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James Mathews
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Posted - 2008.07.24 12:53:00 -
[1]
Raise your hand if your most common form of communication with ccp includes the words, "I am sorry to inform you but OUR logs indicate" that you are trying to scam us and we will not have it. My current count, 500mil isk in ships in mods.
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Tzigan Jegos
Dirty Gypsies Trading Co.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 12:59:00 -
[2]
so tell me what happened with your eve client when you lost your ship and that you couldn't replicate it at will to abuse the reimbursement petitions.
The dog that trots about finds a bone. - Gypsy proverb |
James Mathews
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Posted - 2008.07.24 13:06:00 -
[3]
I wish I was that smart with comps.
All my occurances have been "Session change now in Progress". That equals death for me apparently.
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Tzigan Jegos
Dirty Gypsies Trading Co.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 13:13:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: James Mathews
I wish I was that smart with comps.
All my occurances have been "Session change now in Progress". That equals death for me apparently.
happened to me too, it sucks. the server should cherck if the client has loaded the grid before it makes the ship visible. trusting the client is a 'no no' in client-server programming though...
The dog that trots about finds a bone. - Gypsy proverb |
Lun Coldwell
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Posted - 2008.07.24 13:24:00 -
[5]
Originally by: James Mathews
I wish I was that smart with comps.
All my occurances have been "Session change now in Progress". That equals death for me apparently.
Been there myself, client locks up and you just know you're "really dead" somewhere on a server far far away. But the logs won't indiciate anything. 
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Allaria Kriss
Minmatar
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.07.24 13:26:00 -
[6]
So far I've been reimbursed several times; just about every time I've died to a bug actually. Even if it was a bug that couldn't be easily reproduced. Lag or slow loading will always be a problem in proving a loss, because you can easily exploit it - If you jump into a 0.0 bubblecamp, for instance, just sit there, die, get podded, then petition saying you couldn't load the grid because of lag. Suddenly CCP has to subsidize half the losses in 0.0. The other half would be from people claiming lag in large 0.0 fleet fights, the kind where lag is a weapon more powerful than any Doomsday.
They can't reimburse every genuine lag-related loss, because if they did, they'd have to replace a large number of false 'lag-related' losses, too.
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Gar Loken
Locasta Tactical
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Posted - 2008.07.24 13:37:00 -
[7]
I was dual accounting the other day, dropped a cyno on one account and jumped into system with my carrier on the other account.
On the cyno account my carrier appeared as normal and sat there...... on the actual carrier account i had empty space, like when you jump into jita and get stuck mid jump. This lasted about 3, 4 minutes until i logged off rather than risk my carrier.
I got 4gb ram, a 8mb net connection, dual core cpu and a 8800gts gfx card... its so NOT my client.
Burn the heritc! |
Seetesh
Caldari
Pixels Docks
Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.24 13:50:00 -
[8]
Oh ive had 3 cnrs lost due to the our logs show nothing speech, i usually get a copy pasted msg until i told the gm not to copy paste me again and got a nicer written response.
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ssbn732
Minmatar
Soldiers of Misfortune
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.07.24 13:55:00 -
[9]
During that ******ed ISP feasco I lost a good 5-6 dronebay loads of T2 drones, OFC, I couldent figure out what to file drone losses under...
A note: I use hamerhead 2s, so thats around 3 mil per crash.
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Tellenta
Gallente
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: James Mathews
Raise your hand if your most common form of communication with ccp includes the words, "I am sorry to inform you but OUR logs indicate" that you are trying to scam us and we will not have it. My current count, 500mil isk in ships in mods.
I have been reimbursed 2 Brutix's and a Domi. This was during a period of time when there was an EVE wide issue and CCP owned up to it. My latest was our logs show that you lost connection after you died, sorry. Oh well 
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Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:10:00 -
[11]
I have never asked for a reimbursement so far. But then maybe i accept that one should not become too attached to their tools in this game or fly what one might lose in a heartbeat but can't afford to easily replace.
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Lily Cole
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:18:00 -
[12]
I've started a new policy on it.
