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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Luzz Bightyear	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:10:00 - [1] I like EVE-O. It's a solid game, considering the amount of content. But when you have to block dozens of ISK sellers spamming their websites across the channels to be able to communicate with the wider ingame populous properly, you know something is terribly wrong. I'd like to know what's being done about them. If anything at all. ------------------ DO WANT (I know it's a miner and not a gun, I'm lazy )
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:15:00 - [2] Its getting worse >< even if eve online is automatically blocking them they got 5 bots going all at once making a new character so its almost a new spammer every minute ><. New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
FluterEx Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:09:00 - [3] Edited by: FluterEx on 26/07/2008 10:09:30 Originally by: Nova Fox Its getting worse >< even if eve online is automatically blocking them they got 5 bots going all at once making a new character so its almost a new spammer every minute ><. Unfortunatley hats true. And to answer the Ops question: ISK sellers get banned but the post that i quoted shows that it is almost useless because they just keep comin back again with new chars. --------------------------------------- Only the dead have seen the end of war.
astowv Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:27:00 - [4] solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS ---- --- CCP Navigator is watching me. It scares me !
FluterEx Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:35:00 - [5] Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS That would be a solution but how are new players supposed to test the game then ? --------------------------------------- Only the dead have seen the end of war.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:36:00 - [6] No free trials, and your missing lots of new players. But eh, we don't need new players in EvE. Our population count is great! Sarcasm aside, my only suggestion would be to limit the isk spammers to using local and noob corp chat. They shouldn't be able to join anything accept maybe the help channel. They can listen in, but not communicate, that sort of thing. This means that a spammer can still spam in noob corp, help channel and local. Personally, I want local shut down completely as an intel tool, and if that happened, I'd close the channel, just like constellation chat. Noob corps are notorious for being homes to macro miners, carebears and spy alts. Whatever. The sooner a new player finds a good, strong corp to play with, the better off he'll be. And there are other NPC corps that a carebear or macro miner can join. And the help channel ... isn't that moderated? Genesis Project
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:41:00 - [7] Edited by: McDonALTs on 26/07/2008 10:42:44 Free trials are not going to chance anything. Carebear Corp/Alliance CEO are some of the biggist isk sellers ingame. Many regions can make 100bil+ a month from mining moon minerals and converting them into t2 components. A certain carebear corp in the north has its members do mining ops which go to building Motherships for sale for $$$. Others have its members ratting all day and tax and refining tax goes straight into alliance executer pockets. Most of these corps wouldhave members who would never suspect their ceo to be a isk seller A lot of people fail to relise that most of the biggist isk farmers are their happy friendly western CEO. You know, the guy who says "farmers are bad" to his unsuspecting members with one hand while selling motherships for $$$ with another.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:42:00 - [8] Originally by: Nova Fox Its getting worse >< even if eve online is automatically blocking them they got 5 bots going all at once making a new character so its almost a new spammer every minute ><. Have to say, that's not really true. Went away fod a good while from EVE and the ISK selling is same/if not lower then when i left. People always say "it's getting worse" or "it's worse then", when actually it's quite a nice status quo or even going in the right direction. All depends on the day My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:42:00 - [9] But yeah, to continue trial account restrictions (using methods from other games): - Trial accounts aren't allowed out of .5 space. Eh, I use trial spies all the time. I know the exploit is there, and I HAVE made profit off of it. And I honestly think that this is the best way to stop it from being misused. - Trial accounts can access, but neither talk nor type in other channels. - Trial accounts can't send mail. - Trial accounts can't leave the beginner corporations. (of course, this means that real, live new players would be overwhelmed with spam ... hmm) All these precedents, from the mail to the limited channel access, are made use of in some shape, form or fashion in other games. So it can be done successfully. Genesis Project
Sythyss Twilight Trading Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.26 11:09:00 - [10] Edited by: Sythyss on 26/07/2008 11:09:19 I agree wtih Ruze. These very, very simple implentations will solve some huge problems we have.
luminous russula	Posted - 2008.07.26 11:12:00 - [11] i can see why they would wonna block all those characters spamming in the chats for isk, but i see no reazon why ccp would want to ban the characters who macromine (although they are owned by the same people), and those are the problem, for they supply the isk to be sold. macrominers pay for the game like you and me, and there is allot of them, what would ccp gain by banning all of them? its the same in all mmos, those who bot pay for the game as well, and as long as they dont become too much of a problem for the other players to stop playing, the company itself has no reason to ban them, they still pay a monthly fee... also the market would colapse without them as they are the main source of basic minerals... but that could in fact make the mining proffesion alittle better for the normal player...
