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paik Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion 10	Posted - 2012.03.17 21:34:00 - [1] - Quote Dear CSM & CCP; Hello I fly a Titan class vessel in a corporation with many Titan Class vessel's in a Alliance with the most Titan class vessels. My alliance uses Titans more than anyother organization in game. I am advocating the Deletion of all Ttitan Class vessels :FULL STOP:. I am also advocating the deletion of all Titan specific skills from the database ( Racial Titan skill , Doomsday device Operation) :FULL STOP: I am also advocating the removal of all Titan BPO/BPC's and Titan specific component BPO/BPC as well as any and all Doomsday Device BPOS/BPC's :FULL STOP:. In compensation to the effected pilots I am advocating the return of the minerals for the build of the Titan and its Doomsday Device all equipped modules and equipment within the Titan to be moved to JITA 4-4 so effected pilots can easily decide what to do with the assets at that point. Reimburse all skillpoints from the deleted Titan specific skills as has been done in the past with other skill deletions. Make this change at the exact same time compounds are removed from Drone Region NPC's. This will offset the vacuum left from that change and soften the potential flood of minerals to market from Titan deletion with both changes counter-balancing each other ( perhaps not perfectly). After the deletion or at the time of deletion ( If CCP can make it happen "time constraints" ) Introduce a new capital or supercapital platform. This supercapital platform would have specific skills required to pilot it and specific BPO's to produce it . This new platform would have no offensive capability only defensive. Its role would be a support/logistic capital/supercap. It would do things such as create Jumpbridges , Provide Gang bonuses , Have a large corporate hanger and Ship maintnence array to support its fleet. My arguments for this are pretty simple. Changing Titans to do this job is silly as not that many would be required to achieve having enough to support the role. Currently there are more titans in game that what would be needed to outfit all nullsec/lowsec groups with this important role. Furthermore a very large portion of Titan pilots did not train for over a year or spend billions upon billions acquiring a hull or further billions upon billions acquiring modules to outfit a Titan that has been deemed since inception to be a offensive roled hull to have it suddenly changed to a non offensive hull. The Supercarrier will retain the role as the dominant force in Supercapital warfare specializing in laying waste to capital class vessels and sovereignty structures. This is also a stealth buff for Dreadnaughts as they will be used in greater frequency to shoot POS & Sov Structures in the abscense of Titans. I make the assertion with the complete removal of Titans and a addition of Support/Role Supercapital we will see a more dynamic player experience. With more specific roles for players to fill instead of Titans dominating the battlefield of all types. Sincerely, Paik AKA Manfred Sideous
Trusty Jutspezic GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 74	Posted - 2012.03.17 21:44:00 - [2] - Quote paik wrote: Dear CSM & CCP; Hello I fly a Titan class vessel in a corporation with many Titan Class vessel's in a Alliance with the most Titan class vessels. My alliance uses Titans more than anyother organization in game. I am advocating the Deletion of all Ttitan Class vessels :FULL STOP:. I am also advocating the deletion of all Titan specific skills from the database ( Racial Titan skill , Doomsday device Operation) :FULL STOP: I am also advocating the removal of all Titan BPO/BPC's and Titan specific component BPO/BPC as well as any and all Doomsday Device BPOS/BPC's :FULL STOP:. In compensation to the effected pilots I am advocating the return of the minerals for the build of the Titan and its Doomsday Device all equipped modules and equipment within the Titan to be moved to JITA 4-4 so effected pilots can easily decide what to do with the assets at that point. Reimburse all skillpoints from the deleted Titan specific skills as has been done in the past with other skill deletions. Make this change at the exact same time compounds are removed from Drone Region NPC's. This will offset the vacuum left from that change and soften the potential flood of minerals to market from Titan deletion with both changes counter-balancing each other ( perhaps not perfectly). After the deletion or at the time of deletion ( If CCP can make it happen "time constraints" ) Introduce a new capital or supercapital platform. This supercapital platform would have specific skills required to pilot it and specific BPO's to produce it . This new platform would have no offensive capability only defensive. Its role would be a support/logistic capital/supercap. It would do things such as create Jumpbridges , Provide Gang bonuses , Have a large corporate hanger and Ship maintnence array to support its fleet. My arguments for this are pretty simple. Changing Titans to do this job is silly as not that many would be required to achieve having enough to support the role. Currently there are more titans in game that what would be needed to outfit all nullsec/lowsec groups with this important role. Furthermore a very large portion of Titan pilots did not train for over a year or spend billions upon billions acquiring a hull or further billions upon billions acquiring modules to outfit a Titan that has been deemed since inception to be a offensive roled hull to have it suddenly changed to a non offensive hull. The Supercarrier will retain the role as the dominant force in Supercapital warfare specializing in laying waste to capital class vessels and sovereignty structures. This is also a stealth buff for Dreadnaughts as they will be used in greater frequency to shoot POS & Sov Structures in the abscense of Titans. I make the assertion with the complete removal of Titans and a addition of Support/Role Supercapital we will see a more dynamic player experience. With more specific roles for players to fill instead of Titans dominating the battlefield of all types. Sincerely, Paik AKA Manfred Sideous qtiyd
Karadion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 507	Posted - 2012.03.17 21:48:00 - [3] - Quote GoonSwarm Federation will remove all titans free of charge :FULL STOP:
