EVE Search - Corps side steping FW in attemps to effect it's outcome.

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Corps side steping FW in attemps to effect it's outcome.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 23 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:29:00 - [31] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Freighter Meh ....but when empire corps can war dec faction war participants for the sole reason of effecting the faction war outcome then that sounds a lot like a exploit to me. Sounds like sound tactics to me. Using guerilla irregulars to target an opponents Command and Control. How on earth is that an 'exploit'? C. Anything another player doesn't like is an exploit. Get with the program.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:35:00 - [32] Originally by: SurrenderMonkey Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Freighter Meh ....but when empire corps can war dec faction war participants for the sole reason of effecting the faction war outcome then that sounds a lot like a exploit to me. Sounds like sound tactics to me. Using guerilla irregulars to target an opponents Command and Control. How on earth is that an 'exploit'? C. Anything another player doesn't like is an exploit. Get with the program. Oh yeah, sorry - forgot I was on the EVE 'logic in the bin' Forums there for a minute. Back on track... What's the whine about again? C. Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:37:00 - [33] Originally by: Jade Constantine The thing you've never really understood Pith, is that the reason I want alliance corps able to join the militias is that I believe the current miltias are just too weak and faction warfare is doomed to stutter and die out unless serious corporations are allowed to join. Most serious corporations join alliances is the reality in the current game setting. I see where you are coming from, but FW is meant for a wide variety of gangs and ships... alliances coming in with capitals galore brings too much of an impact to a tiny gang that wants to run plexes in t1 frigs. I agree FW is a bit weak, but its still quite young, and I'd rather wait for corps and noobs who have been learning pvp to skill up and organize themselves into a strong militia. The last thing I want is for a huge alliance to start choosing sides... we all know one alliance entering any militia can impact it greatly and even dominate. FW isn't doomed... it's meant to be a stepping stone. Players and corps will be in and out like a virgin with a cheap hooker. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:39:00 - [34] Originally by: Jade Constantine Sorry if it hurts your feelings a bit that I think the current corporations involved with the Caldari militia are not that good - but the hard reality is that IF FW was opened up to Alliance corps as well you'd find your faction immeasurably improved in combat capability and challenge and the whole Faction warfare conflict would be re-energized by the involvement of some very serious talent. It was my understanding that one of the big points of FW was that it is supposed to be a place for people who don't normally pvp or are totally new to pvp to pvp - in other words the 'serious talent' you speak of isn't involved in any serious way with FW by design. Back to the original point.. pirates will be pirates and will always find ways to skirt the rules (and then defend their shenanigans vigorously as a valid use of game mechanics). I still have mixed feelings on wardecs. Personally I don't give two shits about my sec rating - if a warring party attacks wartargets in my fleet I'm going to shoot back, I don't care. Other people (far too many other people, IMO) act like it's the end of the world if they ding their 5.0 sec rating. Perhaps this would be a good chance to make occupancy mean something - if you have occupancy the gate guns won't shoot you if you're attacking someone who's aggressed someone else. ---
Heartstone Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:40:00 - [35] Personally I see the ongoing attacks on Jade and Star Fraction in general as simply people not quite getting it. As I see there are two types in FW. The Ones who are there for Cheap Ganks/Free War Targets etc and those who are in it because of the whole backstory and RP element of FW. We are there because of the later reason. If we wanted to "exploit" the mechanics for our own benefit we would have joined up with a Militia so we could Pew Pew as much as we wanted. We all already know tha the Faction Police are a joke and I think it is safe to say would would have been happily operating in Cladari/Amarr/Barney the Dinosaur's space if we had done so. Instead we continued with our RP stance and went after those we saw or were informed were Command and Control corps within the Caldari (for now) structure. We expected hard fights with a number of Militia corps coming to their friends aid with counter decs of their own. We expected Low sec carnage where we used tactics to overcome the massive numbers advantage against us. We expected it to be an enjoyable against the odds fight. Instead we got whining. There was so many options open to the Caldari militia corps in how to deal with us but it seems crying on the forums is the order of the day from a small number of them. Normally I try and see everyone's point of view but this is simply a waste of time for everyone concerned. ---
