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Concept: NPC traffic

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Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:49:00 - [1] Basically, I'm thinking about NPC's who travel between systems, go through gates, and even mine in belts and dock at stations. These include trade ships, NPC corporation 'security' and industrialists. Heard a lot of responses about bringing the rewards up in low sec to 'drive' the high-sec players into into the systems. But as one player noted, carebears kill weak rats and militants, and pirates prey on defensless miners and missioners. Obviously, that's a gross generalization. BUT, if a 'pirate' could attack an empire convoy, could prey on an NPC corporations low-sec mining team, could even camp gate traffic as 'couriers' and security teams traveled through? The NPC's would be tougher because they work in low-sec, and wouldn't fit the standard 'rat' mindset. Convoy haulers may have stab builds. Couriers may be flying interceptors with MWD's. Security sweeps would be irregular and not respond like CONCORD, thus engaged or run from as the pirates see fit. Basically, put the missing NPC's in low-sec. Sec hits still happen, though they are MUCH smaller. Standings hits may come about with the corporation your preying on. Bah, just an idea. It doesn't substitute for player ganks, but it may make a general gate camp more profitable if they more targets to camp, without trying to force a players hand. And hell, it may actually draw more players from high-sec, if the rewards for being a dastardly deviant are high enough. Genesis Project
Ur235 Dawn of Fire Pure.	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:56:00 - [2] If you want stuff like that play x3 or x2. NPC traffic simply wouldnt work in eve
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:58:00 - [3] Originally by: Ur235 If you want stuff like that play x3 or x2. NPC traffic simply wouldnt work in eve In-box thinking. It would work, it could work, and it most likely would work. Transports, escorts, etc. Quite easily too. Different matter if CCP wants to add more NPCs to a player driven economy. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:00:00 - [4] Originally by: Ruze Basically, I'm thinking about NPC's who travel between systems, go through gates, and even mine in belts and dock at stations. These include trade ships, NPC corporation 'security' and industrialists. Heard a lot of responses about bringing the rewards up in low sec to 'drive' the high-sec players into into the systems. But as one player noted, carebears kill weak rats and militants, and pirates prey on defensless miners and missioners. Obviously, that's a gross generalization. BUT, if a 'pirate' could attack an empire convoy, could prey on an NPC corporations low-sec mining team, could even camp gate traffic as 'couriers' and security teams traveled through? The NPC's would be tougher because they work in low-sec, and wouldn't fit the standard 'rat' mindset. Convoy haulers may have stab builds. Couriers may be flying interceptors with MWD's. Security sweeps would be irregular and not respond like CONCORD, thus engaged or run from as the pirates see fit. Basically, put the missing NPC's in low-sec. Sec hits still happen, though they are MUCH smaller. Standings hits may come about with the corporation your preying on. Bah, just an idea. It doesn't substitute for player ganks, but it may make a general gate camp more profitable if they more targets to camp, without trying to force a players hand. And hell, it may actually draw more players from high-sec, if the rewards for being a dastardly deviant are high enough. I'd support this idea more but I'm pretty sure it'd just cause more lag. Although the mechanic is already there with Couriers etc. Interesting idea, belongs in Feature Suggestion.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:00:00 - [5] Too much added weight to the nodes, probably. There wouldn't be anything wrong with it as eye candy in systems, but if it wasn't serving any vital purpose the extra lag wouldn't be worth it.