SamGromoff Padded Helmets 23	Posted - 2012.03.17 21:49:00 - [4] - Quote I agree with this idea and would like to subscribe to its newsletter
Lord Thorin Viziam Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2012.03.17 21:58:00 - [5] - Quote paik wrote: Dear CSM & CCP; Hello I fly a Titan class vessel in a corporation with many Titan Class vessel's in a Alliance with the most Titan class vessels. My alliance uses Titans more than anyother organization in game. I am advocating the Deletion of all Ttitan Class vessels :FULL STOP:. I am also advocating the deletion of all Titan specific skills from the database ( Racial Titan skill , Doomsday device Operation) :FULL STOP: I am also advocating the removal of all Titan BPO/BPC's and Titan specific component BPO/BPC as well as any and all Doomsday Device BPOS/BPC's :FULL STOP:. In compensation to the effected pilots I am advocating the return of the minerals for the build of the Titan and its Doomsday Device all equipped modules and equipment within the Titan to be moved to JITA 4-4 so effected pilots can easily decide what to do with the assets at that point. Reimburse all skillpoints from the deleted Titan specific skills as has been done in the past with other skill deletions. Make this change at the exact same time compounds are removed from Drone Region NPC's. This will offset the vacuum left from that change and soften the potential flood of minerals to market from Titan deletion with both changes counter-balancing each other ( perhaps not perfectly). After the deletion or at the time of deletion ( If CCP can make it happen "time constraints" ) Introduce a new capital or supercapital platform. This supercapital platform would have specific skills required to pilot it and specific BPO's to produce it . This new platform would have no offensive capability only defensive. Its role would be a support/logistic capital/supercap. It would do things such as create Jumpbridges , Provide Gang bonuses , Have a large corporate hanger and Ship maintnence array to support its fleet. My arguments for this are pretty simple. Changing Titans to do this job is silly as not that many would be required to achieve having enough to support the role. Currently there are more titans in game that what would be needed to outfit all nullsec/lowsec groups with this important role. Furthermore a very large portion of Titan pilots did not train for over a year or spend billions upon billions acquiring a hull or further billions upon billions acquiring modules to outfit a Titan that has been deemed since inception to be a offensive roled hull to have it suddenly changed to a non offensive hull. The Supercarrier will retain the role as the dominant force in Supercapital warfare specializing in laying waste to capital class vessels and sovereignty structures. This is also a stealth buff for Dreadnaughts as they will be used in greater frequency to shoot POS & Sov Structures in the abscense of Titans. I make the assertion with the complete removal of Titans and a addition of Support/Role Supercapital we will see a more dynamic player experience. With more specific roles for players to fill instead of Titans dominating the battlefield of all types. Sincerely, Paik AKA Manfred Sideous +1
Raivi Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 72	Posted - 2012.03.17 22:02:00 - [6] - Quote paik wrote: Dear CSM & CCP; Hello I fly a Titan class vessel in a corporation with many Titan Class vessel's in a Alliance with the most Titan class vessels. My alliance uses Titans more than anyother organization in game. I am advocating the Deletion of all Ttitan Class vessels :FULL STOP:. I am also advocating the deletion of all Titan specific skills from the database ( Racial Titan skill , Doomsday device Operation) :FULL STOP: I am also advocating the removal of all Titan BPO/BPC's and Titan specific component BPO/BPC as well as any and all Doomsday Device BPOS/BPC's :FULL STOP:. In compensation to the effected pilots I am advocating the return of the minerals for the build of the Titan and its Doomsday Device all equipped modules and equipment within the Titan to be moved to JITA 4-4 so effected pilots can easily decide what to do with the assets at that point. Reimburse all skillpoints from the deleted Titan specific skills as has been done in the past with other skill deletions. Make this change at the exact same time compounds are removed from Drone Region NPC's. This will offset the vacuum left from that change and soften the potential flood of minerals to market from Titan deletion with both changes counter-balancing each other ( perhaps not perfectly). After the deletion or at the time of deletion ( If CCP can make it happen "time constraints" ) Introduce a new capital or supercapital platform. This supercapital platform would have specific skills required to pilot it and specific BPO's to produce it . This new platform would have no offensive capability only defensive. Its role would be a support/logistic capital/supercap. It would do things such as create Jumpbridges , Provide Gang bonuses , Have a large corporate hanger and Ship maintnence array to support its fleet. My arguments for this are pretty simple. Changing Titans to do this job is silly as not that many would be required to achieve having enough to support the role. Currently there are more titans in game that what would be needed to outfit all nullsec/lowsec groups with this important role. Furthermore a very large portion of Titan pilots did not train for over a year or spend billions upon billions acquiring a hull or further billions upon billions acquiring modules to outfit a Titan that has been deemed since inception to be a offensive roled hull to have it suddenly changed to a non offensive hull. The Supercarrier will retain the role as the dominant force in Supercapital warfare specializing in laying waste to capital class vessels and sovereignty structures. This is also a stealth buff for Dreadnaughts as they will be used in greater frequency to shoot POS & Sov Structures in the abscense of Titans. I make the assertion with the complete removal of Titans and a addition of Support/Role Supercapital we will see a more dynamic player experience. With more specific roles for players to fill instead of Titans dominating the battlefield of all types. Sincerely, Paik AKA Manfred Sideous May actually be the best solution long-term. The flood of minerals would be the big problem, but it might be something that needs to be done sooner or later.
