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Shepard Book Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:21:00 - [1] Edited by: Shepard Book on 28/07/2008 13:21:49 Speed stacking nerfs galore AGAIN. This affects the Minmatar more than anyone. Our Artillery is a joke. Damps are not much of an option with our many mids now. Nerfing webs and speed yet again makes rapiers which was one of our last few good ships ALOT less attractive now. In my opinion this helps blobbing alliances even more and nerfs guerilla warfare fighters. I wonder who they want to help most...
Wil Smithx	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:23:00 - [2] ROFLMFAO wow this is pure gold
Annowyn Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:25:00 - [3] Get back into your box.
SuiJuris	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:26:00 - [4] It might be a little overboard. But all the changes are supposed to be on SiSi right now. Why not login and try it out see how things really look?
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:26:00 - [5] lol minmatar are overpowered get over it
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:40:00 - [6] Our cruisers might have been before but now they are pretty useless. I don't plan on replacing my vagabond when it dies and I'm already training for amar battleships. At that point the only minmatar ship I'll fly will be my carrier (cuz it looks awesome) and a shuttle if I happen to feel like it... Oh my alt uses the cheetah. Cant forget the cheetah.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:41:00 - [7] when it comes to beating up a cripple in a wheelchair, the hard part is to nock them out of the chair, after that, it gets easier and easier to repeatedly put the boot into the stomach and head, after a while through pain they slip in and out of consciousness, this means less complaints from then on so you can keep doing it without interruption. This is the same attitude ccp has for we minmatar, we were decent once but with the repeated boots to the head we will be unlikely to recover unless we get some serious love and nursing.
Wil Smithx	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Nian Banks when it comes to beating up a cripple in a wheelchair, the hard part is to nock them out of the chair, after that, it gets easier and easier to repeatedly put the boot into the stomach and head, after a while through pain they slip in and out of consciousness, this means less complaints from then on so you can keep doing it without interruption. This is the same attitude ccp has for we minmatar, we were decent once but with the repeated boots to the head we will be unlikely to recover unless we get some serious love and nursing. Its your own fault your in a wheelchair, thats what happens when you ride a chair down the stairs wielding an uzi...
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Wil Smithx Originally by: Nian Banks when it comes to beating up a cripple in a wheelchair, the hard part is to nock them out of the chair, after that, it gets easier and easier to repeatedly put the boot into the stomach and head, after a while through pain they slip in and out of consciousness, this means less complaints from then on so you can keep doing it without interruption. This is the same attitude ccp has for we minmatar, we were decent once but with the repeated boots to the head we will be unlikely to recover unless we get some serious love and nursing. Its your own fault your in a wheelchair, thats what happens when you ride a chair down the stairs wielding an uzi... I loled. But the situation is still really sad.
Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Shepard Book Edited by: Shepard Book on 28/07/2008 13:21:49 Speed stacking nerfs galore AGAIN. This affects the Minmatar more than anyone. Our Artillery is a joke. Damps are not much of an option with our many mids now. Nerfing webs and speed yet again makes rapiers which was one of our last few good ships ALOT less attractive now. In my opinion this helps blobbing alliances even more and nerfs guerilla warfare fighters. I wonder who they want to help most... Which killboard are you on? I'm sorta curious to see some KM from these "guerilla warfare fighters" that seem so rare in the actual game. For some reason the people who I do see actually going around mixing things up solo aren't on here whining about these changes that we don't even have solid numbers on yet.
