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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Luzz Bightyear	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:10:00 - [1] I like EVE-O. It's a solid game, considering the amount of content. But when you have to block dozens of ISK sellers spamming their websites across the channels to be able to communicate with the wider ingame populous properly, you know something is terribly wrong. I'd like to know what's being done about them. If anything at all. ------------------ DO WANT (I know it's a miner and not a gun, I'm lazy )
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:15:00 - [2] Its getting worse >< even if eve online is automatically blocking them they got 5 bots going all at once making a new character so its almost a new spammer every minute ><. New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
FluterEx Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:09:00 - [3] Edited by: FluterEx on 26/07/2008 10:09:30 Originally by: Nova Fox Its getting worse >< even if eve online is automatically blocking them they got 5 bots going all at once making a new character so its almost a new spammer every minute ><. Unfortunatley hats true. And to answer the Ops question: ISK sellers get banned but the post that i quoted shows that it is almost useless because they just keep comin back again with new chars. --------------------------------------- Only the dead have seen the end of war.
astowv Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:27:00 - [4] solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS ---- --- CCP Navigator is watching me. It scares me !
FluterEx Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:35:00 - [5] Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS That would be a solution but how are new players supposed to test the game then ? --------------------------------------- Only the dead have seen the end of war.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:36:00 - [6] No free trials, and your missing lots of new players. But eh, we don't need new players in EvE. Our population count is great! Sarcasm aside, my only suggestion would be to limit the isk spammers to using local and noob corp chat. They shouldn't be able to join anything accept maybe the help channel. They can listen in, but not communicate, that sort of thing. This means that a spammer can still spam in noob corp, help channel and local. Personally, I want local shut down completely as an intel tool, and if that happened, I'd close the channel, just like constellation chat. Noob corps are notorious for being homes to macro miners, carebears and spy alts. Whatever. The sooner a new player finds a good, strong corp to play with, the better off he'll be. And there are other NPC corps that a carebear or macro miner can join. And the help channel ... isn't that moderated? Genesis Project
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:41:00 - [7] Edited by: McDonALTs on 26/07/2008 10:42:44 Free trials are not going to chance anything. Carebear Corp/Alliance CEO are some of the biggist isk sellers ingame. Many regions can make 100bil+ a month from mining moon minerals and converting them into t2 components. A certain carebear corp in the north has its members do mining ops which go to building Motherships for sale for $$$. Others have its members ratting all day and tax and refining tax goes straight into alliance executer pockets. Most of these corps wouldhave members who would never suspect their ceo to be a isk seller A lot of people fail to relise that most of the biggist isk farmers are their happy friendly western CEO. You know, the guy who says "farmers are bad" to his unsuspecting members with one hand while selling motherships for $$$ with another.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:42:00 - [8] Originally by: Nova Fox Its getting worse >< even if eve online is automatically blocking them they got 5 bots going all at once making a new character so its almost a new spammer every minute ><. Have to say, that's not really true. Went away fod a good while from EVE and the ISK selling is same/if not lower then when i left. People always say "it's getting worse" or "it's worse then", when actually it's quite a nice status quo or even going in the right direction. All depends on the day My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:42:00 - [9] But yeah, to continue trial account restrictions (using methods from other games): - Trial accounts aren't allowed out of .5 space. Eh, I use trial spies all the time. I know the exploit is there, and I HAVE made profit off of it. And I honestly think that this is the best way to stop it from being misused. - Trial accounts can access, but neither talk nor type in other channels. - Trial accounts can't send mail. - Trial accounts can't leave the beginner corporations. (of course, this means that real, live new players would be overwhelmed with spam ... hmm) All these precedents, from the mail to the limited channel access, are made use of in some shape, form or fashion in other games. So it can be done successfully. Genesis Project
Sythyss Twilight Trading Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.26 11:09:00 - [10] Edited by: Sythyss on 26/07/2008 11:09:19 I agree wtih Ruze. These very, very simple implentations will solve some huge problems we have.
luminous russula	Posted - 2008.07.26 11:12:00 - [11] i can see why they would wonna block all those characters spamming in the chats for isk, but i see no reazon why ccp would want to ban the characters who macromine (although they are owned by the same people), and those are the problem, for they supply the isk to be sold. macrominers pay for the game like you and me, and there is allot of them, what would ccp gain by banning all of them? its the same in all mmos, those who bot pay for the game as well, and as long as they dont become too much of a problem for the other players to stop playing, the company itself has no reason to ban them, they still pay a monthly fee... also the market would colapse without them as they are the main source of basic minerals... but that could in fact make the mining proffesion alittle better for the normal player...