Lord Thorin Viziam Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2012.03.17 22:03:00 - [7] - Quote Raivi wrote: paik wrote: Dear CSM & CCP; Hello I fly a Titan class vessel in a corporation with many Titan Class vessel's in a Alliance with the most Titan class vessels. My alliance uses Titans more than anyother organization in game. I am advocating the Deletion of all Ttitan Class vessels :FULL STOP:. I am also advocating the deletion of all Titan specific skills from the database ( Racial Titan skill , Doomsday device Operation) :FULL STOP: I am also advocating the removal of all Titan BPO/BPC's and Titan specific component BPO/BPC as well as any and all Doomsday Device BPOS/BPC's :FULL STOP:. In compensation to the effected pilots I am advocating the return of the minerals for the build of the Titan and its Doomsday Device all equipped modules and equipment within the Titan to be moved to JITA 4-4 so effected pilots can easily decide what to do with the assets at that point. Reimburse all skillpoints from the deleted Titan specific skills as has been done in the past with other skill deletions. Make this change at the exact same time compounds are removed from Drone Region NPC's. This will offset the vacuum left from that change and soften the potential flood of minerals to market from Titan deletion with both changes counter-balancing each other ( perhaps not perfectly). After the deletion or at the time of deletion ( If CCP can make it happen "time constraints" ) Introduce a new capital or supercapital platform. This supercapital platform would have specific skills required to pilot it and specific BPO's to produce it . This new platform would have no offensive capability only defensive. Its role would be a support/logistic capital/supercap. It would do things such as create Jumpbridges , Provide Gang bonuses , Have a large corporate hanger and Ship maintnence array to support its fleet. My arguments for this are pretty simple. Changing Titans to do this job is silly as not that many would be required to achieve having enough to support the role. Currently there are more titans in game that what would be needed to outfit all nullsec/lowsec groups with this important role. Furthermore a very large portion of Titan pilots did not train for over a year or spend billions upon billions acquiring a hull or further billions upon billions acquiring modules to outfit a Titan that has been deemed since inception to be a offensive roled hull to have it suddenly changed to a non offensive hull. The Supercarrier will retain the role as the dominant force in Supercapital warfare specializing in laying waste to capital class vessels and sovereignty structures. This is also a stealth buff for Dreadnaughts as they will be used in greater frequency to shoot POS & Sov Structures in the abscense of Titans. I make the assertion with the complete removal of Titans and a addition of Support/Role Supercapital we will see a more dynamic player experience. With more specific roles for players to fill instead of Titans dominating the battlefield of all types. Sincerely, Paik AKA Manfred Sideous May actually be the best solution long-term. The flood of minerals would be the big problem, but it might be something that needs to be done sooner or later. The flood of minerals would be a temporary problem, also it would be the end game considering CCP don't have a clue what to do with titans..
mxzf Shovel Bros 996	Posted - 2012.03.17 22:04:00 - [8] - Quote I see what you did there. Posting in a stealth "give me my ISK and SP back because you're nerfing Titans to no longer be solo-pwn-mobiles" thread.
paik Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion 18	Posted - 2012.03.17 22:11:00 - [9] - Quote mxzf wrote: I see what you did there. Posting in a stealth "give me my ISK and SP back because you're nerfing Titans to no longer be solo-pwn-mobiles" thread. Yeah pretty much as the ship since its inception was based around its tenacity and devastating offensive capability as well as logistical support. Taking away a role that was the driving force for majority of players that sought them out and skilled directly for them is unfair actually highly unfair. Instead do the sensible should have been done years ago and remove them and introduce something better.
testobjekt Goonswarm Federation Human Resources Goonswarm Federation 140	Posted - 2012.03.17 22:22:00 - [10] - Quote paik wrote: mxzf wrote: I see what you did there. Posting in a stealth "give me my ISK and SP back because you're nerfing Titans to no longer be solo-pwn-mobiles" thread. Yeah pretty much as the ship since its inception was based around its tenacity and devastating offensive capability as well as logistical support. Taking away a role that was the driving force for majority of players that sought them out and skilled directly for them is unfair actually highly unfair. Instead do the sensible should have been done years ago and remove them and introduce something better. It stil is an offensive weapon just not against subcaps. If this makes you sad, CCP does not care.
Kayl Breinhar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2012.03.17 22:24:00 - [11] - Quote paik wrote: mxzf wrote: I see what you did there. Posting in a stealth "give me my ISK and SP back because you're nerfing Titans to no longer be solo-pwn-mobiles" thread. Yeah pretty much as the ship since its inception was based around its tenacity and devastating offensive capability as well as logistical support. Taking away a role that was the driving force for majority of players that sought them out and skilled directly for them is unfair actually highly unfair. Instead do the sensible should have been done years ago and remove them and introduce something better. To be fair, that's what you and PL consider them to be. Everyone else, at least after remote doomsdays were removed, has more or less been using them primarily for logistics.
