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Random collection of thoughts- buff Minmatar BS / ECCM change etc.

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Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.30 11:18:00 - [1] Minmatar BS need to have way less mass. Period. I don't like any ships to be useless, regardless of race (heck, I fly all four). The Min BS need to be buffed. Particularly the Tempest. Typhoon needs it's shield/armor HP flipped. Come on Devs, this has been an issue for YEARS. It's a simple database edit. Fix it!!! Phoon has 8 highs, 4 gun/4 launcher slots. Why not give it 6 gun slots and 6 launcher slots? That way you could go all guns or all launchers and never know what you're getting when you go up against a Phoon. You're giving up using an entire ship bonus when you only go with one weapon system over another. IMO it's completely fair to make it 6/6. If you want max firepower out of it you still have the same number of weapons. Now you can just weight it further towards guns or missiles. Sensor boosters and ECCM: why not just add in an ECCM script to sensor boosters? +100% sensor strength. Lock time, lock range or ECCM. And you could still keep dedicated ECCM mods, and they'd have +200% sensor strength. ECCM needs a huge buff. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Lt Angus Caldari Lt Angus Corp	Posted - 2008.07.30 11:55:00 - [2] Me like Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.07.30 14:16:00 - [3] /signed on all issues as for typhoon it's currently a split (triple actually) weapon ship which means you are meant to use both sets of weapons at the same times. The problem with these sort of ships is that they are weaker than an all 1 weapon type ship due to only 1 bonus and lack of damage mods to fit. The changes you propose would allow it to do what it can now but also allow it be a truly versatile ship (the reason I love the phoon).
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.07.30 14:27:00 - [4] Good suggestions.
Amandin Adouin	Posted - 2008.07.30 14:31:00 - [5] I agree - good suggestions. Thanks
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.07.30 14:35:00 - [6] Yes, lets add a module that fits all your needs, so you dont have to think about fitting sensorbooster or ECCM. This way you can get a cookie cutter setup that work in almost all encounters \o/. At the same time, give me hardeners with scripts so you can change resist types, or jammers with scripts so you can change racial type, and even fit damp scripts in it \o/ YES!!
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.07.30 15:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Typhado3 /signed on all issues as for typhoon it's currently a split (triple actually) weapon ship which means you are meant to use both sets of weapons at the same times. The problem with these sort of ships is that they are weaker than an all 1 weapon type ship due to only 1 bonus and lack of damage mods to fit. The changes you propose would allow it to do what it can now but also allow it be a truly versatile ship (the reason I love the phoon). while I love the idea of 6/6 it's funny because you would other than weapon upgrades be wasting the bonus just as much :P but yeah the thyphoon is great because you'll fight a ship say a unlucky pligrim or curse, and they will be tanking exp, so you change to termal. Or they have 3 TDs on you and your guns can't hit shit, but your 4 missles and and your drones can still hit. on the other hands if defenders ever got boosted then your guns would still hit while your missles get shot down. In others words the thyphoon is impossible to fit against 100% something it has will always be hitting you, how awesome is that. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Ravil Thon	Posted - 2008.07.30 15:02:00 - [8] I agree with most of the above. I have concerns though that mentioning the phoon will get the last decent matari ship somehow nerfed to pieces.
Linas IV	Posted - 2008.07.30 17:15:00 - [9] A bunch of nice ideas here! i hope a Dev reads it.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.07.30 17:21:00 - [10] Bump because the man speaks the truth.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:16:00 - [11] Originally by: TZeer Yes, lets add a module that fits all your needs, so you dont have to think about fitting sensorbooster or ECCM. This way you can get a cookie cutter setup that work in almost all encounters \o/. At the same time, give me hardeners with scripts so you can change resist types, or jammers with scripts so you can change racial type, and even fit damp scripts in it \o/ YES!! Are you just ignoring the part where I said buff regular ECCM to 200% and allow sensor boosters to be used as a 'half strength' 100% ECCM? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:27:00 - [12] If you made it 6/6 a typhoon could outdamage a torp raven by quite a large margin (same damage bonus and launcher number but +50m3 bandwidth, and another 2 bonused turrets potentially). Perhaps 5/5? I agree with HP change, and the mass stuff is stupid atm. I agree with ECCM boost too, it is a better alternative than nerfing falcons/ecm in general, as it allows you to fit for some resistance to them (assuming you do actually choose what ship/fit to fly due to prevailing tactical conditions, and aren't just an OMG I HAVE 10 PEOPLE YOU HAVE 5 THEREFORE I WIN pillock), or to dedicate your fit for near complete resistance to them. It also punishes those who think they don't need to change loadout based on experience and so on.
August Guns Minmatar Infinite ISK	Posted - 2008.07.31 01:31:00 - [13] Originally by: TZeer Yes, lets add a module that fits all your needs, so you dont have to think about fitting sensorbooster or ECCM. This way you can get a cookie cutter setup that work in almost all encounters \o/. At the same time, give me hardeners with scripts so you can change resist types, or jammers with scripts so you can change racial type, and even fit damp scripts in it \o/ YES!! I'll reiterate what TZeer said, minus the sarcasm. Don't be so in love with scripts that you take bonuses from one set of modules and bring them to others; the OP's idea isn't to really boost ECCM, but boost sensor boosters. No matter what the percentage of sensor strength boost is, ECCM will only be used in very specialized circumstances and not in common PVP. This is because ECCM will only ever boost one statistic that is defensive in nature; if you do not encounter ECM then you've wasted a midlot. Rather than include a script for sensor boosters, I would rather have ECCM boosted to include a resistance to other forms of EWAR: - bonus to sensor strength, as exists now - resistance to effects of sensor damps - resistance to effects of target painters - resistance to effects of turret disruptors Those four effects would, in my opinion, make ECCM appealing enough to have pilots consider the inclusion of a true ECCM module. I will leave it up to others to debate the merits of including other resistances (like webs, neutralizers, etc.) August Guns
Pattern Clarc Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.31 01:35:00 - [14] Bellum Eternus please run for CSM next time around.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.07.31 01:42:00 - [15] Originally by: August Guns Rather than include a script for sensor boosters, I would rather have ECCM boosted to include a resistance to other forms of EWAR: - bonus to sensor strength, as exists now - resistance to effects of sensor damps - resistance to effects of target painters - resistance to effects of turret disruptors Wow, thats actually a pretty nice idea. I like it.
Pattern Clarc Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.31 02:17:00 - [16] After burners need to accelerate you to max speed much quicker than now to make them more viable. Utility midslot modules need to be made more appealing - there needs to be more mid slot competition and tweaks to a few close range ships left in the mud.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.31 03:52:00 - [17] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Bellum Eternus please run for CSM next time around. Dood, I would have the first time, but like most idiot Americans, I didn't have my passport ready in time lol. But thanks for the support! Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tixxie Lix Outer Heaven	Posted - 2008.07.31 04:03:00 - [18] I wholeheartedly agree with the Typhoon fix. Not completely sure about your ECCM/Sensor Booster solution though. I do agree ECCM is not effective enough in most situations and needs a small boost. My Falcon can still jam ships pretty easily that have an ECCM and now that speed has become an issue I can spend even more time afk jamming in an aligned Falcon lol. Sure it's sounds nice but that's going to be really boring. I like August's idea a lot though.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.31 04:11:00 - [19] Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 31/07/2008 04:13:35 Originally by: August Guns Originally by: TZeer Yes, lets add a module that fits all your needs, so you dont have to think about fitting sensorbooster or ECCM. This way you can get a cookie cutter setup that work in almost all encounters \o/. At the same time, give me hardeners with scripts so you can change resist types, or jammers with scripts so you can change racial type, and even fit damp scripts in it \o/ YES!! I'll reiterate what TZeer said, minus the sarcasm. Don't be so in love with scripts that you take bonuses from one set of modules and bring them to others; the OP's idea isn't to really boost ECCM, but boost sensor boosters. No matter what the percentage of sensor strength boost is, ECCM will only be used in very specialized circumstances and not in common PVP. This is because ECCM will only ever boost one statistic that is defensive in nature; if you do not encounter ECM then you've wasted a midlot. Rather than include a script for sensor boosters, I would rather have ECCM boosted to include a resistance to other forms of EWAR: - bonus to sensor strength, as exists now - resistance to effects of sensor damps - resistance to effects of target painters - resistance to effects of turret disruptors Those four effects would, in my opinion, make ECCM appealing enough to have pilots consider the inclusion of a true ECCM module. I will leave it up to others to debate the merits of including other resistances (like webs, neutralizers, etc.) ECCM with scripts to reduce damp effects? WTF are sensor boosters for? Talk about not taking your own advice... FFS. People are whining about dual-use Sensor Boosters (by my suggesting that they can be scripted to ECCM) and yet Sensor Boosters ARE dual use already: they defend you against sensor damps, which is a form of EW. The only people who have issues with this concept are the noob Falcon pilots that are worried that their pet ship might see a few more ECCM equipped targets. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.07.31 04:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Bellum Eternus ECCM with scripts to reduce damp effects? WTF are sensor boosters for? Talk about not taking your own advice... Sensor boosters differ a bit, since you benefit if you're not damped, while his ECCM would only help you if someone actually uses ewar on you.