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Attn : All nano-pilots out there => plug your brains back in

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reivol	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:39:00 - [1] Hi guys, that was easy, this won't be easy anymore :) Please have a look at these two guides .... You do remember them, don't you ? - http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_5.asp - http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_3.asp The bad news is that you'll have to learn how to fly a ship and to adjust your transveral velocity, not anymore you'll just have to engage MWD and warp away The good news is that with proper flying you'll still be able to have a huge amount of damage reduction by speed tanking (preliminary test shows a 50 to 90% reduction against the better gunboat or missile boat). Yes I know, that's no more 100% damage reduction but, He ! that's life, it isn't always a piece of cake :p I advise you to go on Sisi and try all of that ... then come back here to cry
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:41:00 - [2] You'll still die.
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:41:00 - [3] look guys.. a carebear is trying to tell us how to pvp... lets all do this :P and yes.. i have adapted... turned my nano zealot into something else and took out lacheisis, curse and ishtar whit it :P ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:44:00 - [4] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:48:00 - [5] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 28/07/2008 16:48:39 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. This. Someone posted a good setup a week ago but people are to lazy to change the way they fit. They want whatever they are currently in to kill whatever they happen to encounter. It is the carebear way.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:51:00 - [6] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 28/07/2008 16:51:45 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. And if people like you had understood the core problem of the nano age was NOT the ability to hit them, then you wouldnt write such nonsense either. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Trojanman190 Edited by: Trojanman190 on 28/07/2008 16:48:39 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. This. Someone posted a good setup a week ago but people are to lazy to change the way they fit. They want whatever they are currently in to kill whatever they happen to encounter. It is the carebear way. I disagree. Nano forced people to blob up and made anti-blob fleet tactics obsolete. E.G 20 vs 100 man blob. The 20 can use cov ops to line up hit and run warpto's so the 20 can start killing the weakist side of the blob before dictors/cepters etc came in and bubbled etc. Since Nano campe in, hit and run tactics became obsolete since 13k/sec cepters would be on the enemy in moments, thus making the blob prevail. Now with speed nerf, anti-blob tactics will re-arrise and cov ops pilots with brains are backin high demand
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:57:00 - [8] Originally by: McDonALTs Since Nano campe in, hit and run tactics became obsolete You posted that in the other thread, but it sounds even more stupid the second time.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.28 17:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. But just try hitting those fast ships with Heavy Missiles, HAM's or Rockets. In the first two cases you don't have the explosion velocity to deal damage, in the last case you didn't have the range to hit a nano boat. That left us missile users with the 200 DPS AML with precision lights. Not a perfect fit but 200 DPS is a hell of a lot better than the 0 I was netting with precision heavies My complaint, once I realized inability to hit nano's was a missile only problem, quickly turned to an issue with the missiles themselves, not the nano ship. I simply assumed early on that everyone had the same problem with the whines I was hearing. Then I started moonlighting in amarr ships and found to my surprise pulse lasers hit nanos pretty well - well enough that they don't stick around to see if they can kill my Harbinger. . .
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.28 17:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. But just try hitting those fast ships with Heavy Missiles, HAM's or Rockets. In the first two cases you don't have the explosion velocity to deal damage, in the last case you didn't have the range to hit a nano boat. That left us missile users with the 200 DPS AML with precision lights. Not a perfect fit but 200 DPS is a hell of a lot better than the 0 I was netting with precision heavies My complaint, once I realized inability to hit nano's was a missile only problem, quickly turned to an issue with the missiles themselves, not the nano ship. I simply assumed early on that everyone had the same problem with the whines I was hearing. Then I started moonlighting in amarr ships and found to my surprise pulse lasers hit nanos pretty well - well enough that they don't stick around to see if they can kill my Harbinger. . . Yep, especially when they are WEBBED.