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.26 11:17:00 - [12] The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. No charges to it, no obligations against it - just require one. The problem with banning isk sellers is their immediate return - if they have to get a new credit card each time to return, it becomes more complicated. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Lougra Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.26 11:52:00 - [13] Originally by: Ruze But yeah, to continue trial account restrictions (using methods from other games): - Trial accounts aren't allowed out of .5 space. Eh, I use trial spies all the time. I know the exploit is there, and I HAVE made profit off of it. And I honestly think that this is the best way to stop it from being misused. - Trial accounts can access, but neither talk nor type in other channels. - Trial accounts can't send mail. - Trial accounts can't leave the beginner corporations. (of course, this means that real, live new players would be overwhelmed with spam ... hmm) All these precedents, from the mail to the limited channel access, are made use of in some shape, form or fashion in other games. So it can be done successfully. Youre right. Cut them all off. But in the end will be only one. The greater of all http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=544711 follow this link. Carebear is the surname that others gives you, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
Alamut Ibn'haboob	Posted - 2008.07.26 11:59:00 - [14] As things currently stand, many more players prefer to simply block ISK Spammers in comparison to those who actually take the time to report them. I understand the thought process behind this (as do most of you who read this): report the spammer via the in game petition system, GM takes action (although response times ARE getting slower) and ISK spammer creates a new toon to continue spamming. The petitioning process takes more than a few keystrokes of a player's time, and honestly there's no real positive reinforcement for players to do so. Should CCP discontinue the 14 day trial? As some of you have pointed out, it would be a viable method through which to put a stop to all but the most "hardened" ISK Spammers. On the other hand, the 14 day trial that CCP offers EVE-Online interested parties has brought more than just a few new faces to game keeping a steady flow of cash into CCP coffers. I doubt that this would be an acceptable course of action to CCP. I've seen the effect that a group of Caldari State War Academy pilot's petitions have had on one particular ISK Spammer -- at first this individual was quite persistant in creating new toons with which to spam his offerings. Now I see him spamming less in Caldari State War Academy chat and more in local. I believe this to be due to the perserverance of this group of individuals petitioning him every time he shows his face again. Granted, the majority of the SWA chat members simply block him but the time those who DO report him, cost him in terms of new toon creation, appears to be having the desired effect. I feel that CCP could (in a patch) create a more streamlined method of reporting ISK Spammers which requires fewer keystrokes, which would encourage more players to create ISK Spammer petitions. In line with this, perhaps some type of reward for doing so would be further positive reinforcment for creating said petitions. After placing this on the proverbial platter for players, it would then be up to CCP and the EVE-Online GM Team to work on weeding out spammers via DIRECT contact with ISK Spammer webspace providers. I'm sure some of you will scoff at what I've suggested. You're entitled to your opinions just as I'm entitled to mine. These are my "two bits" for the sake of suggestion.
Michelle Vega	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Lui Kai The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. No charges to it, no obligations against it - just require one. The problem with banning isk sellers is their immediate return - if they have to get a new credit card each time to return, it becomes more complicated. This finally sounds like a good idea.
Kelron Queldine Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:01:00 - [16] I hardly see any ISK sellers now, the trade channels used to be infested with them. Where are they still found with enough frequency to prompt a forum whine?

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:52:00 - [17] Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD

Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:55:00 - [18] those of us that remember diablo2 will remember the insane amount of bots going threw room to room spamming TONS of stuff. diabo3 is coming too WOOT
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:57:00 - [19] Originally by: Ruze But yeah, to continue trial account restrictions (using methods from other games): - Trial accounts aren't allowed out of .5 space. Eh, I use trial spies all the time. I know the exploit is there, and I HAVE made profit off of it. And I honestly think that this is the best way to stop it from being misused. - Trial accounts can access, but neither talk nor type in other channels. - Trial accounts can't send mail. - Trial accounts can't leave the beginner corporations. (of course, this means that real, live new players would be overwhelmed with spam ... hmm) All these precedents, from the mail to the limited channel access, are made use of in some shape, form or fashion in other games. So it can be done successfully. i suggested most of those in a post long ago, and no one liked them then. maybe they will listen now! (just like the nano-phag nerf)
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:05:00 - [20] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD I think I like the credit card requirement better, but this idea seems quite promising. Encouraging new Eve recruitment through the players already in game might result in a better proportion of people entering the game better prepared for what it contains. Personally I think I was too frustrated with the game after a week to want to sign up. In fact, I think I waited until about a week after my trial expired before I actually started my subscription. So shorter trial periods may not be the best move, but I do at least support further limitations on trial accounts (RESTRICTED CHAT ACCESS FOR CRAP SAKE)
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc. Exxxotic	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:09:00 - [21] best thing i can think of make eve credit card required even for the trial, no charge but it is checked, if one person using that card gets banned for isk selling, say twice the card is then blocked from further use, wont have an immidiate effect but soon enough people doing it will run out of credit cards :D
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Xtreem if one person using that card gets banned for isk selling, say twice First offense = big time ban. Giving someone a second chance will drastically slow the rate at which ISK sellers stop plying their trade in Eve. Personally my dream scenario is that CCP implements a foolproof way of detecting and banning ISK website spammers and macro users within minutes of them initiating their programs without ever letting the secret out to the broader Eve community. Then all those guys can migrate over to other games and macro there, while the people who make those games just look on at Eve in wondrous amazement of how miraculously bullshit-free we are. Then, ice cream.
RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:22:00 - [23] There are easy ways to decrease the number of ISK spammers without penalizing new players too much. _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:38:00 - [24] Originally by: Lui Kai The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. Unfortunately, it is now possible to generate valid credit card accounts in bulk. There are foreign banks who are willing to provide this service to RMT dealers. Access to a valid credit card is no deterrent to RMT activity. RyanD

Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:39:00 - [25] Want to kill ISK spam? Give use a regexp filter, and have it auto-update with some regularity to catch the latest sites.