India99 Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 5	Posted - 2012.03.17 22:24:00 - [12] - Quote sounds like a fair deal to me, Titan owners wouldnt get screwed that much by wasting that much ISK/SP for a ship that they never signed in for and Gewnies would save some tears for something else to cry over. EVERYONE WILL BE A WINNER
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 235	Posted - 2012.03.17 22:30:00 - [13] - Quote Kayl Breinhar wrote: paik wrote: Yeah pretty much as the ship since its inception was based around its tenacity and devastating offensive capability as well as logistical support. Taking away a role that was the driving force for majority of players that sought them out and skilled directly for them is unfair actually highly unfair. Instead do the sensible should have been done years ago and remove them and introduce something better. To be fair, that's what you and PL consider them to be. Everyone else, at least after remote doomsdays were removed, has more or less been using them primarily for logistics. They give nice bonuses too. Of course having 30 titans doesn't give you 30x the bonuses, but hey. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 327	Posted - 2012.03.17 23:08:00 - [14] - Quote I've got a better idea, why don't CCP just make large fleets of titans extremely undesirable, as they should have been all along. That way the self entitled little crybabies that fly them will make a vast mountain of hilarious spergy rant threads which the rest of us can take great pleasure in, then unsub, and the titans will be removed from the game, without the massive influx of minerals caused by ship recycling, or the rampant FOTM-chasing that a skillpoint re-allocation would lead to. Seems like a win-win to me. ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
Sephiroth CloneIIV Vitriol Ventures BLACK-MARK 61	Posted - 2012.03.18 03:48:00 - [15] - Quote Modularity is for nich ships, keep titans, Big Fracking Ships that can do allot of things. With current change by CCP that will diminish them as being subcap pasters in solo fleets. Though.... big super ship should have some thing it does that other ships can't do. As I suggested before, allow capitals to dock inside them, being that they are so huge a fleet should be able to fit inside them and or fit. that in addition to its titan bridge, and a huge corp hanger (freighter size) would give it a power for assisting fleets. Along with fleet bonus found on no other ships. Not a solo ship I win button, but a big boast to top the balance.
Mama Durka Cult of the Crayon 0	Posted - 2012.03.18 05:58:00 - [16] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: I've got a better idea, why don't CCP just make large fleets of titans extremely undesirable, as they should have been all along That way the self entitled little crybabies that fly them will make a vast mountain of hilarious spergy rant threads which the rest of us can take great pleasure in, then unsub, and the titans will be effectively removed from the game, without the massive influx of minerals caused by ship recycling, or the rampant FOTM-chasing that a skillpoint re-allocation would lead to Seems like a win-win-win to me. It figures that a Goon would find fault in any solution that could actually help the game rather than specifically help goons, then accuse others of being cry-babies. Bit rich isn't it, seeing as goons cried the loudest to CCP because those big bad titans that naughty PL fly somehow managed to shoot double LSE drakes with microwarp drives?! HOW DARE THEY SHOOT GOONS! I'm surprised you guys didn't also demand the sig radius on drakes be lowered so that nobody can shoot back at you. I mean hey, there's only 7000 or so goons (clearly you are outnumbered so maybe you should have also asked CCP for a nerf to alliance sizes while they were at it (for every alliance except goons of course, since you are all so "Special" - note the capital "S" there...yes, the big red bus will be along to pick you up shortly). Stop being a bunch of hypocrites and start using what little brain power you actually have and try seeing this from the perspective of ALL eve players So onto the serious part, yes this is a solution, no I don't see it as being the only solution but you all have to admit it would resolve the age old question once and for all: is the problem titans themselves, or is the real problem the lack creativity that everyone else seems to have when trying to come up with a counter to them? I don't actually think the problems are titans, I think the problem is 2 parts politics, 1 part CCP not having a clue about what they were doing introducing them in the first place. Seems almost like introducing titans was done similar to how the technetium changes were made (e.g. lets try this and see what happens...and if anything bad happens then we can always say "it's on our roadmap of things to fix"). The issues with titans are not much different from a lot of other ships, it happened with battleships blobbing up and shooting everything else smaller, happened with super carriers doing much the same, and so on. Regardless of ship type, what makes the difference is this: someone who is better organised than you (and not necessarily bigger) is very likely going to come at you and if you aren't ready or aren't well organised, then you'll probably die. It's really that simple. How about we just remove every ship type higher than a BS? That way goons can still keep up with their jihadi behaviour toward ice miners (still gonna need isotopes for fuel blocks so plenty of room for market manipulation) and they won't have to spend so much time whinging about capitals (I'm sure there will be something else they'll find to complain about though).
