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Scrutt5
Snuff inc
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Posted - 2008.07.26 00:20:00 -
[1]
Having spent a few hours discussing the proposed changes I love the ideas.
More balanced gangs, new tactics and the opportunity for radicaly different set-ups.
Start thinking out of the box gents, in 6 months I'm confident you'll ever wonder why we played the way we did for so long.
R.I.P Noob fight club and nano's. 
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Scrutt5
Snuff inc
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Posted - 2008.07.26 00:20:00 -
[2]
Having spent a few hours discussing the proposed changes I love the ideas.
More balanced gangs, new tactics and the opportunity for radicaly different set-ups.
Start thinking out of the box gents, in 6 months I'm confident you'll ever wonder why we played the way we did for so long.
R.I.P Noob fight club and nano's.
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sableye
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 00:27:00 -
[3]
well I am up for any change cause without change the game seem stagnants and since I never been a speed demon I guess these changes suit me great.
Join The Fight With Promo Today
View The North Star! |
Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.26 00:29:00 -
[4]
Unpossible! This will be the death of EVE and non-blob combat, no one will ever buy a HAC again, Minmatar Recons will self-destruct upon undock, and blasters will now damage the ship they're fitted to instead of the enemy!
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
kryptteacher
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Posted - 2008.07.26 00:31:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Tarminic
Unpossible! This will be the death of EVE and non-blob combat, no one will ever buy a HAC again, Minmatar Recons will self-destruct upon undock, and blasters will now damage the ship they're fitted to instead of the enemy!
lol
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DubanFP
Caldari
Out of Order
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 00:37:00 -
[6]
Edited by: DubanFP on 26/07/2008 00:42:59
Originally I didn't like the changes because they were poorly done and I know they'd just be replaced by something else. Now I almost want them to go through because it would introduce ideas more overpowered d then anything EVE has ever by an order of many magnatudes.
Pilgrim/curse: AB, tracking disruptors, no tracking dones with the already powerful nuets and cloak to start close on the pilgrim?
AB/Tracking disruptor: anything AB/TD for that matter
15km Lachesis: MWD at 15km while disabiling the MWD of anything else and no tracking missiles?
Huginn Overlords: Lets face it. The Huginn's abillity to dictate range with the fall of it's best counters, other nanos, the webs means nothing will knock out it's MWD that won't instantly be vaporized anyways. Good luck getting anywhere close in a AB ship. It can spare the web bonus for what it gets in return.
Assault Frigates: Nothing that can hit an AB frigate this small at close range can survive against it. Besides another AF that is. It's just too powerful for another frigate to face head on.
Any Missile boat: Immunity to the tracking issues of the new MWD. Imagine the massive damage of a Torp raven, 6 slots for tracking disruptors, immunity to tracking disruptors, and a speed setup itself. Brings back the old Ewar Raven * 100. What's a little armor tank against complete immunity to turrets.
This is just what I've seen so far. I already know something that's worse then anything on the list. and i'm sure there's other ways to abuse the things on the list as well. CCP impliment this. I DARE YOU. Don't know about anyone else but I'll have fun .
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CCP Atropos > I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears. |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 00:40:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 26/07/2008 00:43:32
Whines are pretty funny. Remember when Nanos got nerfed? Had the same bunch of peeps trying to claim that a BS being able to outspeed some ceptors was balanced 
edit:
Originally by: DubanFP
Pilgrim/curse: AB, tracking disruptors
Used to be fairly common pre-nosnerf actually. Plus the Pilgrim isn't very good atm.
Quote:
Assault Frigates: Nothing that can hit an AB frigate this small at close range can survive against it. Besides another AF that is.
Isn't this a good thing? AFs have needed this for a long time
Just IMO
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GallenteCitizen20080615
Gallente
Federation War News
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Posted - 2008.07.26 00:40:00 -
[8]
you wanna know what cool
flying a smartbomb BS in a squad of nano squad and letting them off early :)
the kids get real popular with that
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SSteejans
El Corporation de Newbs
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Posted - 2008.07.26 00:49:00 -
[9]
this nerf is not very thought out.
with this proposed nerf several entire ship classes become suicidal to fly and/or useless.
recons.. all of them for the most part, will be too slow to get out of harms way, and theyre all paper thin. the curse is not even more useless.
cepters would now be slow enough for a caracl to kill them, or any ship with warrior IIs will kill them. cepters now cant tackle, which is their entire point.