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:57:00 - [26] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: Lui Kai The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. Unfortunately, it is now possible to generate valid credit card accounts in bulk. There are foreign banks who are willing to provide this service to RMT dealers. Access to a valid credit card is no deterrent to RMT activity. RyanD Ugh. That's a serious PITA. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:04:00 - [27] Good to hear Ryan, its nice to know that there is some work behind it. On the frontlines it often seems like nothing is done at all. -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Pak Narhoo Gallente Pacific Starfleet Command	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:15:00 - [28] Originally by: CCP RyanD [ We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. <snipp> RyanD Wowzers! Over the past few weeks You, sir, have been the most open, revealing with behind the CCP scenes info, DEV, I've come to know in my 8 month existents on the EVE forums. Probably to much asked but could you, maybe, if you see another DEV, working/ playing EVE on a (yes flame me i don't care ) Mac, ask him/her to give some love to the last channel? We're kinda desperate, after all the promises and the big silences following those. Originally by: Haakelen That is a terrible idea, you have no idea what you're talking about, please don't do it anymore.
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:57:00 - [29] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD I don't know anyone that played EVE and liked the game because of the free trial, it will cost you players. Just keep trials accounts off public channels outside of noob corp and the noob help channel until their account goes live, just explain why their account has limited communication.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.07.26 15:26:00 - [30] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/07/2008 15:29:34 Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/07/2008 15:26:52 Originally by: RigelKentaurus There are easy ways to decrease the number of ISK spammers without penalizing new players too much. This link actually goes to an idea that makes the most sense that I have read to slow this problem. In short, the Rigel's post proposes an interactive time sink mission that must be completed to open up local and other channels. This in combination with requireing that the intro storyline missions must be completed to open up skills to be trained, say battleship, should decrease the ease of using alts by increasing the time that is needed to make them useful within EVE. EDIT: The above combined with the following would work brilliantly. Originally by: CCP RyanD We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD Slade "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self"
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.07.26 16:13:00 - [31] This kills me... We have devs in this post that are not challenging people about this automagic detection of theirs. When they first implemented it I was sitting in empire being spammed in local I posted this and was challenged by devs and damn near called a liar.. and now it's an issue? It's been a REALLY long time. Your damned isk farmers had your system beat 5 minutes out of the starting gate. NOW you talk of restricting trials.... WHY DON'T YOU JUST DO SOMETHING ABOUT BUYERS AND FARMERS? CCP, YOU FAIL... Ban the damned farmers and make the price of isk HIGH and something might happen!
Big Al Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure	Posted - 2008.07.26 16:18:00 - [32] Edited by: Big Al on 26/07/2008 16:18:45 Why would CCP do anything about farmers? They don't make 70 page posts when CCP do something stupid. They don't fight in large fleet battles that cause headaches for db admins. Those that aren't online 23/7 help to balance out the average server population (as china primetime offsets euro/america) making their numbers look better. About the only thing the farmers are hurting are CCP's sanctioned ISK sales. I feel sorry for the people who sit in large public channels/npc corps who have to deal with the constant spam.
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.07.26 16:28:00 - [33] Originally by: Big Al Edited by: Big Al on 26/07/2008 16:18:45 Why would CCP do anything about farmers? They don't make 70 page posts when CCP do something stupid. They don't fight in large fleet battles that cause headaches for db admins. Those that aren't online 23/7 help to balance out the average server population (as china primetime offsets euro/america) making their numbers look better. About the only thing the farmers are hurting are CCP's sanctioned ISK sales. I feel sorry for the people who sit in large public channels/npc corps who have to deal with the constant spam. I get the picture... the very small vocal minority of us that despise 0.0 ravens with cloaks or the massive mission farming that goes on. Of course they wont kill farmers.. why? farmers are probably 1/3 of the eve population. Thing is, they are 'trying' to stop the spam and it is just not working so another approach is needed - such as when a buyer is found BAN HIM. Why do these boneheads think that it is okay to just take the isk away? By many peoples' own admission there are second time offenders, third time offenders and yes, I have seen people that have whined caught 4 times and not banned. This is what kills me: smartbombing raven outside jita 4-4 = ban suicide ganking a freighter outside jita 4-4 with 15--20 domis = no ban repeatedly buying isk from isk sellers, over and over and disrupting game balance in the process.... no ban... perfectly OK to do.
RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.07.26 16:58:00 - [34] Originally by: Slade Trillgon In short, the Rigel's post proposes an interactive time sink mission that must be completed to open up local and other channels. This in combination with requireing that the intro storyline missions must be completed to open up skills to be trained, say battleship, should decrease the ease of using alts by increasing the time that is needed to make them useful within EVE. And at the same time it could improve the immersion factor of the tutorial. That's the idea we came up with when we wondered how to seriously diminish the spam. At first people were saying all this old stuff about credit cards and etc, but it soon became obvious that making trial accounts even less appealing for newbies would hurt the game. So we wondered if game mechanics could be useful against ISK spammers, and got this idea. _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.
Duran Vosa Gallente Republic Research and Logistics	Posted - 2008.07.26 17:21:00 - [35] Originally by: Loyal Servant Originally by: Big Al Edited by: Big Al on 26/07/2008 16:18:45 Why would CCP do anything about farmers? They don't make 70 page posts when CCP do something stupid. They don't fight in large fleet battles that cause headaches for db admins. Those that aren't online 23/7 help to balance out the average server population (as china primetime offsets euro/america) making their numbers look better. About the only thing the farmers are hurting are CCP's sanctioned ISK sales. I feel sorry for the people who sit in large public channels/npc corps who have to deal with the constant spam. I get the picture... the very small vocal minority of us that despise 0.0 ravens with cloaks or the massive mission farming that goes on. Of course they wont kill farmers.. why? farmers are probably 1/3 of the eve population. Thing is, they are 'trying' to stop the spam and it is just not working so another approach is needed - such as when a buyer is found BAN HIM. Why do these boneheads think that it is okay to just take the isk away? By many peoples' own admission there are second time offenders, third time offenders and yes, I have seen people that have whined caught 4 times and not banned. This is what kills me: smartbombing raven outside jita 4-4 = ban suicide ganking a freighter outside jita 4-4 with 15--20 domis = no ban repeatedly buying isk from isk sellers, over and over and disrupting game balance in the process.... no ban... perfectly OK to do. So it legal to Buy isk???? --------------------------------------------- Mining one Roid at a time...
