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7317	Posted - 2008.07.30 19:58:00 - [1] Ok. I began EVE with my one and only Minmatar character. Starting with the classic Rifter, then Rupture and finally Hurricane. Now that i can fit a Hurricane fully T2, i began searching for a new minmatar ship to train for. Unfortunately i found out some disturbing facts: Go for battleships! - Large Projectiles suck Go for HACs. Vagabond is cool afterall right? - Nay! All nano ships will be nerfed to hell in the next patch Be a stealthy guy, use a recon ship; - Oh, i forgot, statis webifiers are gonna get nerfed too. So, after analyzing all the changes with the upcoming patch, i could only find "one" (1) Minmatar ship efficient enough to use. The Rifter and it's variants. Thats all. I'll start training Gallente ships tomorrow
Gort Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:00:00 - [2] I recommend you go Amarr or Caldari. They're going to be the bomb more than ever after all the ships that go over 2k get de-nutted. G -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
7317	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:08:00 - [3] Probably amarr then, with all the armor tanking skills i have. Returning to the topic; Give minmatar some love!
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:12:00 - [4] I always ask anyone who complains about their race this; "Did you tell amarr to -adapt or die- or some similar -amarr is fine- in the past years?" More then often shuts up a few individuals My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Buff Plankchest Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:14:00 - [5] Get a Sleipnir! MAssive tank, massive DPS
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:15:00 - [6] What a ridiculous troll. No one who actually flies those ships are worried about the upcoming changes. Stasis webifiers will still be just as nerfed when equipped to Gallente ships, only they won't have 40km range. And Minmatar ships will still go faster than equivalent ships of their class, for the most part, just like they do now. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Buff Plankchest Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:17:00 - [7] Originally by: Guillame Herschel What a ridiculous troll. No one who actually flies those ships are worried about the upcoming changes. Stasis webifiers will still be just as nerfed when equipped to Gallente ships, only they won't have 40km range. And Minmatar ships will still go faster than equivalent ships of their class, for the most part, just like they do now. Psssst... minmatar recons have bonus to web, gallente are scrams
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:19:00 - [8] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/07/2008 20:19:16 Recognized the OP as a troll from the line "projectiles suck" tbh. Godly falloff, high ROF, no cap use, best alpha for artillery, best tracking for AC. I mean come on.
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:19:00 - [9] i'll give you a hint, there's a reason why minmatar don't have much in the way of passive shield bonuses. it has to do with cap and their weapons. - -
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Buff Plankchest Originally by: Guillame Herschel What a ridiculous troll. No one who actually flies those ships are worried about the upcoming changes. Stasis webifiers will still be just as nerfed when equipped to Gallente ships, only they won't have 40km range. And Minmatar ships will still go faster than equivalent ships of their class, for the most part, just like they do now. Psssst... minmatar recons have bonus to web, gallente are scrams Way to miss his point. His point was that the webs are getting nerfed, NOT the Minmatar Recons. So, if you put a web on a Lachesis, it'll STILL be half as effective as it used to be. But if you put that same web on a Huginn, it'll be half as effective as it used to be AND have a crazy long range. Webs are nerfed across the board, the Minnie Recons and EAF aren't - the range bonus was their strength and they still have it. Double webbing something will still bring them to a slow enough speed for an MWD'ing battleship to close in on them (or any other ship for that matter). And all of you seem to be ignoring Nozh's statement that they are aware that the changes to webs will effect the role of Minnie Recons and EAF and will look at a fix to bring these ships back in line with their current effectiveness before any nano nerf goes live on TQ (whether that happens or not remains to be seen, but you guys are yelling about the sky falling down around Minnie Recon/EAF pilots a bit prematurely). Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/07/2008 20:19:16 Recognized the OP as a troll from the line "projectiles suck" tbh. Godly falloff, high ROF, no cap use, best alpha for artillery, best tracking for AC. I mean come on. I have no gripe with my autocannons, but I thought people said pulse lasers had best tracking and others say it's blasters with best tracking... I haven't cross-trained anything, so idk. Do AC's really have best tracking compared to their laser and hybrid equivalents? Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Segrams	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:25:00 - [12] if youre gonna be around a bit, train the gimpy race. it'll be back on top after a while. when i started i thought amarr had the sexy lookin boats but i got talked out of it. wouldnt say i made a bad decision but nobody is going to discourage you from training amarr now. $.02
7317	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/07/2008 20:19:16 Recognized the OP as a troll from the line "projectiles suck" tbh. Godly falloff, high ROF, no cap use, best alpha for artillery, best tracking for AC. I mean come on. Godly falloff? Meaning you will never do as much dps as your fitting tool says. You'll always fight in falloff. No cap use is penalized with no passive tank bonuses to any minmatarship and i must add that generally all minmatar ships have lesser capacitator capacity than other ships. Chosing damage type? this doesn't count for elite ammos and changing damage type in the middle of a combat costs you 10 secs of dps.