on the recon note, a huggin is now game over for anything quick(if that would still exist outside of frigs)
it hits them with a web, they now have no mwd and theyre slow, drones kill them. at the same time, if someone looks at a rapier/huggin funny, theyre dead due to having much much lower speed and agility.
recons and cepters are now useless. so who tackles?
ccp, you want to make combat less static like it is now when two slow battleships web eachother and slug it out.. now everything is going to be tanked, slow, and static. great thinking. please, for the love of god dont impliment this nerf and completely change the way the game plays. such major changes are NEVER good.
think this through a bit more. youre not making anything better.
even more important, there is NOTHING wrong with speed now!!!!
everything has a counter currently. if you make these changes, everything is already countered. everything will need to just be tanked and slow. NOOOO!!!
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DubanFP
Caldari
Out of Order
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 00:54:00 -
[10]
Edited by: DubanFP on 26/07/2008 00:55:26
Originally by: SSteejans
recons.. all of them for the most part, will be too slow to get out of harms way, and theyre all paper thin.
Are you kidding me? Most of the the recons, except the falcon which wont' change much, will be ungodly if you use the right. With the web nerf AB/TD on the no tracking pilgrim/curse will be awesome while the lachesis' scram boost can wipe out your opponent's MWD long before they can wipe out your own. They'll be a bit picky fliers but i bet the pilgrim and lachesis will be nearly untouchable in the right hands. You already mentioned what the huginn gains.
These ships will probebly be more overpowed then anything EVE has ever seen before. EVE will then promote Ganking them with as many web fit players as you can to kill them which is bad.
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CCP Atropos > I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears. |
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GallenteCitizen20080615
Gallente
Federation War News
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Posted - 2008.07.26 00:55:00 -
[11]
cant wait ..... my lachesis has been gathering dust =(
need a duster QUICK
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Dextrome
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Posted - 2008.07.26 01:01:00 -
[12]
Hooray AFs would be worth flying again! Some ship classes will be useless after these changes, maybe but right now whole weapon classes are useless. Can't wait for these changes.
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GallenteCitizen20080615
Gallente
Federation War News
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Posted - 2008.07.26 01:08:00 -
[13]
im excited to see how the people of this fair universe of new eden change there set up.. i defiently hope we see some out of the box fittings that work
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Neslo
Gallente
No Angels Here
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Posted - 2008.07.26 01:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Scrutt5
Having spent a few hours discussing the proposed changes I love the ideas.
More balanced gangs, new tactics and the opportunity for radicaly different set-ups.
Start thinking out of the box gents, in 6 months I'm confident you'll ever wonder why we played the way we did for so long.
R.I.P Noob fight club and nano's.
Oohhhh you are sooo gonna get flamed.... but you know what... when the man is right... he's right. Oh... Hiya Scrtt5 o/
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Sig Begins
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...This thread is soooo doing it wrong... |
SSteejans
El Corporation de Newbs
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Posted - 2008.07.26 01:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 26/07/2008 00:57:39
Originally by: SSteejans
recons.. all of them for the most part, will be too slow to get out of harms way, and theyre all paper thin.
Are you kidding me? Most of the the recons, except the falcon which wont' change much, will be ungodly if you use the right. With the web nerf AB/TD on the no tracking pilgrim/curse will be awesome while the lachesis' scram boost can wipe out your opponent's MWD long before they can wipe out your own. They'll be a bit picky fliers but i bet the pilgrim and lachesis will be nearly untouchable in the right hands. You already mentioned what the huginn gains.
These ships will probebly be on the order of many magnatudes more overpowered then anything EVE has ever seen in it's 5 year history. Along with several others. The nano-age won't end if this get's implimented. If anything it will probebly enter a golden age. EVE will then promote Ganking them with as many web fit players as you can to kill them which just makes things worse.
problem is a caracal can kill them.
so a huggin/lachesis/whatever shuts down my mwd at 30 kms. ok cool. my guns or missiles can still hit them, and they wont be able to a) nano to mitigate some of the damage B) flee fast enough.
they gain a neat trick, but lose their ability to GTFO or avoid damage.
in small gangs this makes them extremely vulnerable. if they cant shut down everyone who is going after them, they will take hits. because they can not fly fast enough to avoid some of this damage, or get out fast, they die.
for solo, the huggin is even more powerful with the changes. (maybe overpowered now?)
also.. the curse is even more ruined. he cant do jack to stop a thorax from mwding up to him, or a caracal from spamming heavy missiles into his side.
as it is the curse is in the lower end of being fast enough to avoid damage enough to survive.(unless you have very expensive fittings and implants)
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.26 01:57:00 -
[16]
Originally by: SSteejans
they gain a neat trick, but lose their ability to GTFO or avoid damage.
in small gangs this makes them extremely vulnerable. if they cant shut down everyone who is going after them, they will take hits. because they can not fly fast enough to avoid some of this damage, or get out fast, they die.