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:56:00 - [11] Minnie can't tank and can't gank. All i can really say is maybe the web changes will help us, but the scram change will negate that. Thats one change i'm definately against - f*king stupid idea that the 4 muskateers (read The Teletubies*) from the game balancing dept came up with. BTW - can you tell us how you where going to remove carriers ability to control all their fighters at once again? Cause it was funny how fast that got laughed off of the face of the planet the first time round. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Wil Smithx	Posted - 2008.07.28 14:03:00 - [12] Originally by: Maeltstome Minnie can't tank and can't gank. All i can really say is maybe the web changes will help us, but the scram change will negate that. Thats one change i'm definately against - f*king stupid idea that the 4 muskateers (read The Teletubies*) from the game balancing dept came up with. BTW - can you tell us how you where going to remove carriers ability to control all their fighters at once again? Cause it was funny how fast that got laughed off of the face of the planet the first time round. Removing a carriers ability to field drones removes its ability to own... Changing speed tanks simply makes them a little easier to catch and restricts speed to ships meant for it, like the vagabond and interceptors. These ships wont suffer that much in the patch assuming they get nerfed how ccp have said they might get nerfed. I'm still training for a skirmish mindlink because I know a ship with a 50% boost to speed is going to be able to speed tank if your limping around with a 9km range warp scram or not!
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.28 14:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Trojanman190 Our cruisers might have been before but now they are pretty useless. You're just kidding, right? ----- http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
korrey Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.28 14:22:00 - [14] First off, what should you expect? Your a slave race that has ships built out of duct-tape and cardboard. Why you should you be able to tank or gank? No sympathy from the Amarrian <--- We had to go through the same thing for a while. ----------- Amarr- If you like to handicap yourself before the fight begins, then we may accomodate your needs surprisingly well.
Xephys	Posted - 2008.07.28 14:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Spectre3353 Originally by: Trojanman190 Our cruisers might have been before but now they are pretty useless. You're just kidding, right? Whiners are always going to whine about nerfs. I use just Minni ships atm, and I rarely ever speed tank. It works out fine, but that may be just because I'm in lowsec, so tanking sentry guns > speed. :P P.S. <3 Eve Newb blog.
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.07.28 14:24:00 - [16] Originally by: korrey First off, what should you expect? Your a slave race that has ships built out of duct-tape and cardboard. Why you should you be able to tank or gank? No sympathy from the Amarrian <--- We had to go through the same thing for a while. Since the HP buffs amarr have been slowly becoming the best heavy-ship race. Training my other char for a perfect skills geddon atm. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
korrey Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.28 14:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Maeltstome Originally by: korrey First off, what should you expect? Your a slave race that has ships built out of duct-tape and cardboard. Why you should you be able to tank or gank? No sympathy from the Amarrian <--- We had to go through the same thing for a while. Since the HP buffs amarr have been slowly becoming the best heavy-ship race. Training my other char for a perfect skills geddon atm. I don't deny Amarr are good now. They still have a few rough edges here and there, but nothing to start a new thread about. As far as minmatar? I'm happy they got nerfed for speed. I hope they get a boost in some other area, but im just tired of everyone in the game flying at 5,500 m/s in cruisers around me. When people start nano-ing Zealots and Sacrileges, you know there is probably an issue with Speed in this game. ----------- Amarr- If you like to handicap yourself before the fight begins, then we may accomodate your needs surprisingly well.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.07.28 15:05:00 - [18] Originally by: korrey im just tired of everyone in the game flying at 5,500 m/s in cruisers around me. When people start nano-ing Zealots and Sacrileges, you know there is probably an issue with Speed in this game. ^this finnally i dont have to feel bad when i say..no this setup cant go 4km a sec lol poudly annoying fc's since 2007 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast
Anubis Hatak OUTLAWZ IMMORTAL	Posted - 2008.07.28 15:10:00 - [19] Rapier and huginn are fine still. Everything moves so slow now the web nerf makes no difference..
