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Epegi Givo
Amarr
Demon Theory
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Posted - 2008.07.22 21:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Epegi Givo on 22/07/2008 21:28:12
I know that people whine about nanos, and this isn't a whine, this is a question. What happens when 2 nano ships fight each other, like what if 1 zealot were to fight another, what would that look like?
Edit 1.: punctuation
 Originally by: DroneCommander
Originally by: Isiskhan
My mother's name is Rolricka. Yes, I'm being 100% serious.
Dude! Your mum got RolRick'd!
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.07.22 21:29:00 -
[2]
pew pew, boom boom zoom a zoom. EXPLOSION!
--
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Zephyr Rengate
dearg doom
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Posted - 2008.07.22 21:32:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
pew pew, boom boom zoom a zoom. EXPLOSION!
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I will not liek human meat but the naerest I tried is human chesse. I don't want to tried again ...
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.22 21:33:00 -
[4]
1. Lots of maneuvering
2. One pilot messes up and gets in web range
3. The pilot glides out of web range
4. GOTO 1
Repeat until one ship is almost out of ammo/cap boosters and disengages.
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.22 21:37:00 -
[5]
FIGHT!
-
DesuSigs |
Stab Wounds
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.22 21:39:00 -
[6]
they run away from each like the cowards the pilots actually are for fitting ships like that
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Dennmoth Ferdier
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Posted - 2008.07.22 22:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tarminic
1. Lots of maneuvering
2. One pilot messes up and gets in web range
3. The pilot glides out of web range
4. GOTO 1
Repeat until one ship is almost out of ammo/cap boosters and disengages.
Truth.
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Nexus Kinnon
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.23 00:13:00 -
[8]
the faster ship wins or disengages.
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2008.07.23 00:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
the faster ship wins or disengages.
Yeah a Vaga never ever lost to a Sacrilege.
--
Coming to you, Assault Ships fix, by the people saying that the Gallente Recons are fine. |
atrophocy
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.23 01:22:00 -
[10]
Edited by: atrophocy on 23/07/2008 01:22:31
it does depend what ship is fighting what. an ishtar for example has a hard time against any other nanoship as it's drones wont keep up and hence has no dps and isnt exaclty the fastest.
But basically it comes down to the same factors as any 1v1, who has the bigger tank [hp buffer], most dps and who knows their ship better.
Ships like the vaga and zealot that have decent range and tracking as well as speed usually fair well in nano duels.
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DubanFP
Caldari
Four Rings
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Posted - 2008.07.23 03:19:00 -
[11]
Edited by: DubanFP on 23/07/2008 03:20:10
Originally by: Tarminic
2. One pilot messes up and gets in web range
.
Wtf kind of nano pilot even fits a web in the first place? Not to mention the non-screwy uppy pilot gets in web range too.... Do you have any clue what you're talking about?
_______________
CCP Atropos > I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.23 04:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 23/07/2008 03:20:10
Originally by: Tarminic
2. One pilot messes up and gets in web range
.
Wtf kind of nano pilot even fits a web in the first place? Not to mention the non-screwy uppy pilot gets in web range too.... Do you have any clue what you're talking about?
Actually a nano sac fits web. Why? Because it will kill any other nano once caught in the web.
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
d3vo
The Space BorderLine
Diabolic Paradox
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Posted - 2008.07.23 05:04:00 -
[13]
Edited by: d3vo on 23/07/2008 05:03:54
Lyria, please teach me (or us) how to fly the Zealot!!!
__________
\(^.^)/ |
Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.07.23 06:16:00 -
[14]
One self destructs, and they both go to the forums to have a good cry.
Nano #1 (Survived): Self Destruct is GHEI, I WANT MY KILLMAIL
Nano #2 (Self-Destruct): Nerf Nanos. Remove MWDs blah blah blah
__________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.07.23 06:18:00 -
[15]
It's a bigger more expensive version of an inty vs inty fight.
But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post. |
Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.23 06:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 23/07/2008 03:20:10
Originally by: Tarminic
2. One pilot messes up and gets in web range
.
Wtf kind of nano pilot even fits a web in the first place? Not to mention the non-screwy uppy pilot gets in web range too.... Do you have any clue what you're talking about?
