| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
   |
Posted - 2008.07.28 03:09:00 -
[91]
Did I miss the memo that HACs are going to flying 200 m/s now?
You still have more speed and agility over tier 2 BCs, and most of the HACs have a range bonus, allowing them to operate at safer distances, applying their damage.
Imagine you are back when HACs were 300-400 million pre-invention and nanofitting wasn't flavor of the month. What did you use HACs for then?
__________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Oyster Colors
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 03:36:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Artemis Rose
Did I miss the memo that HACs are going to flying 200 m/s now?
You still have more speed and agility over tier 2 BCs, and most of the HACs have a range bonus, allowing them to operate at safer distances, applying their damage.
The concern is primarily that they'll just not be able to compete anymore regarding price/performance.
If I'm reading the charts right, BCs will get more of a speed edge over BSs than they do now, so the mobility aspect is watered down a bit here (tho this is a very good change, BCs are way too slow compared to BS).
Under ideal conditions signature, agility and speed edge should be sufficient together with good resists, but I really dont know if its worth the pricetag.
|
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 03:48:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Derek Sigres on 28/07/2008 03:49:09
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Did I miss the memo that HACs are going to flying 200 m/s now?
You still have more speed and agility over tier 2 BCs, and most of the HACs have a range bonus, allowing them to operate at safer distances, applying their damage.
The concern is primarily that they'll just not be able to compete anymore regarding price/performance.
If I'm reading the charts right, BCs will get more of a speed edge over BSs than they do now, so the mobility aspect is watered down a bit here (tho this is a very good change, BCs are way too slow compared to BS).
Under ideal conditions signature, agility and speed edge should be sufficient together with good resists, but I really dont know if its worth the pricetag.
Keep in mind HACs were in use BEFORE the nano age. They may not tank or gank as hard as BC's but they certainly still have the edge in mobility. I'll still be flying my Cerb after the Nerf because the Nerf won't actually change what I do with it (Anti support/Anti Cruiser/Anti Nano/Anti Frigate)
Besides, BC's are to Cruisers as Destroyers are to Frigates really. It just hasn't seemed that way for a year or so now.
And let's not forget that the prices on many HACS will probably drop pretty quickly for awhile as a knee jerk reaction to this knee jerk reaction.
|
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 03:53:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Bibi
Edited by: Bibi on 28/07/2008 00:52:19
I dont understand ccp wants to reduce the huginn/rapier webifiers from 90% web to 50-60% there own word:
(The 90% speed reduction makes combat too static and predictable when webifiers have been applied)
so if the combat gets to static with webifiers why the hell a speed\nano nerf aswell ???
The issue is the 90% webs were REQUIRED because speeds were so ludicrous in some cases that webbing a target was difficult in general unless you were in a fast ship as well. Now that speeds slow down you don't need a brick wall of a web to get the job done.
With 90% webs, smaller/faser ships that get webbed die - plain and simple. With the new settings AB's become viable (no signature increase for your added speed unlike MWD and let's not forget the lower strength webs mean you'll still be able to keep a few hundred M/s of velocity).
By making combat static they mean under 13km is suicide for any ship that relies on being difficult to hit to stay alive. Now that zone represents new opportunities that weren't there before.
|
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Oyster Colors
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 04:21:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
I'll still be flying my Cerb after the Nerf because the Nerf won't actually change what I do with it (Anti support/Anti Cruiser/Anti Nano/Anti Frigate)
Not that I know it, but isnt the nano-Cerb a failboat anyway?
Originally by: Derek Sigres
And let's not forget that the prices on many HACS will probably drop pretty quickly for awhile as a knee jerk reaction to this knee jerk reaction.
Just to pull numbers out of nowhere, a price of around 45-50mill would sure go a long way towards creating more variety in viable fits.
|
Lrd Byron
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 04:41:00 -
[96]
I'm more concerned about the web nerf tbh. It certainly seems to hurt the minnie recons(which I just spent the last month and a half training for, *sigh) but won't it also make it completely impossible to catch anything at a gate? I mean, how will you stop a reasonably fast ship from burning back to the gate/station if he stumbles into a camp. Its hard enough as it is catch catch someone when they don't want to fight, it seems like it will be impossible now.
|
Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
VSP Corp.
