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Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.26 18:34:00 - [61] Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow I never realised Anti-Support Sniper Eagles needed speed. They just warp in at 100, shoot they're target, and warp out when something starts to get in close. Now that peoples speeds are nerfed, it will be even easier to get out alive. Off topic, haha, but not only will snipers be in better shape, but consider the Falcon.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer	Posted - 2008.07.26 18:48:00 - [62] Originally by: Boz Well If you ever flew a nano ship, you'd know they aren't invincible. If you ever flew a nano ship, you'd know there are counters. If you ever flew a nano ship, you'd know they could kill a ratter (amazing I have to point this out). If you ever even PVP'd at all, you might not sound so clueless. There are counters in game for nano's and these counters include lots of things OTHER than more nano's. Look around on killboards, you'll find nano Ishtars, vagabonds, all sorts of fast ships that died. Look how much was spent on that teamwork crow, and look what he lost one to. Nano ships die. They aren't invincible. There are counters. While they changes aren't all bad, they're too numerous imo. What's sad is I'm guessing the dev's are making this numerous list of changes for people like you, lol, that are basing your whines on the game as it's in your head, and not as it is in reality. How about you elaborate as to what it takes to kill a nano? Dont include a nano huginn or other nano's though. What other methods can you use? Web? Gotta catch it first. And if you're lucky to get a lock on one just decloaking at a gate, that f'ers momentum is giong to take him right out of your web range. ....so, where you going man? What other awesome tactics can you use? Oh, and a nano killing a ratter? Pffft, 300dps recon plinging away at a BS? Get real. These things are annoying gnats that get ganks and avoid all kinds of serious fighting. And ***, I've pvp'd more than you ever have. I just prefer to use traditinoal tank/gank setups, as opposed to nano-* low slot grinding. As for HACs being too expensive to take out and slow boat...uh, people do it all the time with fleet BS's. Its a risk dude. Nano'ers like to avoid risk, sure, that's why you zip around at 5-10km a sec. But a small gang of tanked HACs is more effective because it can go toe to toe with defenders, as opposed to dancing around defense and disengaging at will. You do realize they're called 'Heavy' Assualt Cruisers because they can tank like champs? Some tard in the comments of the devblog was trying to tell me the Ishtar has a horrible tank. You new players are soo out of touch. ----------------- Friends Forever
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.07.26 18:50:00 - [63] Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow I never realised Anti-Support Sniper Eagles needed speed. They just warp in at 100, shoot they're target, and warp out when something starts to get in close. Now that peoples speeds are nerfed, it will be even easier to get out alive. Off topic, haha, but not only will snipers be in better shape, but consider the Falcon. I wonder what ship I like to fly
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.26 19:32:00 - [64] Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: DeadDuck A dual repper sacri with mwd will still make 1500 m/s, deploy more then 500 dps, and tank almost the same amounto of damage... Please explain, i apparently fail at fitting sacris, and i cant get that all to fit. Tough luck then... I get maybe 400 each tank and gank, but i cant get over 500 for both of them at once.
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.07.26 19:45:00 - [65] Some cheese with your whine? This isn't like the carrier nerf, where everyone (carebears, solo pvpers, 0.0 dwellers, whatever) pretty much said, 'wtf'? Behind the very vocal objections from some nano-hac pilots the majority of people I've read and talked to approve of these changes. The speed-arms-race has got to stop somewhere. ---
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.26 19:50:00 - [66] Edited by: DeadDuck on 26/07/2008 19:51:06 Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: DeadDuck A dual repper sacri with mwd will still make 1500 m/s, deploy more then 500 dps, and tank almost the same amounto of damage... Please explain, i apparently fail at fitting sacris, and i cant get that all to fit. Tough luck then... I get maybe 400 each tank and gank, but i cant get over 500 for both of them at once. Try This: Highs: 5 HAM II's ( with dread guristas HAM's) Meds: 1 10MN MWD II + 1 Warp Disruptor II + 1 sensor booster II + Medium Cap Booster II (800's) Lows: 2 Med Armour repairers II + 2 Amarr Navy EANM + 1 BCU II Rigs: Missile ROF + Missile damage Drne bay: 3 hodgoblins II Stats: Velocity: 1811 m/s (going to be nerfed)- 2588 m/s (overheated) DPS: 516 DPS (overheated 596 DPS) Rep: 405 (524 overheated) Lowest Resistance: 73.5 % termal Highest Resistance: 91.9 % explosive Is a mean ship ________________ God is my Wingman
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.26 21:01:00 - [67] Originally by: Achura Model So far so good. No arguments aside from "you are wrong because you are wrong". It's because you're making assertions based on a complete lack of evidence really. More importantly, it wasn't always possible to eek tons of speed out of ships and for much of the time Eve has been around Speed has been a minor concern. It wasn't until after I started playing a few years ago that they made a push to demonstrate speed should be important and a long series of boosts and modifications led us to this very moment. HAC's have existed longer than the modern nano concept - they still had a use before nano and they will have a use after nano. Missiles existed before nano and will continue after nano - and like every other weapon system in the game they waffle between awesome and terrible. Nerfing nano ships means that I might actually be able to deliver damage to another cruiser without resorting to frigate sized weapons (Assault Missile Launchers) Besides, most Nano Hac pilots SWEAR that they don't fly fast to become invincible - it's to "dictate range". As such nano pilots will STILL be able to do that against ships of the same class - they just won't be able to do it to smaller ships like they handily do now (look at the Assault Ship line if you're confused here).