Actually a nano sac fits web. Why? Because it will kill any other nano once caught in the web.
It's true - but only because the sac has that flexible mid slot. Lots of nano ships have such a slot but they generally just stick an LSE in and hope for the best. Seems to work for them.
Still, I LOVE the Zealot. Actually I hate the zealot because nothing ends my fun in a cerb faster than a Zealot. Thus why my current item in training is Amarr Cruiser V to be followed by the laser skills. (That and the curse is an awesome ship)
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BiggestT
Caldari
Fun Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.23 06:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Epegi Givo
Edited by: Epegi Givo on 22/07/2008 21:28:12
I know that people whine about nanos, and this isn't a whine, this is a question. What happens when 2 nano ships fight each other, like what if 1 zealot were to fight another, what would that look like?
Edit 1.: punctuation
The caldari nano gets laughed at so hard that he leaves before they get bored and shoot him for fun
poudly annoying fc's since 2007
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123
caldari drone boat enthusiast |
Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.23 06:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: Epegi Givo
Edited by: Epegi Givo on 22/07/2008 21:28:12
I know that people whine about nanos, and this isn't a whine, this is a question. What happens when 2 nano ships fight each other, like what if 1 zealot were to fight another, what would that look like?
Edit 1.: punctuation
The caldari nano gets laughed at so hard that he leaves before they get bored and shoot him for fun
Then the AML Cerb shows up and the grins go away fast. Then they shoot back and things get interesting.
Sadly, neither caldari HAC is suitable for Nano. Cerb can get 3k/s or so but it's a staggering investment for a tiny gain (3k/s isn't fast enough to really evade fire). In my book if you can't hit 4.5k/s you have to start thinking of your speed as battlespace control NOT tank - and polycarbed and od fitted cerbs just don't have a lot of room for tank unfortunately - you're essentially forced to use HML's by design.
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Euriti
Gallente
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.23 07:26:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Stab Wounds
they run away from each like the cowards the pilots actually are for fitting ships like that
Ban.
Now.
It's like a heavy interceptor fight.
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Sekh Ondaari
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Posted - 2008.07.23 07:34:00 -
[20]
Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 23/07/2008 03:20:10
Originally by: Tarminic
2. One pilot messes up and gets in web range
.
Wtf kind of nano pilot even fits a web in the first place? Not to mention the non-screwy uppy pilot gets in web range too.... Do you have any clue what you're talking about?
I tend to fit a web or two to most of my Rapiers and Huginns. Does that make me or you clueless?
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.23 08:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: Epegi Givo
Edited by: Epegi Givo on 22/07/2008 21:28:12
I know that people whine about nanos, and this isn't a whine, this is a question. What happens when 2 nano ships fight each other, like what if 1 zealot were to fight another, what would that look like?
Edit 1.: punctuation
The caldari nano gets laughed at so hard that he leaves before they get bored and shoot him for fun
Then the AML Cerb shows up and the grins go away fast. Then they shoot back and things get interesting.
Sadly, neither caldari HAC is suitable for Nano. Cerb can get 3k/s or so but it's a staggering investment for a tiny gain (3k/s isn't fast enough to really evade fire). In my book if you can't hit 4.5k/s you have to start thinking of your speed as battlespace control NOT tank - and polycarbed and od fitted cerbs just don't have a lot of room for tank unfortunately - you're essentially forced to use HML's by design.
I'de like to see you get an ishtar over 4km/s without snakes or a mindlink in gang.
I really can't understand why that ship is so good at surviving...
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WillageGirl
Advanced Tactics and Maneuvers
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Posted - 2008.07.23 08:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Epegi Givo
Edited by: Epegi Givo on 22/07/2008 21:28:12
I know that people whine about nanos, and this isn't a whine, this is a question. What happens when 2 nano ships fight each other, like what if 1 zealot were to fight another, what would that look like?
Edit 1.: punctuation
one of the nanos call hes friends and BBQ's the 2nd nano at a gate if the 2nd pilot pursues.
1on1's are so 2005.
Even though you get few every now and then, most people just run and try to gank you later with friends.