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 05:00:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Derek Sigres
I'll still be flying my Cerb after the Nerf because the Nerf won't actually change what I do with it (Anti support/Anti Cruiser/Anti Nano/Anti Frigate)
Not that I know it, but isnt the nano-Cerb a failboat anyway?
His point was that he flys a hac that isn't nanoed.
|
mishkof
Caldari
Finis Lumen
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 06:03:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Taya Tal
Edited by: Taya Tal on 28/07/2008 02:22:03
Regardless of what this nerf does, I am going to continue to fly nanoships -- and more importantly, I'm going to continue to pursue solo pvp in the aformentioned nanoships (as well as small gangs). I don't see any real "huge" problem in this nano nerf. Minmatar has been Hard Mode from the start, now it has become Impossible Mode. I love challenges and to flourish while in Impossible Mode would be an epic achievement. This nano nerf (and web nerf, lest I forget my own rapier) has just made the game MORE fun for all minmatar. Now, pvp has become harder, if not MUCH harder, for Minmatar Nano-ships. But this is exactly the reason why this really isn't a straight "nerf," per se. You see, what fun would EVE be if it didn't keep getting harder? This nerf allows nanopilots, solo pilots, and minmatar pilots to increase their piloting and pvp skills more readily by playing EVE on a level of intensity that has never been possible before this (at least to my knowledge).
Some people like the above poster are taking this over the top. If you played before rigs came into eve you would know that vagas were good before then, and they became imbalanced at that point. Minny ships are the best roaming gang ships at this point. They will continue to be some of the best roaming gang ships in the future. There is a reason you see roaming gangs of 30 vagas...because they are not hard mode
Please cry less.
I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response.
[]hate me
[]troll me
[]smack me |
RayBanJockey
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 07:14:00 -
[99]
The OP is forgetting one thing. Everything was fine before the nano age.
Solo PvP was fine. In fact, I have never even attempted solo pvp since people started acting ridiculous in fast ships, and that's a long time ago :(
After the nano mongos are out of their I win pwnmobiles is when I'm getting into my scorp again and you're all buggered tbh. Just you wait and see.
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 07:55:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Achura Model
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:35:39
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:33:54
Yes, I see you carebear suckers have already started your sucking carnival. But abate your gloat, it's kinda premature. Nerfing speed has some balance issues which I guess developers won't be able to solve.
First. Missiles. They will obviously become an ultimate weapon. No tracking problems, steady damage, less SP to learn and now no speed penalties. Eventually developers will have to nerf them too. And it's too much of everything.
Second. No solo flying in 0.0 and therefore no solo pvp. Yes, solo pvp is almost dead in EVE, but almost doesn't mean completely. Some pilots still can kill solo and like to do it. But you need to fly 3.5 km/s at least to be able to go through bubble gate camps. Without speed you're as good as dead.
Third. The whole HAC class will be broken (well, perhaps aside from Cerberus and other anti-support snipers). The only advantage of HAC before BC and BS is a speed. Why would anyone fly a ship which has sucky tank, DPS and can't fly fast enough to compensate its weakness'?
So yes my dear whiners, you may dance your stupid jig and shout your idiot "yeeeeeeeah" but in the end everything will stay pretty much untouched.
Sorry, you have no clue.
1. Inties will still avoid missile fire and tracking weapons. Working as intended.
2. People will solo in frigs. Big deal. There will still be people out there soloing.
3. No hacs wont be broken except ships that are inherently broken in non nano fits like ishtar for example. Most hacs are plenty fast enough WITHOUT speed mods to escape/avoid danger. If you dont appreciate the agility and speed of a hac compared to a BC I doubt you have flown both. Its bullshit at best to call it useless.
It will be fine.
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 08:07:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Garia666 on 28/07/2008 08:07:39
Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Diehard Si
Edited by: Diehard Si on 26/07/2008 10:08:29
Basically they introduce this they kill off small scale PVP in 0.0, and probably lose a MASSIVE player base. May i remind everyone Jumpgate Evolution is on the horizon. If people can't have fun lag free PVP in this game, they will choose another one.
SO you get a few of you to go off and kill the chinese isk farmers deep in 0.0 space, you jump in with 5 smartly fit remote rep battleships, bang bubble, cyno, titan, doomsday--- dead.