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:44:00 - [36] Originally by: Pithecanthropus Originally by: Jade Constantine The thing you've never really understood Pith, is that the reason I want alliance corps able to join the militias is that I believe the current miltias are just too weak and faction warfare is doomed to stutter and die out unless serious corporations are allowed to join. Most serious corporations join alliances is the reality in the current game setting. I see where you are coming from, but FW is meant for a wide variety of gangs and ships... alliances coming in with capitals galore brings too much of an impact to a tiny gang that wants to run plexes in t1 frigs. I agree FW is a bit weak, but its still quite young, and I'd rather wait for corps and noobs who have been learning pvp to skill up and organize themselves into a strong militia. The last thing I want is for a huge alliance to start choosing sides... we all know one alliance entering any militia can impact it greatly and even dominate. FW isn't doomed... it's meant to be a stepping stone. Players and corps will be in and out like a virgin with a cheap hooker. I agree with Pith here. Allowing FW to become a measure of large Alliances E-Peen will almost certainly crush the FW mechanics and drive out smaller corps. One of the major attractions of FW is that it allows smaller, younger corps, to 'practice' what life in .0 might be like without the over bearing demands of Alliance leadership: which, rightly or wrongly, can be over powering at times. Sure, FW will slowly diminish in terms of numbers - but then its not meant to be the 'be all and end all' of conflict in EVE. Thats were .0 conflicts come in. However the real issue isnt keeping FW on life support by adding in Alliances, but asking the more pertinent question of why .0 warfare has such high barriers to entry and isnt as appealing as FW. In short, its .0 warfare that needs love, not FW. C. Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
FlameGlow Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:47:00 - [37] Allow to wardec empires as if they were an alliance - you'll be able to attack all corps in FW and all NPC corps of that empire. For that all your assets in this empire's space will be seized and your ships attacked by faction police if they enter. Maybe even deny docking at this empire's stations. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Heartstone Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:56:00 - [38] Originally by: FlameGlow Allow to wardec empires as if they were an alliance - you'll be able to attack all corps in FW and all NPC corps of that empire. For that all your assets in this empire's space will be seized and your ships attacked by faction police if they enter. Maybe even deny docking at this empire's stations. I think you need to get negative standings to the Empire of your choice for the life of your corp as well a restriction on corp hoping as well but if this come in I would more than happy to press the button. ---
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:01:00 - [39] The whole idea of Eve is to force interaction, both violent and diplomatic. For instance...if one organization is causing so much trouble for a supposedly key-member of a militia, the other corporations aligned with that militia need to be wardeccing that organization and kicking their teeth in (or trying.) Not running to the forums and complaining about it. Heck, so far CVA has side-stepped any wardec mechanics altogether and just sucked up the sec status hit. Is that also an exploit, or just good "religious zealotry" roleplay?
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:01:00 - [40] Originally by: Cailais I agree with Pith here. Allowing FW to become a measure of large Alliances E-Peen will almost certainly crush the FW mechanics and drive out smaller corps. I'm not convinced. Remember that most alliance corps out in 0.0 with uber capital assets and whatnot need them out there for pos defense and alarm clock ops and whatnot. I don't see alliances become wholesale involved in FW even if alliance corp FW membership is allowed. What will happen is we'll see CVA and UK and a couple of other RP-friendly alliances being able to help out substantively and sure, some bored pvp corps nominally alligned with 0.0 powers will rotate in from time to time. But it will be naturally balancing. If one side gets more powerful from alliance corp membership then fighting against them will be more attractive for people looking for good pvp. Quote: One of the major attractions of FW is that it allows smaller, younger corps, to 'practice' what life in .0 might be like without the over bearing demands of Alliance leadership: which, rightly or wrongly, can be over powering at