sodney Radioactive Crew 0	Posted - 2012.03.18 07:45:00 - [17] - Quote testobjekt wrote: It stil is an offensive weapon just not against subcaps. If this makes you sad, CCP does not care. while reading all the forum-signatures of your Alliance mates about this topic , I actually do get the impression that CCP does care if you cry long enough.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 329	Posted - 2012.03.18 09:16:00 - [18] - Quote Mama Durka wrote: CCP not having a clue about what they were doing introducing them in the first place. Seems almost like introducing titans was done similar to how the technetium changes were made (e.g. lets try this and see what happens...and if anything bad happens then we can always say "it's on our roadmap of things to fix"). Your angry keyboard flailing about Evil Goony Dev Manipulation aside, this bit I completely agree with. CCP never had a clear vision for what Titans should do in the game since they were first introduced, and showed a complete lack of understanding as to how introducing them would affect the game. If CCP had been running itself like a proper grownup company at the time, rather than throwing new ships at the game with a design brief of "lets make something KOOL AND AWESOME with a lot of wildly diverse abilities, but its ok because at 40bn per hull only the biggest alliances will be able to afford even one or two, there's no way they'll ever be mass-produced or thrown around casually!", we wouldn't be in this mess. Thankfully, this tracking nerf seems to be step one of CCP righting its long-standing mistakes and going through the process of giving Titans a clear defined role. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.
Jean McBean Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.03.18 10:33:00 - [19] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Thankfully, this tracking nerf seems to be step one of CCP righting its long-standing mistakes and going through the process of giving Titans a clear defined role. not sure if you are trolling or get what you are actually saying, but where are Titans in the process of getting a "clear" defined role, when your JUST reducing their abilities? besides the jump portal (whohoo 100b PVP ship just to bridge other ships aorund) there is literaly no purpose you cant just replace a Titan with a different type of ship. T3's are mostly prefered as a Bonus supplier already, since they are way cheaper, easier to move and can give different,mostly more usefull Boni. Dreads and SC's do both better DPS anyway. So would you please explain, why you think this is an improvment for defining the role of Titans?
Disgustin Justin PAILkidz 0	Posted - 2012.03.18 12:51:00 - [20] - Quote This is easy... If Titans cant shoot subcaps then subcaps shouldent be able to lock Titans (exept Hics of course) Then, if you want to kill a Titan you bring your own capitals, ships a Titan still can kill. If you want to kill a Titan you should risk getting raped in your own super capitals and not lean back looking smug orbiting in your cheap ass Drake and think you are good at this game.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 330	Posted - 2012.03.18 17:04:00 - [21] - Quote Jean McBean wrote: Scatim Helicon wrote: Thankfully, this tracking nerf seems to be step one of CCP righting its long-standing mistakes and going through the process of giving Titans a clear defined role. not sure if you are trolling or get what you are actually saying, but where are Titans in the process of getting a "clear" defined role, when your JUST reducing their abilities? besides the jump portal (whohoo 100b PVP ship just to bridge other ships aorund) there is literaly no purpose you cant just replace a Titan with a different type of ship. T3's are mostly prefered as a Bonus supplier already, since they are way cheaper, easier to move and can give different,mostly more usefull Boni. Dreads and SC's do both better DPS anyway. So would you please explain, why you think this is an improvment for defining the role of Titans? Its almost like you didn't read the tracking nerf thread or something. CCP Greyscale wrote: We're not happy with the effectiveness of large groups of titans against subcapital ships, so we're making some adjustments to titans and to XL turrets. This is a quick, surgical adjustment to solve a specific issue we have identified. It's not a general titan balance pass, and we don't consider titans "done" after this change. Titans will require significant further changes, and probably an overall adjustment in role, before they're in a place where we're really happy with them. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.
Ivanda Nothabeer Frontier Technologies 0	Posted - 2012.03.18 18:18:00 - [22] - Quote By CCP's own admission the tracking Nerf is a quick fix because they can't decide on a role for Titans. It's almost like you didnt read the Dev Blog. Anyway - Titan's were always meant to be very rare in Eve. Frankly, deleting all existing titans, compensating players by returning some Titan specific skillpoints and some portion of their value in minerals is a pretty good idea. If you still think there should be Titans in Eve - and tbh, I think there should be a ship class called "Titan" - then give us a new, properly designed and properly balanced Ship that fills a role that doent completely unbalance large scale warfare. Most importantly, remove BPO's and tightly control the supply of BPC's to limit the number of those ships
paik Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion 19	Posted - 2012.03.18 19:00:00 - [23] - Quote The main problem I see is the Greyscale nerf realistically reduces DPS versus subcaps by 25%. Subcaps will still be blapped in short order. This is a useless slap in the face in a long list of useless slaps in the face against Titans. Every Titan nerf the "Anti-Titan" parties gather in celebrations and countdowns to nerf day. To only find out soon later that they are still getting ownzoned by Titans. If you read Seleene's Blog(My CEO GÖÑ Vote Seleene) you will see where the problem with this and pervious nerfs are. Basically CCP has done this over and over through the years with Titans "kick the can down the road". However when they do so the Titan falls down the list of priorities on the backlog allowing them to divert attention to higher priorities. Instead of repeating this scenario again for the 5th time lets just do the sensible thing. Delete Titan's as they exist now and everything Titan involved. Problem solved! Then CCP can take all the lessons learned over the years and design a new Titan that better fits into Eve. At that point the players will decide if they want to skill for or pilot the new Titan. Its really that simple. Now I get it the "anti-titan" crowd wants vengence they are unhappy to have been subjugated to Titan blapping. They would like nothing more than to see the pilots punished. But I say punished for what? Titan pilots used the ship that CCP put into the game. No matter what CCP's best intentions were reality is the Titan has been a subcap smashing machine since introduction and will continue to be post Greyscale nerf. Deleting Titans is a victory for everyone and a damn sure sight better than "Kicking the can down the road" again for the 5th time with a open-ended statement "We will revisit these later". We all have seen what that means. 18 month anyone? As a titan pilot I can live with blapping with 25% less dps for another 18 months. Can you? Delete Titans Seleene's Blog http://seleenes-sandbox.blogspot.com/2012/03/balancing-costs-benefits.html
paik Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion 19	Posted - 2012.03.18 19:01:00 - [24] - Quote There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode
Tiger's Spirit Troll Hunters INC. 59	Posted - 2012.03.19 07:06:00 - [25] - Quote paik wrote: Dear CSM & CCP; Hello I fly a Titan class vessel in a corporation with many Titan Class vessel's in a Alliance with the most Titan class vessels. My alliance uses Titans more than anyother organization in game You forget to tell to us, Your alliance bought for RMT so many titan from Morsus Mihi when they leaving this game. So, before you ask titan delete, you need to ask delete those pilot accounts too from CCP.