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:01:00 - [6] it would be nice just to have NPC traffic to make the universe seem busier and alive obviously not having ships like ours as they arnt capsuleers but civilian transports or something would be nice even just to look at just to show that it not just us there Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
ApaKaka Lone Starr Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:03:00 - [7] NPC convoys already do that, in-system.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:04:00 - [8] I'd like it. I'd like both sides of the coins actually, NPC traffic for pirates to prey on, and NPC fleets to prey on the pirates. Sufficient balancing would ensure that neither was particularly bothersome. There are technical questions of lag and so on, but that's something for the devs to do. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
justsometrader	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:06:00 - [9] yeah we definatly need more lag
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:07:00 - [10] Murdering NPC's just hasn't got the same appeal as murdering the players who already perform those tasks. What does this add? You can already kill NPC haulers, but it doesn't seem like the most popular occupation in Eve, why would this be diferent? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:11:00 - [11] ermm ill get back to you when i find the awnser to your question O_O never thought of that Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 29/07/2008 17:07:27 Murdering NPC's just hasn't got the same appeal as murdering the players who already perform those tasks. What does this add? You can already kill NPC haulers, but it doesn't seem like the most popular occupation in Eve, why would this be different? True, I murder enough Macro/farmer haulers as it is :( Basically the same thing
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:22:00 - [13] I guess that in a perfect game, there would be very little difference between most NPC's and players, at least in outward identification. If you saw a battlecruiser, you wouldn't be able to instantly discern if it was player or npc run, and attacking it would not prove that out either, as you might end up picking a fight with a weak NPC ai, or a very strong one. Controlled randomness. Yes, we have 'convoys' that in no way look or act like player convoys. There isn't NPC gate traffic. There are NPC miners. If your reason for being a pirate is criminal activity, the only option you have is killing players. There is no other way for you to make money and still live out the role you want to play. But there's a primitive difference between a pirate and a griefer. One is as much a roleplayer as one who enjoys PvP. Griefers, however, aren't in low-sec for profit or roleplay. They are there to cause other players pain and misery. And as we teach new players NOT to risk going into low-sec, griefers lose their level of enjoyment. More and more, low-sec activity lessens. Actual pirates are left with little to do, but griefers adapt and move into high-sec. I'm not proposing millions of ships per system. I think maybe a ship or two through a gate every few minutes would be interesting. The real challenge is updating AI and tactics so that different NPC's respond with interest and challenge to a pirate attack. Miners calling in assistance. Haulers being stab'd or tanked, or both. Couriers trying their hardest to get away. Even fight-or-flight patterns in AI, so that you can get a good chase going. And in the very least, this would be like 'ratting' for gate campers who are working during off hours. Genesis Project
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:27:00 - [14] By the way, more than once I've run into rats 'camping' a gate, especially in 0.0. What's wrong with making NPC rats more like player pirates, and NPC carebears more like player carebears? And as far as lag goes, there are many, many agent 'hubs' where missions are being run 23/7. Missions with up to 40 rats or more, constantly being spawned and destroyed, or even just left in space. I don't know if I honestly believed that NPC 'traffic' would have any effect at all on server load. Course, I wouldn't want to see any of them in Jita, but the same goes for missions there, too. Genesis Project
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Ruze By the way, more than once I've run into rats 'camping' a gate, especially in 0.0. What's wrong with making NPC rats more like player pirates, and NPC carebears more like player carebears? I still don't see what the point would be? If you do all that, why bother with other players at all? Eve rightly focuses on player interaction, rather than being a game of NPC questing with built in chat like so many other MMOGs. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Ruze By the way, more than once I've run into rats 'camping' a gate, especially in 0.0. What's wrong with making NPC rats more like player pirates, and NPC carebears more like player carebears? I still don't see what the point would be? If you do all that, why bother with other players at all? Eve rightly focuses on player interaction, rather than being a game of NPC questing with built in chat like so many other MMOGs. Because the simple fact of the matter is that you can't force player interaction. CCP tries very hard, sticking with many bottlenecks and few stations. They try to enforce camps. I've seen many ideas and calls to decrease high-sec payout, increase low sec payout. Remove asteroids from high-sec. So many want to FORCE players who are content with playing in only a small section of EvE, into the rest. But even your own comments just prove that my personal reasonings for staying primarily in high-sec. You want more player interaction? Take out the players who get a kick out of ganking and griefing. Then lots of high-sec players would swoop into low-sec, because what you would have left are mostly part-time pirates and a lot of 0.0 folks. EvE has a PvP undertone built on an NPC storyline and support network. The majority of the ships, stations, worlds and interactions in EvE are behind the scenes NPC events. If it was a pure PvP game like so many pretend to be, there would be no high sec, there would be no Empires, there would be no backstory, there would be nothing at all that existed that wasn't gathered, built and run by players. Genesis Project
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:44:00 - [17] Edited by: Matalino on 29/07/2008 17:47:27 Originally by: ApaKaka NPC convoys already do that, in-system. This! Aside from NPC miners we already have that, it just that everyone ignors them. Originally by: Ruze By the way, more than once I've run into rats 'camping' a gate, especially in 0.0. What's wrong with making NPC rats more like player pirates, and NPC carebears more like player carebears? You mean like having NPC warp away in terror when you start stomping on them?