Fighting for Our right to Cloak since 2004 |
Jallem Sims
Minmatar
Quantum Warriors
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Posted - 2008.07.23 08:28:00 -
[23]
for a nano ishtars all it takes is good nav skills and 3% implants plus the usual nano setup to get you above 4k
Simple, don't leave home without one.... amazing damage dealer. They drop drones and race around while drones do the damage in an epic way. Or maybe drop a set for sentries... with the t2 version range and tracking 0_O.....
maybe cause these little monkeys can fit all the required tackle/mid slot mods plus cap Booster <--- well important for nano's and major down side to vaga. I'd put money on the ishtar beating most nanos if the pilot of the ishtar has his speed above 4k tbh.
i don't fly one, but when i leave home with one, the isn't a ship sub cap i wouldn't tackle and engage.
Nano v Nano... yeah, depends totally on pilot skills at flying and nothing to do with sp's. Usually a dangerous fight due to high cost/risk factor. Generally, its the ones that can effectively use overheat within their flying that tend to fair better, snagging the other pilot with extended web or holding him with extended point. But then, it also requires the other pilot to stay in the fight, cause its not to hard to get out of point range.
i like the guy which said > inty fight but in crusiers. However due to having lots more slots available, the fighting is a lot more varied, with neuts, webs, ecm, eccm, drones all playing more of a role in a greater depth of fight. |
MenanceWhite
Amarr
Red Light Navy
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Posted - 2008.07.23 08:34:00 -
[24]
When 2 nano ships dukes out in 1v1, that rapier that just uncloaked 30km away from them wins.
---
Originally by: Torfi
There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Jallem Sims
Minmatar
Quantum Warriors
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Posted - 2008.07.23 08:37:00 -
[25]
oh.. the ishtar v other nano... well, i only say its really kicks, cause of the cap booster, plus highs/drone bay. It usually requires the other nano to mess up, but thats the same with all nano v nano fights. Highs usually have support or 125s in. 125s with iron will high everything in range, as tracking is awesome!
stick a neut of 2 up there, and some nano gets in web range, you can dubble neut it web it, and drop your most evil drones on him... sentries. and watch how it will melt. Hopfully you have your LSEII on to buffer the reply. But lets say, you don't have a cap booster and have gone for the duel LSEII fit, then you going to outlast most nanos. Lets assume the other nano has double LSE fit, then you simple web, neut and race off.
When you go super nano'ing... lowgrades, your looking up 6k and above overheating, and this ship not only can drop drones and burn around, it can also bump like the is no tomorrow!
I not speaking from actually flying one of these, but i fly with on in gang all the time in 2/3 man roaming recon/hac gang. while i sit in rapier, it makes me want to train for ishtar just seeing how well it moves compaired to other hacs like the vaga and zealot. |
Jallem Sims
Minmatar
Quantum Warriors
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Posted - 2008.07.23 08:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: MenanceWhite
When 2 nano ships dukes out in 1v1, that rapier that just uncloaked 30km away from them wins.
yes.... however.... with your rubbish guns, hope that he stays cause against a zealot your kinda in range of his lasers... you'll have to keep your speed up too, and hope your tank holds out from the vaga's 220s (his fall off is pretty impressive).
you basically relay on your drones, and if the other guy is switched on he will toake those out pretty quick. then get back to work on you. ONce your shields have gone... your dead :(
lets face it... if you catch them napping, its great to have a go knowing you can bail if it gets funky, but if they jumped through a gate, and pulse the mwd before you hit a web on them, they'll drift back to gate with the mass of the ship and inertia playing wevil tricks!
but its the safest ship to engage a nanohac in.... assuming again, you pilot it well etc etc |
the member
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.07.23 08:47:00 -
[27]
sorry for drifting away from the main topic a bit, but id like ask for a clarification. if you look at plain vaga stats, is the max speed shown (242 m/s), the max speed after minmatar cruiser skill bonus applied or before? thanks.
Quote:
"You're obviously from France."
