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Relliassa	Posted - 2008.07.14 22:25:00 - [1] Fairly new player here, and just been wondering about this (insanely ugly...) cruiser for a while, particularly as I hardly ever see them around: would it be any good for pvp? Specifically: a small gang, with someone else doing the tackling. I mean the slot layout looks ok to me, fair bit of versatility with the setups, but how viable would this ship be in say, a support dps role with railguns/heavies? Or would it work better with blasters? Or does it not work at all and in fact suck? >_< Sorry for the silly questions but can't seem to find a lot of info on this ship, and even less that's up to date/relevant, and despite the looks, I think I'd like to give it a go if it works ok. Thanks in advance!
Joe Starbreaker AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.07.14 22:28:00 - [2] Let's duel. You in your Moa and me in my PVP Augoror!
BoB sucks Burning Bush Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.15 01:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Relliassa Fairly new player here, and just been wondering about this (insanely ugly...) cruiser for a while, particularly as I hardly ever see them around: would it be any good for pvp? Specifically: a small gang, with someone else doing the tackling. I mean the slot layout looks ok to me, fair bit of versatility with the setups, but how viable would this ship be in say, a support dps role with railguns/heavies? Or would it work better with blasters? Or does it not work at all and in fact suck? >_< Sorry for the silly questions but can't seem to find a lot of info on this ship, and even less that's up to date/relevant, and despite the looks, I think I'd like to give it a go if it works ok. Thanks in advance! It sucks tbh. no drone bay, fairly crap dps, and it's range advantage is easily nullified by anyone else.
Greyform Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.15 01:58:00 - [4] I actually like the moa hull alot
el M Caldari Romanian Space Explorer	Posted - 2008.07.15 11:01:00 - [5] used a rigged(purgers) one to tank lvl 4 missions until i got the drake (took a learning detour in between) ... Won't tank the same DPS as the Drake but it has considerable lower signature radius ... other than that .... ----------------- aspiring carebear
Relliassa	Posted - 2008.07.15 11:26:00 - [6] Edited by: Relliassa on 15/07/2008 11:27:36 Ooook so it sucks. Great ¼_¼ And wait, I thought it had a 15m drone bay? Or is that too small to mention
el M Caldari Romanian Space Explorer	Posted - 2008.07.15 11:35:00 - [7] 3 small drones ----------------- aspiring carebear
Falcon Troy Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.15 11:40:00 - [8] None of the Caldari cruisers are really appetizing. Their frigates, battlecruisrs and battleships are a step up but they feel bland. Not bad...just bleh. _____________ Hai.
Snow Banshee	Posted - 2008.07.15 11:49:00 - [9] Originally by: Falcon Troy None of the Caldari cruisers are really appetizing. whispers : b.l.a.c.k.b.i.r.d
Caffeine Junkie 2 Guys In Motherships	Posted - 2008.07.15 13:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Relliassa Fairly new player here, and just been wondering about this (insanely ugly...) cruiser for a while, particularly as I hardly ever see them around: would it be any good for pvp? Specifically: a small gang, with someone else doing the tackling. I mean the slot layout looks ok to me, fair bit of versatility with the setups, but how viable would this ship be in say, a support dps role with railguns/heavies? Or would it work better with blasters? Or does it not work at all and in fact suck? >_< Sorry for the silly questions but can't seem to find a lot of info on this ship, and even less that's up to date/relevant, and despite the looks, I think I'd like to give it a go if it works ok. Thanks in advance! The Moa is awful, truly epicly bad, and its ugly too. If you have hybrid skills cross-train to gallente and get a Thorax. There are many places in this game where battles are fought and won, EFT isn't one of them.
Rajere No Trademark The OSS	Posted - 2008.07.18 15:55:00 - [11] Eh the Moa is one of the best cruisers in eve, right behind the rupture really. The thorax and rupture can outdamage it in gank setups, but at the cost of tanking ability. The Moa is well balanced gank/tank (for a cruiser mind you). I'm willing to bet half the people who think the moa sucks have died to this guy's Moa: http://familyties.frih.net/eve-killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=9889&view=ships_weapons http://notr.darkfrontier.com/kb/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=31&view=ships_weapons NOTR How to Fail at Eve
JS LiamElms Gallente Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.18 15:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Snow Banshee Originally by: Falcon Troy None of the Caldari cruisers are really appetizing. whispers : b.l.a.c.k.b.i.r.d he wins
Soliscout	Posted - 2008.07.18 16:03:00 - [13] in the midnight hour she cries MOA MOA MOA !!!!
