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Paladin, Golem, or Nightmare?

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Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.22 12:52:00 - [1] Assuming you had the skills for all three (piloting, fitting, and weapon) at exactly equal levels, but the isk to only purchase one - would you choose a Paladin, Golem, or Nightmare for missioning? ----------------
Spider Silva	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:05:00 - [2] nightmare all the way, superb damage with tech 2 tachyons and faction heat sinks, you also have loads of meds lots for a great shield tank. Amarr navy multifreq crystals hit out to 5okm with my skills. its the best pve ship imo having flown a cnr and a golem for a while, however i havent tried a paladin so that may be almost as good.
Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:06:00 - [3] Paladin for only Amarr missions Nightmare for mostly Amarr missions and the option to do something fun for a change Golem for missions in general
Spider Silva	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:12:00 - [4] cnr is better than golem because of the rate of fire bonus
Galliana Foresta Gallente Fleeting Moments of Insanity	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:30:00 - [5] Originally by: Spider Silva cnr is better than golem because of the rate of fire bonus And sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cos I wouldn't eat the filthy mother **er. Show me where he asked: "Which is better - Paladin, Nightmare, Golem or CNR**?" HIRING\|KB\|PRESS
Endless Subversion The Accursed	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:33:00 - [6] Originally by: Galliana Foresta Originally by: Spider Silva cnr is better than golem because of the rate of fire bonus And sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cos I wouldn't eat the filthy mother **er. Show me where he asked: "Which is better - Paladin, Nightmare, Golem or CNR**?" Owned. Golem, torps + dmg type of your choice plus utility highs, pwnsauce cargo bay and pimp numbers without needing pimp gear.
Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Spider Silva cnr is better than golem because of the rate of fire bonus Have fun actually fitting 7 siege launchers on that CNR....
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Galliana Foresta Originally by: Spider Silva cnr is better than golem because of the rate of fire bonus And sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cos I wouldn't eat the filthy mother **er. Show me where he asked: "Which is better - Paladin, Nightmare, Golem or CNR**?" My new hero. ----------------
Spider Silva	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:45:00 - [9] sorry for mentioning the CNR guys, i hope one day you can all find it in your hearts to forgive me.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:49:00 - [10] Originally by: Spider Silva sorry for mentioning the CNR guys, i hope one day you can all find it in your hearts to forgive me. What makes you think we have hearts? - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:50:00 - [11] Originally by: Spider Silva sorry for mentioning the CNR guys, i hope one day you can all find it in your hearts to forgive me. CNR is fine in the damage dept, but it's hell to fit t2 siege on it and still maintain anything but a cardboard tank. With a Golem, you can fit t2 gear, have a strong tank, t2 launchers, range rigs, yada yada. It's 10x easier to fit with torps.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:53:00 - [12] Paladin: Effective at amarr missions, good dps at good range (700 dps out to 40km+, 500 or so out to 100, then lock range ends) Golem: Effective at all missions equally, but not as good as the paladin for amarr missions. Prone to suicide ganking. Nightmare: Lolfaction ship, tracking+good damage bonus. (assuming you can fly the pally/golem, you have level 5...) Shieldtank may or may not require faction gear, not tried... Effective for amarr missions, rapidly loses effectiveness for other missions. If you run amarr missions, buy a nightmare or paladin, whichever you like better (they both are about the same to me). If you run anything else, buy a golem.
Wannabehero Caldari Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:56:00 - [13] Others have said it before, I and will say it again for your benefit... The Nightmare is freakin' vertical It wins on pure sexiness -- Don't harsh my mellow
Taex	Posted - 2008.07.22 15:06:00 - [14] Originally by: Boz Well CNR is fine in the damage dept, but it's hell to fit t2 siege on it and still maintain anything but a cardboard tank. With a Golem, you can fit t2 gear, have a strong tank, t2 launchers, range rigs, yada yada. It's 10x easier to fit with torps. Seconded. Here's how I roll: [Golem, Current] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Power Diagnostic System II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron 100MN Afterburner II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Invulnerability Field II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Salvager I Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Gypsy KMB-50, Deadeye ZML100, Deadeye ZMM100 The beauty of it isn't in the specific fit, but what you can do with it if you absolutely have to. It'll sustain 384 DPS of rainbow damage while slinging T1 torps to 38km (without missile projection V), javelins to 57.9km, 800 DPS with t1 torps, and can burn up to those rats that like to orbit at 50km if you don't wanna use javs. And you can swap out the mods for more painters, more hardeners and throw some more BCUs on if you don't need the tank or afterburner. IMO, the beauty of the Raven is it's versatility, the beauty of the Golem is it's the raven and then better, the beauty of this fit on the golem just taking it up a notch. But what really makes it shine is that huge cargo bay and 40km tractor. It results in more ISK per second than is possible with even a CNR. You can almost always loot & salvage every rat in the mission in the time it takes you to kill them. A fit like this can handle level 4 AE bonus room without warping out solo. And Kidnappers strike 10/10 final spawns (five 1.2M BS rats that like to orbit at 50km).
