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Frankinator
E-Thugz
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Posted - 2008.07.23 12:38:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: P'uck
Edited by: P''uck on 23/07/2008 12:37:17
I wonder how long it takes til the first ****-drunk guy gets the wrong door late at night, somewhere in the suburbs where one house looks like the other and then doesn't wake up with a hangover next the morning, because he has no head anymore.
Nobody said there were no negatives to being drunk besides the hangover 
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Slanty McGarglefist
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Posted - 2008.07.23 12:39:00 -
[62]
Drunk people are prime suspects for mugging.
Please travel in groups.
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
No
Doh! |
morhe
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Posted - 2008.07.23 12:41:00 -
[63]
well i live in texas and there is a law in texas that states " if you put a fence up all the way around your property, with a posted sign that says all treepassers will be shot( the sign has to be on each side of the fence) then you can shot and kill all who go onto your land" for those of you that think i am lying please look it up! and i havce shot at one person that was trying to steal gas from my truck! he jumped the fence and i heard a noise and looked out side then grabed a shotgun and fires off 3 rounds ( did more damage to my truck than him) but the cops got him down the road i beat he wont steal from me again 
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.23 12:41:00 -
[64]
Edited by: P''uck on 23/07/2008 12:46:37
nvm, kinda offtopic. just wanted to say, that law is basically very problematic, as much as I'm for defending ones property.
also I feel kinda sorry for that young boy, but you might as well say it was his own damn fault. I guess he knew he could get shot, unless he never heard that this can legally happen. after reading the whole article in full, i feel pressed to rephrase that to "its hard to feel compassion for a total idiot"
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Akiba Penrose
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.23 12:49:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Frankinator
Nobody is giving them the right to kill necessarily. By allowing them to own a weapon (and I mean legally own one, with background check and all), you are giving them the right to defend themselves.
People that own guns dont have any more rights then others.
Originally by: Frankinator
Now, we all have the right to walk the streets freely, but if we decide to abuse this right and break into other people's homes for no reason, then prepare for the owner of said home to exercise his right to DEFEND his or herself and his or her property.
C'mon, Leathal force for attempting breaking in? Only americans is that crazy.
Just a simple "hello??" would probably have scared him of. Did he fire a warning shot? nope, 3 shots to the head, just to be sure.
Giving someone right to defend whats theirs is not the same as giving them right to kill everyone they think is committing a crime on their property.
Originally by: Frankinator
And obviously you havent been around too many burglaries, because lots of burglars DO carry weapons, and they arent for defense, they are to attack anyone who gets in their way, provoked or not.
Actually i have, and your assumption is not correct. This is just guessing from your part.
Originally by: Frankinator
And for the record, Ive never met any person be so "confused" that they felt the need to break into any place they perceived as their own home.
Who you have met or not, is not relevant.
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE
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Posted - 2008.07.23 12:53:00 -
[66]
If someone or some people were breaking into my house. Whether i was on my own or if i had a family. I would defend myself by any means necessary. Dont care about the countrys laws.
It is the offenders fault in the first place. He/She knew what they were doing. Should face the consiquences.
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.07.23 13:01:00 -
[67]
Originally by: P'uck
Edited by: P''uck on 23/07/2008 12:39:30
I wonder how long it takes til the first ****-drunk guy gets the wrong door late at night, somewhere in the suburbs, where one house looks like the other, and then doesn't wake up with a hangover next morning because he has no head anymore.
edit; i can already see the responses  HE WAS A BURDEN TO SOCIETY ANYWAYS!
This happened in England not too long ago. Man came home really drunk to his house. He'd recently moved in. He couldn't open the door with his keys so tried to force his way in. Expect it wasn't his house, it was 4 doors down.
Owner came to the door with a knife and stabbed him to death.
I don't think the guy was charged with anything in the end.
Will try to dig out some links at some point.
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Frankinator
E-Thugz
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Posted - 2008.07.23 13:06:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
People that own guns dont have any more rights then others.
Youre right, I didnt choose my words carefully enough. I meant you are giving them more of a means of defending themselves.
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
C'mon, Leathal force for attempting breaking in? Only americans is that crazy.
Just a simple "hello??" would probably have scared him of. Did he fire a warning shot? nope, 3 shots to the head, just to be sure.
Giving someone right to defend whats theirs is not the same as giving them right to kill everyone they think is committing a crime on their property.
I dont know about you, but Im pretty sure that when you break someone's window to open their door, you go from "attempting" to break in, to "breaking in". Just me though.
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
Actually i have, and your assumption is not correct. This is just guessing from your part.
Youre right, I assumed you didnt seeing as you dont think that most burglars carry weapons on them. From a burglar's point of view, if they arent carrying a weapon, then they obviously havent thought about the consequences of breaking into a home thoroughly enough.
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
Who you have met or not, is not relevant.
