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Ashen Angel
Minmatar AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.19 18:30:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Ashen Angel
A soldier is also one that doesn't want to get shot while defending their way of life. A soldier is at risk at war, not when he goes nuts and shoots civilians in the middle of Seattle... there he becomes a criminal and the life insurance does not get paid if the cops kill him.
So, if a soldier got killed by cops in another country - say somewhere hot and sandy, is he still insured? Or is he only a criminal at home?
Just askin'
Why was he killed? Was he killed for pillaging a civilian's home? Was he killed because he was threatening a civilian with his issued weapon? Was he killed because he was part of an invading army and they were defending against said invasion?
clarify why, then you might already have the answer.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 18:45:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Julie Parker
Originally by: baltec1
Yeah, because people would ONLY go after the milti billion isk ships and leave all the new players well alone, thats exactly what happens in low sec. You are an idiot.
Oh and if you put stuff into a cargo container all you will see on the scan is a cargo container.
YOU are the idiot. Try not speaking about things you don't know about... like cargo scanning for instance... if you're going to go around calling names. Idiot.
There is a way to use the currier contracts (I think) to hide cargo. I dont remember exactly how to do it but when scanned all that would show up is the container. Frieghter poilots mentioned it in an older "my badger got nuked" thread.
As for calling him an idiot, I just gave him the same kind of tratment he gave to the guy he quoted.
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.19 18:59:00 -
[63]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Julie Parker
Originally by: baltec1
Yeah, because people would ONLY go after the milti billion isk ships and leave all the new players well alone, thats exactly what happens in low sec. You are an idiot.
Oh and if you put stuff into a cargo container all you will see on the scan is a cargo container.
YOU are the idiot. Try not speaking about things you don't know about... like cargo scanning for instance... if you're going to go around calling names. Idiot.
There is a way to use the currier contracts (I think) to hide cargo. I dont remember exactly how to do it but when scanned all that would show up is the container. Frieghter poilots mentioned it in an older "my badger got nuked" thread.
As for calling him an idiot, I just gave him the same kind of tratment he gave to the guy he quoted.
Cargo scans only go two layers deep.
Standard container use results in : Hold > Container > contents [so they can see everything]
Standard courier use would be: Hold > wrapper > contents [again can see everything]
Courier using containers are : Hold > wrapper > container > contents [so they can see into a wrapper but not what is in the container inside the wrapper]
Some use the last as a key that they should attack, since the contents are hidden from them.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.19 19:00:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Veldya Edited by: Veldya on 19/07/2008 16:52:22
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Vaal Erit No to any form of pirating in high security space. New players should not be victim to older players with billions of disposable assets. New players are always needed to keep the game fresh and continuing on.
Except its not new players being suicide ganked, but rather stupid old players hauling billions around in a t1 hauler. So your point is moot.
This is a moronic comment. You realize how many barges and exhumers have been ganked in the last 6 months? You can get T1 gank fits where the insurance pretty much covers the cost of the ship and modules so basically if anything drops it is all profit.
For new players who have got into a barge in 1 month or exhumer in 3 months where the insurance doesn't even remotely come close to covering the ship alone and the ships represent a massive chunk of their net worth while you have people who have billions in assets popping these defenseless ships.
If you didn't get insurance payout for popping the ships then ganking would then be limited to targets of value. At present almost any target is viable and because of the free ride with insurance you have griefers who sacrifice a number of ships to take out Marauders with T2 mods just because they know the mission runner is out of pocket because he can't insure his ship like they can the ganking ships.
Insurance needs to change. At present the griefing rules are wortheless because to a ganker any target has a value. People who are out there who grief targets of no real worth but to so to grief are the ones that are going to cause the system to change, it is only a matter of time.
It makes perfect sense to fly a ship that consists of most of your net worth, without paying enough attention to warp out when a couple battleships or battlecruisers warp in and begin to target you.