-- Intel CEO Paul Ottelini
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.23 08:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jallem Sims
for a nano ishtars all it takes is good nav skills and 3% implants plus the usual nano setup to get you above 4k
Simple, don't leave home without one.... amazing damage dealer. They drop drones and race around while drones do the damage in an epic way. Or maybe drop a set for sentries... with the t2 version range and tracking 0_O.....
maybe cause these little monkeys can fit all the required tackle/mid slot mods plus cap Booster <--- well important for nano's and major down side to vaga. I'd put money on the ishtar beating most nanos if the pilot of the ishtar has his speed above 4k tbh.
i don't fly one, but when i leave home with one, the isn't a ship sub cap i wouldn't tackle and engage.
Nano v Nano... yeah, depends totally on pilot skills at flying and nothing to do with sp's. Usually a dangerous fight due to high cost/risk factor. Generally, its the ones that can effectively use overheat within their flying that tend to fair better, snagging the other pilot with extended web or holding him with extended point. But then, it also requires the other pilot to stay in the fight, cause its not to hard to get out of point range.
i like the guy which said > inty fight but in crusiers. However due to having lots more slots available, the fighting is a lot more varied, with neuts, webs, ecm, eccm, drones all playing more of a role in a greater depth of fight.
Does the standard nano fit include T2 polycarbs :P
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Jallem Sims
Minmatar
Quantum Warriors
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Posted - 2008.07.23 09:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
I'de like to see you get an ishtar over 4km/s without snakes or a mindlink in gang.
I really can't understand why that ship is so good at surviving...
sorry, i was replying to this qoute.... suggesting you need snakes to go above 4k in a ishtar. and was simply providing you with a quick and cheap setup that dose not involve snakes or mindlink or polies to get pretty much to 4k.... over heat it, and your doing easy over 4k.
and for the extra what... 35mil to get those 3% implants..... cheaper than paying out 100mil for set of polies that can't be used on anyother ship. |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.07.23 09:20:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 23/07/2008 09:20:58
actually that the fastest ships win is not true :)
the one wins that still is able to hit at those speeds/ranges. even if you are slower you can still force the enemy off you with dmg. once they see, they are going down, it is more likely that they try to leave than to stay and go on fighting.
short:
turrets and manual piloting ftw :)
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Rennion
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Posted - 2008.07.23 09:39:00 -
[31]
Depends on which HAC's are fighting.
But effectively it is just a heavy weight inty fight as has been said.
Love seeing a good webby ishtar fight another HAC. Its like a souped up blaster ranis, outmaneuver to land the web, drop drones, raep.
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.23 09:54:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jallem Sims
Originally by: Wil Smithx
I'de like to see you get an ishtar over 4km/s without snakes or a mindlink in gang.
I really can't understand why that ship is so good at surviving...
sorry, i was replying to this qoute.... suggesting you need snakes to go above 4k in a ishtar. and was simply providing you with a quick and cheap setup that dose not involve snakes or mindlink or polies to get pretty much to 4k.... over heat it, and your doing easy over 4k.
and for the extra what... 35mil to get those 3% implants..... cheaper than paying out 100mil for set of polies that can't be used on anyother ship.
I thinkt he cheapest and easiest way to manage it is with a mindlinked claymore floating around in system giving you a 50% boost to speed agility and web range (oh yes that is what pain is children).
I think the most interesthing thing I looked at with a mindlinked claymore in system is a nano raven, which can manage about 3km/s quite easily, then combine that with cruise missiles (with a high alpha payload) and aproaching a target to blueshift your missiles into an insane alpha strike.
Just a little something I woudln't mind doing on test....
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Snow Banshee
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Posted - 2008.07.23 09:57:00 -
[33]
its like:
Mork VS Mindy
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.23 10:09:00 -
[34]
Ok a serious reply to the original question from me now, lol...
Generally; The more nano a ship is the worse it will fight against other nanos. Harder tanking gunny ships that can shift fairly fast (3+ km/s) will tend to eat other nano ships alive (if and when they catch them), while ships like the vaga will tend to die as soon as they reach close quarters with anything but an inty or worse fitted vaga.
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Nexus Kinnon
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.23 10:29:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
the faster ship wins or disengages.