It was a figure of speech, but youre right, I shouldnt underestimate the stupidity of human beings. Such as the stupidity of this 15 year old kid who BROKE into this man's home with the intent to steal and/or harm. Not ATTEMPTED to, but DID break into his home.
PS: No hard feelings between us I hope Akiba, I like you.
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northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2008.07.23 13:09:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
C'mon, Leathal force for attempting breaking in? Only americans is that crazy.
Just a simple "hello??" would probably have scared him of. Did he fire a warning shot? nope, 3 shots to the head, just to be sure.
Giving someone right to defend whats theirs is not the same as giving them right to kill everyone they think is committing a crime on their property.
in all honesty if there 3 shots fired to the head then he should be charged as its over use of fire arms! Tho I would shot him but hit his leg so the sucker cant run! If he armed I will fire if he doesnt comply with my command to put the weapon down! If I can I go by the British Army Rules of Engagment if I can.
I mean not like UK they come in with a baseball bat most times there armed and people been killed because they were rubbing there house. and ****d I know because It happened to a friend of mine! in 2004 :(
Trinity Corporate Services
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Plumpy McPudding
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Posted - 2008.07.23 13:09:00 -
[70]
Why use guns when chainsaws offer so much more enjoyment?
__________________________
Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite!
Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream. |
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Rawrior
Gallente
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.07.23 13:14:00 -
[71]
Originally by: northwesten
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
C'mon, Leathal force for attempting breaking in? Only americans is that crazy.
Just a simple "hello??" would probably have scared him of. Did he fire a warning shot? nope, 3 shots to the head, just to be sure.
Giving someone right to defend whats theirs is not the same as giving them right to kill everyone they think is committing a crime on their property.
in all honesty if there 3 shots fired to the head then he should be charged as its over use of fire arms! Tho I would shot him but hit his leg so the sucker cant run! If he armed I will fire if he doesnt comply with my command to put the weapon down! If I can I go by the British Army Rules of Engagment if I can.
I mean not like UK they come in with a baseball bat most times there armed and people been killed because they were rubbing there house. and ****d I know because It happened to a friend of mine! in 2004 :(
if they live after you shot then, you'll be sued :< and.. is there some law against rubbing houses? 
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Slanty McGarglefist
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Posted - 2008.07.23 13:17:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Slanty McGarglefist on 23/07/2008 13:17:28
Originally by: Rawrior
is there some law against rubbing houses?
Not that I know of. Beating a house in the public's eye is against the law though. Indecent exposure I think.
__________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
No
Doh! |
Flash Bombardo
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Posted - 2008.07.23 13:51:00 -
[73]
I think the homeowner was completely justified in shooting the intruder. Anyone forcing entry into your house whilst you're in it has to be stopped by whatever means necesarry.
Of course in Britain, the homeowner would be sent to prison whilst the boys junkie mother would be given councilling, benefits and a free whale watching holiday.
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northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2008.07.23 14:24:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Flash Bombardo
I think the homeowner was completely justified in shooting the intruder. Anyone forcing entry into your house whilst you're in it has to be stopped by whatever means necesarry.
Of course in Britain, the homeowner would be sent to prison whilst the boys junkie mother would be given councilling, benefits and a free whale watching holiday.
this!
Trinity Corporate Services
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Lord MuffloN
Caldari
Aggressive Tendencies
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.07.23 14:29:00 -
[75]
Right, as one of the few liberals around I'll say this: JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE LIBERAL DOESN'T MEAN YOU SUPPORT GUN CONTROL OR HATE GUNS, ****ING STOP MISUSING A WORD THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING OF! (AND YES, I'M WATCHING AT YOU, AMERICANS ESPECIALLY!)
And for my own personal view: Well, not getting any punishment for taking a live, even if defending your home, possessions and family seems a bit to relaxed for me, heck, if you own a gun (and in this case, several) you have a responsibility for it, because as people have said, guns do no evil, people do.
Originally by: Jago Kain
If they ever decide to award a Nobel Prize for Emo, Lord MuffloN is a sure fire winner of the first on |
Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.23 15:12:00 -
[76]
Kids own dumbass fault for breaking in, i would do the same thing as i dont want to take the chance of a thief having a weapon
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
The fact that people who post stupid things get instant and honest feedback letting them know how stupid they are, is one of the best qualities of the Eve forums.
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Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.23 15:21:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Buff Plankchest
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
Imo Jeff McGuire should be charged with murder.
He shot and killed a juvenile for attempting to break in.
The little miscreant had it coming.
Contemplate if you will.
Someone is trying to break into your house/apartment. You can't know why they are doing in - maybe they are here to rob you, maybe they are here to harm you or your family. Maybe they are here to rob you but will not hesitate to harm you or yours if they get into their way. You are going to assume the worse! And you are going to do what any sane person would do - protect you and yours. It's completely within bounds of logic.