Just not a viable option anymore. Too many titans in game now for that. Eve will prob collapse into Drakes everywhere, people get bored, stop playing, game over.
Can I have your stuff?
Oh and we are all pvp noobs, especially Siddy
Seriously though, minmatar ships were the only ones meant to do hit and run and their DPS is adjusted accordingly, ishtars cruising around like a vagabond and doing BS class dmg is definetly a design bug and not a feature. CCP is fixing this.
Also the change is good in the name of guerilla warfare, getting webbed meant game over so far, now you have a chance to move in and out of web range of a target or even use your transversal while orbiting to have an advantage over the target.
Final note, get over it, nothing stays static in EVE and no one misses 5 DMG mod gank boats or dual MWD ravens today, adapt or gimme ur stuff
Mr kunming here is a wise man..
www.garia.net |
Squatdog
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 08:25:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Achura Model
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:35:39
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:33:54
First. Missiles. They will obviously become an ultimate weapon. No tracking problems, steady damage, less SP to learn and now no speed penalties. Eventually developers will have to nerf them too. And it's too much of everything.
BWHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!
(no)
Also, there will still be plenty of small gang PVP in 0.0, the only difference being that the likes of -A- and Tri aren't going to be able to abuse invincible nano-gangs that are virtually impossible to catch.
|
Euriti
Gallente
SniggWaffe
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 08:35:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
3. No hacs wont be broken except ships that are inherently broken in non nano fits like ishtar for example. Most hacs are plenty fast enough WITHOUT speed mods to escape/avoid danger. If you dont appreciate the agility and speed of a hac compared to a BC I doubt you have flown both. Its bullshit at best to call it useless.
Finally someone sees the light about the ishtar, it's stupid to have medium hybrid bonus but only 3 hardpoints and not enough grid to fit them after putting mar + mwd + booster on. Too many slots too little cpu/grid.
|
Euriti
Gallente
SniggWaffe
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 08:38:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Squatdog
Originally by: Achura Model
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:35:39
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:33:54
First. Missiles. They will obviously become an ultimate weapon. No tracking problems, steady damage, less SP to learn and now no speed penalties. Eventually developers will have to nerf them too. And it's too much of everything.
Also, there will still be plenty of small gang PVP in 0.0, the only difference being that the likes of -A- and Tri aren't going to be able to abuse invincible nano-gangs that are virtually impossible to catch.
Them nanos, INVINCIBLE! UNPOSSIBLE to catch!
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Commander%20XXX&filter=losses&id=3678749#mail
Not really, I suspect we have a learn to play problem here.
|
fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 08:46:00 -
[105]
Edited by: fuxinos on 28/07/2008 08:49:21
freaking awesome how u guys argue about a planned nerf, that isnt even out yet.
everyone thinks hes right and knows how to do it better.
there isnt even something to argue about, ccp patches the game to the point how it was intended to be.
the game mechanics is broken and nano pvpers just abuse that, imagine if the game mechanics were not broken, then there wouldnt be much nano at all.
fast ships stay fast and ships who arent intended to be fast gonna be slow.
there is simply no point in arguing about that simple thing and tbh, only ppl who want the game like they want it leave after the nerf, but thats not the way how it works.
u cant tell ccp to let broken things broken.
|
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 09:02:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Siddy
I demand Duel at the dawn! 10 phases, then we draw handbags!
Epic !
-----------------------------------------------
Originally by: Paper
Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
|
Test Ctrl
Caldari
Tacos Revolution
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 09:17:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Squatdog
Originally by: Achura Model
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:35:39
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:33:54
First. Missiles. They will obviously become an ultimate weapon. No tracking problems, steady damage, less SP to learn and now no speed penalties. Eventually developers will have to nerf them too. And it's too much of everything.
BWHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!
(no)
Also, there will still be plenty of small gang PVP in 0.0, the only difference being that the likes of -A- and Tri aren't going to be able to abuse invincible nano-gangs that are virtually impossible to catch.
Well someone is bitter...
|
Bladen Kerst
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 10:21:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Squatdog
Originally by: Achura Model
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:35:39
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 08:33:54
First. Missiles. They will obviously become an ultimate weapon. No tracking problems, steady damage, less SP to learn and now no speed penalties. Eventually developers will have to nerf them too. And it's too much of everything.
BWHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!
(no)
Also, there will still be plenty of small gang PVP in 0.0, the only difference being that the likes of -A- and Tri aren't going to be able to abuse invincible nano-gangs that are virtually impossible to catch.
lol you do realize that they will simply switch to the next "uber-fit" and keep doing what they do best?
|
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 10:24:00 -
[109]
Originally by: kessah
Basically solo will be handed back to the players with bigger balls and those that arent willing to risk it, will return to there blob.
this.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
William DeMeo
Gallente
Genos Occidere
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 11:02:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Achura Model
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 09:21:59
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 09:18:36
Edited by: Achura Model on 26/07/2008 09:18:05
Lol, I see alotta "true pvpers" here. Guys, have you ever been to 0.0? Flying Tempest solo... Welcome to Sindicat man, I bet you won't survivle there more than 5 minuets with your "solo Tempest"...
Nobody would chose Ishtar before Dominix if it couldn't be nano. W/o nano Ishtar is just nothing...
HACs will become another assault ships. Like people nowdays prefer cruisers before ASs, they will prefer BCs before HACs if nano be nerfed...
WELCOME TO SINDICAT.
Imma fly a tanked ishtar but I think I will fail :(
Yarr |
mingmin
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 12:04:00 -
[111]
Gawd forget hacs, whats going to happen to my lovely and only decent solo amarrian ship, the curse 
|
Cpt Cosmic
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 12:06:00 -
[112]
I think too many players fail @using they brains to counter nano ships and instead of activating their braincells they go to the forum and cry like babies. now you have the result of this babies, a nerf that affects too much ships, yay welcome to capitals online :)
if you dont know how to counter nano ships, watch THIS
|
Hurtado Soneka
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 12:15:00 -
[113]
cosmic this balance is so much better, and not only for nanofogs but for the whole game in general 
|
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 12:15:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
I think too many players fail @using they brains to counter nano ships and instead of activating their braincells they go to the forum and cry like babies. now you have the result of this babies, a nerf that affects too much ships, yay welcome to capitals online :)
if you dont know how to counter nano ships, watch THIS
I think to many players fail @using they brains to use someting diffrent than Nanoships, instead fo activating her braincells and think about other playstyles they go to the forum and cry like babies.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
Dartuho
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 12:33:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Euriti
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
3. No hacs wont be broken except ships that are inherently broken in non nano fits like ishtar for example. Most hacs are plenty fast enough WITHOUT speed mods to escape/avoid danger. If you dont appreciate the agility and speed of a hac compared to a BC I doubt you have flown both. Its bullshit at best to call it useless.
Finally someone sees the light about the ishtar, it's stupid to have medium hybrid bonus but only 3 hardpoints and not enough grid to fit them after putting mar + mwd + booster on. Too many slots too little cpu/grid.
Actually no. You can fit dual MAR + Cap Boster plus triple t2 med. electron blasters with AB. Before those changes it was stupid. But now it will be viable tactics. Will be Ishtar great - hell no, Sacriledge for example will be much better. Will it be a bad ship - no as well, it still be ok one with good flexibility with good dronebay.
P.S.
Still a littlebit more CPU will be gods blessing.
|
Callib Gor'Karrithe
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 13:20:00 -
[116]
Oh how the tables have turned. People go from berating players who are upset (all be it a little too upset) about having their ships popped by these nano-idiots... now they're in here throwing tantrums about how they're potentially going to be permanently pulled back from æludicrous speed.Æ
It's the minmatar turn for a boot to the nuts. Amarr have had it, Gallente have had it... now it's minmatar, and after that, when the Caldari think they're all tough and mighty, they'll get a swift boot to the jewels as well. ;)
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 13:22:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Callib Gor'Karrithe
Oh how the tables have turned. People go from berating players who are upset (all be it a little too upset) about having their ships popped by these nano-idiots... now they're in here throwing tantrums about how they're potentially going to be permanently pulled back from æludicrous speed.Æ
It's the minmatar turn for a boot to the nuts. Amarr have had it, Gallente have had it... now it's minmatar, and after that, when the Caldari think they're all tough and mighty, they'll get a swift boot to the jewels as well. ;)
Tbh, I'm berating both groups. It's easy to spot new opportunities. You just have to adapt, and guess what, in a dynamically changing environment, you have to keep adapting.