Shin Ra BURN EDEN Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.26 21:03:00 - [68] Lol Denial
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.26 22:00:00 - [69] Originally by: Euriti Edited by: Euriti on 26/07/2008 09:19:50 Originally by: Randomness16 Do you really going to think the next dev blog will be 'o yea we completely forgot a tiny percentage of the game will be affected by the changes - therefore we completely rescind our earlier dev blog etc. etc.' Ever been outside of The Forge/The Citadel? Ever been to 0.0? ****ing seems not. The whole "wait and test stuff" thing is utter bullshit since the uproar was caused by what looks to be the final nail in the small gang coffin. This cannot be "TESTED" on Sisi, you cannot mimmick the jumpbridges/titans/caps/hotdrops/blobs etc. on sisi. It's not TQ. I went to lonetrek once
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.26 22:05:00 - [70] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Euriti Edited by: Euriti on 26/07/2008 09:19:50 Originally by: Randomness16 Do you really going to think the next dev blog will be 'o yea we completely forgot a tiny percentage of the game will be affected by the changes - therefore we completely rescind our earlier dev blog etc. etc.' Ever been outside of The Forge/The Citadel? Ever been to 0.0? ****ing seems not. The whole "wait and test stuff" thing is utter bullshit since the uproar was caused by what looks to be the final nail in the small gang coffin. This cannot be "TESTED" on Sisi, you cannot mimmick the jumpbridges/titans/caps/hotdrops/blobs etc. on sisi. It's not TQ. I went to lonetrek once You're right, you can't test those things. But. . . exactly howe often is one going to to fly a nano vagabond in a stiuation were there are jumprgridges/titans/caps/hotdrops? Seems to me the vaga would be running for cover long before this happens in the first place.
Freighter Jjoe	Posted - 2008.07.26 22:06:00 - [71] Really, For the cost - HAC's will just not be worth it. BC's will be just as good for a fraction of the price. Someone explain to me the justification of a 90mil HAC versus a 25mil BC with this proposed nerf? I can make a wonderful Harbinger that is fully insurable or spend an extra 100mil to make a Zealot? - not sure why I would with the proposed changes. I am not saying HAC's will be useless - just entirely unattractive as an option.
Freighter Jjoe	Posted - 2008.07.26 22:08:00 - [72] By the way, I love how so many people who are cheering these changes have very little PvP experience anyway. Kind of makes me laugh. Eve-online is essentially becoming wow. THis will be care-bear online. Pretty boring world they are making. Such a heavy handed nerf risks a pretty big part of their fan base, but maybe CCP is betting to get more by going the care-bear way.
ZW Dewitt	Posted - 2008.07.26 22:09:00 - [73] Originally by: Achura Model Second. No solo flying in 0.0 and therefore no solo pvp. Believe it or not PVP exists outside of 0.0
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.26 22:12:00 - [74] Originally by: Freighter Jjoe Really, For the cost - HAC's will just not be worth it. BC's will be just as good for a fraction of the price. Someone explain to me the justification of a 90mil HAC versus a 25mil BC with this proposed nerf? I can make a wonderful Harbinger that is fully insurable or spend an extra 100mil to make a Zealot? - not sure why I would with the proposed changes. I am not saying HAC's will be useless - just entirely unattractive as an option. This part is correct, but it's a HAC problem rather then a speed problem really. Non-nano HACs were always unattractive. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Freighter Jjoe	Posted - 2008.07.26 22:29:00 - [75] Originally by: ZW Dewitt Originally by: Achura Model Second. No solo flying in 0.0 and therefore no solo pvp. Believe it or not PVP exists outside of 0.0 But it should exist in 0.0 as well and - I am glad CCP is making it so blob fleet warfare will be lag free with these new proposed changes since that is the style that rally benefits here. Oh wait - nvm - there were no lag fix proposals.
