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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Boraeus
Sanity Mute Northern Associates.
0
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Posted - 2012.03.17 17:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Everyone has heard of them and everyone has an opinion on them. Here's mine Nerfs Need to become a thing of the gratefully forgotten past. If you have been playing anywhere near as long as i have much less longer; you have suffered the anger and disappointment of spending a large amount of time and ISK to get into a ship or class of ships only to have it nerfed before or soon after attaining the skill needed to fly it. The logic behind this is to "level" the playing field between the races etc etc. but nothing in eve is or is supposed to be truly equal, if it were it wouldn't matter one bit which race you chose or trained as all would do everything equally well. This is obviously not the case and its NOT supposed to be. People that PVP choose Amarr and Minnmatar ships because they suit their needs best. Industrial characters use Gallente and the majority of hardcore PVE people start out if not stay with the Caldari and the drake. If it is decided that adjustments NEED to be made to ships in order to facilitate game play it should be in the direction of IMPROVING ships that are deficient NOT nerfing ships that are good and people are happy with. I agree that The Titan nerf was Necessary as improving all other ships to match would not be feasible however this is the exception NOT the rule. The multitude of carrier nerfs for example was almost if not entirely unnecessary, Who gives a damn if you are using a carrier as a jump freighter? its YOUR carrier if you have cargo that needs more protection than a freighter than so be it. if you aren't happy with people using the carrier that way then BUFF the JF's cargo bay! trust me people will start using the damn thing again! or make it to where the freighters can fit a few mods to them so they arent so blasted easy targets. every other ship in eve can be modified for the job you need it to do so BUFF the blasted freighter and make more people happier instead of nerfing a perfectly good carrier. If battlecruisers have become too powerful compared to battleships its not the BC's fault or the BC pilot's fault. The problem lies in the Battleship NOT being good enough! This is a SCI FI game. as you get into Bigger and BETTER ships they are supposed to be more capable and awesome! the improvement of ship class and the pilot's skills is SUPPOSED to result in a truly AWE inspiring combination. New players should be looking at the old guard and their T2 Battleships which are decimating a field of lvl 4 opponents with ease and be VASTLY impressed and think to themselves "HELL YEAH thats what I want to FLY!" what is NOT supposed to happen is working for MONTHS or YEARS to get into a ship Only to have it NERFED to hell and gone by the time you get into it and you're wondering why the hell you even bothered to spend all that time training and playing. This practice causes anger, disappointment and general dissatisfaction with the game in the long term and seriously NEEDS to be addressed. New and improved graphics are great, new ships are awesome, but honestly the nerfs are going to end up killing this game. and i think you (CCP) know it. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5645
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Posted - 2012.03.17 17:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ugh. Why do you hate paragraphs so much?
Anyway, no, nerfs are better than buffs, and EVE isn't a game where bigger is better, so appealing to that logic is quite contrary to where the game is supposed to be. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Xayder
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
94
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Posted - 2012.03.17 17:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
a wall of tekst too much words
tl;dr ? I don't always post, But when i post I do it with my main |
Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2012.03.17 17:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xayder wrote:a wall of tekst too much words
tl;dr ? TL;DR OP is dumb. Doesn't realize that power is relative. |
Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
196
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Posted - 2012.03.17 19:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Someone else upset at the Titan nerf. Ah, NC., firgure. |
OfBalance
Caldari State
169
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Posted - 2012.03.17 19:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Where is your ratting titan and how can we help it work again? |
Bibosikus
Inside out. The G0dfathers
44
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Posted - 2012.03.17 20:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
You seem to forget that while there is a large established player base (who pay for their game through time spent online), CCP relies on recruiting new players who actually inject r/l isk into the Eve, and not-so-new players who buy GTC's.
Because let's face it - without them, those of us who haven't/won't/can't afford to pay proper money would all be in offline pods.
So Bigger = Better has to be a balance between the ambitions of newer players to fly new ships against the older players who can already fly them.
Basically, the Eve players who actually pay the salaries of CCP staff by subscribing and/or buying GTC's should feel as if they've got a decent future in Eve that doesn't involve 100mill skill points.
Hence, nerfs and buffs to various aspects of Eve should, do, and must continually occur. In one sense, they reflect the ever-changing numbers of newly-subscribing gamers.
Look at the bigger picture, mate.
Also, look at my paragraphs The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
175
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Posted - 2012.03.17 20:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fights that end very quickly are generally bad, this is why nerfs are the way to go in most cases. |
Flanker Dux
Kumovi The G0dfathers
0
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Posted - 2012.03.17 20:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
EvE is a SCI-FI game, ore than any other (not that i play any others), and it is true that nerfing can be sometimes even brutal. The main problem i always had with nerfing ships and mods is: _This is the future, cmooon. I mean, shouldnt we build ships that are better than the ones in the past? Whats the logic of building a "new" carrier if it's worse than the old one? Would be if US Marines scrubbed their M1A2 for a Sherman!