times. Yeah partially agree. But I think the "safe zone" mechanic teaches people the wrong things. Elsewhere I've become convinced that replacing the NPC navy spawning with a home ground advantage (enemy militia simply can't dock) is the way to differentiate the FW zones. Quote: Sure, FW will slowly diminish in terms of numbers - but then its not meant to be the 'be all and end all' of conflict in EVE. Thats were .0 conflicts come in. Ah yeah but therein hangs a tale :) Quote: However the real issue isnt keeping FW on life support by adding in Alliances, but asking the more pertinent question of why .0 warfare has such high barriers to entry and isnt as appealing as FW. In short, its .0 warfare that needs love, not FW. Oh I agree for sure. 0.0 warfare is currently pretty bad and likely to get worse and worse in the wake of nano-nerf and continuing cyno jammer/jump bridge broken sovereignty rules. But you need to understand the scale of the fixes required and immediate future of the game. Players want to have fun "now" not in 6/9/12 months whenever CCP get round to fixing 0.0. Its ridiculous to tell pvpers "you shouldn't be having fun in FW you are supposed to be suffering the lag grind fests in 0.0 for the next year until the devs do something about jammers and bridges". Fix to alliance participation in FW is deleting a line of code. Fix to sovereignty in 0.0 and making territorial warfare fun again = a complete re-write of the sov system and throwing away pretty much everything to do with pos warfare as a sovereignty tool. These things really aren't even on the same planet let alone the same ballpark. So here's the hard reality - if you want decent small(ish) unit pvp without getting hotdropped by cap blobs in cyno-jammed systems in 0.0 then FW is the only game in town for the foreseeable future. Without sharding the server you can't prevent people coming to where they need to be to have fun so why not just enable alliance corp affiliation with FW and allow the natural balance of "we want good fights" to settle the sides. And rest assured, independent 3rd force operators like SF will be happy to wardec any side that looks particularly strong to rebalance the odds a bit. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Cuthbert Drake Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Jade Constantine Nowhere in Eve is "safe" for a corporation supporting Tibus Heth and its our intention to break you. Welcome to the war. Nowhere in Eve, but in low sec, eh Jade?
Corewin Achmed Fleet	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:07:00 - [42] Originally by: Jade Constantine And rest assured, independent 3rd force operators like SF will be happy to wardec any side that looks particularly strong to rebalance the odds a bit. Cough lol. Well I say keep it the same. Play it smart and you should be fine. Business as usual.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:08:00 - [43] Originally by: Cuthbert Drake Originally by: Jade Constantine Nowhere in Eve is "safe" for a corporation supporting Tibus Heth and its our intention to break you. Welcome to the war. Nowhere in Eve, but in low sec, eh Jade? I invite you to come and review our killboard for Caldari militia victims in lowsec Cuthbert. Such things aren't exactly rare Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Molock Saronen Edited by: Molock Saronen on 25/07/2008 13:14:12 Uhm.. I think he's talking about something else. How I read this is as follows: If I want to influence FW, I and my corp could wardec FW corps that have good FC's. Because I'm not 'openly' in FW it means I, unlike true FW members, can enter the opponents space without getting attacked by NPC's or other opposing FW members. But I can still attack those FC's. So, for an example he could(in a NON-FW Gallente corp) dec a Caldari FW corp that has a good FC. Next he could fly to Caldari space and without an interferance from other Caldari FW corps, or Caldari NPC's, attack the FC and his corp. Thus hampering the Caldari FW war effort. what are the fc's and corps doing in high sec? shouldnt they be in low sec doing fw?
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:09:00 - [45] please fix topic of thread to say "affect". thank you for your prompt attention. sieg grammar! - -
Cuthbert Drake Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Jade Constantine I invite you to come and review our killboard for Caldari militia victims in lowsec Cuthbert. Such things aren't exactly rare I apologise for my ignorance, Jade. I was under the impression that you camped high sec systems, trying to kill wardecced corp members where fleet can't help them. I further thought that your attempt at doing so in low sec didn't end all that well in that Sujarento POS siege. I guess having a 70 man blob shoot at you can be a bit surprising. But I guess this information is a bit dated, so accept my sincere apologies. I look forward to hearing from you, Cuthbert Drake