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.31 04:33:00 - [21] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 31/07/2008 04:18:05 Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 31/07/2008 04:16:21 Originally by: Bellum Eternus ECCM with scripts to reduce damp effects? WTF are sensor boosters for? Talk about not taking your own advice... Sensor boosters differ a bit, since you benefit if you're not damped, while his ECCM would only help you if someone actually uses ewar on you. I think the intention is to keep ECCM a defensive only module, while SBs can be considered offensive modules. Would be a bit too powerful if you can enjoy your extended lockrange or resolution, and just switch to ECCM function if it becomes necessary. I think I wasn't being completely clear. Right now there are all kinds of modules that provide dual use capability: Sensor boosters protect against Damps, and when not doing that, they are very useful. Tracking Computers and Tracking Enhancers protect against TDs. When not doing that, they do something useful. ECCM doesn't do anything when it's not doing it's job, and even then it's crap at doing it's intended job. So I'm proposing that Sensor boosters get a +100% sensor strength script to add that functionality into an already popular module, and true ECCM modules be buffed even more than that, so that they actually work half the time. Damps are useless the majority of the time not only because of their poor initial performance but also because Sensor Boosters are very prolific and popular. To summarise: there isn't enough effective ECCM in the game. There needs to be tons more of it. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.07.31 04:44:00 - [22] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 31/07/2008 04:45:34 Ah ok, I get you now. Still the thing is, as you said, SBs are already a very popular module in pvp, it might be just a tad bit too much to hand another joker card so to speak. I'd really prefer the variant the other guy posted, but without scripts, give ECCM all effects at the same time, make them the anti-ewar module the name already suggests. TDs and stuff are listed under electronic countermeasures, so it would be more consistent that way. TCs, TEs and SBs on the other hand are listed under weapon upgrades / sensor upgrades, and btw TC/TE still do nothing for AC users if you are optimal-range disrupted.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.31 08:07:00 - [23] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 31/07/2008 04:45:34 Ah ok, I get you now. Still the thing is, as you said, SBs are already a very popular module in pvp, it might be just a tad bit too much to hand another joker card so to speak. I'd really prefer the variant the other guy posted, but without scripts, give ECCM all effects at the same time, make them the anti-ewar module the name already suggests. TDs and stuff are listed under electronic countermeasures, so it would be more consistent that way. TCs, TEs and SBs on the other hand are listed under weapon upgrades / sensor upgrades, and btw TC/TE still do nothing for AC users if you are optimal-range disrupted. Uhh, AC users opt range disrupted? You mean falloff disrupted? TBH I think there should be a mod for boosting falloff just like a TE, only for falloff only. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.07.31 08:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Uhh, AC users opt range disrupted? You mean falloff disrupted? TBH I think there should be a mod for boosting falloff just like a TE, only for falloff only. Yes, the script is called 'optimal range disruption', but thats what I meant. I'd like to have TCs affect falloff the same way like they affect optimal, since its the counter module for a TD, but really anything to defend against TD would be more than welcome.
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:08:00 - [25] also, give artilery (or just the tempest) a 100% damage bonus... BUT! increase its rate of fire so it shoots twice as slow... this will at least give it its alpha strike back (maybe not 100%, but you get my point) also, give the claw 4 guns.. wolf 5. jaguar 4. stiletto 3. and so on.... WE DONT WANT ONE MISSILE _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:14:00 - [26] Edited by: Pohbis on 31/07/2008 11:15:30 I'd like to support this, then we can finally make all other EW chance-based like jamming, and have the other EW counters render the EW 100% useless when it misses
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Pohbis Edited by: Pohbis on 31/07/2008 11:15:30 I'd like to support this, then we can finally make all other EW chance-based like jamming, and have the other EW counters render the EW 100% useless when it misses I was trying to follow along with your post but then I glanced over and saw that you are Caldari. They hand out stupid pills when people pick Caldari as a race? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:57:00 - [28] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 31/07/2008 11:57:42 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 31/07/2008 11:57:11 Originally by: Pohbis Edited by: Pohbis on 31/07/2008 11:15:30 I'd like to support this, then we can finally make all other EW chance-based like jamming, and have the other EW counters render the EW 100% useless when it misses Want to trade certainly 100% reliable target painter on a bellicose for chance-based ECM of a simple blackbird? Seriously now, going 'waaah chance-based' when talking about ECM is silly. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.07.31 12:22:00 - [29] Originally by: Pohbis Edited by: Pohbis on 31/07/2008 11:15:30 I'd like to support this, then we can finally make all other EW chance-based like jamming, and have the other EW counters render the EW 100% useless when it misses To complete this, you would also need to make ECM 90% useless when it HITS!
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.07.31 12:23:00 - [30] Originally by: Cpt Branko Want to trade certainly 100% reliable target painter on a bellicose for chance-based ECM of a simple blackbird? Seriously now, going 'waaah chance-based' when talking about ECM is silly. Yes, comparing ECM to TP isn't silly. I can't do much about the hit/miss mechanic of ECM, but I do know that if damps,, neuts/nos, webs, scrams and TD suddenly became chance-based people wouldn't think that was funny.

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