reivol	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:20:00 - [11] Edited by: reivol on 28/07/2008 18:23:22 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. easy enough ? I disagree .... for a ship doing 6km/s at 30km you need a tracking of 0,2 rad/s, if the ship is orbiting at 20km it's 0,3 rad/s A deimos blaster max skilled will need 2 tracking comp to attain such tracking and it will only be able to shoot at 10km so won't hit due to range :p A deimos railgun, even with 3 tracking comp will hardly attain 0,1 rad/s ... Even an autcannon Muninn max skilled will only have 0,38 rad/s of tracking with a max range of 12 km at which he''d need a tracking of 0,46 :/ so it won't hit either .... and even a pulse zealot with 3 tracking comp will only have 0,2 rad/s of tracking at 16km ... Either way, a ship flying at 6km/s is a joke, can't be damaged by missile, can't be hit by guns either Such a ship is not speed tanking, he is avoiding damage. With the intended change it will do 3km/s or 4km/s , that will change a lot of thing, it will now no more avoiding damage but tanking it with it's speed ... (at 3km/s incoming damage is reduced by 50 to 90% depending of what is hitting you) that's a great change !!
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:32:00 - [12] Originally by: reivol Edited by: reivol on 28/07/2008 18:23:22 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. easy enough ? I disagree .... for a ship doing 6km/s at 30km you need a tracking of 0,2 rad/s, if the ship is orbiting at 20km it's 0,3 rad/s A deimos blaster max skilled will need 2 tracking comp to attain such tracking and it will only be able to shoot at 10km so won't hit due to range :p A deimos railgun, even with 3 tracking comp will hardly attain 0,1 rad/s ... Even an autcannon Muninn max skilled will only have 0,38 rad/s of tracking with a max range of 12 km at which he''d need a tracking of 0,46 :/ so it won't hit either .... and even a pulse zealot with 3 tracking comp will only have 0,2 rad/s of tracking at 16km ... Either way, a ship flying at 6km/s is a joke, can't be damaged by missile, can't be hit by guns either Such a ship is not speed tanking, he is avoiding damage. With the intended change it will do 3km/s or 4km/s , that will change a lot of thing, it will now no more avoiding damage but tanking it with it's speed ... (at 3km/s incoming damage is reduced by 50 to 90% depending of what is hitting you) that's a great change !! Which ship does damage while doing 6km/s at 30km?
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:40:00 - [13] Originally by: Foocurr Which ship does damage while doing 6km/s at 30km? Something with missiles, I would guess. Which means they will nerf minmatar some more to stop caldari from killing everyone. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Originally by: Foocurr Which ship does damage while doing 6km/s at 30km? Something with missiles, I would guess. Which means they will nerf minmatar some more to stop caldari from killing everyone. Warp out?
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:43:00 - [15] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer And if people like you had understood the core problem of the nano age was NOT the ability to hit them, then you wouldnt write such nonsense either. And if you didn't have extremely selective memory about what the whining on the forums was mainly about (including the OP of this very thread), you wouldn't have written the above. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:46:00 - [16] Originally by: reivol Edited by: reivol on 28/07/2008 18:23:22 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. easy enough ? I disagree .... for a ship doing 6km/s at 30km you need a tracking of 0,2 rad/s, if the ship is orbiting at 20km it's 0,3 rad/s No. This would be the case if it weren't for the fact that their sig radius was enormous from the mwd running. And if you don't know why that makes a difference, you need to learn how tracking actually works. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
SKINK0429 THE NDRANGHETA Monkey Religion	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: reivol Edited by: reivol on 28/07/2008 18:23:22 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. easy enough ? I disagree .... for a ship doing 6km/s at 30km you need a tracking of 0,2 rad/s, if the ship is orbiting at 20km it's 0,3 rad/s A deimos blaster max skilled will need 2 tracking comp to attain such tracking and it will only be able to shoot at 10km so won't hit due to range :p A deimos railgun, even with 3 tracking comp will hardly attain 0,1 rad/s ... Even an autcannon Muninn max skilled will only have 0,38 rad/s of tracking with a max range of 12 km at which he''d need a tracking of 0,46 :/ so it won't hit either .... and even a pulse zealot with 3 tracking comp will only have 0,2 rad/s of tracking at 16km ... Either way, a ship flying at 6km/s is a joke, can't be damaged by missile, can't be hit by guns either Such a ship is not speed tanking, he is avoiding damage. With the intended change it will do 3km/s or 4km/s , that will change a lot of thing, it will now no more avoiding damage but tanking it with it's speed ... (at 3km/s incoming damage is reduced by 50 to 90% depending of what is hitting you) that's a great change !! Which ship does damage while doing 6km/s at 30km? Ishtar!!!