Furthermore, people investing everything in something extremely popular are stupid, both in RL and in EvE, that's a great way to lose a lot.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:06:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Callib Gor'Karrithe
Oh how the tables have turned. People go from berating players who are upset (all be it a little too upset) about having their ships popped by these nano-idiots... now they're in here throwing tantrums about how they're potentially going to be permanently pulled back from æludicrous speed.Æ
It's the minmatar turn for a boot to the nuts. Amarr have had it, Gallente have had it... now it's minmatar, and after that, when the Caldari think they're all tough and mighty, they'll get a swift boot to the jewels as well. ;)
When I first started playing Caldari were unquestionably the WORST race for PVP - now we're pulling for the number 1 slot. Gallente were the best race and now they're racing minmitar for worst.
I stuck with Caldari because of some sage advice someone gave me a year and a half ago when i was sorely tempted to train something, ANYTHING else: No race will suck forever - you'll have your time to shine and your time to cry. Just make sure you remember you'll never be on top forever and once you hit the bottom rung the only place to go is up.
|
Phaedruss
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:10:00 -
[119]
Originally by: mingmin
Gawd forget hacs, whats going to happen to my lovely and only decent solo amarrian ship, the curse
Yes...the Curse :( So, with TDs only useful against turret ships (shame half of Eve flies missile and drone boats), and not really being able to armor tank it effectively, what happens to this ship now?
CCP, why do you always have to change so much in one go? The sledgehammer approach shows a distinct lack of development talent, causes multitudes of unforseen problems and extended downtimes in the furure, completely screws with any kind of rational 'evolution' of Eve, and of course, messes with the time and money people invest in skill training. Do it smart for a change and just nerf one thing at a time and be subtle about it i.e. the polycarb rigs, and see how it works out. These proposed changes represent a massive, unnecessary and for many, undesirable shift in gameplay. What's the point in changes of this magnitude?
|
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:17:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Phaedruss
Originally by: mingmin
Gawd forget hacs, whats going to happen to my lovely and only decent solo amarrian ship, the curse
Yes...the Curse :( So, with TDs only useful against turret ships (shame half of Eve flies missile and drone boats), and not really being able to armor tank it effectively, what happens to this ship now?
CCP, why do you always have to change so much in one go? The sledgehammer approach shows a distinct lack of development talent, causes multitudes of unforseen problems and extended downtimes in the furure, completely screws with any kind of rational 'evolution' of Eve, and of course, messes with the time and money people invest in skill training. Do it smart for a change and just nerf one thing at a time and be subtle about it i.e. the polycarb rigs, and see how it works out. These proposed changes represent a massive, unnecessary and for many, undesirable shift in gameplay. What's the point in changes of this magnitude?
Well nerfing speed means you can (and should) nerf the modules that make you slow down - you don't need a 90% web to make an MWDing cruiser a hittiable target. MWD's being shut off by scramblers are no real issue - afterall currently if you get in 13km range of a ship in a boat built for speed you die - now it's 9km. I can see pretty clearly what their rational was but I never had a truly nanoable ship. As a caldari pilot that avenue simply was not an attractive option other than on the Caldari Navy Caracal and Osprey - which would represent hugely expensive ships that move fast with t1 cruiser tanks.
To be honest, this is one of the better thought out nerfings I've seen in video game history - they didn't just nerf speed and say "there, done!" they moved on to second and third order of effects and looked at what needed to change there. But the Developers, like players can only use theorycraft at this point. With any luck, testers on SiSi will submit honest objective feedback and the patch will be modified to reflect valid concerns regarding balance issues.
As far as why doe it take these measures - look no further than yourselves. People scream nerf and boost left and right on these forums - and whoever yells loudest for the longest gets their way. It was this very group of people wo made gallente recons and NOS useless. And only we are to blame for the speed nerfings.
Besides, do you REALLY think it struck the developers as reasonable that people would be flying multibillion isk Vagabonds that could fly as fast if not faster than interceptors? It didn't occur to them that there would ever be more than a handful of Titans and we have dozens today.
Always remember - if you don't set hard limits on what players can do (and even if you do in many cases) the player base will always come up with something you didn't intend to work.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |