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Official Press Release 03. CA And XETIC

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Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.05.28 01:53:00 - [361] Well Xetic changed the NAP, without consulting with us. SO we are at war, which is quit fun, I even think its fun for Xetic, allthough loosing that amount of war material as they do, would hurt anyone. Its Nize to be back in my old hunting grounds, in immensea area. I remmember when the only alliance down here in that area was SA, i jumped a billion gates to come hunt and mine, ahhh those where the days, and belive at that time we had a ctd every 10 minutes or so. Now im firmly nested down, every system i visit, brings up old bookmarks i havent seen in an age or used for that matter. I think i wil stay for awhile ....still got plenty of ammo, so why not So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Morlock	Posted - 2004.05.28 01:54:00 - [362] while i have no desire to continue with this endless temporal loop of insanity, there is 1 thing that has been playing on my mind. 1. C4 has consistently stated that they are NOT CA. they say they have some corps in CA which may lead to confusion but they are DEFINATELY NOT CA. 2. when C4 went to war against SA and conquered the esoteria region xif approached C4 to create a NAP. we did this because C4 has publicly stated they are a seperate entity to CA and so they are of course deserving of their own NAP. 3. overtures at a NAP with C4 were turned down however we had a "gentlemans agreement" in that we were both fighting a common enemy and so some leeway was given to C4 shipping through xif space. as an active patroller along our borders i myself escorted many C4 ships through our space and met some rather cool people on the 25 jump trip. however this refusal of C4 to sign a NAP with us made some xif people understandably nervous and led to fears that C4 had designs on our space as esoteria is rather a poor region. feythabolis was their closest target. 4. C4 gets driven out of esoteria (or leaves of their own accord) and heads back to CA space. 5. the Redeamer incident occurs. both sides have a valid point of view - hatepeace was definately belligerant and waagaa was possibly over-reactive. were it me i probably would have let him pass however i stand by waagaas decision 100% as he was the pilot in space at the time. 6. C4 suddenly become a part of CA again and start stating that they fall under the conditions of the XIF / CA NAP. war is declared, we lose a bunch of ships (which are 100% insured for the most part) and start fighting back. we are getting better every day and the dusty military wings of xif corps finally have something better to do than guard ops and go ratting so i would like the following cleared please - 1. is C4 an official part of CA or not? 2. if C4 is part of CA then their xif NAP argument is valid. if C4 is not part of CA then their NAP argument is invalid. 3. if C4 is a part of CA, why have C4 been posting here many many times that they are NOT CA? it seems to me that C4 want their cake and eat it too, and would then like to help themselves to CA's cake and THEN raid xetics cookie jar. kind regards, morlock
Tholarim	Posted - 2004.05.28 02:10:00 - [363] Things evolve.... most C4 logicly joined CA. quite a while back. this should not make any difference since OC was CA all along.
Kerosene	Posted - 2004.05.28 02:14:00 - [364] Originally by: Reverend Necrona Originally by: Jadrut OMG MY CAPS LOCK IS STUCKED!!1!!1111 No it's for shouting, like you do to get a message across to a stupid person. Or if the other person is really far away.