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:55:00 - [18] All these "lol nano* cry" threads are doing my head in. I only ever flew ceptors and the vaga as fast ships, ships which are meant to be like this, but i dont like this nerf. Long story short, im taking names hunting down the authors. Any 'nano-*' is welcome to join. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:57:00 - [19] Originally by: SKINK0429 Ishtar!!! Warp out?
Ol' Delsai Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:57:00 - [20] Quote: This would be the case if it weren't for the fact that their sig radius was enormous from the mwd running. And if you don't know why that makes a difference, then you need to learn how tracking in Eve actually works. Actually, tracking speed has nothing to do with sig radius, I think that you should read again your fly book :p... No matter you're signature radius, if the gun can't track you due to your speed, they won't hit you ...
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.07.28 19:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Ol' Delsai Actually, tracking speed has nothing to do with sig radius, I think that you should read again your fly book :p... No matter you're signature radius, if the gun can't track you due to your speed, they won't hit you ... FAIL Yes it does, those ship guides are years old. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.28 19:07:00 - [22] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 19:07:08 Originally by: Ol' Delsai Quote: This would be the case if it weren't for the fact that their sig radius was enormous from the mwd running. And if you don't know why that makes a difference, then you need to learn how tracking in Eve actually works. Actually, tracking speed has nothing to do with sig radius, I think that you should read again your fly book :p... No matter you're signature radius, if the gun can't track you due to your speed, they won't hit you ... Go back to the opening post and follow the link to the tracking guide, play around with it for a while and then get back to me on that one. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.28 19:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Maeltstome Originally by: Ol' Delsai Actually, tracking speed has nothing to do with sig radius, I think that you should read again your fly book :p... No matter you're signature radius, if the gun can't track you due to your speed, they won't hit you ... FAIL Yes it does, those ship guides are years old. No, actually the tracking does reflect the fact that increased sig radius helps tracking. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.07.28 19:14:00 - [24] Edited by: Gimpb on 28/07/2008 19:14:37 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. Little hint: I don't think many people whinned about nanos because their turrets couldn't hit them well. ;) They complained because they're near-impossible to tackle without using a dictor, a deployable bubble (gullible target required), or a T2 cruiser. ... but don't misunderstand, I think they're going way overboard with the nerf bat on this one.
RazluP Smegnet Corp	Posted - 2008.07.28 19:25:00 - [25] Wellcome to Nerf Online
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.07.28 19:32:00 - [26] Originally by: RazluP Wellcome to Nerf Online Vellcome...
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.07.28 20:25:00 - [27] Havent tried it against too many nano ships yet since i barely got it, but according to EFT a harbinger can track a nano ship doing 5-6 km/s perfectly fine at every range till 20-25 km (then optimal becomes a problem). This all due to sig radius. I know from experience that hurricane with ACs and barrage can track nanoships, only you are firing deep into fall off which isnt that great. However when i am in a battlecruiser and i see a nano, i just gtfo. When i did faction war i have ignored solo nanos often enough when i was in a battlecruiser. Sure i can shoot them, i probably would win the battle, but i would \NEVER be able to destroy one. They just warp out when they see that there is a small chance they arent going to survive it. And since i dont have a way to prevent them from leaving warpjam range i might as well not start the fight.