Yeah a Vaga never ever lost to a Sacrilege.
yeah you've never ever made a post with a completely ******ed argument and no evidence to back it up.
However, I probably should have said usually wins or disengages.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.23 13:14:00 -
[36]
Originally by: d3vo
Edited by: d3vo on 23/07/2008 05:03:54
Lyria, please teach me (or us) how to fly the Zealot!!!
Don't nano it :-)
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Wil Smithx
|
Posted - 2008.07.23 13:33:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: d3vo
Edited by: d3vo on 23/07/2008 05:03:54
Lyria, please teach me (or us) how to fly the Zealot!!!
Don't nano it :-)
Doesn't it do like 3km/s without speed mods anyways? perfect for catching speed tanks.
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Yo Mommy
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.23 13:36:00 -
[38]
Nothing happens bcs all nano***s are in fact nano***s and will flee if they meet an equal.
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Ambrosious Martin
Son of Man
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Posted - 2008.07.23 14:05:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Ok a serious reply to the original question from me now, lol...
Generally; The more nano a ship is the worse it will fight against other nanos. Harder tanking gunny ships that can shift fairly fast (3+ km/s) will tend to eat other nano ships alive (if and when they catch them), while ships like the vaga will tend to die as soon as they reach close quarters with anything but an inty or worse fitted vaga.
I took on a thorax with T2blasters in my vaga toe to toe, and WON! I had no tackle on and was duel polyed...
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Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.07.23 14:06:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Yo Mommy
Nothing happens bcs all nano***s are in fact nano***s and will flee if they meet an equal.
Dare I hazard a guess? Thay don't actually flee from poor you, do they? 
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Achura Model
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Posted - 2008.07.23 22:45:00 -
[41]
If one of them is huginn, then second is wreck (well, aside from curse which will run away)...
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Father Weebles
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.07.24 03:08:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Father Weebles on 24/07/2008 03:10:19
It all comes down to which one fields more huginns.
"You leave anything for us?"
"Just bodies." |
Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.07.24 03:15:00 -
[43]
Dont be silly, a curse should bbq a hugin 1v1.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Terianna Eri Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.24 05:54:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: d3vo
Edited by: d3vo on 23/07/2008 05:03:54
Lyria, please teach me (or us) how to fly the Zealot!!!
Don't nano it :-)
Doesn't it do like 3km/s without speed mods anyways? perfect for catching speed tanks.
More like 2km/s actually, which is still quite reasonable.
However IMHO the Zealot is all about the 35km range on HPL II + Scorch, before any range mods are applied 
__________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.24 06:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Father Weebles
Edited by: Father Weebles on 24/07/2008 03:10:19
It all comes down to which one fields more huginns.
Until a falcon decloaks.
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Euriti
Gallente
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.24 06:54:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: d3vo
Edited by: d3vo on 23/07/2008 05:03:54
Lyria, please teach me (or us) how to fly the Zealot!!!
Don't nano it :-)
Doesn't it do like 3km/s without speed mods anyways? perfect for catching speed tanks.
More like 2km/s actually, which is still quite reasonable.
However IMHO the Zealot is all about the 35km range on HPL II + Scorch, before any range mods are applied
It still needs speed to control range.
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Achura Model
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Posted - 2008.07.24 07:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Dont be silly, a curse should bbq a hugin 1v1.
Curse won't kill a huginn
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Gabriel Virtus
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Posted - 2008.07.24 08:04:00 -
[48]
Nano vs. Nano
Curse is top dog. Played by a good player with decent skills, a nano cure wins. The curse would win because a nano with no cap isn't a nano and quickly dispatched by drones. Curse eats nano and even eats Huggins/Rapiers because no cap = no web. Even nanos that are injecting can be easily defeated by staggering neut/nos.
Obviously the Huggin/Rapier would be next, their range make them almost impossible to kill by another nano.
Ishtar is sort of a wild card, it can kill a curse and a huggin if played by a clever pilot. An ishtar can fit enough of a tank to drop sentries with omni tracks and destroy almost any other nano...
All in all, it is just a fight of heavier intercepters :P
Flame on
-Gabriel
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.24 13:24:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Euriti
It still needs speed to control range.
Control range against what, if I might ask?