Morlock	Posted - 2004.05.28 02:18:00 - [365] Quote: Things evolve they most certainly do. it does however seem rather unreasonable that many CA/C4 advocates on this thread are angry at xetic for actions we consider "evolution" Quote: and most C4 logicly joined CA while it may be logical to internal CA politics it is not so logical to the rest of the universe, ESPECIALLY considering the frequent and strident claims by C4 commanders that they are NOT CA. was xetic informed that C4 was no longer a seperate alliance but were now a part of CA? Quote: this should not make any difference since OC was CA all along why does your sig state "C4 Head Lunatic"? you are in omega corp but you fly the C4 banner. there seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors going on with C4 here. they are CA, they are not CA, they always were CA. some clarification would be appreciated so, once this war is settled, tragic lapses of communication such as led to this conflict can be avoided in the future. kind regards, morlock
Moiran	Posted - 2004.05.28 03:17:00 - [366] "Even that being the case, which it isn't" Intresting come on don't by shy post the text alowing you to travel from SA space to CA space unanounced right through 3 regions. "(btw i suggest you look at the origional nap before making comments or using second hand information" I have it fully writen out on the Xetic Diplomatic page so again which point gives you the right to travel? "i.e your corp mates going "OMG OMG THEY NEVER WERE ALLOWED IN OUR SPACE!") w can't recall my corpmates said that, maybe someone else in our alliance did? when C4 moved most of its fleet into Stain space via Xetic we went unchallenged and unquestioned, we even got offers of escort." You refer to an situation when we were in war with SA during wartime we obviously haven't an nap with SA , standing orders for patrols where to turn a blind eye for C4 movements as long as they where not hurting our intrest and hurting SA intrest as long as they didn't asked any favours in return, after the renewed nap with SA any movement was hurting our intrest obviously because that would be not upholding the nap agreement we made with SA. As for talks about an "renewed" NAP i gladly point you to the previous post we tried but failed to come to an agreement.
Dolemite2K	Posted - 2004.05.28 03:28:00 - [367] almost at 20 pages dare i hope for 25 ----------------------------------------------- Life is like a long poo that you have to take a bite of every day
DaShmoo	Posted - 2004.05.28 04:13:00 - [368] hopes he is page 20 On a side note, you will see some XETIC people seeming to be "flaming" or whatever, but that is becuase most of XETIC liked CA alot. After this, it's just being stabbed in the back. Primer said it best really.
Darkrydar	Posted - 2004.05.28 04:30:00 - [369] Originally by: DaShmoo hopes he is page 20 On a side note, you will see some XETIC people seeming to be "flaming" or whatever, but that is becuase most of XETIC liked CA alot. After this, it's just being stabbed in the back. Primer said it best really. By saying best, you mean being wrong. You cannot change a diplomatic agreement midstream and not inform the other party and expect it to be valid. This is so simple, yet it seems most of you fail to realise this.
Janiir	Posted - 2004.05.28 04:34:00 - [370] Edited by: Janiir on 28/05/2004 04:37:42 Well, at this point, I think arguing who was right and who was wrong is rather moot, as I said before. All of Xetic/IF agrees on one thing, and CA/C4 all agree on another. I sincerely doubt either side will be able to either convince the other or, more importantly, admit any wrongdoing. Much like real world politics, in that sense. Nobody wants to publicly lose face, so both sides will just stick to their stories until the end, be it bitter or not. To be honest, even though (obviously) I am completely behind Xetic/IF, I do see the CA/C4 view, which is not without any credibility. In the end, it is quite possible that both sides may turn out to be right in their own way, as it does seem that the text of the rather ancient NAP is widely open to interpretation in more than one way since X/IF grew. To provide an example, and obviously I'm going on what I learned since I am rather new, the actual NAP was agreed upon when Xetic was Immensea, and so writing "Xetic" and "Immensea" in the NAP meant the same thing. But, since Xetic/IF expanded into several other regions since then and the text of the NAP was not updated to reflect that change, "Xetic" in the NAP no longer refers to Immensea, but to the other regions as well. So, I'm not surprised CA/C4 interpreted it as such, while in the minds of Xetic/IF members things changed and the new regions became off-limits to all non-X/IF. I'm trying to stay neutral in the finger pointing, blaming, and arguing here and just attempting to show that, to use my own words, both sides can be seen as "right" in their own ways, and in my opinion, keeping up the arguing will ultimately accomplish very little.
shivan	Posted - 2004.05.28 04:34:00 - [371] Yay i got the 24734523849074594821 post on this forumes. oh and "yawn" to much reading, but hey, heres hopeing CA go down in a blaze of erm, was gonna say glory, but i want them to lose. Quote: null --------------------------------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Kerosene	Posted - 2004.05.28 04:42:00 - [372] Reckon I can start doing official press releases? I promise I'll make 'em short.. e.g Kerosene Press Release 0001 We at war with CA. kthxbye Kerosene Press Release 0002 (after 20 pages of spam) I aint arguing, we at war. kthxbye. etc..