Wideen Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.22 15:34:00 - [15] after having run with a raven for lvl 4 missions during the whole of my eve experience, I finally got rid of "the flying hotel with wings" and got an Apoc. Although that ship is not part of this discussion, my point is simply that I'm actually doing all the missions faster in the apoc despite it being restricted to two dmg types, mainly because of its much higher dps output. so my advice is go with the paladin; it seems like a rly solid ship, with lots of spare highslots for tractor beams and what not, awesome tank and great dps. Also, 9/10, I think you'll have more fun flying a paladin than a golem
Clueless Alt	Posted - 2008.07.22 15:41:00 - [16] Paladin, because ♥ laz0r ♥
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2008.07.22 15:59:00 - [17] I have been running a Nightmare for Amarr Navy for 6 months now. It literally breezes through any and all missions provided. T2 tank with Navy Tachyons, Heat Sinks and crystals. The only other faction item I have is a Kaikka's boost amplifier that I got cheap on contracts. It has such loose fitting that pretty much anything is possible, lots of grid and cpu. Tachyons on the Paladin means you are restricted to one repairer and no speedbooster. I complete Angel Extravaganza + Bonus Room as well as Enemies Abound much faster than I did using a cruise CNR. Angels may have high EM resists but they have very low hitpoints and overall weak thermal coverage. The only missions where you are on par with the CNR are the big ones against Gurista - high EM resist with high hitpoints take a while to chew through. My recommendation: Nightmare
Gram Hellfire Smoking Hillbillys Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida I have been running a Nightmare for Amarr Navy for 6 months now. It literally breezes through any and all missions provided. T2 tank with Navy Tachyons, Heat Sinks and crystals. The only other faction item I have is a Kaikka's boost amplifier that I got cheap on contracts. It has such loose fitting that pretty much anything is possible, lots of grid and cpu. Tachyons on the Paladin means you are restricted to one repairer and no speedbooster. I complete Angel Extravaganza + Bonus Room as well as Enemies Abound much faster than I did using a cruise CNR. Angels may have high EM resists but they have very low hitpoints and overall weak thermal coverage. The only missions where you are on par with the CNR are the big ones against Gurista - high EM resist with high hitpoints take a while to chew through. My recommendation: Nightmare I'm curious: How did you get the Nightmare cap stable enough for missions? I'm considering one, but can't make it work in EFT without a deadspace large shield booster.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:15:00 - [19] Shield tanked ships often aren't cap stable with the booster on. You only need the tank to last long enough to thin out the incoming DPS, not forever.
Gram Hellfire Smoking Hillbillys Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.22 17:03:00 - [20] and if you put our nightmare DPS, you won't have to tank for long - i see.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2008.07.22 17:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Gram Hellfire I'm curious: How did you get the Nightmare cap stable enough for missions? I'm considering one, but can't make it work in EFT without a deadspace large shield booster. You don't need to be cap stable, aim should be to be able to fire guns continuously with a bit of cap left over. That is why the Navy Tachyons are superior to T2 - they use 25% less cap per shot. My tank is: X-Large Booster II, Kaikka's Boost Amp, Invuln II, 2x Hardners II and 2x Cap modules (recharger or loaded booster) Most, if not all, missions have a single damage type to tank. Some have secondary that is limited to an identified already ship so can be taken out early on. With the right hardeners you can go through some missions on passive recharge alone. The Nightmare and the Marauders rely a lot on DPS tanking, where you kill ships off so fast that regularly tanking ability becomes irrelevant. You will be able one-volley most BCs and Cruisers so incoming dps drops really fast. The very best advice I can give you is to go heavy tank until you learn how the ship handles and then add damage mods as you get familiar with it.
Emperor Ryan Amarr Imperial Syndicate Forces	Posted - 2008.07.22 17:31:00 - [22] Originally by: Sekh Ondaari Originally by: Spider Silva cnr is better than golem because of the rate of fire bonus Have fun actually fitting 7 siege launchers on that CNR.... Thats not a hard task to do when i used a CNR i fitted 7 arby Seige lunchers. On lows you just fit 2 BCU t2 , 2 PDU t2 and one Capacitor Power Relay t2 fits fine and you can even fit an ab to t e med slot. and the cpu will be tight. but works.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.22 17:41:00 - [23] If you care about loot paladin, if you just want to look pimp, nightmare. and lasers and angels go together far better than people let on. my paladin can kill an angel bs faster than my alt in a cruise raven (bs 5 cruise 4) although a torp golem would kill em way faster. I have a paladin, nightmare, and my alt will have a golem sometime soonÖ
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.22 17:43:00 - [24] Originally by: Emperor Ryan Originally by: Sekh Ondaari Originally by: Spider Silva cnr is better than golem because of the rate of fire bonus Have fun actually fitting 7 siege launchers on that CNR.... Thats not a hard task to do when i used a CNR i fitted 7 arby Seige lunchers. On lows you just fit 2 BCU t2 , 2 PDU t2 and one Capacitor Power Relay t2 fits fine and you can even fit an ab to t e med slot. and the cpu will be tight. but works. there was an implied part to that, aka also add a tank and be able to get usable range on the torps.