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.07.26 18:44:00 - [36] Originally by: Duran Vosa So it legal to Buy isk???? No, but you don't exactly have much to fear by doing it.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.26 18:48:00 - [37] Originally by: Lui Kai The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. No charges to it, no obligations against it - just require one. The problem with banning isk sellers is their immediate return - if they have to get a new credit card each time to return, it becomes more complicated. Ding.. Ding...Ding...Ding..Ding... we have a winner!
RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.07.26 18:54:00 - [38] Originally by: Jinx Barker Ding.. Ding...Ding...Ding..Ding... we have a winner! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=832280&page=1#24 _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.
R0ot Eternity INC. Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.07.26 18:57:00 - [39] Forgive the ignorance you may read written by me here, had to dupe the guy into saying stuff: Originally by: "Live Help" Thank you for your patience when waiting for Live Help, we apologize for any delays that you may experience. Currently 1 users waiting for Live Help. [Refresh] Would you like to continue waiting or leave an Offline Email ? Larney: Welcome to Live Help, how may I help you? Larney: hello John: hi John: i've got a few questions about the eve online section John: do you sell eve online accounts? John: or just isk? Larney: yes we do John: is there any chance of me getting banned by the makers of eve if I buy an account or isk through you? Larney: no you will be 100% safe John: so the game developers don't have any rules against the buying and selling of isk or accounts? Larney: they do but we have sytems to keep you safe John: so its against the rules but you promise I won't get caught? John: what kind of guarantee do I have? Larney: we really dont Larney: but we have not ahad any issues in a very long time John: but you have had issues? John: hello? Larney: yes but no account baningas John: no account bannings, but what else could they do? John: if they don't ban a bought account, what other punishment is there? Larney: they pull back isk thats is all Larney: but they dont know becuse we have a great new system John: i've been playing eve for awhile and the only way I know to transfer isk to someone is "give money" button John: your trying to tell me there is a better way? John: that eve devs can't see? Larney: y7es John: ok thank you for your time I did laugh at the 100% safe bit, then he mentions you can get caught but its just very very unlikely.
Luzz Bightyear	Posted - 2008.07.26 20:35:00 - [40] Edited by: Luzz Bightyear on 26/07/2008 20:37:24 My suggestion is to force all trial characters to a trial system which is cut off from the rest of EVE. No need to remove trial accounts entirely. EDIT: Or better, force them to play on the test server. They'd get to experiance a lot of the game and basic mechanics very quickly there. ------------------ DO WANT (I know it's a miner and not a gun, I'm lazy )
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.26 20:51:00 - [41] Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS Solution: better channel filtering, and limits on free trial channel access. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.26 20:53:00 - [42] Originally by: Luzz Bightyear Edited by: Luzz Bightyear on 26/07/2008 20:37:24 My suggestion is to force all trial characters to a trial system which is cut off from the rest of EVE. No need to remove trial accounts entirely. EDIT: Or better, force them to play on the test server. They'd get to experiance a lot of the game and basic mechanics very quickly there. Or force them to finish the tutorial before joining the main game. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Luzz Bightyear	Posted - 2008.07.26 21:04:00 - [43] Edited by: Luzz Bightyear on 26/07/2008 21:07:32 Bad idea. It's way too easy to do something out of sequence and screw up the tutorial entirely. When I help people, it tends to revolve around how to quit the tut because it's fubar. ------------------ DO WANT (I know it's a miner and not a gun, I'm lazy )
CetusOfAsuran well of Urd	Posted - 2008.07.26 21:07:00 - [44] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: Lui Kai The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. Unfortunately, it is now possible to generate valid credit card accounts in bulk. There are foreign banks who are willing to provide this service to RMT dealers. Access to a valid credit card is no deterrent to RMT activity. RyanD there is also readily available downloadable programs for credit card generation for validation, aimed more for peeps that dont have a CC for age veri on the erm naughty sites. Try thinking outside the box a little, no trial account but a free month when you buy your first month, or a full/partial refund if feedback is given as to why you didnt like the game. As for macro's again outside the box, stop the auto-concord attack rubbish, new button on the side bar/overview/somewhere else which calls for help, i know the brit police dont help unless you ask for it so why do concord? obviously if they are already present at gates/stations etc fine bbq away but anywhere else nadda, macros aint gonna push no button. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=792173&page=2
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.26 21:16:00 - [45] Originally by: CetusOfAsuran Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: Lui Kai The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. Unfortunately, it is now possible to generate valid credit card accounts in bulk. There are foreign banks who are willing to provide this service to RMT dealers. Access to a valid credit card is no deterrent to RMT activity. RyanD there is also readily available downloadable programs for credit card generation for validation, aimed more for peeps that dont have a CC for age veri on the erm naughty sites. Try thinking outside the box a little, no trial account but a free month when you buy your first month, or a full/partial refund if feedback is given as to why you didnt like the game. As for macro's again outside the box, stop the auto-concord attack rubbish, new button on the side bar/overview/somewhere else which calls for help, i know the brit police dont help unless you ask for it so why do concord? obviously if they are already present at gates/stations etc fine bbq away but anywhere else nadda, macros aint gonna push no button. Actually I do like that idea, but for the lag implications. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Victor Draconian	Posted - 2008.07.26 21:29:00 - [46] Originally by: FluterEx Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS That would be a solution but how are new players supposed to test the game then ? Keep the Free Trial, But ask for credit card info, Then at the 14th day close the account and give a pop up that states, "Would you like to keep playing, your card will be charged 14.99 for the game and you'll gain 30 day free trial, Enjoy your time in eve"
Ashen Angel Minmatar AA Mining	Posted - 2008.07.26 21:31:00 - [47] how about stopping the market for isk, do a public shame of the buyers. If there are no buyers, then the sellers have no market. Core problem is they are feeding a market that is there...