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.07.28 20:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: reivol Edited by: reivol on 28/07/2008 18:23:22 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. easy enough ? I disagree .... for a ship doing 6km/s at 30km you need a tracking of 0,2 rad/s, if the ship is orbiting at 20km it's 0,3 rad/s A deimos blaster max skilled will need 2 tracking comp to attain such tracking and it will only be able to shoot at 10km so won't hit due to range :p A deimos railgun, even with 3 tracking comp will hardly attain 0,1 rad/s ... Even an autcannon Muninn max skilled will only have 0,38 rad/s of tracking with a max range of 12 km at which he''d need a tracking of 0,46 :/ so it won't hit either .... and even a pulse zealot with 3 tracking comp will only have 0,2 rad/s of tracking at 16km ... Either way, a ship flying at 6km/s is a joke, can't be damaged by missile, can't be hit by guns either Such a ship is not speed tanking, he is avoiding damage. With the intended change it will do 3km/s or 4km/s , that will change a lot of thing, it will now no more avoiding damage but tanking it with it's speed ... (at 3km/s incoming damage is reduced by 50 to 90% depending of what is hitting you) that's a great change !! Which ship does damage while doing 6km/s at 30km? The nano, officer fit, implanted sacralidge, crow or any other pig you can get to those speeds and chuck missles
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.28 20:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: reivol Edited by: reivol on 28/07/2008 18:23:22 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. easy enough ? I disagree .... for a ship doing 6km/s at 30km you need a tracking of 0,2 rad/s, if the ship is orbiting at 20km it's 0,3 rad/s A deimos blaster max skilled will need 2 tracking comp to attain such tracking and it will only be able to shoot at 10km so won't hit due to range :p A deimos railgun, even with 3 tracking comp will hardly attain 0,1 rad/s ... Even an autcannon Muninn max skilled will only have 0,38 rad/s of tracking with a max range of 12 km at which he''d need a tracking of 0,46 :/ so it won't hit either .... and even a pulse zealot with 3 tracking comp will only have 0,2 rad/s of tracking at 16km ... Either way, a ship flying at 6km/s is a joke, can't be damaged by missile, can't be hit by guns either Such a ship is not speed tanking, he is avoiding damage. With the intended change it will do 3km/s or 4km/s , that will change a lot of thing, it will now no more avoiding damage but tanking it with it's speed ... (at 3km/s incoming damage is reduced by 50 to 90% depending of what is hitting you) that's a great change !! Which ship does damage while doing 6km/s at 30km? The nano, officer fit, implanted sacralidge, crow or any other pig you can get to those speeds and chuck missles ...and not put a point on anything without a faction MWD, so, with all that isk spent he should be pwning your noob ass.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:06:00 - [30] Edited by: Furb Killer on 28/07/2008 21:06:17 If you got officer fitted ship i dont think a faction disruptor is that much of a problem. Anyway, when i buy an estamels invuln field i suppose you agree i should be basicly invunerable since i spent much isk? Edit: And that is an actual invunerability field, when i spent a lot of isk on that i should be really invunerable
Artemis Rose Eleckrostatik	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:37:00 - [31] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Originally by: Foocurr Which ship does damage while doing 6km/s at 30km? Something with missiles, I would guess. Which means they will nerf minmatar some more to stop caldari from killing everyone. No missile boat (aside from pimped out crows) can go that fast and shoot that far. Sacriledges only shoot 20KM and Cerbs can only probably push 5000 m/s at the higher end. The last nano cerb who shot at me did less volley damage than your run of the mill, 2 month old caracal pilot and he claimed his ship goes 4500 m/s. Thats some scary stuff, Caracal DPS Maybe you should know a thing about what you are whining about? __________________________________________________ Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:51:00 - [32] Edited by: Foocurr on 28/07/2008 21:51:53 Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 28/07/2008 21:06:17 