India99 Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 6	Posted - 2012.03.19 10:18:00 - [26] - Quote Tiger's Spirit wrote: You forgot to tell to us, Your alliance bought for RMT so many titan from Morsus Mihi when they leaving this game. So, before you ask titan delete, you need to ask delete those pilot accounts too from CCP. you forgot to learn the language, that your accusing ppl stupid untruths with, mate
Tiger's Spirit Troll Hunters INC. 59	Posted - 2012.03.19 11:03:00 - [27] - Quote India99 wrote: Tiger's Spirit wrote: You forgot to tell to us, Your alliance bought for RMT so many titan from Morsus Mihi when they leaving this game. So, before you ask titan delete, you need to ask delete those pilot accounts too from CCP. you forgot to learn the language, that your accusing ppl stupid untruths with, mate Tipical damage control. My language is the main problem, not the PL's RMT supcap transfer from MM.
India99 Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 6	Posted - 2012.03.19 11:17:00 - [28] - Quote Tiger's Spirit wrote: [quote=India99][quote=Tiger's Spirit] Tipical damage control. My language is the main problem, not the PL's RMT supcap transfer from MM. your questionable reading skills might actually be the reason why you think PL has to RMT at all. Have you checked the Technetium prices recently?
Tiger's Spirit Troll Hunters INC. 59	Posted - 2012.03.19 11:48:00 - [29] - Quote India99 wrote: Tiger's Spirit wrote: [quote=India99][quote=Tiger's Spirit] Tipical damage control. My language is the main problem, not the PL's RMT supcap transfer from MM. your questionable reading skills might actually be the reason why you think PL has to RMT at all. Have you checked the Technetium prices recently? Because i know, who sold those ships for to PL and Raiden. Maybe it's time to check for the CCP those titans, how they transfered without ISK and without build to new proprietors.
knobber Jobbler Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn 64	Posted - 2012.03.19 16:13:00 - [30] - Quote Raivi wrote: [quote=paik]Dear CSM & CCP; May actually be the best solution long-term. The flood of minerals would be the big problem, but it might be something that needs to be done sooner or later. There's 400 Titans give or take a few, that in minerals is a fair amount but they need to get to market and back into the chain. I bet you'd notice a slight change in the market in some bits of null for a very short while then nothing. CCP might lose 400 subscriptions, big deal, thats 0.001% of the EVE player base. Likely they'll just all become supercap pilots and the minerals will be used to build supercaps. Then supercaps will be removed.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1284	Posted - 2012.03.19 16:36:00 - [31] - Quote -1 Counter proposal: Delete all sub capital ships, equipment, skills, BPOs and BPCs. Solve the real hobo blob. Now that would be win sauce.
Plaude Pollard Aliastra Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2012.03.19 19:30:00 - [32] - Quote Ivanda Nothabeer wrote: By CCP's own admission the tracking Nerf is a quick fix because they can't decide on a role for Titans. It's almost like they dont read their own dev blogs. (and learn nothing from their past mistakes) How about giving them some sort of "Flagship" status? Titans aren't meant to be something anyone can just fly. They're meant to be rare, valuable ships, that gives the pilot some kind of status. Strip it of its guns, let it remain able to use all the fancy Titan-only modules and give it superior Fleet Bonuses, while keeping it too expensive to just bring to every battle. This might actually give them the Flag-ship status I always imagined Titans having, instead of the Slightly Bigger Frigate-status they have now. Titans weren't meant to be something everyone could just get. In fact, removing all current Titans, reimbursing the SP and adding a Flagship-class with the same names and models as the current Titans might be the right way to go. Or even better: remove all Titan-Blueprints, but let the current Titans stay. When they're gone, there will be no replacing them, which will lead to them eventually getting some status, when enough are killed by smaller, cooler ships. I'm not saying this is the only way to go, but it's definitely one way.