Luzz Bightyear	Posted - 2008.07.26 21:36:00 - [48] Originally by: Ashen Angel how about stopping the market for isk, do a public shame of the buyers. If there are no buyers, then the sellers have no market. Core problem is they are feeding a market that is there... As long as there are big corps that need isk to feed their war machines, there will always be a market for buying isk. They won't care if they get shamed publicly for it. ------------------ DO WANT (I know it's a miner and not a gun, I'm lazy )
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.26 22:08:00 - [49] I say that CCP should simply sell the isk themselves. The 'solutions' against isk sellers seem to all be focused on pushing all the financial gain out of high sec, so that the 'good and wholesome' crowd can thus take a chunk out of the macrominers and industrialists. I just can't buy the bull that this is 100% noble intentions. What most aren't realizing is that the profit margins have already died in high sec. Veld is the most profitable astroid to mine, and have you ever hit that thing with a strip miner? Two cycles, it's through. Ice mining is turning over much less a profit than simple veld is, for time, percentage mined, and rewards. The argument fails in that regard. In fact, it seems that the moon-mining 0.0 corporations are the ones with the money to sell, wouldn't you think? Even mid-sized alliances can field HUGE fleets and replace dreads and BS's like crazy. In the end, people are going to make isk to sell, and others will sell isk for cash. CCP might as well just go on and undercut the market. I mean, put the profits back into the game, at least, and do it with no threat to the buyer. If you can't beat them, join them, and do it better. Course, this would kill the market. And players with more money outside of game would have more stuff. But if you think that this isn't already the case, you are probably pretty naive. Genesis Project
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.07.26 23:43:00 - [50] I like the idea of reporting WHO bought isk when they are caught. Problem is, they are not caught. My MC friend that posted the online chat log from the isk buying site hit it on the head... they know how to evade detection. See, most veteran players have alts that bank isk. I have one, and I know lots more that do the same thing. So, if I bought isk on this character and got caught its no big loss. By then I would have spent the isk on things and scrubbed it so well that if I had -500 mil in my wallet it will not exactly cause me a problem. That is the kind of loophole that exists and I know damned well it is exploited.
MongWen Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.07.27 00:01:00 - [51] I have to agree with Loyal Servant's last post, what stops the buyers form just useing throw away alts to get a big negitive wallet and just biomass them. and get isk over to main char (scrubbed down ofc). ------------------
soldieroffortune 258	Posted - 2008.07.27 00:15:00 - [52] someone mentioned a while ago in game or on the forums, not sure, but they mentioned a good way would be to prevent trial accounts from joining any other channel, other than rookie help (where there are devs already) and local/ corp chat (although, if i was a CEO, i wouldnt accept someone w/ the name "sjfkl;sdahfjpash", but whatever, 3 channels sound way better than 2, lol and if they did this, as i said, on the rookie help there are already devs there, so if someone were to start spamming on it, they could track it down, and presto, could help solve some problems, also if they start spamming it on local, most rookies dont really pay attention to local, well i didnt at least, i payed attention to the rookie help so i could learn as much as possible and what someone else mentioned before ban trial accounts, well im not entirely in line with that, however, maybe another possible solution could be to make it so the account is payable only, BUT the person gets an extra 14 days added onto that 30 days they payed for, it would be the same as if they got a trial and started paying my 0.02 isk
Lord Makk The Maverick Navy Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.27 00:16:00 - [53] put trial on a Test server or similar.... Then insta-move if they purchase the subscription.. ofc skills trained there, follows...
ghost st	Posted - 2008.07.27 00:18:00 - [54] Why doesnt CCP just put some flag in the registry or something if someone gets permabanned, making it so that they cannot use the eve-o client. Alot of trial progams use similar methods. No client = no sampper alts
soldieroffortune 258	Posted - 2008.07.27 00:21:00 - [55] Originally by: Lord Makk put trial on a Test server or similar.... Then insta-move if they purchase the subscription.. ofc skills trained there, follows... i have mentioned this before, but some naysayer kinda shot me down but apparently im not alone, this has been mentioned a few times so far http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828556
Grarr Dexx Amarr Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.27 00:28:00 - [56] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=832459 I lol'd hard, so many of these...