Siemiona	Posted - 2008.07.28 15:33:00 - [20] Shepard...can i get your stuff please.. I like reading post like that..it's a pretty comedy. Youre saing that Minmatar ships are utter crap? and you know why..? Because youre placing only two or three kinds of thing on low slots. Take a look on market and read...meaby there is something else what can fit in? BTW. L2 mishes can be done in cruisers i guess, you don't need recon
Reithan Caldari Dead 2 Rights	Posted - 2008.07.28 15:43:00 - [21] Well, it only makes sense that the minmatar are here *****ing about pvp nerfs, since they're already the worst at it...oh...wait... -----------------------------------------------
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.28 15:48:00 - [22] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 28/07/2008 15:50:34 Originally by: Stab Wounds lol amarr are overpowered get over it Duly noted. Edit: Not that the OP was any good... but the responses were even worse. You guys want to have some serious posts instead of "ROFL ROFL ROFL MINNIE 4 OP AND PVP KINGS ROFL". 'Cause repeating things from 2 years ago isn't exactly up to date.
Callib Gor'Karrithe Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:00:00 - [23] It's essentially the same situation as two years ago. And one year ago. And hell, even a few months ago. All the babies that can't bother to play this game properly start ****ing and whining because things change. Rigs were a bad idea, because rigs caused this whole fcking mess. Learn to adapt. People learned to adapt to get ships to run at ludicrous speed to begin with, and now you're crying because CCP gave their head a shake? This is just pathetic. Amarr got the nerf first, then the Gallies, now the Minnies... guess who's being gunned for next?? Oh no!! Not the Caldari!!!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Shepard Book Edited by: Shepard Book on 28/07/2008 13:21:49 Speed stacking nerfs galore AGAIN. This affects the Minmatar more than anyone. Our Artillery is a joke. Damps are not much of an option with our many mids now. Nerfing webs and speed yet again makes rapiers which was one of our last few good ships ALOT less attractive now. In my opinion this helps blobbing alliances even more and nerfs guerilla warfare fighters. I wonder who they want to help most... I can have it? You know....your stuff. I can have it , right? Sorry but this nerf doesnt effect some minmatar ships at all. Actually now the vagabond will be THE fastest HAC. Sorry you fail at eve. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:23:00 - [25] Hey guys. How about trying it on the test server, and giving feedback. That might be kinda cool. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:28:00 - [26] Originally by: Beltantis Torrence Originally by: Shepard Book Edited by: Shepard Book on 28/07/2008 13:21:49 Speed stacking nerfs galore AGAIN. This affects the Minmatar more than anyone. Our Artillery is a joke. Damps are not much of an option with our many mids now. Nerfing webs and speed yet again makes rapiers which was one of our last few good ships ALOT less attractive now. In my opinion this helps blobbing alliances even more and nerfs guerilla warfare fighters. I wonder who they want to help most... My favorite part of guirella warfare was the fact that the nano's always came in blobs. When they came alone everything was gravy so they'd bring friends. In my book the lone nano was a fantastically weak ship - I might not be able to kill it without specific gear but he sure as hell couldn't kill me either (ishtar and sac being the exceptions to the rule on both accounts - but neither would actually stick around until the explosion) Nano doesn't stop the blob - it just makes it move faster. Blobbing is inevitable in a game that tries as hard as possibe to disuade you from flying solo. Which killboard are you on? I'm sorta curious to see some KM from these "guerilla warfare fighters" that seem so rare in the actual game. For some reason the people who I do see actually going around mixing things up solo aren't on here whining about these changes that we don't even have solid numbers on yet.
korrey Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:34:00 - [27] Edited by: korrey on 28/07/2008 16:35:13 I logged on the Test Server, found that my Non-Nano'd Zealot was completely unharmed. And logged off. See how easy that was? If everyone stopped Nano'ing ships that weren't meant to be nanoed, you don't get nerfed as hard. Simple, really... Vagabond/Curse = Nano-worthy Just about everything else = Fit based on your bonuses. Edit: All CCP did really, was make ships that were not meant to be nanoe'd impossible to nano. Vagabond will still be the fastest HAC. Quite yer belly'aching. ----------- Amarr- If you like to handicap yourself before the fight begins, then we may accomodate your needs surprisingly well.