Unless you like to sit directly on the warp to 0 point of the belt, you should be out of the range of a warp disruptor. And when you see that cruiser coming at you and targetting you....
He's probably not mining.
So, to summarize:
It's still your fault that you let yourself get ganked. Not being able to tell who is friend, foe, or neutral is all a part of highsec.
You take that with the CONCORD protection. In 0.0, you get no CONCORD, but you know who will and will not shoot you immediately.
Funny how you rarely hear people complaining about being ganked in 0.0...
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.19 19:19:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar /wall of text did not read
Btw: Its a perfectly good mechanic. If you are worried you will be ganked, heres what u can do: 1) Dont AFK 2) Bring a Logistics to web you and rep you 3) Stay docked
Remember:
For dealing with frieghter suicide ganks, those are exceptionally stupid suggestions.
Not being afk only means you get to watch your ship die. If a group is killing frieghters, they are a large group. They'll have scouts. They'll get you outbound.
Webbing can help, but its a gamble and one you'll probably lose. It all depends on if they get a disruption point on before the web. With a large group, they can have a Badger giving 6 remote sensor boosts for lock time to a tackler BS sitting on top of the gate.
Remote reping is so exceptionally stupid in this situation as to be almost beyond words. Regardless of skills, the odds of the amount reped over the time of the gank making a difference is TINY.
If you are going to suggest something, try suggestiing something that has a chance of making a difference.
Oh, and for the record, I don't mind suicide ganking in high sec, but I don't think they should get insurance.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.19 19:20:00 -
[66]
^ Scouts are hard.
Those 20 battleships sitting on the gate are probably making S'Mores. We should take our freighter through and see if they have extra.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.19 19:44:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Aria Seniste ^ Scouts are hard.
Those 20 battleships sitting on the gate are probably making S'Mores. We should take our freighter through and see if they have extra.
lol, MUCH better suggestion than a logistics for remote reping:)
A scout can indeed help keep a frieghter alive.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.07.19 21:48:00 -
[68]
*facepalm*
Click me! You know you want to... |
Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.19 22:26:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 19/07/2008 19:48:09 Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 19/07/2008 19:46:14
Originally by: Aria Seniste ^ Scouts are hard.
Those 20 battleships sitting on the gate are probably making S'Mores. We should take our freighter through and see if they have extra.
lol, MUCH better suggestion than a logistics for remote reping:)
A scout can indeed help keep a frieghter alive.
Edit: However, 20 battleships sitting 100,000km from the gate, aligned and up to speed won't be on the gate to be seen.
2nd Edit. But then your scout could have scanner to BS and BC only, and adjust range, however, in some systems there well could be that many BS within a few million km of a gate just PvEing.
Or your scout could have a web so that the freighter warps off before the BS arrive
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.07.19 22:36:00 -
[70]
Rumor has it that there's a scanner button…
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justsometrader
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Posted - 2008.07.19 22:39:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tippia Rumor has it that there's a scanner buttoną
freighter has no fitting slots, so there cant be a scanner button
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.19 22:48:00 -
[72]
Originally by: justsometrader
Originally by: Tippia Rumor has it that there's a scanner buttoną
freighter has no fitting slots, so there cant be a scanner button
You clearly know a lot about the on board scanner.
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.07.19 22:52:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Aria Seniste
Originally by: justsometrader
Originally by: Tippia Rumor has it that there's a scanner button…
freighter has no fitting slots, so there cant be a scanner button
You clearly know a lot about the on board scanner.
…and about what a "scout ship" is.
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bluebeyond
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.07.19 23:03:00 -
[74]
"unrealistic mechanic" So all these suicide bombings in RL never happened?
So suicide bombings are just a "bad mechanic"
Whatcha gona do about that then...
Stop ****ing moaning about it. Anyone who posts a ****ing threads about this or "someone's stealing my salvage" should be banned.
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Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
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Posted - 2008.07.19 23:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Vaal Erit No to any form of pirating in high security space. New players should not be victim to older players with billions of disposable assets. New players are always needed to keep the game fresh and continuing on.