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.18 16:10:00 - [14] the moa is a mining ship iirc, got bonus to mining yeild. get a blackbird (jamming) or a caracal(frig/inty killer) if you want to help in pvp. ________________________ I'M POOR
Darko Fett	Posted - 2008.07.18 16:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Kaeten the moa is a mining ship iirc, got bonus to mining yeild. get a blackbird (jamming) or a caracal(frig/inty killer) if you want to help in pvp. You're thinking of the osprey. Moa is a railboat.
Traderboz	Posted - 2008.07.18 16:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Kaeten the moa is a mining ship iirc, got bonus to mining yeild. get a blackbird (jamming) or a caracal(frig/inty killer) if you want to help in pvp. Moa != Osprey
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.18 19:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Snow Banshee Originally by: Falcon Troy None of the Caldari cruisers are really appetizing. whispers : b.l.a.c.k.b.i.r.d Ummm.... other than the Thorax Caldari have by far and away the best cruisers in the game. Infact, every single one of them (with the exception of the moa/thorax example) outclasses every other equivalant cruiser. Osprey: Probably the only t1 logistic ship that actually gets used for logistics and by far and away the best mining cruiser. Caracal: A swarm of these can lay waste to a much better equiped though smaller gang. They can be made to go fast, tank well, and do damage thats not affected by tracking. All for a t1 price tag..... Moa: While the Thorax is the better ship, since it can be setup to be a gank machine with enough buffer to do some exteremely serious damage. With decent skills the Moa becomes a scary sniper for a t1 ship, obviously it doesn't compete with t2 ships but its not supposed to.....while you need to have the skills to fit t2 on it to really make it worth while, you can put a pretty good sniper or gank fit on it and still have room for speed and tank. Blackbird: As Snow Banshee indicated ^^. This ship boarders on overpowered, it's probably the only t1 cruier you see reasonably often in hac/recon gangs. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.07.18 20:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: Snow Banshee Originally by: Falcon Troy None of the Caldari cruisers are really appetizing. whispers : b.l.a.c.k.b.i.r.d Ummm.... other than the Thorax Caldari have by far and away the best cruisers in the game. Infact, every single one of them (with the exception of the moa/thorax example) outclasses every other equivalant cruiser. Osprey: Probably the only t1 logistic ship that actually gets used for logistics and by far and away the best mining cruiser. Caracal: A swarm of these can lay waste to a much better equiped though smaller gang. They can be made to go fast, tank well, and do damage thats not affected by tracking. All for a t1 price tag..... Moa: While the Thorax is the better ship, since it can be setup to be a gank machine with enough buffer to do some exteremely serious damage. With decent skills the Moa becomes a scary sniper for a t1 ship, obviously it doesn't compete with t2 ships but its not supposed to.....while you need to have the skills to fit t2 on it to really make it worth while, you can put a pretty good sniper or gank fit on it and still have room for speed and tank. Blackbird: As Snow Banshee indicated ^^. This ship boarders on overpowered, it's probably the only t1 cruier you see reasonably often in hac/recon gangs. The blackbird is good, but let's not go overboard here... The caracal isn't bad as a stepping stone going up the mission ladder, but competing with the likes of stabbers and vexors in pvp? Don't think so. The osprey... is not "far and away" the best mining cruiser, #2 is actually quite close. You're right about the logistics side of it though. The moa does at least have a fairly unique strength among cruisers in its range. It seems like it could make a good frig killer, though I don't really have any notable pvp experience with or against moas.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.18 20:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Gimpb Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: Snow Banshee Originally by: Falcon Troy None of the Caldari cruisers are really appetizing. whispers : b.l.a.c.k.b.i.r.d Ummm.... other than the Thorax Caldari have by far and away the best cruisers in the game. Infact, every single one of them (with the exception of the moa/thorax example) outclasses every other equivalant cruiser. Osprey: Probably the only t1 logistic ship that actually gets used for logistics and by far and away the best mining cruiser. Caracal: A swarm of these can lay waste to a much better equiped though smaller gang. They can be made to go fast, tank well, and do damage thats not affected by tracking. All for a t1 price tag..... Moa: While the Thorax is the better ship, since it can be setup to be a gank machine with enough buffer to do some exteremely serious damage. With decent skills the Moa becomes a scary sniper for a t1 ship, obviously it doesn't compete with t2 ships but its not supposed to.....while you need to have the skills to fit t2 on it to really make it worth while, you can put a pretty good sniper or gank fit on it and still have room for speed and tank. Blackbird: As Snow Banshee indicated ^^. This ship boarders on overpowered, it's probably the only t1 cruier you see reasonably often in hac/recon gangs. The blackbird is good, but let's not go overboard here... The caracal isn't bad as a stepping stone going up the mission ladder, but competing with the likes of stabbers and vexors in pvp? Don't think so. The osprey... is not "far and away" the best mining cruiser, #2 is actually quite