Wil Smithx	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:46:00 - [28] Originally by: korrey Edited by: korrey on 28/07/2008 16:35:13 I logged on the Test Server, found that my Non-Nano'd Zealot was completely unharmed. And logged off. See how easy that was? If everyone stopped Nano'ing ships that weren't meant to be nanoed, you don't get nerfed as hard. Simple, really... Vagabond/Curse = Nano-worthy Just about everything else = Fit based on your bonuses. Edit: All CCP did really, was make ships that were not meant to be nanoe'd impossible to nano. Vagabond will still be the fastest HAC. Quite yer belly'aching. So now we can finally say goodbye to nano ishtars and feel safe in the knowledge that our heavy passive tanks will last till we can call support...
Monsieur Escargots The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:53:00 - [29] at last, i can finally fit my Zealots how I want them to be fitted, rather than being forced to nano everything just to keep up with the curve! Looking forward to doing some serious melting again.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Monsieur Escargots at last, i can finally fit my Zealots how I want them to be fitted, rather than being forced to nano everything just to keep up with the curve! Looking forward to doing some serious melting again. QFT, so sick of seeing nubs in nano zealots. I told people this day would come, but they mocked me. :-p ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
korrey Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.28 17:13:00 - [31] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Monsieur Escargots at last, i can finally fit my Zealots how I want them to be fitted, rather than being forced to nano everything just to keep up with the curve! Looking forward to doing some serious melting again. QFT, so sick of seeing nubs in nano zealots. I told people this day would come, but they mocked me. :-p I wouldn't exactly go that far (as to call them noobs). They adapted. Speed made the Zealot even better IMO (I just never used it). I prefer the old fashioned tank. The people that nano'd their Zealots were pretty smart, playing to their own advantage. But now that it's been nerfed, life can resume as normal. And Amarr ships can go back to tanking, their true calling in EvE. ----------- Amarr- If you like to handicap yourself before the fight begins, then we may accomodate your needs surprisingly well.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.28 20:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Sorry but this nerf doesnt effect some minmatar ships at all. Well, it only leaves a few decent ships left. The rupture, rifter, hurricane. The typhoon is okay, but it held on the crutches of other races' technology and pales in comparison to a raven. The vagabond is probably still going to be okay, but this "fix" certainly won't make it better. Our recons will be okay, but slow. Less powerful too. I'm sure you'll argue our HIC and dictor, yeah they're okay. But no, before you say it, the muninn isn't. Neither are projectiles. Quote: Actually now the vagabond will be THE fastest HAC. Sorry you fail at eve. Wasn't it always? You know, aside from the 100mn zealot comedy fits. The only difference is the gap got smaller, and this is especially important when considering inties. The devs said that inties weren't going to take a real hit, but their lovely new overdrive and MWD numbers, among other things, makes them slower. I haven't tried out sisi though. If you can get a ceptor going 7-8k without much difficulty, I'd say the vagabond is toast, for at least doing what it was good at. Picking off small stuff from gatecamps, killing inties and dictors.