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.27 01:09:00 - [57] Well there are players that had dealt with corps before and disliked all the malarky or lack of a social environment a rookie corp could provide for a casual sense. Filter system doesnt work they can register new websites with bots and toss up a similar site, also their messages change every spam now, the bots would spam rush 2-3 messages then log off and come back on as another new trail probably on automatic as well, then they got about 5 individual bots going off all at once, so the spam is now constant during certain times of the day ><. Local Help and thier rookie channels are the most common place and only place they seem to spam and I am still left wondering how they rocket spam so quickly while im delayed between my messages? New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Xevan Templar 7th Batavian Squadron	Posted - 2008.07.27 01:56:00 - [58] One of the MMO's that I play is LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online). When you start the game, you start in the starter instance, with no possibility to communicate yet with 'the real server'. After the first small tutorial, you get into the starter zone. Only starters will be there, and will do some quests until they have a high enough level to fullfill the complete tutorial and enter the main server. From start to main server will take at least a couple of hours. So spamm bots don't work, because you realy have to play a few hours before entering the main server. Isn't it an idea to 'force' players to fullfill the first, or even the first 2 tutorials before unlocking the communication channels ? I know the rookie channel is very handy, but if you follow the starting tutorial you should be able to fullfill that easely by just doing as instructed. That being said it's only the Rookie channel that's get spammed right (that is still annoying offcourse) ?
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.27 02:04:00 - [59] rookie channel has become a holding spot for several casual players and alts of veterans who want to get away from thier daily tribulations far away from empire. New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.07.27 02:10:00 - [60] Originally by: Xevan Templar One of the MMO's that I play is LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online). When you start the game, you start in the starter instance, with no possibility to communicate yet with 'the real server'. After the first small tutorial, you get into the starter zone. Only starters will be there, and will do some quests until they have a high enough level to fullfill the complete tutorial and enter the main server. From start to main server will take at least a couple of hours. So spamm bots don't work, because you realy have to play a few hours before entering the main server. Isn't it an idea to 'force' players to fullfill the first, or even the first 2 tutorials before unlocking the communication channels ? I know the rookie channel is very handy, but if you follow the starting tutorial you should be able to fullfill that easely by just doing as instructed. That being said it's only the Rookie channel that's get spammed right (that is still annoying offcourse) ? We also have an option to report as spammer and it adds the person to your ignore list. I was told that if you rolled another character that you could bypass the n00b instance and land right into the real server. I always play the newbie instance personally when making or trying out another class. Something like this would work for eve, trial users connect to another server that is their own little sandbox.. and you have to pay for the real deal. see, if the farmers had to pay to spam then spam would go away instantly. legitimate trial users would still get the experience.. spammers would get a very, very small audience. none of this stops gold farmers or sellers, which is why there is spam. no buyers/sellers = no spam.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.27 02:14:00 - [61] Sad thing about eve is that there are no instances yet but well have to see what the deve come up with to combat the endless tide of digital data bits. New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.27 15:19:00 - [62] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD So good to hear this! I think the changes you've mentioned would make a huge difference. Can't wait to see what more is up CCP's sleeve on this issue.
Daelin Blackleaf The Reclaimed	Posted - 2008.07.27 15:30:00 - [63] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD Excellent news. Question, I have a friend I invited as a buddy a few months ago. He's decided he wants a second go at the game now that FW is in. Can I offer the same person a second buddy trial?
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.07.27 16:52:00 - [64] Make trial invite issuers accountable for the trialer's actions. If ISK spam is involved , flag him to disable new trial invites , mark his other trial accounts for deletion and have a GM personally investigate his activities. Also remove the option to upgrade trial to regular sub with a GTC and not pay anything. Real players inviting their friends to Eve would have nothing to fear. No loss of customers , unless you consider ISK farmers to be customers of course.
Layla McScout	Posted - 2008.07.27 17:31:00 - [65] Putting in new models to prevent Isk seller spam is pointless if CCP continues to fail against the sweatshop / macro farmers and repeated offenders who bought Isk. And seeing 0.0 alliances who are actively protecting Isk farmer corporations for a share in the profits doesn't really help either. If I had to name a MMOG company that does the least effort towards RMT then CCP wins that prize.
