amounts of DPS.
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Aggrod
Circle of Flames
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Posted - 2008.09.23 00:22:00 -
[116]
Have read the first page, don't have time to read the other 3.
Still, here is my idea, sorry if its been mentioned:-
New Ship Class - Tanker.
Ship would be same hull type as DST, but less slots. It would be modified to be able to jump along with the Jump Bridge, and would have a large Fuel bay. It should be unable to jett' fuel from its cargo, but should be able to "link" with a black ops, and by doing so fueling all jumps through that ships bridge, via its own fuel bay.
Hit points should be similar to a DST, but less PG/CPU and less slots.
The reason I don't think they should be able to Jett' cans is to avoid them bringing a lot of these ships to haul ammo/POS mods into enemy space. It should be able to cloak, but not have any bonus to it. Its cloaking ability should be just like a normal DST. ---------- I devise my own demise Here's to life-the life I'm losing |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.09.23 09:20:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Reptar Dragon Everyone thinks that Black Ops ships are fixed by a further jump capability or a fuel bay.
DOES NO ONE REALIZE that they are only cloakable, cyno-capable versions of their t2 variants? It's completely stupid to buy one of these ships unless you're just going to haul meaningless crap through low-sec/0.0.
Look at the Sin, is anyone actually going to use a 600mil ship with a shit tank and bad DPS as a bloody dominix with a nicer skin? Why doesn't it have a dampener or warp disruptor-related bonus like the arazu?
The Widow, damn that ship can JAM, but you're buying a ship that does the same damn job as a falcon and can't even warp cloaked. None in their right minds would actually try and fight with a widow. You can 8-slot tank a scorpion and use it to jam a lot easier, with insurance guarantee. PLUS YOU CAN JUMP BRIDGE FALCONS IN TO DO THE SAME JOB BETTER.
The Redeemer, energy turret tracking?! You've gotta be kidding me. Give it a neutralizer and nos range bonus on top of it's tracking bonus.
The panther. lmao lets buy a 600mil ship that is just a ******ed typhoon that goes 25% faster with max skills.
I thought CSMs were supposed to LISTEN to community suggestions? Having cyno-capable deep space transports adds an awesome dimension to the game, but it in NO WAY fixes black ops ships. These ships are less logical combat ships than even marauders, because at least those POS ships do massive amounts of DPS.
get this into your head: these are not frontline ships ... their DPS and tank is second to their logistic abilities ... otherqise you would create an overpowered cloaking ship that can jump long ranges ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Mr Laden
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Posted - 2008.09.23 09:35:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Mr Laden on 23/09/2008 09:35:32 Edited by: Mr Laden on 23/09/2008 09:35:23 Edited by: Mr Laden on 23/09/2008 09:35:06
signed
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ArmyOfMe
Pernicious Creed Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.09.23 11:36:00 -
[119]
ill support any and all buffs to black ops. simply speaking they cant get any worse then what they are atm
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Sinistro
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Posted - 2008.09.24 05:16:00 -
[120]
Here we have a multi page tread like many other black op treads in different locations on this forum on how they bad and need to be boosted.
But the real question is........HOW COME IT TAKES SOOO LONG TO ALTER A SHIP CLASS BONUS/ROLE AFTER ITS HAS BEEN RELEASED PRE NERFED?????????
As soon a pre nerfed ship class comes in game and within weeks, months maybe even the reactions are that they, let simply say, suck then this should be changed ASAP.
Now we are way past those weeks, months and we dont even have any idea other then ccp is looking into it.
WHEN is what we want to hear and WHAT is the boost they will get is what we want to know.
It just takes too long.
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