TheOnePunisher High Flyers RED.OverLord 0	Posted - 2012.03.19 21:01:00 - [33] - Quote PL Crying about titan nerfs, GLORIOUS! Please post more PL, your tears taste as sweet as a rare wine! OM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM .........................
Yamarash 13th Squadron Cascade Imminent 0	Posted - 2012.03.19 21:36:00 - [34] - Quote Ok so. After the upconing and **** TITANS nerf 1) CANNOT SHOOT SUB-CAPITALS (why sub-capitals will able to shoot titans) 2) ALONE CAN ONLY KILL CARRIERS WITH DOOMSDAY. (and maybe dreads). SO DOOMSDAY DEVICE IS NOW UNUSEFUL 3) TITAN WILL TAKE A LOT OF TIME TARGETTING EVEN CAPITALS (5mm scan resolution) ITS A JOKE 4) TITANS DONT RECEIVE AT LEAST AN EXTRA BONUS LIKE MORE DAMAGE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. **. ITS A 70-90 BILLION STUFF. WHAT IS THE ADD VALUE TO HAVE A TITAN??? BASICLY CCP IS LEAVING A VESSEL ONLY TO SHOOT POS'es and DO BRIDGES. LOL WE NEED TO EXPEND 90B TO DO BRIDGES CCP. CCP are you really thinking what are you doing ???? i think nope. CSM guys are not doing his jobs for whole eve community. thats is a clear statement. P.D: sry for caps but for god sake this the more ridiculous nerf i ever saw in EVE History. This kind of decisions are killing the game or fastening his inevitable death.
Jean McBean Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.03.19 22:10:00 - [35] - Quote knobber Jobbler wrote: There's 400 Titans give or take a few,. lol... maybe you should not participate in this discussion
HELIC0N ONE GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 181	Posted - 2012.03.19 22:21:00 - [36] - Quote TheOnePunisher wrote: PL Crying about titan nerfs, GLORIOUS! Please post more PL, your tears taste as sweet as a rare wine! OM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM ......................... Are you coming to Fanfest to beat up goons this year?
Josef Huffenpuff H A V O C 8	Posted - 2012.03.20 04:02:00 - [37] - Quote Plaude Pollard wrote: too expensive to just bring to every battle. Define "too expensive". When someone drops 20 titans on you, that's well over a Trillion ISK. You simply cannot "balance" titans by making them too expensive - That was just one of the fundamentally flawed assumptions made when titans were introduced. But yeah, deleting existing Titans and replacing with something truly rare and impressive again gets a +1 from me. Keeping the existing names and models makes sense.
King Rothgar Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 230	Posted - 2012.03.20 05:26:00 - [38] - Quote +1 to deleting them and trying again. Same should be done with SC's in all honesty. Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7
Kemal Ataturk Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.03.20 11:50:00 - [39] - Quote Why not introduce something new. Make Titans Corpvessels, operated by more users, like a Pos. One guy fly it, next guy fires frontguns, next guy rear guns etc. It would advance the game in a new experience of battle. Instead of nerfing it or deleting it transform it to a multiuser plattform.
Arduemont Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable. 14	Posted - 2012.03.20 15:30:00 - [40] - Quote Delete Titans? Way to throw the baby out with the bath water. I cant understand why so many people think that's a good idea. Just fix them ffs. Josef Huffenpuff wrote: Keeping the existing names and models makes sense. By that ^^ I presume you mean... not deleting them. /endminirant
Rico Minali Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension 358	Posted - 2012.03.20 16:07:00 - [41] - Quote Yes. This would actually be the best way to handle Titans, the people crying about the nerf would be reimbursed adn could respend however they want. The people crying for the nerf get rid of their source of unhappiness. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Sith8 Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities 0	Posted - 2012.03.20 16:21:00 - [42] - Quote Bahahaha .... so because your shiny I-WIN button is being nerfed it should be deleted from the game altogether? Don-¦t be such a douche Manny and go back to playing Eve the hard way like most of us do.