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.07.27 23:45:00 - [66] Originally by: Layla McScout Putting in new models to prevent Isk seller spam is pointless if CCP continues to fail against the sweatshop / macro farmers and repeated offenders who bought Isk. And seeing 0.0 alliances who are actively protecting Isk farmer corporations for a share in the profits doesn't really help either. If I had to name a MMOG company that does the least effort towards RMT then CCP wins that prize. Yeah, CCP wins there hands down. As far as 0.0 alliances protecting farmers, this is a growing problem. They are immune to this issue because they don't lose anything. The 'rental agreements' that alliances have are not set in stone anyplace. It's all done in a chat, on a forum or on teamspeak/vent. I can't see how anything can be done since this is not tracked anyplace. What should happen is when a farmer ring is busted, they used that dirty isk to pay an alliance and that alliance should have the isk reversed. This would make alliances very wary of taking on farmers - you might very well cause your alliance to collapse by taking dirty isk. The problem right now... and I just talked to one of my farmers... (I have not shot him yet so he is friendly) Here is how they are operating.. The farmers in 0.0, missions, mining ice, etc etc take their warez to market and sell them/contract them. That is, in the case of meta level 4 loot - faction drops are contracted. Now, to transfer isk they don't simply 'transfer it' When they transfer isk to their banking characters they place a really high buy order for ammo on the market in random locations and the farming character buys said 10 million isk/round ammo. I have seen these sell orders personally and I have seen them go away too when there is a farmer in the area - this is why farmers stay in close proximity to NPC controlled 0.0 Btw, farmers call this 'seeking' - not farming. Now, the farmer has transferred his isk to the bank and this isk is basically washed clean... CCP does not reverse these types of transactions and they know it. -- I CANNOT verify this part, but I am assured it is one method of RMT transfer, per my 'farming friend' -- Last step in the chain is the isk buyer. The buyer is contacted and instructed to place a sell order for any item of their choosing in any empire region of their choosing and to contact a banker in game and the banker then buys this item at that price. They instruct the 'customer' - if asked to say they were scamming people which is perfectly okay. Now, why can they assure secure transfer? Again, because CCP does not go after market transactions or scammers. I am forced to believe this, because I know they are doing it this way to transfer isk amongst themselves - contracts were public and exposed which made them easy to spot, and this was how they adapted. In my discussions they know that CCP cannot do anything about this without coming down on scammers. Since scamming is a part of eve, it is now how the farmers cover their tracks and transfer large quantities of isk without being seen. Can something be done? Put the scammers out of business or start banning isk buyers. I personally think scamming is a legitimate method of play and keeps eve diverse. We have scammers, thieves, pirates, entrepreneurs.... you name it. Thoughts? I am not really surprised that the farmers operate this way, I have suspected it since we started posting screenshots of contracts for 1 missile @ 500 million isk and the contracts went away shortly after.
Imperius Blackheart Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.28 00:25:00 - [67] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD Sad to see it come to that if it does tbh, its one of the reasons I felt I could try eve and was what helped me get into it. Proud member of the Caldari Death Squad
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.07.28 00:44:00 - [68] Originally by: Ruze But yeah, to continue trial account restrictions (using methods from other games): - Trial accounts aren't allowed out of .5 space. Eh, I use trial spies all the time. I know the exploit is there, and I HAVE made profit off of it. And I honestly think that this is the best way to stop it from being misused. - Trial accounts can access, but neither talk nor type in other channels. - Trial accounts can't send mail. - Trial accounts can't leave the beginner corporations. (of course, this means that real, live new players would be overwhelmed with spam ... hmm) All these precedents, from the mail to the limited channel access, are made use of in some shape, form or fashion in other games. So it can be done successfully. This, Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.07.28 00:52:00 - [69] I'd like to see a very very open buddy key system...maybe for example a forum where newbies can post and ask for trial keys...
Murk Loar Caldari The Ex-Patriots	Posted - 2008.07.28 01:11:00 - [70] Originally by: Loyal Servant -- I CANNOT verify this part, but I am assured it is one method of RMT transfer, per my 'farming friend' -- Last step in the chain is the isk buyer. The buyer is contacted and instructed to place a sell order for any item of their choosing in any empire region of their choosing and to contact a banker in game and the banker then buys this item at that price. They instruct the 'customer' - if asked to say they were scamming people which is perfectly okay. Now, why can they assure secure transfer? Again, because CCP does not go after market transactions or scammers. I am forced to believe this, because I know they are doing it this way to transfer isk amongst themselves - contracts were public and exposed which made them easy to spot, and this was how they adapted. In my discussions they know that CCP cannot do anything about this without coming down on scammers. Since scamming is a part of eve, it is now how the farmers cover their tracks and transfer large quantities of isk without being seen. Thoughts? I am not really surprised that the farmers operate this way, I have suspected it since we started posting screenshots of contracts for 1 missile @ 500 million isk and the contracts went away shortly after. Thanks for posting that,I always wondered how drunk/tired those sellers in empty systems were when I saw 1 cruise missile at 280mill and upwards.Now I know what it's all about.Smart really.
Takima Templar 7th Batavian Squadron	Posted - 2008.07.28 01:33:00 - [71] Edited by: Takima Templar on 28/07/2008 01:36:00 Originally by: Loyal Servant We also have an option to report as spammer and it adds the person to your ignore list. From my experience I doubt reporting works well. Somebody at CCP (or any other MMO) have to track down to see if it's realy a gold-spammer or farm bot. This takes time, and CCP, nor any other MMO, can spend alot of people on that. Originally by: Loyal Servant I was told that if you rolled another character that you could bypass the n00b instance and land right into the real server. As far as I know in LOTRO you have to go through the starter instance every single time you create a new character. There is no way around it. Nomather what race/class/server. Every single time you have to go through it. It's not in vane though, you level up while you go through the starter server. And it's relativly short, only a few hours, so not a real biggy for a 'real' player. Originally by: Loyal Servant I always play the newbie instance personally when making or trying out another class. Something like this would work for eve, trial users connect to another server that is their own little sandbox.. and you have to pay for the real deal. From experience bot farmers, or isk sellers, will get through to the main server at some point. Look up gold farm movies of chinese people for WoW on youtube. Those people work 9-10 hours a day, just farming and farming. I think you can't realy stop those, because they are actually playing the game. If you want to do something about it, then you should intercept the trading. However this is, again, very time consuming for CCP members. Originally by: Loyal Servant see, if the farmers had to pay to spam then spam would go away instantly. legitimate trial users would still get the experience.. In every other MMO, they eventualy pay just like a real costumer, because at higher levels/skills, farming goes that much faster. A starter instance or whatever at least stops the gold-spamming bots at the gate. The real farming isk selling is another matter.