Yes, because it's new players that are being victimized when they get suicide ganked carrying billions of assets on paperthin ships. I've yet to see a new (less than 3 month old player) have more than 500mil in assets, and that's pushing it.
Alts don't count as new players, it's their owners' fault they can't fly anything other than a max expanded itty5s -- this is my sig. |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.20 03:04:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Oh, and for the record, I don't mind suicide ganking in high sec, but I don't think they should get insurance.
And i would agree. But on the proviso that your lot dont get insurance out throwing battleships away out in 0.0 jumping though gates to your certain death.
SKUNK
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SchirmerN
Amarr x13
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Posted - 2008.07.20 03:11:00 -
[77]
Edited by: SchirmerN on 20/07/2008 03:11:21
arghhhh wall of text!. not gonna read that |
Emoikid
Gallente EmoCorp
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Posted - 2008.07.20 05:16:00 -
[78]
Suicide ganking is ok, go play WOW newb.
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Julius Kalmaris
Ugunduzi Interstellar Brotherhood of Nod.
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Posted - 2008.07.20 05:59:00 -
[79]
If you're afraid of losing your ships and your items in the game mabye you shouldn't be playing it? Suicide ganking is as much apart of the game as mining or missioning is. Deal with it.
BTW, anyone remember UO, the early years when it was good, before Rennisance? Suicide ganking was quite common in-game, specifically at Britain bank. Same with stealing, pvping. I miss those days Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.20 07:32:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Oh, and for the record, I don't mind suicide ganking in high sec, but I don't think they should get insurance.
And i would agree. But on the proviso that your lot dont get insurance out throwing battleships away out in 0.0 jumping though gates to your certain death.
SKUNK
Oh no no no. Only your play style must be nerfed. Mine must remain untouched, or perhaps even enhanced to compensate.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.07.20 07:41:00 -
[81]
OP.. Take some golden fool proof advice from me.
Move your valuable shit in batches over a few days time. Use different hauling alts. MAXIMUM TANK YOUR ****ING TRANSPORT SHIP OF CHOICE YOU ****ING GIT. ???? Profit!
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.20 07:58:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Willow Whisp
Originally by: Vaal Erit No to any form of pirating in high security space. New players should not be victim to older players with billions of disposable assets. New players are always needed to keep the game fresh and continuing on.
Yes, because it's new players that are being victimized when they get suicide ganked carrying billions of assets on paperthin ships. I've yet to see a new (less than 3 month old player) have more than 500mil in assets, and that's pushing it.
Alts don't count as new players, it's their owners' fault they can't fly anything other than a max expanded itty5s
Again that post was in responce to this statement above it.
"Suicide ganking should be nerfed hard when NPC corp protection/corp hopping to avoid wardecs is removed."
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Hieronimus Rex
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Posted - 2008.07.20 08:09:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Riho once more... CONCORD DOES NOT DEFEND ANYONE... GET IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111111oneoneoneleven
they just punish... and that works perfect.
suicide ganking is ok. tyvm
PS: no im not a suicide ganker myself...
Punishment should include taking the loot.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.20 08:31:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Sergeant Spot Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 19/07/2008 19:48:09 Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 19/07/2008 19:46:14
Originally by: Aria Seniste ^ Scouts are hard.
Those 20 battleships sitting on the gate are probably making S'Mores. We should take our freighter through and see if they have extra.
lol, MUCH better suggestion than a logistics for remote reping:)
A scout can indeed help keep a frieghter alive.
Edit: However, 20 battleships sitting 100,000km from the gate, aligned and up to speed won't be on the gate to be seen.
2nd Edit. But then your scout could have scanner to BS and BC only, and adjust range, however, in some systems there well could be that many BS within a few million km of a gate just PvEing.
Or your scout could have a web so that the freighter warps off before the BS arrive
20 might be off grid, but at least one will parked on the gate and sensor boosted.