Halkin Locus Solus	Posted - 2008.07.26 22:54:00 - [76] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Originally by: Haniblecter Teg People flew HACs before nano's got popular (rigs). They were powerful, survivable, and more manueverable. They also had better warp speeds and align times than the next tier of damage, the BS's. So, they'll still have a place. That place will be alot slower and utilize their superb tanking. So I'm supposed to tank a 120mill HAC (around -103mill if killed), just to get really sucky performance in dps/tank compared to my tier2 BC which costs only a fraction (-25mill if killed). Yes, they'll have a place, it's in the dustbin. people will still fly them regardless of cost, always have and always will. a few years ago BoB were judged on how many hacs they lost (insurable value being the main talking point) before these speeds became possible and they used them heavily maybe you wont use them, however the extra dps/tank/shiny hulls will be used by others. the same argument was said about t2/faction ammo, if you arent using it chances are the enemy will be taking your ship to pieces with it Originally by: Elise Randolph Everybody wins when trolls get trolled.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.26 23:01:00 - [77] Originally by: Halkin Originally by: Lilith Velkor So I'm supposed to tank a 120mill HAC (around -103mill if killed), just to get really sucky performance in dps/tank compared to my tier2 BC which costs only a fraction (-25mill if killed). Yes, they'll have a place, it's in the dustbin. ... however the extra dps/tank/shiny hulls will be used by others. the same argument was said about t2/faction ammo, if you arent using it chances are the enemy will be taking your ship to pieces with it Well... erm. T2/faction ammo wins fights. Picking a HAC and trying to solo a BC generally gets you killed in spectacular ways. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Halkin Locus Solus	Posted - 2008.07.26 23:05:00 - [78] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Halkin Originally by: Lilith Velkor So I'm supposed to tank a 120mill HAC (around -103mill if killed), just to get really sucky performance in dps/tank compared to my tier2 BC which costs only a fraction (-25mill if killed). Yes, they'll have a place, it's in the dustbin. ... however the extra dps/tank/shiny hulls will be used by others. the same argument was said about t2/faction ammo, if you arent using it chances are the enemy will be taking your ship to pieces with it Well... erm. T2/faction ammo wins fights. Picking a HAC and trying to solo a BC generally gets you killed in spectacular ways. each to their own i guess, i will still use them and most likely die a lot. the point is i still believe there is a place for them Originally by: Elise Randolph Everybody wins when trolls get trolled.
MECHcore Celestial Apocalypse The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.26 23:25:00 - [79] The nanonerf is the best thing to happen to this game in a long while. Just like they nerfed dual and triple mwd,s in the past. Solo pvping aint dead , yes its not as easy as in the past with the blobs around now , but still possible , im doing it 4years+ now with a ship that doesnt has speedmods at all , and i got good results and still plenty of fun. Nerf those nanochicken setups pls ! Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Hango ([email protected])
Morcam	Posted - 2008.07.27 01:44:00 - [80] It's good you posted this on an alt.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.07.27 01:55:00 - [81] Originally by: Freighter Jjoe By the way, I love how so many people who are cheering these changes have very little PvP experience anyway. Kind of makes me laugh. You must do a lot of stalking to know so much about so many people Originally by: Freighter Jjoe Eve-online is essentially becoming wow. THis will be care-bear online. Pretty boring world they are making. Ya, eve sucked before nanos as well, that's why no one played it, right? Originally by: Freighter Jjoe Such a heavy handed nerf risks a pretty big part of their fan base, but maybe CCP is betting to get more by going the care-bear way. I wonder how much of that big part lives by "Adapt or die"? Seems to me that people with your "all or nothing" attitude are few and far between.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.27 03:46:00 - [82] Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 26/07/2008 19:51:06 Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: DeadDuck A dual repper sacri with mwd will still make 1500 m/s, deploy more then 500 dps, and tank almost the same amounto of damage... Please explain, i apparently fail at fitting sacris, and i cant get that all to fit. Tough luck then... I get maybe 400 each tank and gank, but i cant get over 500 for both of them at once. Try This: Highs: 5 HAM II's ( with dread guristas HAM's) Meds: 1 10MN MWD II + 1 Warp Disruptor II + 1 sensor booster II + Medium Cap Booster II (800's) Lows: 2 Med Armour repairers II + 2 Amarr Navy EANM + 1 BCU II Rigs: Missile ROF + Missile damage Drne bay: 3 hodgoblins II Stats: Velocity: 1811 m/s (going to be nerfed)- 2588 m/s (overheated) DPS: 516 DPS (overheated 596 DPS) Rep: 405 (524 overheated) Lowest Resistance: 73.5 % termal Highest Resistance: 91.9 % explosive Is a mean ship err... It does 500 dps, given DG ammo (costs way too much imo), it doesnt take 500 dps until you overload the tank, and has faction junk on it. Tbh, i dont do faction junk on pvp ships, save maybe AN ammo.