Xevan Templar 7th Batavian Squadron	Posted - 2008.07.28 01:35:00 - [72] my alt speaking in the previous post, just incase :P
Gabbot	Posted - 2008.07.28 01:45:00 - [73] Impose an IQ test to all people signing up to trial accounts That way we root out the isk spammers AND the WoW players
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.07.28 01:58:00 - [74] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: astowv solution: NO GOD DAMN FREE TRIALS We're moving in that direction but we're not going to go all the way to zero. Over the next several months we're going to be changing the trial system a lot. What we really want to do is see the Buddy Program become the prime way that people come into EVE - that way they come with at least some connection to another player and all the help & resources that implies. Free trials via simple web signup will not go away but we are going to change that program to make it a "taste of EVE" and not a way to play the game with virtually unlimited access for 2 weeks. RyanD How are you going to adjust the new player experience to make it actually a "Taste of EVE" in a shorter time period then?
Canock	Posted - 2008.07.28 02:15:00 - [75] It would be awesome if you needed like an invitation from an active account to have the free trial.
UnDeRBaLaNcE Firehawks	Posted - 2008.07.28 02:37:00 - [76] Originally by: Canock It would be awesome if you needed like an invitation from an active account to have the free trial. I really think this is a bad idea. Not allowing Free trials will slowly kill the game off. I joined on a free trial back in 2003, it was intimidating as is to start eve with so much content, adding another obstacle will only make players not want to try and Join eve. I almost never pay for a game I have not played, because I do not want to waste money.
Lily Cole	Posted - 2008.07.28 08:48:00 - [77] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: Lui Kai The easy answer is requiring a Credit Card to register for a trial. Unfortunately, it is now possible to generate valid credit card accounts in bulk. There are foreign banks who are willing to provide this service to RMT dealers. Access to a valid credit card is no deterrent to RMT activity. RyanD How about just allowing ISK purchasing and CCP having to compete the ISK farmers?
Hurtado Soneka Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.28 08:51:00 - [78] wanna block isk spammers? Dont be a loser and leave the damn noob corp you start in :p its the only way suckers
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.28 10:18:00 - [79] Originally by: Hurtado Soneka wanna block isk spammers? Dont be a loser and leave the damn noob corp you start in :p its the only way suckers Besides they travel in systems and spam aswell in channels. -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:06:00 - [80] Originally by: Murk Loar Thanks for posting that,I always wondered how drunk/tired those sellers in empty systems were when I saw 1 cruise missile at 280mill and upwards.Now I know what it's all about.Smart really. Well, this is how they are moving money. The problem here is that this is a real problem that cannot be solved without affecting normal players. Why this problem has been allowed to progress to the point of being unsolvable is beyond me. It's like a leaky roof, eventually it floods your house. Thing is, they are actually altering the course of large alliances with the cash they wield.... it's hard to refuse a guy with a lot of isk that wants you to do something for him... such as grant free passage or allow them to 'seek' in just a few systems 23/7 When someone enters local where they are 'seeking' they log on another char and keep going someplace else - you are not stopping them.. They manage to stay in the game via game time cards. As long as game time cards exist, they have easy means to get into eve and since they farm the isk themselves everything they make after the time card expenditure is profit. I was told by another farmer that the shops are expanding into invention and plexes. This would be bad - real industrialists would be forced out of work.
clonkrieger Imperium Forces Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:23:00 - [81] Originally by: Ruze But yeah, to continue trial account restrictions (using methods from other games): - Trial accounts aren't allowed out of .5 space. Eh, I use trial spies all the time. I know the exploit is there, and I HAVE made profit off of it. And I honestly think that this is the best way to stop it from being misused. - Trial accounts can access, but neither talk nor type in other channels. - Trial accounts can't send mail. - Trial accounts can't leave the beginner corporations. (of course, this means that real, live new players would be overwhelmed with spam ... hmm) All these precedents, from the mail to the limited channel access, are made use of in some shape, form or fashion in other games. So it can be done successfully. This would be the best bet. ___________________________ Returned after being absent. Updating...
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.28 14:05:00 - [82] Originally by: Kahega Amielden I'd like to see a very very open buddy key system...maybe for example a forum where newbies can post and ask for trial keys... Actually that could work... but it would take a lot of admin. Almost anything that slows down the process of creating a new account would help (which is why I suggested mandatory completion of the tutorial). CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.07.30 04:31:00 - [83] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Kahega Amielden I'd like to see a very very open buddy key system...maybe for example a forum where newbies can post and ask for trial keys... Actually that could work... but it would take a lot of admin. Almost anything that slows down the process of creating a new account would help (which is why I suggested mandatory completion of the tutorial). I don't think that throwing roadblocks like buddy key systems are worth it. It is too easy to fake, just like it's easy to make trial accounts. I run 2 mailservers across 3 domains. I can make all kinds of email addresses up for trial accounts. Or, I can just create gmail accounts until I am blue in the face. I don't think there is any way around it. Putting trials on their own server for 14 days until they pay up is probably the best solution, but I think this is not as easy as it sounds because... Trial accounts train skills and have assets, their name... etc. These things would need to be copied from one database to the other. (This is my guess) This also means the name they pick would have to be reserved. Someone could just cut to the chase and pay and jump right in with the rest of the players, in theory... so do you make that person do the trial as well or do you let them jump into the sandbox with us? I am guessing this method would require some design changes, but IMHO it's the best way to go.

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