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Powers Sa
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.03.17 21:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
f***ing nerfs, how do they work? |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5650
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Posted - 2012.03.17 21:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Flanker Dux wrote:The main problem i always had with nerfing ships and mods is: _This is the future, cmooon. I mean, shouldnt we build ships that are better than the ones in the past? GǪand that has what to do with nerfs, exactly? RP is irrelevant; gameplay is everything.
If you absolutely want an RP reason, it's not that the ship was nerfed, it's that everything else has received their Block 37 upgrades, but the procurement process of this particular ship has stalled during budget negotiations and has fallen behind the curve as a result. It's not actually worse than before GÇö everything else has just gotten (relatively) better and has been equipped with fourth-gen passive ewar mods that completely knock out some previously critical system on the ship in question. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn
42
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Posted - 2012.03.17 21:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Oh, look, yet *another* whine about the Titan temp fix, even if he says it's a necessary one. |
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
3
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Posted - 2012.03.18 01:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
I think that i understand a small part of this post and i agree with that very specific part.
I am training an alt to fly carriers and or dreads. It as almost all int + mem done, but i do not want to remap right now because CCP seems to be unsure where they are going. What it means is, a big big MEGA EXTRA ******* big amount of time, in the form of skill points, is required. Once you get there, CCP says. YOU LOSE.
I am soooo not tempted to make a choice for that future toon right now......
It does not need to be about big ships, even for small one, imagine you are 3 months old, you went for that beautiful coercer, you have lazzooooors. For whatever reasons, someone at CCP decides lazzooooors have become a bad thing and a nerf is applied. Do you renew your subscription ? |
OfBalance
Caldari State
171
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Posted - 2012.03.18 01:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bloutok wrote:For whatever reasons, someone at CCP decides lazzooooors have become a bad thing and a nerf is applied. Do you renew your subscription ?
If your sub is dependant on flying something broken, in your example "lazzooooors," and in reality "titans" then we will all be glad to see you go. Alternatively: htfu. |
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
3
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Posted - 2012.03.18 01:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
OfBalance wrote:Bloutok wrote:For whatever reasons, someone at CCP decides lazzooooors have become a bad thing and a nerf is applied. Do you renew your subscription ? If your sub is dependant on flying something broken, in your example "lazzooooors," and in reality "titans" then we will all be glad to see you go. Alternatively: htfu.
You are kinda making it specific to titans, i was trying to go in a general sense that CCP being unsure as to what they will do next, it makes it hard for players to decide what to go for. Or do you imply that it is part of the game that what you go for might be nerfed before you even get there and should be accounted for in you decision making ? |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
179
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Posted - 2012.03.18 01:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bloutok wrote:OfBalance wrote:Bloutok wrote:For whatever reasons, someone at CCP decides lazzooooors have become a bad thing and a nerf is applied. Do you renew your subscription ? If your sub is dependant on flying something broken, in your example "lazzooooors," and in reality "titans" then we will all be glad to see you go. Alternatively: htfu. You are kinda making it specific to titans, i was trying to go in a general sense that CCP being unsure as to what they will do next, it makes it hard for players to decide what to go for. Or do you imply that it is part of the game that what you go for might be nerfed before you even get there and should be accounted for in you decision making ?
What they will do next? They are trying to balance the game which means you should choose ships/mods for whatever tactic you want/need to use and not what is the fotm. |
OfBalance
Caldari State
171
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Posted - 2012.03.18 01:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bloutok wrote:OfBalance wrote:Bloutok wrote:For whatever reasons, someone at CCP decides lazzooooors have become a bad thing and a nerf is applied. Do you renew your subscription ? If your sub is dependant on flying something broken, in your example "lazzooooors," and in reality "titans" then we will all be glad to see you go. Alternatively: htfu. You are kinda making it specific to titans, i was trying to go in a general sense that CCP being unsure as to what they will do next, it makes it hard for players to decide what to go for. Or do you imply that it is part of the game that what you go for might be nerfed before you even get there and should be accounted for in you decision making ?
"Something broken."
The fact that specifically brings titans to your mind speaks volumes.
But implying that you'd quit the game over a nerf to some ship is pathetic. |
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
3
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Posted - 2012.03.18 01:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
It is ?
You are 3 months old, the only thing you can fly properly is that one ship, no hybrids, no auto cannons..........
Maybe i am a bit hard when i say unsubscribe, but you do manage to avoid my point once more.
Is it part of the game, is it something that everyone should know from day one that things get nerfed and that is all there is to it ?
Is it "normal" that we do not know what may or may not be changed. We are talking about a big investment in time here.
For the record, the nearest i ever came to a titan is by looking at a killmail. I am not defending the titan nerf in any way shape or form. |
OfBalance
Caldari State
171
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Posted - 2012.03.18 01:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yes. |
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
3
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Posted - 2012.03.18 01:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ok, let me expand a bit on what i am thinking.