If you got officer fitted ship i dont think a faction disruptor is that much of a problem. Anyway, when i buy an estamels invuln field i suppose you agree i should be basicly invunerable since i spent much isk? Edit: And that is an actual invunerability field, when i spent a lot of isk on that i should be really invunerable If you want to get specific... You don't need officer fittings to get those speeds from a sacrilege. You need snakes and polys and faction ODs/MWD. Then, you'll need to use non-bonus heavy launchers to hit from 30km. Add a domi disruptor and you're looking at ~2bil total and you're far from invulnerable. In fact, if you're not used to flying with that much invested, you will have your fair share of 'pucker' moments. fakeedit: at first i thought your estamels invuln argument was really quite ridiculous, but reviewing further, you're right. If you were to attack me in my officer fit faction battleship, on which i fitted multiple officer invulns and an officer tank to match I wouldn't be worried about your silly 350dps heavy missile sacrilege, while I can tank 4x that DPS permanently. I would be worried why I got tackled by you in the first place. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is something that is learned to be avoided and is what most nano-whiners disregard as 'unfair' game mechanics. Once again, this nerf will not change people getting ganked by more experienced players. You'll see. The people who know what they are doing will still find you and kill you. 'Adapting', as you put it.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.09.17 19:54:00 - [33] My brain is always plugged in. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2008.09.17 20:01:00 - [34] You do know that the max you could get with a standard Vagabond setup is about .1-.2 tracking speed? They'd have to slow down to damage you if they're going .3 around you (the max I get is .123 tracking with 180mms, .15 with a logistics tracklinking me).
Rajere No Trademark	Posted - 2008.09.17 20:37:00 - [35] Quote: Which ship does damage while doing 6km/s at 30km? Um all of them? That's sort of the reason for the nano-nerf. The problem with nano-hacs/recons is the ships which are reaching those speeds, were never designed or balanced with those speeds in mind. They can reach those speeds because there are too many things which give speed bonuses and too many bonuses to speed are not stacking penalized. The only nano ship which is ineffective at 30km is the vagabond, which was never the problem. The vagabond was designed and balanced around speed, it's the only ship which can go as fast as it wants, and nobody really cares. It's always been solo friendly and had the ability to gtfo when it looks like the fight was turning south. Personally I don't care if it keeps this ability after the nano-nerf either, that was it's trademark. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.17 20:43:00 - [36] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer My brain is always plugged in. You're going to burn in hell for this bump.
Galan Undris	Posted - 2008.09.17 21:15:00 - [37] Edited by: Galan Undris on 17/09/2008 21:29:10 Originally by: Ol' Delsai Quote: This would be the case if it weren't for the fact that their sig radius was enormous from the mwd running. And if you don't know why that makes a difference, then you need to learn how tracking in Eve actually works. Actually, tracking speed has nothing to do with sig radius, I think that you should read again your fly book :p... No matter you're signature radius, if the gun can't track you due to your speed, they won't hit you ... Actually (and one more actually, to make sure we have enough actualites), you are wrong. Sig radius / sig res has exactly the same effect on tracking as tracking speed / orbital velocity. They are both equal factors in a common product in the hit chance formula. This is reflected perfectly by the calculator in the tracking guide (i.e 0.1 r/s tracking vs 200m target is equivalent to 0.2 r/s tracking vs a 100m target) So once the nano*** turns his MWD on you basicly get a 5.5x boost to tracking. Nano's are are seldom about running away from tracking. An MWD is often not even helping you do so, if you have too poor mass/agility so you can't maintain at least +550% speed at your orbit range you're actually making yourself easier to track. Nanos are just about running away, period.