The scout seeing that possible threat is more significant than the web attempt. Webbing to get by is a gamble, and one you'll lose far to often for it be even an option (when you are talking frieghters with multi billion cargos, anything less then 99% success is not option...)
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Hieronimus Rex
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Posted - 2008.07.20 08:35:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana No, highsec should not be safe, yes I shouldn't fly into Jita carrying billions of isk in a shuttle, and yes freighters should be hard to move around. BUT, suicide ganking is not the answer, regardless of whether your a gankie or a ganker, you should agree that its a very strange, unrealistic mechanic, it makes no sense from an RP perspective and it makes no sense from a gameplay perspective. I understand CCPs desire for a dark universe, and there should be a mechanic that allows for highsec robbery, ganking and murder.
Wait...so you're saying they should allow the SAME thing as suicide ganking, but implement it through a different game mechanic. I suppose 10/10 for originality but this is a terrible idea.
Originally by: baltec1 People wouldn't be suicide ganked if they didnt make themselve a target.
Putting 1 billion in an untanked badger with low slots and rigs filled with cargo expanders is not a good idea.
Putting 100 million in a blockade runner with rigs and low slots that help it align faster and a cloaking device is a good idea. Even if you do somwhow get ganked in it you won't end up losing everything.
They also wouldn't be suicide ganked if CONCORD took the loot.
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.20 08:38:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
Originally by: Nikita Alterana No, highsec should not be safe, yes I shouldn't fly into Jita carrying billions of isk in a shuttle, and yes freighters should be hard to move around. BUT, suicide ganking is not the answer, regardless of whether your a gankie or a ganker, you should agree that its a very strange, unrealistic mechanic, it makes no sense from an RP perspective and it makes no sense from a gameplay perspective. I understand CCPs desire for a dark universe, and there should be a mechanic that allows for highsec robbery, ganking and murder.
Wait...so you're saying they should allow the SAME thing as suicide ganking, but implement it through a different game mechanic. I suppose 10/10 for originality but this is a terrible idea.
Originally by: baltec1 People wouldn't be suicide ganked if they didnt make themselve a target.
Putting 1 billion in an untanked badger with low slots and rigs filled with cargo expanders is not a good idea.
Putting 100 million in a blockade runner with rigs and low slots that help it align faster and a cloaking device is a good idea. Even if you do somwhow get ganked in it you won't end up losing everything.
They also wouldn't be suicide ganked if CONCORD took the loot.
So in essence careless players should not have to suffer any disadvanatges over careful ones? People should just be allowed to AFK valuable cargoes in perfect safety?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.20 08:38:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
Originally by: Riho once more... CONCORD DOES NOT DEFEND ANYONE... GET IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111111oneoneoneleven
they just punish... and that works perfect.
suicide ganking is ok. tyvm
PS: no im not a suicide ganker myself...
Punishment should include taking the loot.
If you can't be bothered to look after your stuff, why should concord do it for you?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
justsometrader
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Posted - 2008.07.20 09:07:00 -
[88]
if somebody steals stuf from me in RL, the police (concord in EVE) will punish him AND take the stuff from him aswell...I guess thats the idea behind it
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.20 09:10:00 -
[89]
Originally by: justsometrader if somebody steals stuf from me in RL, the police (concord in EVE) will punish him AND take the stuff from him aswell...I guess thats the idea behind it
That doesnt even happen in real life most the time...
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justsometrader
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Posted - 2008.07.20 09:25:00 -
[90]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: justsometrader if somebody steals stuf from me in RL, the police (concord in EVE) will punish him AND take the stuff from him aswell...I guess thats the idea behind it
That doesnt even happen in real life most the time...
well if they capture the criminal and he carries the stuff with him, I guess it will. So if Concord shows up after a gank and the ganker has the stuff in his cargohold, well they could take it aswell (to the potential flamers, I am NOT suggesting this should be implemented, I am just trying to make a comparison to the RL)
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