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Ambrosious Martin
Son of Man
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:21:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Achura Model
If one of them is huginn, then second is wreck (well, aside from curse which will run away)...
Hmmm I disagree to a degree. I know from experience that if a vaga comes across a huggin 1v1 the vaga should win by default... why you say? Well the vaga should immediatelly approach the huggin at full speed and let him get webbed, by the time the huggin gets the lock and webs on then the vaga is up its ass delivering all of its DPS, which just to remind everyone while the huggin is great Vs. many other ships, its still pretty squishy.
and if the curse pilot is smart he will live thru the battle. nuet the huggin into the ground, and wait to pop his drones... huggin is now nearly out of DPS. while the curse is still spewing missles and nuets, OH yeah and still has drones
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Eledh
Xenobytes
Stain Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:22:00 -
[51]
dmg mode win!
-------------------------------------
[x_x]you asked we are happy?
we are happy and protected!
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Matrixcvd
Caldari
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Dennmoth Ferdier
Originally by: Tarminic
1. Lots of maneuvering
2. One pilot messes up and gets in web range
3. The pilot glides out of web range
4. GOTO 1
Repeat until one ship is almost out of ammo/cap boosters and disengages.
Truth.
if this were the truth no one would be on the killboards... utter pathetic
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.24 16:12:00 -
[53]
Edited by: P''uck on 24/07/2008 16:13:08
Originally by: Ambrosious Martin
Originally by: Achura Model
If one of them is huginn, then second is wreck (well, aside from curse which will run away)...
Hmmm I disagree to a degree. I know from experience that if a vaga comes across a huggin 1v1 the vaga should win by default... why you say? Well the vaga should immediatelly approach the huggin at full speed and let him get webbed, by the time the huggin gets the lock and webs on then the vaga is up its ass delivering all of its DPS, which just to remind everyone while the huggin is great Vs. many other ships, its still pretty squishy.
and if the curse pilot is smart he will live thru the battle. nuet the huggin into the ground, and wait to pop his drones... huggin is now nearly out of DPS. while the curse is still spewing missles and nuets, OH yeah and still has drones
just toying around, but
1) shouldnt the huginn pilot try to keep range at the beginning of the fight, until the web has slowed down the target enough? So it probably depends on the starting range... if the vaga is really close, meh, maybe. on the other hand, most vagas dont bring webs, i heard. I'm just trying to learn something here, but from what I know now, my bet would be on the huginn, unless the vaga brings 2x falloff rigs. oh and btw, a huginn should pretty much instalock an MWDing vaga, no?
2) curse vs huginn.... id say the curse is more screwed without drones dps and the huginn has the upper hand, even capless, when it comes to remove those drones. i wouldnt say it can kill the curse, because, unless capinjected it wont be able to hold a point.
But in no way i would say this will be a clear win for the curse. wait a second...
how many backup waves of drones those a curse bring? 
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Xaen
Caldari
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:40:00 -
[54]
The curse.
Failing that, the Rapier/Huginn.
Everything else is pretty much a tossup.
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Xaen
Caldari
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 18:08:00 -
[55]
Originally by: P'uck
1) shouldnt the huginn pilot try to keep range at the beginning of the fight, until the web has slowed down the target enough? So it probably depends on the starting range... if the vaga is really close, meh, maybe. on the other hand, most vagas dont bring webs, i heard. I'm just trying to learn something here, but from what I know now, my bet would be on the huginn, unless the vaga brings 2x falloff rigs. oh and btw, a huginn should pretty much instalock an MWDing vaga, no?
They can try.
But not all vagabonds are speed fit. Some of them are fit for DPS. Yes it was a corpmate. No, I wasn't trying to blow him up. But once his shield buffer was gone it took 1 volley. So 1v1, a vaga can actually beat most webbing ships due to vastly superior dps when there's no speed involved combined with a pretty nice buffer tank with t2 resists. Not to mention that without a double web, the vaga can still do 500m/s. And if he knows he's caught you can bet your ass he's gonna be closing distance on the huginn if it's dumb enough to sit still.