Tiger's Spirit Troll Hunters INC. 59	Posted - 2012.03.20 16:38:00 - [43] - Quote Tiger's Spirit wrote: India99 wrote: Tiger's Spirit wrote: [quote=India99][quote=Tiger's Spirit] Tipical damage control. My language is the main problem, not the PL's RMT supcap transfer from MM. your questionable reading skills might actually be the reason why you think PL has to RMT at all. Have you checked the Technetium prices recently? Because i know, who sold those ships for to PL and Raiden. Maybe it's time to check for the CCP those titans, how they transfered without ISK and without build to new proprietors. Everyone feel the silence of PL crying girls after this post ? :D
paik Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion 27	Posted - 2012.03.20 16:53:00 - [44] - Quote Sith8 wrote: Bahahaha .... so because your shiny I-WIN button is being nerfed it should be deleted from the game altogether? Don-¦t be such a douche Manny and go back to playing Eve the hard way like most of us do. Sith8 the Greyscale changes nothing really other than the fact that Titans wont blap roaming gangs. In fleet fights titans will still be blapping happily which makes the change pointless. However what the change does accomplish is it lowers the priority for CCP allowing Titan re-design to fall down into the backlog. Pushing real development further away this is not speculation its how CCP does things. So rather than a pointless nerf that nobody is happy with just delete Titans. CCP when they have time can then reinvent them and introduce them again properly. This solution everyone wins instead of the current status quo where everyone losses and then we wait ~18 months for CCP to get back to the subject. CCP has other things they are working on in Inferno and obviously a re-design of Titans is not on the table . Clearly thats what predicated this bandaid nerf except its a bad bandaid as it doesnt actually achieve the goals of the nerf. I mean you realize were talking about CCP here correct? In regard to the comment you made directed at me. I have fun fighting in Eve in no matter what ship class. My alliance has some new fleet concepts that makes fighting with titans seem boring. SOLVE THE PROBLEM INSTEAD OF BANDAIDS
Sith8 Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities 0	Posted - 2012.03.20 18:07:00 - [45] - Quote paik wrote: Sith8 wrote: Bahahaha .... so because your shiny I-WIN button is being nerfed it should be deleted from the game altogether? Don-¦t be such a douche Manny and go back to playing Eve the hard way like most of us do. Sith8 the Greyscale changes nothing really other than the fact that Titans wont blap roaming gangs. In fleet fights titans will still be blapping happily which makes the change pointless. However what the change does accomplish is it lowers the priority for CCP allowing Titan re-design to fall down into the backlog. Pushing real development further away this is not speculation its how CCP does things. So rather than a pointless nerf that nobody is happy with just delete Titans. CCP when they have time can then reinvent them and introduce them again properly. This solution everyone wins instead of the current status quo where everyone losses and then we wait ~18 months for CCP to get back to the subject. CCP has other things they are working on in Inferno and obviously a re-design of Titans is not on the table . Clearly thats what predicated this bandaid nerf except its a bad bandaid as it doesnt actually achieve the goals of the nerf. I mean you realize were talking about CCP here correct? In regard to the comment you made directed at me. I have fun fighting in Eve in no matter what ship class. My alliance has some new fleet concepts that makes fighting with titans seem boring. SOLVE THE PROBLEM INSTEAD OF BANDAIDS I and most people I know are p. darn happy with the nerf and do not agree with you that it-¦s pointless, on the contrary. Perhaps that-¦s the complete opposite to Pee L. But I-¦ll give you that no one does crying better than you guys, or at least you are the first to demand that a whole ship class with all class specific modules and skills to be deleted from the game because you can-¦t play with it like you used to. Deal with it Pee L. :smug:
Smiling Menace Star Nebulae Holdings Inc. 212	Posted - 2012.03.21 14:58:00 - [46] - Quote This is cross-posting from the Ship & Modules forum about the Titan nerf and CCP doesn't like that. Not like PL would bend the rules/mechanics to suit themselves.
Joyelle State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.03.21 18:18:00 - [47] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: I've got a better idea, why don't CCP just make large fleets of titans extremely undesirable, as they should have been all along. That way the self entitled little crybabies that fly them will make a vast mountain of hilarious spergy rant threads which the rest of us can take great pleasure in, then unsub, and the titans will be effectively removed from the game, without the massive influx of minerals caused by ship recycling, or the rampant FOTM-chasing that a skillpoint re-allocation would lead to. Seems like a win-win-win to me. It doesn't make the slightest sense no matter how you look at it because limiting the amount of titans in a fleet or in a system will still result in an ultimatum. It's either you get as much titans into the system first or create multiple fleets. You can also decide to engage with 300 alpha maels...get owned, then proceed to whine on you tube.
Argyle Jones Lone Star Exploration Lone Star Partners 7	Posted - 2012.03.22 00:09:00 - [48] - Quote paik wrote: mxzf wrote: I see what you did there. Posting in a stealth "give me my ISK and SP back because you're nerfing Titans to no longer be solo-pwn-mobiles" thread. Yeah pretty much as the ship since its inception was based around its tenacity and devastating offensive capability as well as logistical support. Taking away a role that was the driving force for majority of players that sought them out and skilled directly for them is unfair actually highly unfair. Instead do the sensible should have been done years ago and remove them and introduce something better. I'm afraid that's not very likely to happen. CCP has never given anything back when they nerfed, and they shouldn't start now, just because titans are involved. I remember spending billions of ISK on a super sexy nano machariel, training all lvl 5 navigation skills, etc, just so I could be the coolest and fastest nano pilot out there, then cameth the nano-nerf and suddenly my expensive ship, modules and high-grade snake set were worth one tenth of their previous value. It's the cost we pay for humping the bandwagon. So, take your nerf just like everybody else, adapt to the new situation and add a +1 to your bittervet status. /Yargle
wolftkilla OMGWTFBBQTIME I Know Right 0	Posted - 2012.03.22 13:38:00 - [49] - Quote +1
The Hamilton Definitive Exploration and Excavations The Watchmen. 11	Posted - 2012.03.22 17:30:00 - [50] - Quote Here's a thought. If you don't want em. Don't make em. Sort of an alliance peace treaty for all null sec alliances. As an extra bonus CCP would be astounded. If you can't do this then how can you justify deleting them. Just cos people can make mustard gas doesn't mean they all use it.

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