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:17:00 - [47] Originally by: Jade Constantine I'm not convinced. Remember that most alliance corps out in 0.0 with uber capital assets and whatnot need them out there for pos defense and alarm clock ops and whatnot. I don't see alliances become wholesale involved in FW even if alliance corp FW membership is allowed. What will happen is we'll see CVA and UK and a couple of other RP-friendly alliances being able to help out substantively and sure, some bored pvp corps nominally alligned with 0.0 powers will rotate in from time to time. I'm convinced... it doesn't take much to jump a cap in and out, but that's besides the point. I don't even really see a reason for alliances in FW. They have they're own burdens, most have space in 0.0, and most already moved into FW with alt's and alt corps. If the only reason is to involve alliances for the need to roleplay, well look at what you are doing now... you're involved. No other measures needed. Also, if you felt the need to actually JOIN, you could do so in a corp, with proper standings... like the rest of us do. Alliances are far too vast and too varied to join... I wouldn't even support having corps in alliances join, because that could lead to 2 corps in the same alliance being at war with different militias! Now... HERE's the hard reality. Alliances just bring too many complications. I applaud CCP for noticing that. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:25:00 - [48] Originally by: Jade Constantine But you need to understand the scale of the fixes required and immediate future of the game. Players want to have fun "now" not in 6/9/12 months whenever CCP get round to fixing 0.0. Its ridiculous to tell pvpers "you shouldn't be having fun in FW you are supposed to be suffering the lag grind fests in 0.0 for the next year until the devs do something about jammers and bridges". Fix to alliance participation in FW is deleting a line of code. Fix to sovereignty in 0.0 and making territorial warfare fun again = a complete re-write of the sov system and throwing away pretty much everything to do with pos warfare as a sovereignty tool. Just because a 'fix' is easy doesnt mean its the right one to take. Yes, Sov, POS warfare, jammers and jump bridges all need a complete review in my opinion if we're ever going to achieve scalability (solo, small gang, large gang, omgwtfthatsabigblob) in warfare anywhere - let alone .0. Thats a big challenge. My thinking is that a solution lies somewhere in the realm of 'small scale objectives' linking in with soveriegnty. i.e through the errosion of smaller obejectives (either in limited small gangs; death of a thousand cuts stylee, or through 'locust swarm' tactics) Sovereignty is destroyed / damaged. But if its worth doing its worth doing so it doesnt suck. If we allow Alliances into FW what will almost certainly happen is CCP will send a mesage that says ".0 warfare is bust at the moment - why not hot drop those carriers into FW??': its not really solving the problem. With hindsight maybe CCP should have fixed .0 warfare first, then introduced FW. But as they say 'hind sight is a wonderful thing'. C. Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
Lucy'Lastic	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:27:00 - [49] A few things to consider: Making it impossible to dec FW corps would mean lots of Corps joining for immunity. Making other militia members able to shoot the agressor would mean lots of Corps joining FW for protection. Making it more expensive to dec FW corps would mean Corps joining for the added protection increased war decs could give them.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:28:00 - [50] Originally by: Cuthbert Drake I further thought that your attempt at doing so in low sec didn't end all that well in that Sujarento POS siege. I guess having a 70 man blob shoot at you can be a bit surprising. I remember that engagement well - we brought 4 Cerbs + 2 ceptors against your 70 man blob right? We lost 2 ceptors and killed a Drake and Raven from our wartargets and bugged out with about 10310390133 missles in the air heading towards our ships - fun! Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Ecky Ptang Achmed Fleet	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:28:00 - [51] As i have pointed out in another thread Jade, your roleplay argument is flawed, as Heth is a nice guy for tolerating an alliance in his space that attacks his militia, a militia that fights for protecting the state against gallante invasion, not for supporting the regime of Heth. On which the only reply gotten was being called 'regressive doggerel'. But alas, i'm deviating. If you really want roleplay, then the state should have negative standing to your fraction, for the simple reason of the course of your actions. Of course that would be too much roleplay for you. really jade, if for one thing i thought you'ld be respectable and consistant, but your just a farce.
Namdor Amarr Section 3	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:34:00 - [52] So, wait... As a Gallente Militia pilot, I'm curious... Is it Star Fraction's fault that I can fly from OMS out to the edge of Caldari high sec and back without ever seeing a war target?