Originally by: P'uck
2) curse vs huginn.... id say the curse is more screwed without drones dps and the huginn has the upper hand, even capless, when it comes to remove those drones. i wouldnt say it can kill the curse, because, unless capinjected it wont be able to hold a point.
Several factors here. The Curse is going to be able to intermittently MWD due to shutting off the huginn's web. The huginn however, is going nowhere slowly. The tracking disruptors are really gonna screw up the huginn's guns too. Then there is the fact that the curse has bonused drones. Lots of them. Hugginn typically has 3 meds and two lights. My guesstimations put capping out a Huginn in around 20 seconds. And the guns will be useless immediately. Send out Warrior IIs to dispatch his medium drones, or just focus on his tiny buffer tank.
Originally by: P'uck
how many backup waves of drones those a curse bring?
At least one additional wave of Hammerheads. You're really in for a treat if he brought ECM drones too. Leave a few regular hammerheads on you. A couple of medium ECM drones, throw in some missiles for flavor...stir gently, and collect KM.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.24 18:22:00 -
[56]
Edited by: P''uck on 24/07/2008 18:23:47
Originally by: Xaen
And if he knows he's caught you can bet your ass he's gonna be closing distance on the huginn if it's dumb enough to sit still.
Yeah, that's my point... I don't see any huginn pilot with a clue sitting still in that situation (not that i have a clue, as i said, I try to learn, rather through some stupid questions than some comedy lossmails). So in that light, doubleweb, move away to border of webrange, and the vaga shouldn't hurt anymore. unless falloff rigs.
and about the curse, well... i always seem to be forgetting those TDs. I know its hard to web those drones without cap, but i figured it should be possible to web and hit them once in a while. probably not with those tds, however well you can always try to make use of the TP bonus and lob HAMs at them
edit; oh and btw, if i calced that correctly, the huginn is capless in two shots of a medium neut, so depending on the curse fit... instantly after the lock, right?
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Euriti
Gallente
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.24 18:44:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Euriti
It still needs speed to control range.
Control range against what, if I might ask?
You know how battles tend to spread out and you need to move from enemy to enemy while controlling range?
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Xaen
Caldari
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 19:03:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Xaen on 24/07/2008 19:06:29
Originally by: P'uck
Originally by: Xaen
And if he knows he's caught you can bet your ass he's gonna be closing distance on the huginn if it's dumb enough to sit still.
Yeah, that's my point... I don't see any huginn pilot with a clue sitting still in that situation (not that i have a clue, as i said, I try to learn, rather through some stupid questions than some comedy lossmails). So in that light, doubleweb, move away to border of webrange, and the vaga shouldn't hurt anymore. unless falloff rigs.
In the KM I posted my corpmate was out at scram range orbiting me. I just sat there and unloaded. And I didn't overload either since I wasn't actually trying to kill him. No falloff rigs involved. Barrage in a well skilled (Gunnery/HAC IV-V) Vagabond is still dangerous at 22-24km. Not to mention my drones (Drone interfacing V) and faction missiles didn't help him a lot.
Originally by: P'uck
and about the curse, well... i always seem to be forgetting those TDs. I know its hard to web those drones without cap, but i figured it should be possible to web and hit them once in a while. probably not with those tds, however well you can always try to make use of the TP bonus and lob HAMs at them
Some curse pilots don't bring TDs for some stupid reason. Some don't bring nos either, and rely on injectors. Funny thing is a hybrid nos/neut setup will beat a pure neut in a fight every time in 1v1. Works with curses and dominixes.
Originally by: P'uck
edit; oh and btw, if i calced that correctly, the huginn is capless in two shots of a medium neut, so depending on the curse fit... instantly after the lock, right?
Yes. I don't usually bring two Neuts, but it would still only take 8, maybe 16 seconds. *coughTalismancough*
edit: In short, a Curse pilot that knows what he's doing can really screw up a gunboat's day. Problem is the minimum ship cost is somewhere around 170M minimum, kinda fragile, and very skill intensive. (Navigation skills, Amarr Cruiser V, Heavy Missile V, Drone skills etc., t2 shield hardeners etc.) Especially with a setup like mine, it's all over the place. Pure cap warfare setups are less skill heavy, but way more expensive.