Any time Eve pops a ship thanks to bugs or stupid lag (as opposed to Dodixie lag) and the GMs fail to reimburse, I simply never buy one of those ships again.
When Eve gets too boring to play, I move on. It's inevitable anyway, and GMs always state they are happy for people to quit, idiot moron GMs just speed the process up. |
Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: James Mathews
Raise your hand if your most common form of communication with ccp includes the words, "I am sorry to inform you but OUR logs indicate" that you are trying to scam us and we will not have it. My current count, 500mil isk in ships in mods.
So how many of those cases where based on loses caused by lag or similar such problems?
Are you aware that even if their logs show that you experienced a huge amount of lag, that they would still be unable to reimburse you, as lag does not justify reimbursement?
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Riho
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: James Mathews
Raise your hand if your most common form of communication with ccp includes the words, "I am sorry to inform you but OUR logs indicate" that you are trying to scam us and we will not have it. My current count, 500mil isk in ships in mods.
lag in your case killed your ships
CCP doesnt reinburse ships lost to lag
sucks.. but true.
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Fighting for Minmatar o7
Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Passcal
Darksaber Technologies
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:03:00 -
[15]
Everytime I've pettitioned a loss I've got the ship back. A Scorp, a Raven and two Drakes.
The reason that I've gotten the ships back is that I only petition when the fault was not on my side.
Next time you lose a ship just stop and think 'could I have done anything to avoid that? Could it be what my computer is doing in the background? Could it be that router thats been gradually dying? etc etc.
Also, always give as much information as possible, even if you think it is irrelivent(sp) it may help in any diagnosis steps.
Oh and always be pollite 
Join The Flock
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:04:00 -
[16]
Obviously when the client/server are too lagged to communicate, one of them should point this out to the other.
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DesuSigs |
Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Obviously when the client/server are too lagged to communicate, one of them should point this out to the other.
Pointing out the obvious will not get your ship out of harms way. |
Lily Cole
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Passcal
Next time you lose a ship just stop and think 'could I have done anything to avoid that? Could it be what my computer is doing in the background? Could it be that router thats been gradually dying? etc etc.
Could I have hacked CCP, got the source code to Eve, got rid of the CONCORD bugs that have existed as long as CONCORD have, uploaded fixed source to the tranquility server, rehacked CCP so they didn't notice I'd done anything, THEN engaged the enemy?
That kind of my fault? |
Tzigan Jegos
Dirty Gypsies Trading Co.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:39:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tzigan Jegos on 24/07/2008 15:39:33
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Obviously when the client/server are too lagged to communicate, one of them should point this out to the other.
Pointing out the obvious will not get your ship out of harms way.
Also pointing out the obvious isn't pointing at a practical solution to how one could do that. Clients (users) can't be trusted. Programming 101.
The dog that trots about finds a bone. - Gypsy proverb |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:41:00 -
[20]
Ill shed a couple of tears for you next time I cry.
---
Originally by: Roguehalo
Can you nano Titans?
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tzigan Jegos
Edited by: Tzigan Jegos on 24/07/2008 15:39:33
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Obviously when the client/server are too lagged to communicate, one of them should point this out to the other.
Pointing out the obvious will not get your ship out of harms way.
Also pointing out the obvious isn't pointing at a practical solution to how one could do that. Clients (users) can't be trusted. Programming 101.
Also it would be impossible for the server or client to tell each other anything if they are too lagged to communicate. That's why it was a joke. Ha ha.
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DesuSigs |
Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lily Cole
Originally by: Passcal
Next time you lose a ship just stop and think 'could I have done anything to avoid that? Could it be what my computer is doing in the background? Could it be that router thats been gradually dying? etc etc.
Could I have hacked CCP, got the source code to Eve, got rid of the CONCORD bugs that have existed as long as CONCORD have, uploaded fixed source to the tranquility server, rehacked CCP so they didn't notice I'd done anything, THEN engaged the enemy?
That kind of my fault?
If your ship was lost to a bug in CONCORD's agression rules, and not do to a lack of your understanding of said rules, then your ship should have been reimbursed.