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:44:00 - [53] On the roleplay issue, I don't think Heth has much he could do against a podpilot corporation, especially considering it's all CONCORD jurisdiction. Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.15 16:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Ecky Ptang ... really jade, if for one thing i thought you'd be respectable and consistent, but your just a farce. Well Ecky, its times like this you have to take a long hard look in the mirror you know. As a pilot you've been in FCR (a caldari militia corp we destroyed) and now Achmed Fleet (whom we have so far blown up 38 ships in 5 days of fighting and lost a single interceptor in return). Thats 60 days of fighting and the only participation I see from you personally is a lost caracal and rupture and involvement on 2 killmails in return. You really haven't been trying. Sometimes you need to accept the problem is with yourself. If you had been in all those fights and prepared to risk more than 2 badly fitted tech1 cruisers over the cause of 60 days of war then you might actually have helped change the result perhaps? I've been involved with CSM business, partially on holiday - its the summer lots of cycling and bbqs and whatnot and in the same period I've still managed 53 kill participations so I'm what? 25 times more active than you in this war? Sure, if you had been active and had lost dozens of ships you might claim that we were outclassing you skillwise but the reality is you simply haven't been even trying to fight back. Your corporations keep dying because you don't care enough about them Ecky. Thats not our fault end of the day - we're fighting a war against many corporations simultaneously who have chosen to aid the tyranny of Tibus Heth but at this stage you need to realize that Eve is a hard game and it you aren't prepared to even try when your corps are wardecced by hostiles then you are going to lose wars. So understand why I see you coming to the forums with calls of "exploit" as non-credible. You aren't even trying to fight back so don't pretend there is an imbalance with the war system. In eve the people who care enough to fight win. You have demonstrated that you personally "don't care" and that is why your corps keep dying. Its your choice Ecky, but I have to say as a CEO of a corporation I wouldn't hire somebody with that mindset. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Tiuwaz Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.08.15 17:05:00 - [55] Originally by: Jade Constantine We are roleplaying post-nationalist anarcho capitalist freedom fighters <3 ___________________________________
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.15 17:13:00 - [56] Originally by: Jade Constantine You aren't even trying to fight back so don't pretend there is an imbalance with the war system. In eve the people who care enough to fight win. You have demonstrated that you personally "don't care" and that is why your corps keep dying. Its your choice Ecky, but I have to say as a CEO of a corporation I wouldn't hire somebody with that mindset. I don't know the deal here, so I SHOULD just shut up and not comment. HOWEVER... I am Pit and this is what I do... so I'll say this... First off, any pvper knows kills mean diddly. Second, people are in FW not to fight you, thus perhaps why no one goes out of their way to attack you. Cuz you see, that would be then giving you what you want... taking resources away from FW to fight you... and quite frankly SF doesn't matter to the militia that much. I take it as I see it... you get ego trips on bullying targets. Chestpopping around, when we all damn well know any threat against you means you'll station hug or run off to Gallente space. I've seen it. I've witnessed first hand how your pvp style is simply one gank after another.... waiting for dominant numbers, then warping in on solo targets. You don't pvp, Jade... you make a mokery of it all. And it shows, by the lame tactics you've chosen. So hide at your safe spots... wait for that lonely Caracal to undock... and get your jollies when you warp in with your uber crow, jam, and call in your muppets to beat him down with 7 HACs. Then turn around and beat your chests. Great fun, for a role playing corp... --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Ecky Ptang Achmed Fleet	Posted - 2008.08.15 17:14:00 - [57] after having skimmed your wall of text there are a few incorectnesses. for one i am a beginning pilot as factional warfare was intended for, so flying something bigger was skillwise not an option. it doesnt show my involvment, it shows your big bully factor. and with 4 pilots online at a time i see no point in fighting a 14 man t2 ship gang. second thing, i never called exploit, i simply state an improvement to enhance both our roleplaying indulgment.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.15 17:16:00 - [58] Originally by: Dirk Magnum You do realize that preventing third parties from having any meaningful way of affecting Faction War is just another slide down the slippery slope to consensual PvP and arena-style combat. This does not belong in Eve, no matter how many people complain about it This. The OP wants consensual combat - he wants to be safe in his faction high-sec and pew-pew at ease when prepared for it by coming to low-sec. Cry me a river. The entirety of EvE has a wardec on me (I'm -10) and I get by OK. If you want to live in a corp, then you shouldn't have 100% protection in high-sec. At least you know when someone's coming for you, a privilege I don't have. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.15 17:18:00 - [59] Edited by: Rhatar Khurin on 15/08/2008 17:18:09 Quote: Pithecanthropus That sounds like a valid Guerrilla warfare strategy
Corewin Achmed Fleet	Posted - 2008.08.15 17:21:00 - [60] Originally by: Rhatar Khurin Edited by: Rhatar Khurin on 15/08/2008 17:18:09 Quote: Pithecanthropus That sounds like a valid Guerrilla warfare strategy Sounds like ganking. Pith just won this thread Hands Down.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 23 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.