Xzar Fyrarr Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.27 04:11:00 - [83] Edited by: Xzar Fyrarr on 27/07/2008 04:15:42 Yes- I agree that some of these things should be tested. Yes- I agree that we should wait before jumping to conclusions. But I will add my two cents. The blobing as it is - is bad. Lowsec atm from my experience- yes I fly nano and yes I don't fly nano at times- is. Either you Nano to live and fight another day You travel with a gang- not solo- Or you solo and you get killed by the blob more often than not. Minmatar will be taking a big hit for some of their ships. Vagabond in particular. The arguements that some people put up such as "XX cruiser SHOULD NOT be able to outrun my inty" or "Nanos are uncatchable." I've seen both ends of the arguement. A vagabond outran my claw before- true story. Why?- the Vaga had snakes faction fitting and polycarbs- I saw the killmail of it when someone finally managed to rapier it with dual webs and backup arrived. My claw only had aux thrusters rigs and nothing very expensive such as snakes and polycarbs ect. Nano machs-. Polycarbs- faction fittings- nanos ect, not to mention the cost of the ship itself. It does what after that? 8kms or so? Now put all that on your average inty and how fast will it go compared to the mach? If people dump stupid amounts of money into a Vagabond fitting but the said inty pilot doesn't dump as much money into the fitting - then yes the Vaga should* go faster. But what happens if you turn the tables and dump stupid amounts of isk into a claw, or a crow, or a crusader? Faction stuff/polycarbs/officer stuff snakes ect ect. I don't use EFT and will never use EFT- I prefer to figure stuff out by testing it in Amamake ect ect, but I can just make a guess that the interceptors will then go stupidly fast too or is that a wrong assumption? I agree- Snake implants and polycarbs need to be looked at very carefully. However the webs and scramb changes I won't argue against or for until I test the changes on the Test Server. My 2 cents Edit*****8 ------------------------------------------------------------ Can someone define for me exactly how to win a fight? Does wining have to include killmails? Or can it be just forcing a ship to disengage? While flying a Vaga during FW, I lost many a fight because I simply had to disengage - Nuets/ECMs/ ships positioning themselves around the gate so I wouldn't be able to approach or even orbit one ship without falling into anothers web range. What exactly does winning* mean in an engagement if I may ask.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.07.27 06:38:00 - [84] In FW, it's when you take the system. In nullsec, it's when you take the system. In non-FW, non-system taking related pvp, it's when you make a profit. Also, killmails. I don't see a point in pvping if I kill no one. No kills means I lost the fight, because I either had to flee, or lost tackle on the enemy, neither of which were my initial goals.
kessah State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.27 08:37:00 - [85] If you have a scout and are capable, you can survive anywhere. Battleship or not. You wont see solo piracy die at all, you'll see the people that use nano use smaller ships - and the cruisers will be used how they were ment to. Basically solo will be handed back to the players with bigger balls and those that arent willing to risk it, will return to there blob.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.27 12:31:00 - [86] Originally by: Diehard Si Originally by: Boz Well If you ever flew a nano ship, you'd know they aren't invincible. If you ever flew a nano ship, you'd know there are counters. If you ever flew a nano ship, you'd know they could kill a ratter (amazing I have to point this out). If you ever even PVP'd at all, you might not sound so clueless. There are counters in game for nano's and these counters include lots of things OTHER than more nano's. Look around on killboards, you'll find nano Ishtars, vagabonds, all sorts of fast ships that died. Look how much was spent on that teamwork crow, and look what he lost one to. Nano ships die. They aren't invincible. There are counters. While they changes aren't all bad, they're too numerous imo. What's sad is I'm guessing the dev's are making this numerous list of changes for people like you, lol, that are basing your whines on the game as it's in your head, and not as it is in reality. Spot on! The whining carebears always seem to ruin eve. I mean look at what happened to the Eos. Yes it was overpowered, but now its completely useless. So will most of Gallente and nearly all minmatar after this patch if those stupid ideas go through But on the flip side, the nanonerf will make a lot of previously useful ships viable. You've got a month's warning to get racial Cruiser V and begin training a new weapon type. Get started. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Flem'berk	Posted - 2008.07.27 12:58:00 - [87] Originally by: Achura Model Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:35:39 Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:33:54 Yes, I see you carebear suckers have already started your sucking carnival. But abate your gloat, it's kinda premature. Nerfing speed has some balance issues which I guess developers won't be able to solve. First. Missiles. They will obviously become an ultimate weapon. No tracking problems, steady damage, less SP to learn and now no speed penalties. Eventually developers will have to nerf them too. And it's too much of everything. Nope, for one thign if everything goes as you think very slowly my guns will track them and do more dps... Originally by: Achura Model Second. No solo flying in 0.0 and therefore no solo pvp. Yes, solo pvp is almost dead in EVE, but almost doesn't mean completely. Some pilots still can kill solo and like to do it. But you need to fly 3.5 km/s at least to be able to go through bubble gate camps. Without speed you're as good as dead. Bigger NO it helps to read and do the sums most ships that are ment to go at speed vagabond, huggins ect will still do simular speeds (ships between 3-5km/s will hardly be affected its those doing over 5km/s that will be slower.) Also some ships can cloak liek say recons or maby this will force people to use the black ops more. Originally by: Achura Model Third. The whole HAC class will be broken (well, perhaps aside from Cerberus and other anti-support snipers). The only advantage of HAC before BC and BS is a speed. Why would anyone fly a ship which has sucky tank, DPS and can't fly fast enough to compensate its weakness'? Many Hac's can fit respecable tanks and also have dps. If it wasnt for the fact the ships will retain alot of their speed which people seem unable to understand. they are more agile than bc's and bs's. Also for the carbearness in me a Hac makes a great ratting ship Before someone quotes the graph ccp did on ship speeds that was a ship with max skills and a t2 mwd and no other fittings, wait till monday if you cant be bothered to do the sums on how fast your ships will still go. TIS SIMPLE!
Bibi North Face Force	Posted - 2008.07.28 00:50:00 - [88] Edited by: Bibi on 28/07/2008 00:52:19 I dont understand ccp wants to reduce the huginn/rapier webifiers from 90% web to 50-60% there own word: (The 90% speed reduction makes combat too static and predictable when webifiers have been applied) so if the combat gets to static with webifiers why the hell a speed\nano nerf aswell ??? its not that fun I think going a few 100ms fighting a slow fight the only thing you can do its turn tank one and off to save cap and reload the guns thats about it to be honest. reason I fly nanoships is it requires more of myself I need to be 100% at all times in the fighting or I will die within seconds I get to be more active in the pvp not just activate modules on and off, I need to manually fly the ship with mwd to survive the fights and that is whats fun I belive... So talk about static fights and then nerf speed... is just double talk bullshit ideas. Its just boring if you cant do anything else then klick your mods on and off...
Taya Tal	Posted - 2008.07.28 02:21:00 - [89] Edited by: Taya Tal on 28/07/2008 02:22:03 Regardless of what this nerf does, I am going to continue to fly nanoships -- and more importantly, I'm going to continue to pursue solo pvp in the aformentioned nanoships (as well as small gangs). I don't see any real "huge" problem in this nano nerf. Minmatar has been Hard Mode from the start, now it has become Impossible Mode. I love challenges and to flourish while in Impossible Mode would be an epic achievement. This nano nerf (and web nerf, lest I forget my own rapier) has just made the game MORE fun for all minmatar. Now, pvp has become harder, if not MUCH harder, for Minmatar Nano-ships. But this is exactly the reason why this really isn't a straight "nerf," per se. You see, what fun would EVE be if it didn't keep getting harder? This nerf allows nanopilots, solo pilots, and minmatar pilots to increase their piloting and pvp skills more readily by playing EVE on a level of intensity that has never been possible before this (at least to my knowledge).
August Guns Minmatar Infinite ISK	Posted - 2008.07.28 02:37:00 - [90] Originally by: Bibi Edited by: Bibi on 28/07/2008 00:52:19 I dont understand ccp wants to reduce the huginn/rapier webifiers from 90% web to 50-60% I suspect part of it is to avoid the current duality of speed-based combat. Either you are outside 13km and able to escape, or within 13km and about to die. I for one don't think it is a workable system in that context because even with a 90% web nanoships are able to burn away from my non-nano ships with their inertia. The other reason webs were nerfed is because they would be superior to the new warp scramblers (90% web useful against afterburners as well as MWFs vs scramblers useful against MWDs only). I think minnie recons need love when the nerf hits. They need a web strength bonus that gives then 90% webs at Recon IV. August Guns

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