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Tzigan Jegos
Dirty Gypsies Trading Co.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Tzigan Jegos
Edited by: Tzigan Jegos on 24/07/2008 15:39:33
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Obviously when the client/server are too lagged to communicate, one of them should point this out to the other.
Pointing out the obvious will not get your ship out of harms way.
Also pointing out the obvious isn't pointing at a practical solution to how one could do that. Clients (users) can't be trusted. Programming 101.
Also it would be impossible for the server or client to tell each other anything if they are too lagged to communicate. That's why it was a joke. Ha ha.
-if (haven't received any (expected) message from client within (time frame)) then lag=true.
but you can't trust clients. it all boils down to this. client software or network communication between client and servers can be manipulated.
that's why there are only server side logs.
The dog that trots about finds a bone. - Gypsy proverb |
Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Also it would be impossible for the server or client to tell each other anything if they are too lagged to communicate. That's why it was a joke. Ha ha.
Actually that lack of communication is just as informative, thus I said "restating the obvious" as the client can tell that the server/network is lagged if there is lag and it is not the clients fault and vis versa.
The problem is not in lag detection, it is what is to be done when lag is detected.
Because lag can be created on demand by the client, it is not reasonable to take drastic action to protect the players ship.
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Lily Cole
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Matalino
If your ship was lost to a bug in CONCORD's agression rules, and not do to a lack of your understanding of said rules, then your ship should have been reimbursed.
With italics like those, you should be a lead gm.
Unfortunately, the situation is, that if the bug hasn't been whined to hell on the forums in the last week, it isn't a bug.
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Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lily Cole
Originally by: Matalino
If your ship was lost to a bug in CONCORD's agression rules, and not do to a lack of your understanding of said rules, then your ship should have been reimbursed.
With italics like those, you should be a lead gm.
Unfortunately, the situation is, that if the bug hasn't been whined to hell on the forums in the last week, it isn't a bug.
You don't need to whine about it on the forums, you just need to whine about it to a lead GM. 
I know, I have needed to escalate petitions about bugs in the past. You may need to support your claim with full details, but if there is really a bug, they will reimburse.
It is the forum warrior in me that has made me sceptical enough to realize that most of the time people get CONCORD'ed and claim a bug caused it, it is really a matter of them not knowing the rules of engagement.
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Lt Angus
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:53:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Lt Angus on 24/07/2008 15:53:41
Where are you guys finding all these bugs  4 years and never lost a ship to anything out of the ordinary
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lily Cole
I've started a new policy on it.
Any time Eve pops a ship thanks to bugs or stupid lag (as opposed to Dodixie lag) and the GMs fail to reimburse, I simply never buy one of those ships again.
When Eve gets too boring to play, I move on. It's inevitable anyway, and GMs always state they are happy for people to quit, idiot moron GMs just speed the process up.
I'd like you to back this up with killmail postings, please. 
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Fraszoid
Caldari
Condottieri Industries
The Economy
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Posted - 2008.07.24 16:01:00 -
[29]
I have been reimbursed 4 out of 5 times I've petitioned in the last year. Jacqueline 1-5 (Rohk Battleship on level 4 mission) were lost due to lag and reimbursed, less some modules and ammo (was rather amusing because sometimes the gun was not destroyed, but the ammo was so when I got it back there was ammo in some slots but no gun). When Jacqueline 5 when down it was due to my connection (at school on the WiFi and everyone dropped so something big happened) and she was not reimbursed. I got the same ship replaced 4 times so I'm very happy as thats about 800 million I didn't have to build/buy.
I've since boosted my skills to provide a stronger tank, and altered the fit and play more carefully since the best way to avoid having your ship reimbursement denied is to simply not lose the ship. Past 3 days I've dropped 6 times and still escaped with a comfortable buffer on the shield. Total loss, 2 Vespa II that didn't get to the ship in time.
--------------------------------------------------
Everyone is born right handed, only the great over come it.
Check out my players guide at:
http://www.eve-miners.info/guide/minersguide.html |
Faife
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.07.24 16:04:00 -
[30]
i've never gotten a reimbursement, but that's cause i'm not so much a sissy as to beg for one.
sissies.
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