close. You're right about the logistics side of it though. The moa does at least have a fairly unique strength among cruisers in its range. It seems like it could make a good frig killer, though I don't really have any notable pvp experience with or against moas. I'll put it this way, is there a combination of two tech 1 cruisers that would not lose to a BB and caracal? -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Galactic Magi State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.18 20:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: Snow Banshee Originally by: Falcon Troy None of the Caldari cruisers are really appetizing. whispers : b.l.a.c.k.b.i.r.d Ummm.... other than the Thorax Caldari have by far and away the best cruisers in the game. Infact, every single one of them (with the exception of the moa/thorax example) outclasses every other equivalant cruiser. Osprey: Probably the only t1 logistic ship that actually gets used for logistics and by far and away the best mining cruiser. Caracal: A swarm of these can lay waste to a much better equiped though smaller gang. They can be made to go fast, tank well, and do damage thats not affected by tracking. All for a t1 price tag..... Moa: While the Thorax is the better ship, since it can be setup to be a gank machine with enough buffer to do some exteremely serious damage. With decent skills the Moa becomes a scary sniper for a t1 ship, obviously it doesn't compete with t2 ships but its not supposed to.....while you need to have the skills to fit t2 on it to really make it worth while, you can put a pretty good sniper or gank fit on it and still have room for speed and tank. Blackbird: As Snow Banshee indicated ^^. This ship boarders on overpowered, it's probably the only t1 cruier you see reasonably often in hac/recon gangs. I agree with osprey. Blackbird is a good cruiser but calling it overpowered is pushing it. Caracal is not bad with a shield extender setup, but i would REALLY like to see how you make it go fast. As for MOA , my eagle does barely enuf damage for a cruiser sized sniper, only thing scary about Sniper MOA is its tail.
Sphynx Stormlord Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.18 20:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Haradgrim [ I'll put it this way, is there a combination of two tech 1 cruisers that would not lose to a BB and caracal? Maybe a pair of well tanked Vexors?
Lord Gendor GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.18 20:58:00 - [22] Edited by: Lord Gendor on 18/07/2008 20:58:24 Originally by: Haradgrim I'll put it this way, is there a combination of two tech 1 cruisers that would not lose to a BB and caracal? Was going to say two Vexor's, but that was already mentioned, drones would win the day there. Just attack the BB first, then go for the caracal. Other option would be two stabbers, but they wouldn't win, but they wouldn't lose either :D
Rajere No Trademark The OSS	Posted - 2008.07.19 15:46:00 - [23] Edited by: Rajere on 19/07/2008 15:55:31 Edited by: Rajere on 19/07/2008 15:50:16 Quote: I'll put it this way, is there a combination of two tech 1 cruisers that would not lose to a BB and caracal? Other than comedy fits, I'm having trouble finding a combination of T1 cruisers that would lose to a BB & a caracal. I was going to say a Celestis and a Bellicose couldn't beat a BB/Caracal, then I remembered that my buddies bellicose can solo Myrmidons and Drakes, not to mention other t1 cruisers like the poor Moa, and I've personally solo'd Brutix/hound/Cormorant combo as well as a Hurricane using only a Celestis, no help from sentries, rats, or any other source. It seems these funny things called pilot skill and fitting choices introduce so many variables, that statements like "is there a combination of two tech 1 cruisers that would not lose to a BB and caracal?" is really just mental m@sturbation. Here is an example of what two Moas can do. Note the time stamps and participants on those mails and you'll see it was two engagements. 2 Moas vs 4 cruisers and 2 interceptors, Losing 1 moa at the very end but killing 3 cruisers and an interceptor. By the time the Moa pilot returned with another Moa, there was another fight, 2 Moas killing a Sacrilege (a vagabond appears on the km but only with scram), and then 2 moas and a friendly ishtar catch the original thorax that escaped in the first fight. Want to know another thing two Moas can do? this. The two Moa pilots I linked earlier were who we envisioned when we came up with that build, but unfortunately one had to work during that match. "omg phantasms" yeah yeah, but notice that Bolom's Moa outdamaged the phantasms on the initial kills and then dropped slightly below the Phantasms on the first megathron (by 1% dmg) and then outdamaged one of the Phantasms on the last megathron, that dip in dps is from having close range on the mega's who were at range from the guardians at the start of the match. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
LordThyGod	Posted - 2008.07.19 16:00:00 - [24] i completely agree, ive whooped some ass in my moa(and ferox for that matter). It's all about tactics, fit your fleet and not individual ships. [Moa, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Beta Reactor Control: Reaction Control I Internal Force Field Array I Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x3 for 50 more dps, you can drop to med shield booster, lose the reactor control, and add the third mag stab back in, which in all fairness, i generally would, 450 dps is ail nicer than 400
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2008.07.19 16:03:00 - [25] I like teh Moa hull.... It looks very technical. Like all Caldari ships. And just look at starships in RL - in BSG or SGA for instance - no golden hulls!