I don't see how using deadly force in such a situation would seem unreasonable.
It also depends on who the shooter is... let's say the shooter is a 60 year old man with arthritis. That sets in your mind he is a very feeble old man that can't do anything if attacked.
On the other hand, say the shooter is a 22 year old Force Recon Marine... then yes, he used way more force than would be needed
even a 60yr old man can kill someone, not that hard co conceal a handgun
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
The fact that people who post stupid things get instant and honest feedback letting them know how stupid they are, is one of the best qualities of the Eve forums.
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.23 15:21:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Buff Plankchest
Edited by: Buff Plankchest on 23/07/2008 04:27:00
There's less lethal, not non-lethal... and no one is going to fire off a CS gas grenade in their house.
Also, less lethal require a lot more skill to use, cost a lot more, and have to be used at a very close range... and at close range things move fast and civilians just can't handle that.
I think this is the real problem, honestly.
No one is arguing that someone doesn't have the right to defend their family and home. The problem is when the only tools capable of doing the job well are lethal, which leads to people getting killed. Just because someone was killed doing something irresponsible, it doesn't make his or her death right (a more nuanced issue, but ideally).
This isn't really about the shooter, it's about the tools we as a society have to defend ourselves from domestic threats and how they fall short in several regards. We need non-lethal weapons that are as effective and as intimidating as guns. It's possible, we just need the funding and political will to develop them.
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.07.23 15:38:00 -
[79]
I see the arguments have finally turned stupid. What if he was confused? What if he was drunk? What if he was a wheelchair bound autistic child being smuggled into the country?
Some of the rest of you seem to be content with losing your 32" plasma flatscreen tv that you worked hard for and some of you seem content with being injured/maimed/killed/****d by some one in your home who isn't supposed to be there. Maybe I should become a burglar since we have so many who are so willing to roll over and let it happen. As for me though, I've got a personal arsenal of around a dozen guns and if the locks on my doors don't deter them, if a barking dog doesn't deter them, then they will meet the business end of a AK-47 and I will not stop to ask them a questionnare about their state of mind or their use of force. Criminals will not think twice about the crime.
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Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.23 15:47:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Arvald on 23/07/2008 15:47:54
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
I see the arguments have finally turned stupid. What if he was confused? What if he was drunk? What if he was a wheelchair bound autistic child being smuggled into the country?
Some of the rest of you seem to be content with losing your 32" plasma flatscreen tv that you worked hard for and some of you seem content with being injured/maimed/killed/****d by some one in your home who isn't supposed to be there. Maybe I should become a burglar since we have so many who are so willing to roll over and let it happen. As for me though, I've got a personal arsenal of around a dozen guns and if the locks on my doors don't deter them, if a barking dog doesn't deter them, then they will meet the business end of a AK-47 and I will not stop to ask them a questionnare about their state of mind or their use of force. Criminals will not think twice about the crime.
0_o.............damn id like to live right next to your house, who needs a security system when you have a one man army living next door (and come on ak47? ill take an m16 over an ak any day)
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
The fact that people who post stupid things get instant and honest feedback letting them know how stupid they are, is one of the best qualities of the Eve forums.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.07.23 15:51:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Arvald
0_o.............damn id like to live right next to your house, who needs a security system when you have a one man army living next door (and come on ak47? ill take an m16 over an ak any day)
Originally by: Yuri Orlov
Of all the weapons in the vast soviet arsenal, nothing was more profitable than Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947. More commonly known as the AK-47, or Kalashnikov. It's the world's most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound amalgamation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it; and they do. The Soviets put the gun on a coin. Mozambique put it on their flag. Since the end of the Cold War, the Kalashnikov has become the Russian people's greatest export. After that comes vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists. One thing is for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.
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Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.23 15:59:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Arvald
0_o.............damn id like to live right next to your house, who needs a security system when you have a one man army living next door (and come on ak47? ill take an m16 over an ak any day)
Originally by: Yuri Orlov
Of all the weapons in the vast soviet arsenal, nothing was more profitable than Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947. More commonly known as the AK-47, or Kalashnikov. It's the world's most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound amalgamation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it; and they do. The Soviets put the gun on a coin. Mozambique put it on their flag. Since the end of the Cold War, the Kalashnikov has become the Russian people's greatest export. After that comes vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists. One thing is for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.
.......ill go back to my hole now -_- *cough*bastard*cough*
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
The fact that people who post stupid things get instant and honest feedback letting them know how stupid they are, is one of the best qualities of the Eve forums.
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:03:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
I've got a personal arsenal of around a dozen guns and if the locks on my doors don't deter them, if a barking dog doesn't deter them, then they will meet the business end of a AK-47 and I will not stop to ask them a questionnare about their state of mind or their use of force. Criminals will not think twice about the crime.