Galliana Foresta Gallente Fleeting Moments of Insanity	Posted - 2008.07.22 17:44:00 - [25] Just to add something constructive: Get a Paladin. It is win. HIRING\|KB\|PRESS
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.22 17:50:00 - [26] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Gram Hellfire I'm curious: How did you get the Nightmare cap stable enough for missions? I'm considering one, but can't make it work in EFT without a deadspace large shield booster. You don't need to be cap stable, aim should be to be able to fire guns continuously with a bit of cap left over. That is why the Navy Tachyons are superior to T2 - they use 25% less cap per shot. My tank is: X-Large Booster II, Kaikka's Boost Amp, Invuln II, 2x Hardners II and 2x Cap modules (recharger or loaded booster) Most, if not all, missions have a single damage type to tank. Some have secondary that is limited to an identified already ship so can be taken out early on. With the right hardeners you can go through some missions on passive recharge alone. The Nightmare and the Marauders rely a lot on DPS tanking, where you kill ships off so fast that regularly tanking ability becomes irrelevant. You will be able one-volley most BCs and Cruisers so incoming dps drops really fast. The very best advice I can give you is to go heavy tank until you learn how the ship handles and then add damage mods as you get familiar with it. heh my paladin caps out at 5m 14s according to eft, haven't dropped below 30% cap yet 2x ccc I, 2x cap recharger II's for cap, and shooting tachs with multifreq.
ZW Dewitt	Posted - 2008.07.22 18:02:00 - [27] Edited by: ZW Dewitt on 22/07/2008 18:04:41 Originally by: Emperor Ryan Thats not a hard task to do when i used a CNR i fitted 7 arby Seige lunchers. On lows you just fit 2 BCU t2 , 2 PDU t2 and one Capacitor Power Relay t2 fits fine and you can even fit an ab to t e med slot. and the cpu will be tight. but works. Javelin torps are pretty much a requirement for torp mission boats these days with the exception of a couple mission, so you really need T2 siege launchers. Also torp golem ftw. Edit: at least until the Paladin gets the current apoc's range bonus.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.22 18:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Emperor Ryan Originally by: Sekh Ondaari Originally by: Spider Silva cnr is better than golem because of the rate of fire bonus Have fun actually fitting 7 siege launchers on that CNR.... Thats not a hard task to do when i used a CNR i fitted 7 arby Seige lunchers. On lows you just fit 2 BCU t2 , 2 PDU t2 and one Capacitor Power Relay t2 fits fine and you can even fit an ab to t e med slot. and the cpu will be tight. but works. First off arby is crap, heh, you want t2. If you're making a ratting fit, yeah sure, Arby and MWD can work, but then don't even bother with a CNR imo. Second, I said you can fit torps (even t2), but what's left is not a lot of room to fit a tank. Especially if you are trying to fit an afterburner, well, good luck, lol. If you want to spend a lot of ISKies on it, you can get a decent tank with t2 torps, although it's still pretty thin. The golem can fit t2 tank, fit t2 torps, fit range rigs, and do all this easily, and that's why it's a solid torp boat. While the CNR works, it takes a helluva lot of cramming to get t2 torp + range rigs + tank on that ship.
Aslord	Posted - 2008.07.22 19:07:00 - [29] i fly all three between my alts and the nightmare is the no doubt the best of the three for missions. setup low 3 faction heatsink, 2 t2 flux med t2 xl sb, 3 hardener, 3 t2 cap recharger high 4 faction tachyon (or 4 t2 mega pulse if you like), 2 whatever rig 2 t1 ccc, 1 t2 ccc it permatank while all guns firing add a crystal set and 5% implants and you be laughing at all the golem and paladin missions runner.
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.07.22 21:20:00 - [30] Originally by: Galliana Foresta Originally by: Spider Silva cnr is better than golem because of the rate of fire bonus And sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cos I wouldn't eat the filthy mother **er. Show me where he asked: "Which is better - Paladin, Nightmare, Golem or CNR?" Thanks for the new quote, As for the ships, I like the Golem as I'm now moving around weekly looking for new agents as players are lagging up systems. Because of that I love my Golem and being able to switch damage types. But I also have a nightmare alt (training for Paladin) who helps in the missions. Originally by:** Galliana Foresta And sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cos I wouldn't eat the filthy mother ****er.

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