How so? With the stacking nerf, a gallente recon would likely fit 2 polycarbs and 1 or 2 overdrives, leaving it 2-3 slots for either inertia stabs or a buffer tank to give them extra GTFO time.
Quote:
also.. the curse is even more ruined. he cant do jack to stop a thorax from mwding up to him, or a caracal from spamming heavy missiles into his side.
Two tracking disruptors will remove the Thorax's ability to hit you, and medium ECM drones (which the curse or pilgrim has ample room for) will hamper a missile ship's ability to harm you. Stay in close and scoop the drones once he's jammed, then deploy combat drones while using nos or neuts on him. Not a foolproof strategy but hardly uncounterable.
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.07.26 01:57:00 -
[17]
I don't know how to adapt! 
Seriously, the changes sound cool, IMO.
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GallenteCitizen20080615
Gallente
Federation War News
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Posted - 2008.07.26 01:59:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
I don't know how to adapt!
Seriously, the changes sound cool, IMO.
easy you take of those junky speed mods and you wait for it... add the designed tank for the ship =)
and then adjust it for you style of play, gop to sisi and have a good rummage around with you set ups and then your king of PVP ( under me of course :P )
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
We are pleased to aim!
Or was that the other way around?
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Mia Archer
Amarr
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.26 02:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
I don't know how to adapt!
Seriously, the changes sound cool, IMO.
A serious problem with these changes is that there are alot of ppl who your exactly right DONT know how to adapt so having lost their precious nanos what will they do? blob more than they already do because its the only other thing they can think of. Servers already cant handle the current blobbing.
Combined with the servers rediculous inability to deal with even moderatlly sized engagements with a couple hundred on both sides, who the **** cares about if nanos are OPed or not fix the ****ing servers so we can actually activate modules wiht more than 400 ppl in local and then it might actually be an issue, as it is in pretty much any major 0.0 fleet fight nanos don't do anything because you cant do jack shit to use them correctly anyway.
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Allen Ramses
Caldari
Typo Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.26 04:19:00 -
[20]
It's kinda funny when the "Adapt or die" card gets thrown right back into the faces of those who played it .
____________________
Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK.
Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. |
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gtcsellalt
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Posted - 2008.07.26 04:25:00 -
[21]
its just boring gameplay now... like the game wasnt already caps/blob online
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Motaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.26 04:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 26/07/2008 01:33:02
Originally I didn't like the changes because they were poorly done and I know they'd just be replaced by something else. Now I almost want them to go through because it would introduce ideas more overpowered then anything EVE has ever seen by an order of many many magnatudes.
Pilgrim/curse: AB, tracking disruptors, no tracking dones with the already powerful nuets and cloak to start close on the pilgrim?
AB/Tracking disruptor: anything AB/TD for that matter
15km Lachesis: MWD at 15km while disabiling the MWD of anything else and no tracking missiles?
Huginn Overlords: Lets face it. The Huginn's abillity to dictate range with the fall of it's best counters, other nanos, the webs means anything that can knock out it's MWD will instantly be vaporized anyways. Good luck getting anywhere close to it in a AB ship. It can spare the web bonus for what it gets in return.
Assault Frigates: Nothing that can hit an AB frigate this small at close range can survive against it. Besides another AF that is. It's just too powerful for another frigate to face head on and anything larger won't be able to damage it anyways. Only a blob or another AF can kill an AF.
Any Missile boat: Immunity to the tracking issues of the new MWD. Imagine the massive damage of a Torp raven, 6 slots for tracking disruptors, immunity to tracking disruptors, and a speed setup itself. Brings back the old Ewar Raven * 100. What's a little armor tank against complete immunity to turrets.
This is just what I've seen so far. I already know something that's worse then anything on the list. and i'm sure there's other ways to abuse the things on the list as well. CCP impliment this. I DARE YOU. Don't know about anyone else but I'll have fun .
What part of assault frigate is confusing you dunban?its a tech 2 hard hitting frigate it not an interceptor its job is to wreck havoc amongst other frigates ie interceptors.
plz plz try to get that into you head ffs.
_______________________________________________
Motaka ~ DirtyHarry ~ Original F-E Material |
SSteejans
El Corporation de Newbs
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:41:00 -
[23]
Edited by: SSteejans on 26/07/2008 12:44:05
Originally by: Tarminic
How so? With the stacking nerf, a gallente recon would likely fit 2 polycarbs and 1 or 2 overdrives, leaving it 2-3 slots for either inertia stabs or a buffer tank to give them extra GTFO time.
Quote:
also.. the curse is even more ruined. he cant do jack to stop a thorax from mwding up to him, or a caracal from spamming heavy missiles into his side.
Two tracking disruptors will remove the Thorax's ability to hit you, and medium ECM drones (which the curse or pilgrim has ample room for) will hamper a missile ship's ability to harm you. Stay in close and scoop the drones once he's jammed, then deploy combat drones while using nos or neuts on him. Not a foolproof strategy but hardly uncounterable.
with the stacking nerf they will be boned if theyre scrammed. from how i read it it sounds like everything will be slower and less agile.
do you fly the curse?
your tactic sounds great on paper but after 10 seconds that thorax is going to rip the curse apart. the last thing any curse pilot wants is to be close. also this nagates the range of the neuts on a curse. to really use a curse to its fullest you need to be moving fast enough outside of web range to mitigate drone(to an extent) and missile damage as TDs wont stop a heavy missile. usually as a rule, a webbed curse is a dead curse if there is any dps behind that web.
i think a better idea would be to look at specific ships that are offenders of the "too fast for its class" rule. changing everything about how modules and combat works all at once will only lead to further imbalance. it took over a year to get to where we are now from when a domi could turn like a cepter and go 9km/s.
currently i see nothing wrong with the speed ships can go. to get most ships to go "too fast" requires a LOT of effort and isk.
theres just too much whining about nanos right now and not enough thinking of counters imo.
i feel this change will only limit gameplay and fitting options, and will throw off the balance of many ships.
my main being an amarr pilot, i can think of a few ships that will suffer from the changes and a few that will just be wtf:
nano sacrilege - not a broken ship as is
nano zealot - may or may not break it, as it is its not the fastest or most nimble thing around
nano cerb - will be slow cerb
huggin - solowtfpwnmobile if it can double web and shut off someones mwd.
arazu - shuts down mwd and scrams from miles.. also will be rediculously deadly
curse - too slow to avoid damage methinks. its already on the razors edge of NEEDING low grade snakes to work well
nanophoon - neat ship i think. not too nuts(usually)
vagabond - yeah it goes fast. its meant to. it still cant hit anything while orbiting at 5kms, as much as it may shock people, i think its balanced.
basically all HACs and recons will either have few viable fittings due to being too thin to stand and fight, or be too powerful in a 1v1 situation.
if speed is such an issue right now ccp needs to come up with a way to fix it that doesnt change EVERYTHING. it will take ages to balance things out again and we will still have broken ships, and very possibly far more broken ships.
most of these changes either dont effect me, or effect me positively while im in shiny golden ships. either way i dont think it needs to be done.
less nano crying.
less game shatterying changes.
more creative thinking.
/essay
oh yeah, boost amarr
edit: edited for reading comprehention. spelling still sucks, deal with it.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:52:00 -
[24]
Quote:
also.. the curse is even more ruined. he cant do jack to stop a ... caracal from spamming heavy missiles into his side.
A nanocurse that can avoid all damage from turrets, missiles, drones whilst being as resistant to all forms of E-War as it is would only be overpowered. So it's not completely immune to missiles; great, why should it be?
Quote:
i feel this change will only limit gameplay and fitting options, and will throw off the balance of many ships.
Care to explain how exactly?
Cause, on the contrary, I think it'l boost them. I now have a choice between fitting a Disruptor or Scrambler. I now have a choice between fitting MWD or going AB. I don't need to fit Launcher Rigs on my Cerb to get my Anti-Frigate missiles to do damage to a Cruiser.
Gatecamps will also be less effective since the camp would need a Huginn+Lachesis to stop someone MWDing back to a gate; and even then they stand a greater chance of getting there than they do now.
The MWD/Disruptor/Web/Injector combo might actually variate somewhat. Might even see some AB/Scrambler 'Saders. Imagine that?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:36:00 -
[25]
you know after the changes a cruse an a scimitar/other logistics ship will eat anything.
think about it you stay at 30-40 km from each other and if he goes after the logtisics ship the scimtar is still fast and the target is getting nueted to death, if he goes for the cruse he never kills it.
plus ecm drones and all that jazz.
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Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: SSteejans
also.. the curse is even more ruined. he cant do jack to stop a thorax from mwding up to him, or a caracal from spamming heavy missiles into his side.
as it is the curse is in the lower end of being fast enough to avoid damage enough to survive.(unless you have very expensive fittings and implants)
OMG, you can only nano fit a curse and CCP RUINED IT !?!?!?! 
Why don't you neut the Thorax's guns off, and melt him with drones? Why don't you laugh at a Caracal calls damage and melt him with your drones.
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Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Atreus Danerun
Amarr
Caldari Bank
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Posted - 2008.07.26 23:31:00 -
[27]
Choose your side! "FOR" or "AGAINST" and then we shall see what CCP has to say.
Originally by: GO VOTE
AGAINST THE "NANO" NERF
FOR THE "NANO" NERF
T2 SALES & SERVICE
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PhantomVyper
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.07.26 23:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: SSteejans
also.. the curse is even more ruined. he cant do jack to stop a thorax from mwding up to him, or a caracal from spamming heavy missiles into his side.
as it is the curse is in the lower end of being fast enough to avoid damage enough to survive.(unless you have very expensive fittings and implants)
What?! What exactly stops the curse from still fitting a MWD and completely drain the Thorax cap in 1-2 cycles?! What prevents the Curse from setting med ECM drones on the Thorax from the beguining of the fight while it drains its cap?! What prevents a Curse from fitting 1-2 TDs and completely negating the Thorax guns?!
Do YOU even fly a Curse?! The comment about a crapacal killing a Curse makes me believe that you've never seen one in action...
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cheese monkey
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.27 00:00:00 -
[29]
well, that was the last thing i enjoyed. is it 4 or 5 nano nerfs so far? Its literally depressing. think they would loose my 3 accounts subscriptions.
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SSteejans
El Corporation de Newbs
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Posted - 2008.07.27 11:15:00 -
[30]
Edited by: SSteejans on 27/07/2008 11:17:05
Originally by: PhantomVyper
Originally by: SSteejans
also.. the curse is even more ruined. he cant do jack to stop a thorax from mwding up to him, or a caracal from spamming heavy missiles into his side.
as it is the curse is in the lower end of being fast enough to avoid damage enough to survive.(unless you have very expensive fittings and implants)
What?! What exactly stops the curse from still fitting a MWD and completely drain the Thorax cap in 1-2 cycles?! What prevents the Curse from setting med ECM drones on the Thorax from the beguining of the fight while it drains its cap?! What prevents a Curse from fitting 1-2 TDs and completely negating the Thorax guns?!
Do YOU even fly a Curse?! The comment about a crapacal killing a Curse makes me believe that you've never seen one in action...
yeah i do fly the curse, and i know what it can do. key word being can though.
i cant afford a low grade snake set and faction gear for my curse. so as it is i can fly about 3km/s. after this nerf how fast might i go?
i know the curse if flown with expensive implants and faction gear is game over for most ships, but not all of them are like that!
have you ever flown a curse with a non-nano fit? i havnt, because from all i can tell(and all ive heard) is it sucks.
my complaint is mainly that i think nano ships are not a problem right now. nano WAS an issue when a domi could outrun and outmanuever an inty, that was stupid...
there are too many ways to beat nanos currently for it to be worthy of such a massive change to combat as a whole.
i also think such a huge change is a bad idea as it will break a lot of ships and fits, by either making them useless or too powerful.
change IS good, but such a massive change all at once without proper testing is not good, and we all know these changes wont get the testing they would really need to get out any "bugs" before its on TQ.
cliffs:
1. i fly the curse
2. curse is borderline without a large isk investment currently
3. my gripe isnt that my curse will suck, but more that massive change is bad
4. imo, lots of ships will break, either too useless or too strong
5. these changes will never get tested enough to fix all the strange and broken things it will cause
6. i dont think nano and speed is a problem currently
7. as "proof" im not whining about my fleet of nano ships being nerfed: i fly one "nano" ship besides the curse, which i fly rarely. it has two overdrives. thats it. no polys, no snakes, no nanofibers even. outside of that, its all "normal" fits.
edit: if these changes go live, i will fly nothing but pilgrims. 
fakeedit: boost amarr. yeah. thats it. forget nanos. boost amarr 
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