Jane Sylari Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.28 22:22:00 - [33] Originally by: Shepard Book Edited by: Shepard Book on 28/07/2008 13:21:49 How many times will they nerf Minmatar ships without any buffs? Over 9000 times! -----
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.07.28 22:27:00 - [34] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 28/07/2008 22:27:13 Originally by: AstroPhobic If you can get a ceptor going 7-8k without much difficulty, I'd say the vagabond is toast, for at least doing what it was good at. Picking off small stuff from gatecamps, killing inties and dictors. Actually no, the role of a vagabond is being a heavy tackler that cant be picked off by support snipers like inty tacklers can. Picking off inties and dictors is the role of pulse zealots, eagles and muninns. I think you have to live with that. Besides, vagabond can still kill an interceptor if you dont fail fit it. You know, you need to fit that medium neut in the high. Im not really sure what you are complaining about? ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.28 22:37:00 - [35] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 28/07/2008 22:27:13 Originally by: AstroPhobic If you can get a ceptor going 7-8k without much difficulty, I'd say the vagabond is toast, for at least doing what it was good at. Picking off small stuff from gatecamps, killing inties and dictors. Actually no, the role of a vagabond is being a heavy tackler that cant be picked off by support snipers like inty tacklers can. Picking off inties and dictors is the role of pulse zealots, eagles and muninns. I think you have to live with that. Besides, vagabond can still kill an interceptor if you dont fail fit it. You know, you need to fit that medium neut in the high. Im not really sure what you are complaining about? I'm not complaining (about the nano nerf in particular). But this is by no stretch of the imagination a minmatar buff, or a vagabond buff. I think if it's role was heavy tackler, it would have some sort of "bonus" to that sort of thing. Tracking disruptors (okay, that's a stretch), tracking bonus, a large amount of cap to run that MWD... the best it's got is dual LSE buffer and pray to god your MWD lasts. I don't think it was engineering to be a heavy tackler, rather than be molded into one. It's got 2 damage bonuses, a falloff bonus and a speed bonus. Sounds to me that it was intended to be the ship it is now, a skirmish ship with the ability to control range and do the DPS of a pea shooter. It will still be able to control range and do the DPS of a pea shooter, but it's still vulnerable to so many of the anti-nano tactics that were available pre-nerf. Now even more, post-nerf. I think it would be interesting to see how many large cap battery/LSE setups we'll see. 3.5k/s or so depending on rigs/lows, so you're far from untouchable. Inties will have an easy time getting transversal up while still sticking a point on, and now with half the speed it will be a lot more feasible to get a warp in on a ceptor and get support on a vagabond. Even if it's role is heavy tackler... it's going to fall behind the ceptors. Speed certainly won't be comparable, and you won't have a web or a 9km...
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2008.07.28 23:14:00 - [36] As a minmatar pilot i wholeheartedly welcome this nanonerf, which restricts the bonuses of modules. Minmatar ships are naturally fast and agile. This is a boost. We'll be able to navigate out of blaster range even while webbed, while dictating distance.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.28 23:19:00 - [37] Originally by: EpicFailTroll As a minmatar pilot i wholeheartedly welcome this nanonerf, which restricts the bonuses of modules. Minmatar ships are naturally fast and agile. This is a boost. We'll be able to navigate out of blaster range even while webbed, while dictating distance. it coudl be a boost if our base speed was increased .. but no. Now we are goign to be SLOWER than blaster boats so we won 't escape them EVER. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Shepard Book Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.07.28 23:23:00 - [38] Here is another post that adds to this discusion. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=833894
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.28 23:42:00 - [39] Originally by: EpicFailTroll As a minmatar pilot i wholeheartedly welcome this nanonerf, which restricts the bonuses of modules. Minmatar ships are naturally fast and agile. This is a boost. We'll be able to navigate out of blaster range even while webbed, while dictating distance. I really don't understand people like you. This is nothing like a boost. Ex. Before(made up numbers): Vagabond 5000m/s. Zealot 4000m/s. 1000m/s advantage. After: 2500m/s. Zealot 2000m/s. 500m/s advantage. In case you didn't notice, minmatar ships got nano nerfed too. Ceptors didn't get hit as hard... which guess what, really hurts minmatar.