Kooky Blonde	Posted - 2004.05.28 05:16:00 - [373] i want to help you xetic!
Morlock	Posted - 2004.05.28 05:52:00 - [374] Quote: Reckon I can start doing official press releases? I promise I'll make 'em short.. e.g Kerosene Press Release 0001 We at war with CA. kthxbye Kerosene Press Release 0002 (after 20 pages of spam) I aint arguing, we at war. kthxbye. etc.. you want people at work to actually have to work?
Deathwing	Posted - 2004.05.28 06:15:00 - [375] so much talking.... so little shooting <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS
Darkrydar	Posted - 2004.05.28 06:20:00 - [376] We shoot them They shoot their mouths off
Ms ArchIQII	Posted - 2004.05.28 06:39:00 - [377] Originally by: Darkrydar We shoot them They shoot their mouths off son, what's yo mouth doin?
Deathwing	Posted - 2004.05.28 06:44:00 - [378] this thread reminds of local chat or something <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2004.05.28 07:14:00 - [379] Quote: Well Xetic changed the NAP, without consulting with us. No one changed anything. Refer to section #6 (arrangement for foreign hunting [NPC]/mining parties in XIF space) and #11 (course of action agreed to by both sides if a loss of a ship occurs). There was NEVER any agreement (in the NAP or at the follow up meetings) to allow CA to fly through our space. We made that very clear, in line with our neutrality policy. Your guy was told to turn back and he refused. He knew he was in the wrong and even asked the XIF pilot to overlook the illegality and let him pass. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
Eenkie	Posted - 2004.05.28 07:18:00 - [380] Originally by: Reverend Necrona IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO Agreed Originally by: Reverend Necrona IT TAKES TWO TO AGREE ON A NAP Again, no argument. Originally by: Reverend Necrona XIRT AGREED ON A NAP THAT LET US THROUGH UR SPACE As a generalisation, probably accurate. There are however, conditions on that travel. Conditions that CA mangement are aware of. A CA member posted this over on the other thread. Quote: The key facts are these: CA and XETIC had a NAP. The body of this NAP was drafted by a XETIC official and catagorically states CA can travel through XETIC if not for war purposes, and can mine and hunt there if in a group of less than 5 (I beleive the less than 5 was apended a month ago or so, ask your leaders). Clearly, Hatepeace was in SA space "for war purposes." How and why and which direction you were going is irrelevant. You KNEW you were not allowed to use Xetic space to conduct sorties into SA territory. Originally by: Reverend Necrona YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE NAP WITHOUT THE OTHER PARTY AGREEING. No-one did. Save us all from further embarrasment and let this one go. Originally by: Reverend Necrona HENCE U BROKE THE NAP. If my reading of your version of the NAP is accurate, you should've known you weren't allowed through. You weren't mining or hunting and made no secret of the fact you has been In SA space on a sortie, that is for war purposes. In the past it hasn't been as strictly policed of course, but it's obvious CA knew it was there. So the lost scorp wasn't the first violation of the NAP. That came 22 seconds later with the war declaration rather than the 24hr ceasefire that Moiran has referred to several times (point 11 in the NAP i believe). Originally by: Reverend Necrona PLEASE ARGUE LOGICALLY AGAINST THIS AND NOT AVOID IT! My work here is done.