This works for you, but what is the opportunity cost of accidental and wrongful deaths to families and society as a whole? There's nothing wrong with defending your property, but the problem is that while there is a large range of how threatening someone is to your life and property, there are only a few types of means to defend yourself.
No one wants to under react to a threat (because if you do, you will get beaten/robbed/****d/killed), so you will over react by default as a precaution, which leads to someone getting shot 3 times in the head for attempted breaking and entering.
What if there was a weapon that had all the same advantages of a gun but would simply knock someone out for a couple of hours instead of kill them? This is the kind of weapon we need to defend our homes with.
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:11:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
I've got a personal arsenal of around a dozen guns and if the locks on my doors don't deter them, if a barking dog doesn't deter them, then they will meet the business end of a AK-47 and I will not stop to ask them a questionnare about their state of mind or their use of force. Criminals will not think twice about the crime.
This works for you, but what is the opportunity cost of accidental and wrongful deaths to families and society as a whole? There's nothing wrong with defending your property, but the problem is that while there is a large range of how threatening someone is to your life and property, there are only a few types of means to defend yourself.
No one wants to under react to a threat (because if you do, you will get beaten/robbed/****d/killed), so you will over react by default as a precaution, which leads to someone getting shot 3 times in the head for attempted breaking and entering.
What if there was a weapon that had all the same advantages of a gun but would simply knock someone out for a couple of hours instead of kill them? This is the kind of weapon we need to defend our homes with.
IF that kind of weapon was as effective as disabling a person and as easy to use as easy to obtain and as cheap as a normal handgun/bullets shure id definately use it, but as i see it if someone breaks into mu home they their rigths are forfeit and they deserve to get shot/cracked over the head with a baseball bat
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
The fact that people who post stupid things get instant and honest feedback letting them know how stupid they are, is one of the best qualities of the Eve forums.
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Ordais
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:14:00 -
[85]
Problem here is not the kid shot to death, its the kid beeing there at all trying to rob someone. We should look into that.
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Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:14:00 -
[86]
I live in Britain, and to be honest, if someone breaks into my flat they are going to find out the hard way that I am a good fencer and have a nice sword that isn't purely ornamental 
Lets see them try and hit me with a baseball bat when that goes through their legs.
Not shooting them and I doubt it would kill them, but if they break into my flat.... screw the law I have a 9yr old sister.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. |
Plumpy McPudding
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:15:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Tarminic
This works for you, but what is the opportunity cost of accidental and wrongful deaths to families and society as a whole? There's nothing wrong with defending your property, but the problem is that while there is a large range of how threatening someone is to your life and property, there are only a few types of means to defend yourself.
No one wants to under react to a threat (because if you do, you will get beaten/robbed/****d/killed), so you will over react by default as a precaution, which leads to someone getting shot 3 times in the head for attempted breaking and entering.
What if there was a weapon that had all the same advantages of a gun but would simply knock someone out for a couple of hours instead of kill them? This is the kind of weapon we need to defend our homes with.
DON'T TAZE ME BRO!!
__________________________
Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite!
Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream. |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:16:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
I've got a personal arsenal of around a dozen guns and if the locks on my doors don't deter them, if a barking dog doesn't deter them, then they will meet the business end of a AK-47 and I will not stop to ask them a questionnare about their state of mind or their use of force. Criminals will not think twice about the crime.
This works for you, but what is the opportunity cost of accidental and wrongful deaths to families and society as a whole? There's nothing wrong with defending your property, but the problem is that while there is a large range of how threatening someone is to your life and property, there are only a few types of means to defend yourself.
No one wants to under react to a threat (because if you do, you will get beaten/robbed/****d/killed), so you will over react by default as a precaution, which leads to someone getting shot 3 times in the head for attempted breaking and entering.
What if there was a weapon that had all the same advantages of a gun but would simply knock someone out for a couple of hours instead of kill them? This is the kind of weapon we need to defend our homes with.
Again with the 'what if's'. I don't deal with what if's if someone is breaking into my house. I'll repeat, if the locks don't deter them, if the barking dog doesn't deter them, then they WILL meet the business end of a AK-47.
I live by a simple rule in life: You can do anything you want to but YOU have to pay for the consequences.
If you want to rob a house, that's great, just keep in mind it may be your last mistake.
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Plumpy McPudding
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:22:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist
Might I recommend the AK-74 with the GP25 underbarrel grenade launcher?
Finally Zoidberg is a crafty consumer.
Hello...I'll take 8!!
__________________________
Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite!
Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream. |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:22:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist
Might I recommend the AK-74 with the GP25 underbarrel grenade launcher?
Would need a class 3 license for that. No sir, I've got 4 30 round clips, 2 of them being combined. If I can't hit someone at 10-15ft in 60 shots then I deserve whats coming to me.
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