Rajere No Trademark	Posted - 2008.09.17 21:28:00 - [38] I'd agree with you if the sig penalty from mwding was precisely equivalent to the transversal bonus from mwd speed increases, but it's not. Some people are talking about speed-tanking, and nano***s counter with lol use pulses they track fine at optimal (nevermind how well they don't track targets at different ranges, can't hit even a webbed ship in close orbit). Really it's about both. You can't deal damage to them, and the moment you bring something that can, they can run away. If you bring something which theoretically could keep them from running away (see my post) you can only prevent 1 or 2 from doing so. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2008.09.17 22:25:00 - [39] If you go so fast beyond either the tracking or so far below the signature radius/explosive velocity of an enemies guns (unlikely because you would have to be at 4m sig radius against BS sized guns/missiles) would the chance to hit you becomes 1% and only because of wrecking hits?
Cautet Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.17 23:19:00 - [40] Originally by: reivol Hi guys, that was easy, this won't be easy anymore :) Please have a look at these two guides .... You do remember them, don't you ? - http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_5.asp - http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_3.asp The bad news is that you'll have to learn how to fly a ship and to adjust your transveral velocity, not anymore you'll just have to engage MWD and warp away The good news is that with proper flying you'll still be able to have a huge amount of damage reduction by speed tanking (preliminary test shows a 50 to 90% reduction against the better gunboat or missile boat). Yes I know, that's no more 100% damage reduction but, He ! that's life, it isn't always a piece of cake :p I advise you to go on Sisi and try all of that ... then come back here to cry The people who are beating you with nanos will beat you without nanos. You won't understand why so you will ask for something else to be nerfed (my guess is falcons). But still it won't help you. It doesn't matter if nanos are overpowered or not (I don't think they are). What does matter is that you didn't adapt to them. You have to stop this self-defeating attitude because it does not help you.
Cautet Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.17 23:23:00 - [41] Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 28/07/2008 21:06:17 Edit: And that is an actual invunerability field, when i spent a lot of isk on that i should be really invunerable Damm right! Invulnerability fields are scam. They don't make you invulnerable at all.
Ethen Bejorn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.09.17 23:28:00 - [42] Originally by: reivol easy enough ? I disagree .... for a ship doing 6km/s at 30km you need a tracking of 0,2 rad/s, if the ship is orbiting at 20km it's 0,3 rad/s A deimos blaster max skilled will need 2 tracking comp to attain such tracking and it will only be able to shoot at 10km so won't hit due to range :p A deimos railgun, even with 3 tracking comp will hardly attain 0,1 rad/s ... Even an autcannon Muninn max skilled will only have 0,38 rad/s of tracking with a max range of 12 km at which he''d need a tracking of 0,46 :/ so it won't hit either .... and even a pulse zealot with 3 tracking comp will only have 0,2 rad/s of tracking at 16km ... Either way, a ship flying at 6km/s is a joke, can't be damaged by missile, can't be hit by guns either Such a ship is not speed tanking, he is avoiding damage. With the intended change it will do 3km/s or 4km/s , that will change a lot of thing, it will now no more avoiding damage but tanking it with it's speed ... (at 3km/s incoming damage is reduced by 50 to 90% depending of what is hitting you) that's a great change !! /signed