deathbyfire	Posted - 2004.05.28 07:31:00 - [381] Edited by: deathbyfire on 28/05/2004 08:23:52 Edited by: deathbyfire on 28/05/2004 08:08:43 Edited by: deathbyfire on 28/05/2004 07:39:22 Originally by: Morlock 6. C4 suddenly become a part of CA again and start stating that they fall under the conditions of the XIF / CA NAP. war is declared, we lose a bunch of ships (which are 100% insured for the most part) and start fighting back. we are getting better every day and the dusty military wings of xif corps finally have something better to do than guard ops and go ratting I have to admit you guys are learning.... But I have a question on were this good fighting opportunities you promised are. This is what I personally feel they have learned in this short time.... 1. How not to engage a fleet 3 ships larger than you. (They run away very nicely even before we get into the system) 2. How to make effective safe spots in every system. (Staggering how money of them warp from a gate to a safe spot) 3. How to run from smaller numbers (I couldn't get 2 inties to fight my cruiser. I didn't care if I lost my ship and the rare mods I had I was just board of chasing after fleets that ran or logged when we showed up and I wanted to fight something. Then they ran from a rifter ?!? yes a rifter). 4. and this weekend I think they will sow us that they know how to effectively use blob war tactics.( which in my opinion is not a way to win a war it just to show that you have a lot of people on at once in one system. but you can not fight with those fleets do to massive lag. a 80 ship fleet will not jump into a system with a 80 ship fleet. the devs would kill us if we did that.) Hopefully this weekend there will be some good battles. if not then I might just head up to stain at least SA gave me 1on2 cruiser battles or 1 intie vs 1 cruiser or 2-3 frigs vs one cruiser battles. The battles were at the end of it no one cared if they lost a ship because it was a good battle. if xetic says they have so money minerals so much isk then give me some fun 2 inties on 1 cruiser battles. I bet I have a lot more to lose than you guys do. and on another note THIS IS IN NO WAY THE THOUGHTS OF THE CA/C4 ALLIANCE. these are my personal thoughts and they should not be used in anyway to make CA/C4 look bad. if they are used in such ways to make CA/C4 look bad (or worce in the case maybe) the people who do are the REAL "evil" people not us. say what bad things about me that you want for I could give a flying **. what you can say about me can not compare to what I can say about myself :P so give it a try make me feel bad about myself I might even give you a sucker as a reward to the person who does it because as we all know that is all little kids really need to make themselves feel important. <edit> ALSO all you carebear mining corps should love CA/C4 right now for we are giving you guys a reason to build . wars stimulate the economy because they are expensive. also miners will never rule eve it is the pvpers that will. miners run and hide fighters stay and fight unless they stand no chance at all 3-1... and in some cases 40-80. and you say 6vs 1 is unfair well good for you we never said it was but if a fleet of 30 ships comes across a alone enemy bs well what can you expect? to let him go by or escort him to his fleet.. NO he will be dead before he knows what happened. the weak fall before the strong and strength is not just measured in size it is also measured in tactics and the will to fight. and in that definition CA/C4 is strong and they were from the beginning and always will be. I have had great respect for CA even when I was part of FA and somewhat fighting them I still help respect for them. even when there was a lot of pirate corps in CA I held respect for what good pilots they were. and now that I am a member of CA I am proud to be able to say I am part of CA. it is time you guys pulled your heads out of your asses. and thanks CA/C4 for making eve entertaining because we are giving everyone in non empire something to shoot at while we wait for Shiva to come around. This is what eve is about fighting over territory not ***ing about the best places to mine and not to mine. ------------------------------- Evolve and adapt or die. The choice is yours to make and no one elses. "Your current safe bounries were once unsafe frontiers"-unknown "Stupid people, can't live with them, and can't kill them because there would only be 1000 people left to play eve."-Me :D