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:18:00 - [40] Originally by: AstroPhobic I really don't understand people like you. This is nothing like a boost. Ex. Before(made up numbers): Vagabond 5000m/s. Zealot 4000m/s. 1000m/s advantage. After: 2500m/s. Zealot 2000m/s. 500m/s advantage. In case you didn't notice, minmatar ships got nano nerfed too. Ceptors didn't get hit as hard... which guess what, really hurts minmatar. 60% web means the 1/5th extra speed minmatar have translates into some useful advantage and not 25m/s as before.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:20:00 - [41] Originally by: EpicFailTroll 60% web means the 1/5th extra speed minmatar have translates into some useful advantage and not 25m/s as before. I don't follow you. Minnie ships don't MWD and fire. Minnie ships SURELY don't fight in web range either. Even if our optimal suggests it.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Shepard Book Edited by: Shepard Book on 28/07/2008 13:21:49 Speed stacking nerfs galore AGAIN. This affects the Minmatar more than anyone. Our Artillery is a joke. Damps are not much of an option with our many mids now. Nerfing webs and speed yet again makes rapiers which was one of our last few good ships ALOT less attractive now. In my opinion this helps blobbing alliances even more and nerfs guerilla warfare fighters. I wonder who they want to help most... Obviously you didnt get the memo on how eve works, ill explain it to you. Amarr are overpowered(2004-5 that is)they get nerfed, gellente are now overpowered....they get nerfed, minmatar are overpowered, they get nerfed and amarr get buffed. Its a cycle, the sky isnt falling, sadly your going to be amarr 06 now. Oh and just for future reference, I dont think nanoing was that overpowered(they had many advantages yes)but not enough to merit such a nerf.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.07.29 03:23:00 - [43] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: EpicFailTroll 60% web means the 1/5th extra speed minmatar have translates into some useful advantage and not 25m/s as before. I don't follow you. Minnie ships don't MWD and fire. Minnie ships SURELY don't fight in web range either. Even if our optimal suggests it. I think it was Lyrus who posted in another thread saying on the test server a 'nano' Vagabond with Afterburner is actually very survivable closeranged with a web on it? What I love about this is, finally I can use the Zealot of my dreams (which isn't nano) and MWDs aren't mandatory! Also Assault Frigates have a role now, to fight effectively in web range which is awesome. Ok I have to admit, I do use a somewhat nano'd sacrilege which goes 3,2km/s which is nothing but this is mainly a ratting ship so whatevah :P ------------ Somebody set up us the bomb
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 03:30:00 - [44] Maybe. I don't see what it would be good for, though. There's obviously better choices when it comes to fighting that close, or fighting with an AB.
Arazel Chainfire The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.07.29 03:35:00 - [45] Originally by: Callib Gor'Karrithe It's essentially the same situation as two years ago. And one year ago. And hell, even a few months ago. All the babies that can't bother to play this game properly start ****ing and whining because things change. Rigs were a bad idea, because rigs caused this whole fcking mess. Learn to adapt. People learned to adapt to get ships to run at ludicrous speed to begin with, and now you're crying because CCP gave their head a shake? This is just pathetic. Amarr got the nerf first, then the Gallies, now the Minnies... guess who's being gunned for next?? Oh no!! Not the Caldari!!! Its possible to nerf the caldari more in pvp? how exactly were you planning to manage this now... oh wait... the falcon nerf, now I remember On another note - eve will go on, and someone will come up with the new kind of "overpowered". As long as there is some way to effectively fight while outnumbered, I really don't care. -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.29 04:15:00 - [46] Originally by: goodby4u Obviously you didnt get the memo on how eve works, ill explain it to you. Amarr are overpowered(2004-5 that is)they get nerfed, gellente are now overpowered....they get nerfed, minmatar are overpowered, they get nerfed and amarr get buffed. Its a cycle, the sky isnt falling, sadly