Rajere No Trademark	Posted - 2008.09.18 00:05:00 - [43] Quote: The people who are beating you with nanos will beat you without nanos. You won't understand why so you will ask for something else to be nerfed (my guess is falcons). But still it won't help you. It doesn't matter if nanos are overpowered or not (I don't think they are). What does matter is that you didn't adapt to them. You have to stop this self-defeating attitude because it does not help you. nom nom nom your tears are so delicious. To correct your statement for us skilled players with a clue on how to play the game: The people who would try to fight us and then run away because they were nano'd will sit around and QQ about their god-mode button being taken way. They'll figure out a new way to reduce their risk when fighting carebears and the rest of the unwashed masses who play this game (90% of eve), and they'll still win, but they won't be able to disengage at will like they can today. Against the rest of us (10%) with a clue, they will try and fight us and they will probably lose (because 90% of nano***s are unskilled newbs who have no clue how to play themselves), but they will no longer come and bother us and smacktalk in local as they're fleeing. If you do not think nanoing is overpowered, do me a favor and pod yourself IRL. You'd have to be allergic to logic to think that. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.09.18 00:37:00 - [44] Didn't they retract the nerf to think of something different? Is it back again? Same changes and all? (My poor Prowler!) But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Katy Karkinoff Minmatar Psycho Chicks	Posted - 2008.09.18 01:39:00 - [45] Originally by: reivol Edited by: reivol on 28/07/2008 18:23:22 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. easy enough ? I disagree .... for a ship doing 6km/s at 30km you need a tracking of 0,2 rad/s, if the ship is orbiting at 20km it's 0,3 rad/s A deimos blaster max skilled will need 2 tracking comp to attain such tracking and it will only be able to shoot at 10km so won't hit due to range :p A deimos railgun, even with 3 tracking comp will hardly attain 0,1 rad/s ... Even an autcannon Muninn max skilled will only have 0,38 rad/s of tracking with a max range of 12 km at which he''d need a tracking of 0,46 :/ so it won't hit either .... and even a pulse zealot with 3 tracking comp will only have 0,2 rad/s of tracking at 16km ... Either way, a ship flying at 6km/s is a joke, can't be damaged by missile, can't be hit by guns either Such a ship is not speed tanking, he is avoiding damage. With the intended change it will do 3km/s or 4km/s , that will change a lot of thing, it will now no more avoiding damage but tanking it with it's speed ... (at 3km/s incoming damage is reduced by 50 to 90% depending of what is hitting you) that's a great change !! this only holds true if you're a moron and don't move. If you pilot your ship you can help mitigate transversal. Kthx bai.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.18 02:06:00 - [46] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/09/2008 02:07:54 Originally by: Katy Karkinoff this only holds true if you're a moron and don't move. If you pilot your ship you can help mitigate transversal. Kthx bai. Actually it isn't even true in the first place. At 15km, you track a MWD-ing LSE-d cruiser hull (say, Vagabond) going 10km/s with a gun having 0.15 rad/sec tracking with 83% accuracy. At 20km, with 90% accuracy. Using, for instance, 220mm AC IIs with Barrage loaded, you get 0.11 tracking which gives you about 70% at 15km and 83% at 20km (well, admittedly you'll miss a bit due to falloff, but you can do a much better job with a pulse ship). And that is assuming the target is orbiting at 10km/s. People need to learn about sig radius and its effect on tracking, really Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Rhaegor Stormborn Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.09.18 02:57:00 - [47] CCP was right the ludacris speeds are broken and need to be nerfed due the tracking formulas, but the way they were going about it was just too much. I still can't wait for them to nerf nanos to something reasonable, but not nerfed to uselessness.