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:45:00 - [18] Originally by: justsometrader yeah we definatly need more lag Do you really think these will cause extra lag?
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:49:00 - [19] I guess my biggest argument is that, at one point in time, EvE was a hardcore and violent game where PvP was king. And really, I enjoy PvP, but I didn't enjoy EvE then. And as EvE grows, it has stretched more and more towards NPC and player interactions. Faction Warfare means the empires are no longer static hosts. Thousands of missions have been added. Rats populate hundreds of belts. Chronicles keep the storyline up to date and active. Complexes have been created, new and more difficult mission styles are already reality. And yet, there is no real new additions to those who play EvE from a criminal element. If anything, all these great and new additions have taken away the only thing they could shoot at. As more players come into EvE, many of them prefering a game where they work for the Empires (fighting players in FW or NPC's in missions)? As 0.0 becomes more and more the territory of super alliances that don't change and hold all the cards? Yeah. Empire couriers and haulers moving in low-sec systems doesn't sound like it's going to break the bank, only annoy the paranoid who only want to grief. Genesis Project
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:50:00 - [20] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 29/07/2008 17:50:30 Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Originally by: justsometrader yeah we definatly need more lag Do you really think these will cause extra lag? More stuff on the grid means reduced frame rates. It's why I zoom all the way out in Level 4's.
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:53:00 - [21] wait you zoom out for level 4's i never had to and running a standard PC the trick is not to mission run in dodixie or motsu try jel for gallente that 10 million isk please Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 29/07/2008 17:50:30 Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Originally by: justsometrader yeah we definatly need more lag Do you really think these will cause extra lag? More stuff on the grid means reduced frame rates. It's why I zoom all the way out in Level 4's. That has more to do with your own client and the ISP. Server load from this idea would be minuscule at worst. Genesis Project
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:32:00 - [23] fibre optic is a suggestion Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:35:00 - [24] yeah, it wouldnt add much load.... most of it is gfx being loaded... and yeah, I dont think the traffic would be anywhere near lvl 4 mish... unless is a friggin huge convoy... Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:36:00 - [25] Originally by: Ruze EvE has a PvP undertone built on an NPC storyline and support network. Ah, now I see where you are going wrong. All that storyline and stuff .. it's just fluff mate. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Lillian D'Florite	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Ruze EvE has a PvP undertone built on an NPC storyline and support network. Ah, now I see where you are going wrong. All that storyline and stuff .. it's just fluff mate. ..... and hows what you said different than what he said?... is fluff... but fluff that makes eve feel ... like a sandbox? =P that there are background stuff going on... and yeah.... not saying is not needed, but it would add immersion factor...(for the people who are after .....errr you know... a virtual world instead of just pew pew pew everything thats not blue.... oh wait!!!! nvm... )
Shiho Weitong Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Ruze EvE has a PvP undertone built on an NPC storyline and support network. Ah, now I see where you are going wrong. All that storyline and stuff .. it's just fluff mate. And that fluff is what makes the game so fantastic and immersive. If eve had just been another run of the mill space combat simulator, I for one wouldn't have been here, and i suspect that goes for a lot of other players. Npc's with a modi****of AI would be nice. ----------------------- Why is it called common sense, when it's clearly very rare. I had a mind once, but alas, I seem to have forgotten where I left it.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:49:00 - [28] No, what makes Eve great is that it is player driven. Background fluff is all fine an dandy, and then the consequuences of it can be seen ingame it is pretty cool. I like the background stuff. I like the Eve universe. However, it isn't the focus of the game. Eve was built to be a player driven game, and adding NPC's to simulate players isn't really in keeping with that. There may have been a half decent arguement for it soon after release when the server population was lucky to hit 5k, but now? No. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:58:00 - [29] i always thought it'd be cool, assuming it could be done in a minimal lag fashion. especially if you could hire them to work for you, harvest moon style. - -
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:00:00 - [30] No npc entities masquerading as players plz kkthnxbuhbye. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan

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