Relliassa	Posted - 2008.07.19 16:11:00 - [26] Originally by: Rajere Edited by: Rajere on 19/07/2008 15:55:31 Edited by: Rajere on 19/07/2008 15:50:16 Quote: I'll put it this way, is there a combination of two tech 1 cruisers that would not lose to a BB and caracal? Other than comedy fits, I'm having trouble finding a combination of T1 cruisers that would lose to a BB & a caracal. I was going to say a Celestis and a Bellicose couldn't beat a BB/Caracal, then I remembered that my buddies bellicose can solo Myrmidons and Drakes, not to mention other t1 cruisers like the poor Moa, and I've personally solo'd Brutix/hound/Cormorant combo as well as a Hurricane using only a Celestis, no help from sentries, rats, or any other source. It seems these funny things called pilot skill and fitting choices introduce so many variables, that statements like "is there a combination of two tech 1 cruisers that would not lose to a BB and caracal?" is really just mental m@sturbation. Here is an example of what two Moas can do. Note the time stamps and participants on those mails and you'll see it was two engagements. 2 Moas vs 4 cruisers and 2 interceptors, Losing 1 moa at the very end but killing 3 cruisers and an interceptor. By the time the Moa pilot returned with another Moa, there was another fight, 2 Moas killing a Sacrilege (a vagabond appears on the km but only with scram), and then 2 moas and a friendly ishtar catch the original thorax that escaped in the first fight. Want to know another thing two Moas can do? this. The two Moa pilots I linked earlier were who we envisioned when we came up with that build, but unfortunately one had to work during that match. "omg phantasms" yeah yeah, but notice that Bolom's Moa outdamaged the phantasms on the initial kills and then dropped slightly below the Phantasms on the first megathron (by 1% dmg) and then outdamaged one of the Phantasms on the last megathron, that dip in dps is from having close range on the mega's who were at range from the guardians at the start of the match. ... Umm. Wow. So I guess the answer is Moas can do pretty damn well. Didn't expect this thread to turn into such an argument though.
Bufo8o2	Posted - 2008.07.19 17:35:00 - [27] What about variants on the moa hull such as eagles? They seem pretty good though haven't got much knowledge of any other heavy assaults.
Rajere No Trademark The OSS	Posted - 2008.07.19 18:46:00 - [28] The eagle is a Moa with another 10%/level optimal range and 5%/level damage bonus. T2 resists, an extra mid slot, 1 less rig slot and no drones. You can treat the moa as a snipe ship and use Railguns, with Spike you can hit out to 100km doing about as much damage as a crow or something else equally lame, except you're easier to tackle than a crow and you've got no tank. But fortunately for you, unlike a crow you're not really a threat to anyone since you're not going to be tackling anyone way out there by your lonesome and your dps isn't exactly scary, so you'll probably never be primaried, ever. Or, you can treat the Moa as a thorax with slightly less DPS (on paper), but tank comparable to a 5 slot thorax tank. Also the Moa's tank does not make it slower to align, reduce its top speed, reduce its MWD speed, mess with its agility, etc, like a Thorax would if you actually tanked one. Oh also the 50% Optimal bonus means you're doing full damage far more often than a thorax is, because the thorax has to spend more time trying close into its 1.9k blaster optimal range (god help him if he's plated). Thorax still has his drones of course, and that's the dps that carries him through fights while he's zooming around from target to target. NOTR How to Fail at Eve

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