CCP is thinking of changing the way cruisers are being researched skill wise. One of the first thing people cried about was that they may end up not being able to fly what they were flying before and that they needed a lot of SP to make them happy. Why is it that when CCP nerf something, we do not get the choice to get our SP back ?
Else, is it something that we should always be aware of, you train something, the only way you get a free candy is if CCP erases a skill, and if you have cruiser 5, then you only get SP for cruiser 5, not all 4 new cruisers.
Else, you always get the choice to get SP back when CCP pisses you off in one way or another....
Pick one, i hate it when it's both ways. Depends how i feel today kind of thing. Am i pissing a lot of people ? Ohh just a few. Well no candies for you... hahahahahahaha. |
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OfBalance
Caldari State
173
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Posted - 2012.03.18 01:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bloutok wrote: CCP is thinking of changing the way cruisers are being researched skill wise. One of the first thing people cried about was that they may end up not being able to fly what they were flying before and that they needed a lot of SP to make them happy. Why is it that when CCP nerf something, we do not get the choice to get our SP back ?
Literally not being able to board a ship post-patch is not the same as a role change or stat nerf to that ship.
I'll put it as simply as possible here: CCP does not and should never give a **** what your or my expectations of a ship are. Their job is to make every ship worth flying to some degree or in some situation. If one ship causes a lot of others to be not worth flying, expect that at some point it will be nerfed and don't expect an sp refund. |
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
3
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Posted - 2012.03.18 02:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Why is it that having new cruisers to train is different ?
You trained for a ship for a reason, CCP deleted that reason, not the ship. What makes deleting the ship any different ? It's not like you cant get it back ? But cant remove a nerf on your own.
Why is nerfing ok SP wise but not forcing people to train a few more skills ?
Edit:
By the way, this toon is trained in a way that if CCP was to give free SP for the changes, i'd stand to get a maximum. Just saying because i still think you do not understand that i am trying to talk about this in a more general way, like you are taking it very personal :P |
OfBalance
Caldari State
177
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Posted - 2012.03.18 02:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bloutok wrote:Why is it that having new cruisers to train is different ?
I covered that here:
OfBalance wrote:Literally not being able to board a ship post-patch is not the same as a role change or stat nerf to that ship.
Bloutok wrote: You trained for a ship for a reason, CCP deleted that reason, not the ship. What makes deleting the ship any different ? It's not like you cant get it back ? But cant remove a nerf on your own.
Why is nerfing ok SP wise but not forcing people to train a few more skills ?
I covered that here:
OfBalance wrote:CCP does not and should never give a **** what your or my expectations of a ship are. |
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
3
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Posted - 2012.03.18 02:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
So, having to spend a week or 2 of training to get your ship back is a crime but losing the entire reason why you got a ship in the first place, that is ok ? Seriously ???? |
OfBalance
Caldari State
177
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Posted - 2012.03.18 02:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bloutok wrote:So, having to spend a week or 2 of training to get your ship back is a crime but losing the entire reason why you got a ship in the first place, that is ok ? Seriously ????
Yarly. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
73
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Posted - 2012.03.18 02:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
ITT : Nerfing nerfs |
Darth Tickles
Northstar Cabal Fatal Ascension
82
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Posted - 2012.03.18 02:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nerfs happen.
Deal wiz it |
Eian
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.03.18 02:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
******. |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
1384
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Posted - 2012.03.18 09:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Moved from "Ships & Modules".
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
493
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Posted - 2012.03.18 15:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Looks like your Enter Key hates you, occasionally taking a hit but more often avoiding your blows.
Boraeus wrote: The logic behind this is to "level" the playing field between the races etc etc. but nothing in eve is or is supposed to be truly equal, if it were it wouldn't matter one bit which race you chose or trained as all would do everything equally well. This is obviously not the case and its NOT supposed to be. Agreed, but I dissagree with your assement of the Titan Nerf. EVE is not fair and it was a very clever way to utilize a ship (called Sandbox, make the game yours and step on your enemy any way short of using actual exploits). Titans have a huge weakeness when they give so much in up for a tracking mods, so that means stop flying smaller crappy ships and start flying cap ships. Plus, it requires teamwork to web the crap out of those ships as no single titan vs a smaller ship at an optimal orbits will be under those guns.
You have a problem with caps? Don't have them, won't train for them, you don't like them? Tough, that is your problem. Aside from the swapping to tank while being targeted which could be fixed (orca aggression? Obviously fixed, so could Titans), they are still killable....when you bring the right ship for the job. That is called cap ships, so step up and step into a cap ship. BANG! You will kill those Titans fitting tracking mods, forcing them to use DD and actual tanks...which leaves them on grid...bring more caps....and there you have a winning strategy. |
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