your going to be amarr 06 now. Oh and just for future reference, I dont think nanoing was that overpowered(they had many advantages yes)but not enough to merit such a nerf. I think the cycle goes something like this: - Players find a winning tactics X and Y around good ships for races A and B - Players from races C and D whine about races A and B and tactics X and Y - Race C gets a huge boost and race B gets a huge nerf. Race A is minorly nerfed and race D is minorly boosted - Race B begins whining because most of their ships suck. - Race C is still not competing at tactic X, but is dominating at tactic Y. People whine about tactic X. - Race D gets a huge boost. People whine about tactics X and Y (and races A and B which are famous for it). - Race D gets a huge boost, and becomes (in all ways, unquestionably) better at both tactics X and Y than races A and B. Race A receives minor nerf. - Race A begins whining races C and D are both better at tactics X and Y respectively. - Races A, B, C, and D receive huge nerfs to tactic X. Tactic Y is boosted for races C and D. - Races B, C, and D all fall back to previous niches. Final outcome: - Race A: Useless in all things. Its niche tactics are destroyed from the core. - Race B: Minorly useful within very specific roles - Race C: Generally useful, and Best of Breed in many niches from races A, B, and C. - Race D: VERY useful, and best of breed in many roles for races A, B, and D. Sure, it's a big loop ... and the only way to deal with it is to get alts into 3 or 4 of the races. Otherwise, you'll be left in situations like Minmatar are about to be in: useless even in the roles that they were designed for. I'm really f'ing curious what the excuse will be now. I mean, previously people have all been like "but ur cruizers are f'ing pwnszuce i meen look at teh vaga its uber against my torpeetoes!" Now: - Rifter: Useful - Vigil: Useful - Cheetah: Nerfed (Looks... meh, I'm vain) - Stiletto: Useful - Claw: Useless (2 mids.. you'd think it's Amarrian) - Hyena: Nerfed (Nano/Web) - Jag: Useful (For an AF) - Wolf: Useful (For an AF) - Thrasher: Useful (For a Dessie) - Sabre: Useful (but ffs get in a cheaper dictor. They're f'ing expensive and get instapopped) - Stabber: Nerfed (Nano) - Rupture: Useful - Huginn: Nerfed (Nano/Web) - Rapier: Nerfed (Nano/Web) - Vaga: Nerfed (Nano) - Muninn: Useless - Broadsword: Useful - Hurricane: Slightly Nerfed (Speed was really the equalizer between the Harby and the Cane) - Sleip: Nerfed (Speed) - Claymore: Nerfed (Speed) - Phoon: Useful, if you've got 30M SP dedicated to it. - Tempest: Useless - Maelstrom: Useless (Artillery suck and it's too heavy to be a proper AC boat) - Nidhoggur: Useless (BUT ITS FREAKING VERTICAL!) - Naglfar: Useless (BUT ITS FREAKING VERTICAL!) - Scimitar: Nerfed (Speed) So what's good these days? - Rifter, Vigil, Thrasher, Rupture, Hurricane (meh, you gotta deal with sucking sometimes), Jaguar, Wolf, Stiletto, Broadsword. Notice anything? Two of the classes are pretty well useless (Destroyers and AF's), leaving us with 6 useful ships out of all of them. F'ing fantastic. I'm really happy with 26M Minmatar dedicated SP. TBFH, I'm debating turning off the character because he's going to be **ing useless for the next year and a half. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.29 04:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Arazel Chainfire Its possible to nerf the caldari more in pvp? how exactly were you planning to manage this now... oh wait... the falcon nerf, now I remember On another note - eve will go on, and someone will come up with the new kind of "overpowered". As long as there is some way to effectively fight while outnumbered, I really don't care. -Arazel TBFH I trained Caldari BS 5 and haven't regretted it for a moment. Caldari ships are totally unbelievable right now. Hell, I have Caldari Cruiser 5/BS 4 for my Gallente character because their ships are so much better. I'm not sure how you can possibly whine about Caldari sucking in PVP. Kestrel, Harpy, Caracal, Drake, Ferox, Scorpion, Raven, Rokh, Cerb, Falcon, Rook, Kitsune, Blackbird, blah blah blah blah my fingers are tired of expounding how my Caldari character pwns face over both Gallente and Matari. At any rate, if you say Caldari suck at PVP, I have two words for you: Torp Raven. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.29 04:27:00 - [48] No liang, nidhoggur isnt vertical(thus is useless).