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.26 11:17:00 - [12] The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. No charges to it, no obligations against it - just require one. The problem with banning isk sellers is their immediate return - if they have to get a new credit card each time to return, it becomes more complicated. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Lougra Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.26 11:52:00 - [13] Originally by: Ruze But yeah, to continue trial account restrictions (using methods from other games): - Trial accounts aren't allowed out of .5 space. Eh, I use trial spies all the time. I know the exploit is there, and I HAVE made profit off of it. And I honestly think that this is the best way to stop it from being misused. - Trial accounts can access, but neither talk nor type in other channels. - Trial accounts can't send mail. - Trial accounts can't leave the beginner corporations. (of course, this means that real, live new players would be overwhelmed with spam ... hmm) All these precedents, from the mail to the limited channel access, are made use of in some shape, form or fashion in other games. So it can be done successfully. Youre right. Cut them all off. But in the end will be only one. The greater of all http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=544711 follow this link. Carebear is the surname that others gives you, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
Alamut Ibn'haboob	Posted - 2008.07.26 11:59:00 - [14] As things currently stand, many more players prefer to simply block ISK Spammers in comparison to those who actually take the time to report them. I understand the thought process behind this (as do most of you who read this): report the spammer via the in game petition system, GM takes action (although response times ARE getting slower) and ISK spammer creates a new toon to continue spamming. The petitioning process takes more than a few keystrokes of a player's time, and honestly there's no real positive reinforcement for players to do so. Should CCP discontinue the 14 day trial? As some of you have pointed out, it would be a viable method through which to put a stop to all but the most "hardened" ISK Spammers. On the other hand, the 14 day trial that CCP offers EVE-Online interested parties has brought more than just a few new faces to game keeping a steady flow of cash into CCP coffers. I doubt that this would be an acceptable course of action to CCP. I've seen the effect that a group of Caldari State War Academy pilot's petitions have had on one particular ISK Spammer -- at first this individual was quite persistant in creating new toons with which to spam his offerings. Now I see him spamming less in Caldari State War Academy chat and more in local. I believe this to be due to the perserverance of this group of individuals petitioning him every time he shows his face again. Granted, the majority of the SWA chat members simply block him but the time those who DO report him, cost him in terms of new toon creation, appears to be having the desired effect. I feel that CCP could (in a patch) create a more streamlined method of reporting ISK Spammers which requires fewer keystrokes, which would encourage more players to create ISK Spammer petitions. In line with this, perhaps some type of reward for doing so would be further positive reinforcment for creating said petitions. After placing this on the proverbial platter for players, it would then be up to CCP and the EVE-Online GM Team to work on weeding out spammers via DIRECT contact with ISK Spammer webspace providers. I'm sure some of you will scoff at what I've suggested. You're entitled to your opinions just as I'm entitled to mine. These are my "two bits" for the sake of suggestion.
Michelle Vega	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Lui Kai The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. No charges to it, no obligations against it - just require one. The problem with banning isk sellers is their immediate return - if they have to get a new credit card each time to return, it becomes more complicated. This finally sounds like a good idea.
Kelron Queldine Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:01:00 - [16] I hardly see any ISK sellers now, the trade channels used to be infested with them. Where are they still found with enough frequency to prompt a forum whine?

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:52:00 - [17] Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD

Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:55:00 - [18] those of us that remember diablo2 will remember the insane amount of bots going threw room to room spamming TONS of stuff. diabo3 is coming too WOOT
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:57:00 - [19] Originally by: Ruze But yeah, to continue trial account restrictions (using methods from other games): - Trial accounts aren't allowed out of .5 space. Eh, I use trial spies all the time. I know the exploit is there, and I HAVE made profit off of it. And I honestly think that this is the best way to stop it from being misused. - Trial accounts can access, but neither talk nor type in other channels. - Trial accounts can't send mail. - Trial accounts can't leave the beginner corporations. (of course, this means that real, live new players would be overwhelmed with spam ... hmm) All these precedents, from the mail to the limited channel access, are made use of in some shape, form or fashion in other games. So it can be done successfully. i suggested most of those in a post long ago, and no one liked them then. maybe they will listen now! (just like the nano-phag nerf)
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:05:00 - [20] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD I think I like the credit card requirement better, but this idea seems quite promising. Encouraging new Eve recruitment through the players already in game might result in a better proportion of people entering the game better prepared for what it contains. Personally I think I was too frustrated with the game after a week to want to sign up. In fact, I think I waited until about a week after my trial expired before I actually started my subscription. So shorter trial periods may not be the best move, but I do at least support further limitations on trial accounts (RESTRICTED CHAT ACCESS FOR CRAP SAKE)
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc. Exxxotic	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:09:00 - [21] best thing i can think of make eve credit card required even for the trial, no charge but it is checked, if one person using that card gets banned for isk selling, say twice the card is then blocked from further use, wont have an immidiate effect but soon enough people doing it will run out of credit cards :D
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Xtreem if one person using that card gets banned for isk selling, say twice First offense = big time ban. Giving someone a second chance will drastically slow the rate at which ISK sellers stop plying their trade in Eve. Personally my dream scenario is that CCP implements a foolproof way of detecting and banning ISK website spammers and macro users within minutes of them initiating their programs without ever letting the secret out to the broader Eve community. Then all those guys can migrate over to other games and macro there, while the people who make those games just look on at Eve in wondrous amazement of how miraculously bullshit-free we are. Then, ice cream.
RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:22:00 - [23] There are easy ways to decrease the number of ISK spammers without penalizing new players too much. _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:38:00 - [24] Originally by: Lui Kai The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. Unfortunately, it is now possible to generate valid credit card accounts in bulk. There are foreign banks who are willing to provide this service to RMT dealers. Access to a valid credit card is no deterrent to RMT activity. RyanD

Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:39:00 - [25] Want to kill ISK spam? Give use a regexp filter, and have it auto-update with some regularity to catch the latest sites.
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:57:00 - [26] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: Lui Kai The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. Unfortunately, it is now possible to generate valid credit card accounts in bulk. There are foreign banks who are willing to provide this service to RMT dealers. Access to a valid credit card is no deterrent to RMT activity. RyanD Ugh. That's a serious PITA. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:04:00 - [27] Good to hear Ryan, its nice to know that there is some work behind it. On the frontlines it often seems like nothing is done at all. -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Pak Narhoo Gallente Pacific Starfleet Command	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:15:00 - [28] Originally by: CCP RyanD [ We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. <snipp> RyanD Wowzers! Over the past few weeks You, sir, have been the most open, revealing with behind the CCP scenes info, DEV, I've come to know in my 8 month existents on the EVE forums. Probably to much asked but could you, maybe, if you see another DEV, working/ playing EVE on a (yes flame me i don't care ) Mac, ask him/her to give some love to the last channel? We're kinda desperate, after all the promises and the big silences following those. Originally by: Haakelen That is a terrible idea, you have no idea what you're talking about, please don't do it anymore.
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:57:00 - [29] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD I don't know anyone that played EVE and liked the game because of the free trial, it will cost you players. Just keep trials accounts off public channels outside of noob corp and the noob help channel until their account goes live, just explain why their account has limited communication.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.07.26 15:26:00 - [30] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/07/2008 15:29:34 Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/07/2008 15:26:52 Originally by: RigelKentaurus There are easy ways to decrease the number of ISK spammers without penalizing new players too much. This link actually goes to an idea that makes the most sense that I have read to slow this problem. In short, the Rigel's post proposes an interactive time sink mission that must be completed to open up local and other channels. This in combination with requireing that the intro storyline missions must be completed to open up skills to be trained, say battleship, should decrease the ease of using alts by increasing the time that is needed to make them useful within EVE. EDIT: The above combined with the following would work brilliantly. Originally by: CCP RyanD We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD Slade "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self"

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