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Ambrosious Martin
Son of Man
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Posted - 2008.07.24 19:06:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: P'uck
1) shouldnt the huginn pilot try to keep range at the beginning of the fight, until the web has slowed down the target enough? So it probably depends on the starting range... if the vaga is really close, meh, maybe. on the other hand, most vagas dont bring webs, i heard. I'm just trying to learn something here, but from what I know now, my bet would be on the huginn, unless the vaga brings 2x falloff rigs. oh and btw, a huginn should pretty much instalock an MWDing vaga, no?
They can try.
But not all vagabonds are speed fit. Some of them are fit for DPS. Yes it was a corpmate. No, I wasn't trying to blow him up. But once his shield buffer was gone it took 1 volley. So 1v1, a vaga can actually beat most webbing ships due to vastly superior dps when there's no speed involved combined with a pretty nice buffer tank with t2 resists. Not to mention that without a double web, the vaga can still do 500m/s. And if he knows he's caught you can bet your ass he's gonna be closing distance on the huginn if it's dumb enough to sit still.
Originally by: P'uck
2) curse vs huginn.... id say the curse is more screwed without drones dps and the huginn has the upper hand, even capless, when it comes to remove those drones. i wouldnt say it can kill the curse, because, unless capinjected it wont be able to hold a point.
Several factors here. The Curse is going to be able to intermittently MWD due to shutting off the huginn's web. The huginn however, is going nowhere slowly. The tracking disruptors are really gonna screw up the huginn's guns too. Then there is the fact that the curse has bonused drones. Lots of them. Hugginn typically has 3 meds and two lights. My guesstimations put capping out a Huginn in around 20 seconds. And the guns will be useless immediately. Send out Warrior IIs to dispatch his medium drones, or just focus on his tiny buffer tank.
Originally by: P'uck
how many backup waves of drones those a curse bring?
At least one additional wave of Hammerheads. You're really in for a treat if he brought ECM drones too. Leave a few regular hammerheads on you. A couple of medium ECM drones, throw in some missiles for flavor...stir gently, and collect KM.
Wow did me and Xean actually agree???? I do have to add tho that the huggin will most likelly be using missles too but they do too little DPS to really effect the vaga or curse.
And the scenerio where the vaga encounters a huggin usually dosnt happen in a belt but at a gate as the vaga jumps thru or some such effect... If the vaga is in a belt and run up on by the huggin remember that while the hugin is still entering the belt the vaga has 3-7 seconds to do what he needs. thats more than enough time to MWD to the target... Im going off my own personal Vaga which does 5500m/s and still is fitted with 2 gyros.. so does more than enough DPS.
Theres lots of ship ill engage 1v1 in my vaga.. including BS's with heavy nuets, since I engage outside of that range, cant tell why its secret. the one ship I wont engage 1v1 is a Curse. the most evil of Nano's
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Xaen
Caldari
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 19:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ambrosious Martin
Wow did me and Xean actually agree????
I have no idea who you are, so I don't know why we would intrinsically disagree.
But I don't pay very much attention to who is posting what, just their post content, so I may have flamed you at some point. Don't take it personally. Sorry!
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Ambrosious Martin
Son of Man
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Posted - 2008.07.24 20:03:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Ambrosious Martin
Wow did me and Xean actually agree????
I have no idea who you are, so I don't know why we would intrinsically disagree.
But I don't pay very much attention to who is posting what, just their post content, so I may have flamed you at some point. Don't take it personally. Sorry!
I dont take it personally!! I has just been typical that we have conflicting ideas, and we actually agreed. I like to pay attention to all of the forum persoanlly, that way if I see a thread started by say "eliuti" I know hes a moron and not to even bother wasting my time reading
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Achura Model
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Posted - 2008.07.24 23:15:00 -
[62]
Well, I assure you that MY huginn does have enough DPS to kill any vaga on warpdis distance. And yes, I mostly use misiles and drones. Two t2 balcons help too...
And I realy doubt any curse would get close enough to drain my capa. My web's optimal is 40 km btw (more than 50 when overloaded)... The only way for curse to survivle is running away...
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