Duke Droklar	Posted - 2004.05.28 07:31:00 - [382] OMFG, how many times does this CA/C4 issue need to be explained? OC founded C4. OC was and is both CA AND C4. We then sponsor C4 corps that make the grade militarily into CA as members. We wont sponsor anyone who doesnt. The C4 reamains a seperate entity because we only want military corps of similar minds. We have certain goals for it that does not include freakin carebear miner whiner corps. Most of the C4 corps have been sponsored into CA and also hold joint citizenship. We fight for CA as well but not for miners. We fight for the warriors of CA. We believe that every corp including mining corps should field their own defnsive forces or PAY the military corps that protect them. Too many corps in every alliance are freeloading mooches that simply mine and whine. Hence the reason for some seperation of the two entities known as C4 and CA. Note: there's nothing wrong with a corp that both mines and fights. But corps that put out a couple fighters and a dozen miners or even worse are the ones I'm referring to. Quote: so much talking.... so little shooting -Deathwing The fact is that Xetic has been completely dominated from the first moment this started and has suffered crushing losses. I would expect them to be begging the other alliances to save them at this point. Note: This isn't about one scorpion being destroyed. This is about the biggest panzy arsed alliance in eve that signs a nap with SA after it attacks them and then thinks they can fire on the alliance that helped them get started and supported them during their fight with SA. As far as how long it took to declare war. The CA is and has always been warriors. It was born and raised in the blood of its enemies. What would you expect? Diplomats to ask "is their anyway we can avoid a war over you destroying a CA vessel?" Bah, our diplomats pack massive firepower and know how to use it to resolve issues such as this.
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.05.28 08:09:00 - [383] @_@ spelling. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
deathbyfire	Posted - 2004.05.28 08:16:00 - [384] Edited by: deathbyfire on 28/05/2004 08:17:14 Originally by: DREAMWORKS @_@ spelling. yeah yeah i know i know it is still read able though ------------------------------- Evolve and adapt or die. The choice is yours to make and no one elses. "Your current safe bounries were once unsafe frontiers"-unknown "Stupid people, can't live with them, and can't kill them because there would only be 1000 people left to play eve."-Me :D
Jadrut	Posted - 2004.05.28 08:32:00 - [385] Originally by: Kooky Blonde i want to help you xetic! really? me too? whats your starsign?
The Ratfink	Posted - 2004.05.28 11:23:00 - [386] Xetic smell cuz they don't shower so we declared war on them
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.05.28 12:59:00 - [387] Originally by: The Ratfink Xetic smell cuz they don't shower so we declared war on them Well not all of us can afford the new shower7000 systems modules for our ships, I need my spare slots for miner II's and cargo expanders!! Die roid, die!! ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
olyyy	Posted - 2004.05.28 13:00:00 - [388] Originally by: Deathwing this thread reminds of local chat or something Hopefully without the tremendous amount of **** talk Deathwing can bring to a local chat Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 )
Gloomash	Posted - 2004.05.28 13:52:00 - [389] Thread reached 20 Pages so keep on flaming and make 25 out of it. ******************* Optimist: Yeeha, we survived. Pesimist: For digging our grave the time will last, at least. ►Alliance flamewar spectator.◄ Motto:Flame it on, I want to see the boards burning.** NMCPPFaSA(Non MainChar Player Post Flame and Spam Alt)
Caanan	Posted - 2004.05.28 14:40:00 - [390] Edited by: Caanan on 28/05/2004 14:43:51 We aren't doing so bad against CA. Last night we took E8 back. Plus, CA has overwhelming numbers. Xetic is trying our hardest, and the fact is that CA has more people late at night (GMT). Almost all of xetic is from Europe and we can't have massive numbers of people at midnight because people have real lives and they need to sleep. At like 10 EST when I play theres like a 3 person gang doing hit and run missions while the whole CA fleet is on a rampage. It really isn't a matter of skill, its a matter who has more stations and pilots. Xetic has some very skilled pilots but there aren't enough when most of CA is online. Another thing that is keeping us behind is because CA took JV1 a few nights back, and that station has been bugged, the corp i am in Liberated Technologies is refusing to fight because we cannot produce ammo. I think that Cmdr Sp0ck and Waagaa Ktlehr deserve major props because these guys are on late at night and they have aided a lot in this war. There are others whos names i forgot as well.

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