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.29 04:35:00 - [49] Originally by: goodby4u No liang, nidhoggur isnt vertical(thus is useless). Hmmm... I was pretty sure I'd flown a Niddy on Armageddon day. Ah well, memories fade and all that. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2008.07.29 04:39:00 - [50] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: goodby4u No liang, nidhoggur isnt vertical(thus is useless). Hmmm... I was pretty sure I'd flown a Niddy on Armageddon day. Ah well, memories fade and all that. -Liang Pretty sure the minnie carrier is excellent for fleet work. ________ Originally by: Tarminic I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.29 04:56:00 - [51] Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Pretty sure the minnie carrier is excellent for fleet work. Pretty sure it isn't. The Rep bonus is nice (I assume that's what you're referring to), but rep bonuses don't help you if you're the primary now do they? So tell me, you have this situation: Archon, Niddie remote repping each other. Who do you primary? Oh, the Niddie... because it's not supported as well as the Archon, has less EHP, less tank (resists), etc. No, it's useful as long as it's not the one being primaried... which generally means it's ok for assigning fighters from the POS while it reps. I guess that's "excellent". I <3 my POS Repping for 8 hours a day!!!! -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2008.07.29 05:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Pretty sure the minnie carrier is excellent for fleet work. Pretty sure it isn't. The Rep bonus is nice (I assume that's what you're referring to), but rep bonuses don't help you if you're the primary now do they? So tell me, you have this situation: Archon, Niddie remote repping each other. Who do you primary? Oh, the Niddie... because it's not supported as well as the Archon, has less EHP, less tank (resists), etc. No, it's useful as long as it's not the one being primaried... which generally means it's ok for assigning fighters from the POS while it reps. I guess that's "excellent". I <3 my POS Repping for 8 hours a day!!!! -Liang Of course you'd primary the nid, however where you have two carriers, you can probably have 4, or 6, or 20. The more you have, the more the local tank becomes useless. You can slap buffer/resists on it and pray in gang, but relatively speaking loosing a carrier isn't a HUGE deal. I'd worry more about getting the job of remote BS and smaller fleet support repairing done than worrying over my own ship. ________ Originally by: Tarminic I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.29 05:16:00 - [53] Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Of course you'd primary the nid, however where you have two carriers, you can probably have 4, or 6, or 20. The more you have, the more the local tank becomes useless. You can slap buffer/resists on it and pray in gang, but relatively speaking loosing a carrier isn't a HUGE deal. I'd worry more about getting the job of remote BS and smaller fleet support repairing done than worrying over my own ship. Once you have 4, 6, or 20 carriers the rep bonus is really useless too. Those numbers work both ways. Maybe you haven't noticed just how much HP is repped per carrier/cycle? -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2008.07.29 05:21:00 - [54] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Of course you'd primary the nid, however where you have two carriers, you can probably have 4, or 6, or 20. The more you have, the more the local tank becomes useless. You can slap buffer/resists on it and pray in gang, but relatively speaking loosing a carrier isn't a HUGE deal. I'd worry more about getting the job of remote BS and smaller fleet support repairing done than worrying over my own ship. Once you have 4, 6, or 20 carriers the rep bonus is really useless too. Those numbers work both ways. Maybe you haven't noticed just how much HP is repped per carrier/cycle? -Liang I most certainly have noticed, I just completely disagree with you on the nid being 'useless' other than for assigning fighters. The dual rep bonus is a huge boon to gangs that have more than one tanking type, and the nid should on average have more use than the thanatos for doing the job it was designed for (support). Chimera and archon have their uses (I fly the chimera), however if I'm sitting in a BS on the gate and have one carrier to choose from for support I know which I'd prefer. ________ Originally by: Tarminic I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.29 05:29:00 - [55] Originally by: Admiral Pelleon I most certainly have noticed, I just completely disagree with you on the nid being 'useless' other than for assigning fighters. The dual rep bonus is a huge boon to gangs that have more than one tanking type, and the nid should on average have more use than the thanatos for doing the job it was designed for (support). Chimera and archon have their uses (I fly the chimera), however if I'm sitting in a BS on the gate and have one carrier to choose from for support I know which I'd prefer. Uh, really man, one carrier on a gate is asking for the gank (esp a Niddy). If you're not putting 2+ caps on the gate, don't do it. TBFH, I'm not sure I'd say that 2 or 3 battleship losses is really worth a carrier loss (mine or an alliance mate's). -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi

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