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Rexthor Hammerfists
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.18 10:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 18/07/2008 10:27:39
Some time ago i started a thread about t1 frigates and their roles in pvp.
I used caldari frigs to show the problems, other races frigs do have similar issues tho.
Ill just link you to the thread, continue it here if you like - cant find the original thread on google int he search on this site.
Original Thread
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.18 10:34:00 -
[2]
T1 frigates are meant to be very limited...
The top 2 frigate of a race are normally passable for pvp however, also the smaller fast ones can be good tacklers
My favorite pvp frig is the good old rifter with a med shield extender and a mwd, but I've been looking into the tristan as an option recently.
I also would like to see an arty speed fit rifter, though I have no idea how tracking might fare...
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Hoody
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Posted - 2008.07.18 11:58:00 -
[3]
Tbh a lot of T1 ships could do with a bit of a buff, especially T1 frigs and cruisers. What with everyone seeming to fly hac's or nano***ging nowdays most T1 frig's/cruisers don't really stand much of a chance except maybe a couple? (rax,ruppie,vexor?)
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Dzajic
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Posted - 2008.07.18 12:32:00 -
[4]
Some T1 frigs, destroyers and cruisers should get a well though out buff. Not all, and no T1 ships larger than cruisers.
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Darahk J'olonar
Gallente
Trans Eve Organization
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Posted - 2008.07.18 12:52:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Darahk J''olonar on 18/07/2008 12:52:40
T1 ships are fine. FFS everyone wants to buff this and buff that. For frigates the Rifter, Tristan, Incursus, Punisher, Kestrel and Merlin are fine for general PVP boats at little to no cost. The fast frigates Executioner, Slasher, Atron and Condor make excellent disposable tacklers. The EW frigs, although limited to their T2 variants are effective but again these are T1 ships and are not meant to be top shelf.
Cruisers are just as well suited if not better suited than most of their HAC counterparts. Thorax, Rupture, Vexor, Arbitrator, Omen, Stabber, Blackbird, Caracal and Moa (yes I said a Moa). Each one of these are inexpensive and with a T2 fit and a decent pilot are incredibly effective, some more than others. The T2 variants of these again have nicer bonuses and should seeing that after all they ARE T2 ships.
Now as for other T1 ships vs. their T2 variants the advantages of the T2 variety is not as profound. Command Ships generally have a better tank but sacrifice dps to their T1 counterparts. T2 BS are a joke compared to their T1 counterparts. So all in all the ships in this game are fairly well balanced. It is pilot skill or FC skill when in gang that generally makes the difference in a fight unless completely out blobbed or lagged into a slideshow. Even the completely out blobbed sometimes doesn't mean crap depending on how well the blob works as a whole.
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Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.18 12:55:00 -
[6]
T1 frigs are fine! dont touch em!
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Desu Sigs |
Pretty Ivan
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Posted - 2008.07.18 13:04:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
The Heron, a ship which says in its description is used for scouting but has limited weaponry and defenses.
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There are two things that would make this ship worthwile in pvp: a bonus to cloaked speed - similiar to the stealthbomber one, and a cpu upgrade
It is a scout. It is NOT a stealth bomber. It does not have to be 'more like a stealth bomber'
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
The Condor, a nice ship, fast but does hardly any damage, a born tackler.
My suggestion here would be to change one if its bonuses
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similiar to the crow
It is a fast-ish T1 tackler. It is NOT an interceptor. It does not have to be 'similar to a crow'.
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
The Merlin,
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On top of that it is heavy and slow, but doesnt have the powergrid to fit longrange guns/launchers with an mwd not to mention fill any of its other slots.
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A solution would be to give it 3 or 4 turret hardpoints, plus the pg
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Umm, my Merlin fits 2 x T2 150's, 2x T2 missile launchers and a MWD. Having said that, there are MUCH better fits for a Merlin. Properly fitted, it is fearsome. Think 100-ish dps and 8k EHP
In short, it is a very efective T1 combat frigate. It is NOT an assault frigate. No 'solution' is needed.
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
The Bantam, yay ;).
The T1 mining frigs in general have no hope to compete with the small barges
Simple solution would be to give it some sort of tanking bonus and bonus
This is a mining frigate. It should NOT be competing with barges. If it did, there would be no incentive to train for barges.
I don't want to sound like a troll. My objective with this post is to counter your claims that there is something 'wrong' with caldari frigates.
They all have roles, which they fill well. If you fit and use the ships for the roles they were intended, they work very well indeed. There are even some 'outside the box' configurations and roles.
I don't think anything needs fixing here.
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Captain Otlir
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Posted - 2008.07.18 14:29:00 -
[8]
Like Ivan has so already put so well, T1 frigates do not need any buffs. If you want a 'buffed' version, you must train for their T2 counterparts. It takes time, yes, but Frigates are not supposed to own in PvP; they are cheap, throw-away vessels. As I see it, Frigs, as well as all T1 ships smaller than a battlecrusier, are there to give the player a glimpse into the ship's play style, so they are able to decide which T2 ship suits them most. Then they can start owning in PvP.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.18 14:54:00 -
[9]
I can note several times well before EA wherein friends of mine lost a T2 ship against its T1 counterpart all because the T1 pilot flew, and fitted, his ship better.
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.07.18 17:24:00 -
[10]
There is many frigates that are used only when nothing else is available (0.0 or real noobs in their first few weeks), that out of the way top 'tier' frigates are ok for pvp purposes in general offering great isk/effectivity relation.
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.07.18 17:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kano Sekor
T1 frigs are fine! dont touch em!
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2008.07.18 17:41:00 -
[12]
Tbh it'd be kind of nice if some of the shittier t1 frigs got changed a little. I'd hate to see my rifter touched, haha, but there are a few t1 frigs that are all but useless.
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Ghaylenty
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:14:00 -
[13]
Lets be honest. Frigates as an overall ship class need a bit of love.
The way I envision it, all the ships need a SLIGHT upgrade (ALL Frigs), I'd say a 25% boost to shield/armor and 10% boost to structure.
It should be possible, imo, to have the ability to fly frigates as a primary ship class. Sure, some of them will be cheap throw-away ships, but I believe that given enough ISK investment, a frigate should be considered a "real" threat. Not saying they should take down battleships, because that would be awesome, but an expensive "tricked-out" frigate should be able to compete with HACs/T1 cruisers.
As it stands, the T2 frig combat boats are like really expensive cruisers minus the firepower of medium weaponry and tankage of medium mods.
But yes, T1 frigates should get a buff as well as all frigates in general. :)
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