Fung Pi Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.09.18 04:17:00 - [48] Edited by: Fung Pi on 18/09/2008 04:17:48 ATTN: All Nano pilots out there => plug in your brains back in => Fly Falcons
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.09.18 05:00:00 - [49] Edited by: Aleus Stygian on 18/09/2008 05:03:21 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer My brain is always plugged in. Evibump'dly not. Originally by: Fung Pi Edited by: Fung Pi on 18/09/2008 04:17:48 ATTN: All Nano pilots out there => plug in your brains back in => Fly Falcons
Rob Z0mbie	Posted - 2008.09.18 05:36:00 - [50] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: reivol Edited by: reivol on 28/07/2008 18:23:22 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 28/07/2008 16:43:49 Actaully, if the people who whined about fast ships had used the tracking guide they wouldn't have whined to begin with because they would have known that it was easy enough to track the ships in question in any turret-based cruiser/battlecruiser (tech 1 or tech 2) if you fitted for it. easy enough ? I disagree .... for a ship doing 6km/s at 30km you need a tracking of 0,2 rad/s, if the ship is orbiting at 20km it's 0,3 rad/s A deimos blaster max skilled will need 2 tracking comp to attain such tracking and it will only be able to shoot at 10km so won't hit due to range :p A deimos railgun, even with 3 tracking comp will hardly attain 0,1 rad/s ... Even an autcannon Muninn max skilled will only have 0,38 rad/s of tracking with a max range of 12 km at which he''d need a tracking of 0,46 :/ so it won't hit either .... and even a pulse zealot with 3 tracking comp will only have 0,2 rad/s of tracking at 16km ... Either way, a ship flying at 6km/s is a joke, can't be damaged by missile, can't be hit by guns either Such a ship is not speed tanking, he is avoiding damage. With the intended change it will do 3km/s or 4km/s , that will change a lot of thing, it will now no more avoiding damage but tanking it with it's speed ... (at 3km/s incoming damage is reduced by 50 to 90% depending of what is hitting you) that's a great change !! Which ship does damage while doing 6km/s at 30km? ishtar? curse? crow? amarr-missile-hac ? ever saw them 5kms ravens? 6kms cnrs too, pvping. expensive fits and well done to them. oh and rapiers ad huginns with thier drones. \(o.0)/
Satura Most Wanted INC	Posted - 2008.09.18 05:37:00 - [51] Originally by: Foocurr You'll still die.
Cautet Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.18 08:12:00 - [52] Originally by: Rajere Quote: The people who are beating you with nanos will beat you without nanos. You won't understand why so you will ask for something else to be nerfed (my guess is falcons). But still it won't help you. It doesn't matter if nanos are overpowered or not (I don't think they are). What does matter is that you didn't adapt to them. You have to stop this self-defeating attitude because it does not help you. nom nom nom your tears are so delicious. To correct your statement for us skilled players with a clue on how to play the game: The people who would try to fight us and then run away because they were nano'd will sit around and QQ about their god-mode button being taken way. They'll figure out a new way to reduce their risk when fighting carebears and the rest of the unwashed masses who play this game (90% of eve), and they'll still win, but they won't be able to disengage at will like they can today. Against the rest of us (10%) with a clue, they will try and fight us and they will probably lose (because 90% of nano***s are unskilled newbs who have no clue how to play themselves), but they will no longer come and bother us and smacktalk in local as they're fleeing. If you do not think nanoing is overpowered, do me a favor and pod yourself IRL. You'd have to be allergic to logic to think that. Wow, I should comit suicide because I don't have any problems fighting nanos and because you get emorage about a computer game? Nice. You just carry on crying those bitter salty tears, I am sure mummy will come and make it all better. Don't bother to learn how to get better, just hold that hate inside you and let it build up.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.09.18 08:40:00 - [53] Originally by: Cautet The people who are beating you with nanos will beat you without nanos. Prolly but now atleast they will die and lose ships if they make mistakes. Sorry but nano was easy mode eve. Everyone knows that. And yeah falcons need a nerf too. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
Yuri Vladomirovic	Posted - 2008.09.18 09:02:00 - [54] Nano nerf = good HACs becoming as useless as AFs = bad Checked on test server, what will happen to HACs = not Read sheit loads of whines about how much my beloved Curse and Ishtar will be nerfed = yes Hope there will be a sollution that will keep them still useful = Priceless !!!
BuckStrider Fleem Co	Posted - 2008.09.18 13:09:00 - [55] My God!....Doesn't anyone know how to use frickin Recon ships? 3 of the 4 races are very effective on them. Learn to fly, dont cry and whine
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.09.18 15:16:00 - [56] Originally by: reivol Hi guys, that was easy, this won't be easy anymore :) Please have a look at these two guides .... You do remember them, don't you ? - http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_5.asp - http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_3.asp The bad news is that you'll have to learn how to fly a ship and to adjust your transveral velocity, not anymore you'll just have to engage MWD and warp away No, because we'll just be flying Drakes like everyone else. How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming

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