Heinkel facility Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:39:00 - [14] Originally by: 7317 Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/07/2008 20:19:16 Recognized the OP as a troll from the line "projectiles suck" tbh. Godly falloff, high ROF, no cap use, best alpha for artillery, best tracking for AC. I mean come on. Godly falloff? Meaning you will never do as much dps as your fitting tool says. You'll always fight in falloff. No cap use is penalized with no passive tank bonuses to any minmatarship and i must add that generally all minmatar ships have lesser capacitator capacity than other ships. Chosing damage type? this doesn't count for elite ammos and changing damage type in the middle of a combat costs you 10 secs of dps. You can change your ammo when your current load is empty. Minmatar has godly tanking VS amarr (92.5% EM and 85% Thermal or something). And you know what? Adapt or DIE! It's about time Amarr finally starts rising from the ashes of ner***e (I blame TomB, he was the one who nerfed Amarr so much while claiming Amarr are the coolest)
VoiceInTheDesert Gallente ANGELS SIX HIGH	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:39:00 - [15] I'm sure the Huggin and the Rapier are going to be given a boost of web strength if the web patch thing goes through. Even without it though, webbing from that far away is still really useful....Both are still very viable ships. Typhoon is really good. Works the same role as a Domi with almost identical stats. If you're putting guns on it, you're doing it wrong. I'm not convinced that HACs are going away. They are no longer solopwnmobiles, but they are still nice ships with definite advantages against certain ships and setups (just like every other ship in the game....can't be good against everything....not any more anyway). The Mimmy CS's are also very nice. Sleip is the best CS in the game, hands down. Tanks like a Vulture, shoots like an Astarte on steroids. Your t2 hurri skills will serve you well in one of these. Your caps suck though, so for future training, cross over to Cladari or (better option) Gallente.
Ron Bacardi Caldari SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:44:00 - [16] Hell, why not make all races EXACTLY the same!?!?! Face it, some are good or excel at some things that others wont. Minmatar will still have a speed advantage over all other races after the patch (assuming the patch stays the same). I'm starting to think all these whine threads are created by one guy with a multiple personality disorder......and each personality has multiple accounts with alts
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/07/2008 20:19:16 Recognized the OP as a troll from the line "projectiles suck" tbh. Godly falloff, high ROF, no cap use, best alpha for artillery, best tracking for AC. I mean come on. I have no gripe with my autocannons, but I thought people said pulse lasers had best tracking and others say it's blasters with best tracking... I haven't cross-trained anything, so idk. Do AC's really have best tracking compared to their laser and hybrid equivalents? Tracking efficiency: 1. AC's 2. Pulse Lasers 3. Blasters 4. Railguns 5. Beam Lasers 6. Artillery
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.07.30 20:55:00 - [18] Edited by: Black Scorpio on 30/07/2008 20:55:27 Originally by: 7317 Probably amarr then, with all the armor tanking skills i have. Returning to the topic; Give minmatar some love! You mean all 2 of them, and the 4 for passive?.. yeah... Also stop whining like a little beoutch. Train for your Command ships if that's bugging you. They're pretty good. Also the Typhoon and the Mael are pretty good ships. What's your problem? The fact that the nanos are nerfed a bit doesn't mean your ships aren't fastest than anyone else. Also the web is still pretty good, i suggest you fit 2x, even 3x on your recons if web is all you want, and you're good. As if the other recons don't fit multiple mods of whatever they specialize in. What's your problem again with minmatar ships?
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:04:00 - [19] Originally by: Sheriff Jones I always ask anyone who complains about their race this; "Did you tell amarr to -adapt or die- or some similar -amarr is fine- in the past years?" More then often shuts up a few individuals Actually plenty of us realized how obscenely fail the amar were and campaigned to help out. The only reason people said "Adapt or Die" is because ccp took two ****ing years to do anything about the amar issue. If they didn't adapt, they literally died. Minmatar pilots are already adapting because we have to if we want to keep playing the game. But that does not mean you should stop looking into how to fix a race. I liked minmatar ships.. they look cool and used to fly cool. They are just inferior right now and winning is a lot more fun than losing. Hence why I am adapting. There are plenty of threads talking about the minmatar issues but just to refresh your mind about the amar issues.... When you whined about your lasers having shitty damage types people reminded you that you had insane optimal ranges on pulse. People also reminded you that you did not have to reload and could switch ammo instantly. When you complained about your cap problems people said that you had plenty of lows and cap bonuses to offset this. The vast majority of people coming up with those arguements NEVER played amar. So they had no idea how absolutely awful the race was. Not to mention buffer tanks were not all that important two years ago... So, I fly minmatar ships. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to minmatar ships. 1. Capless guns - the vast majority of the time it means I'm sitting around with full cap. If for some reason it gets low, I cap inject. Everybody does that. 2. Damage types - Our ammo types dont even offer 100% damage changes like missiles do. You get a bit of kinetic here, a bit of thermal here and maybe some explosive. EMP, our main close range ammo is almost a 50/50 split between em and explosive, so no matter what tank you are shooting at, the ammo type SUCKS. Also, switching ammo types is something you can only do before a battle, otherwise you get to lose 10 seconds of a fight while you reload. Not to mention the fact that having cap boosters + 10 different ammo types is impossible. You might be able to cover all damage types but none of your guns could ever reload that type AND you would have to cut cap boosters. In reality, you load barrage and some other close range ammo or two. You use barrage at range and whatever the other ammo was at close range. Switching damage types is crap due to space requirements and reload time. 3. High Falloff. - Inside of optimal your shots always hit a stationary target. Once you get into falloff your chance to hit slowly decreases so that at optimal + falloff you are doing 50% of your dps. So if a tempest manages 500 dps at 1km with barrage, that same tempest will get 250dps at 35km. Fighting in falloff is an absolute joke. (and there is only one type of barrage for you damage type switchers). Our guns already have crap dps that is made awful by our high falloff. Even worse, we don't have hte speed to keep range nor do we have the tank to stay up close. 4. Utlity Slots - Tempest gets ONE utility mid and TWO utility highs. Rejoice. ECM, DAMPS, Tracking Computers, Sensor Boosters, Webs (soon), Nos, all nerfed. The mid slot really isnt much of a 'utility' slot but more of a 'wtf do I put here' slot. Sometimes having ECCM is nice but that isnt exactly hard to predict. Also, raven gets two utility slots, mega gets 1, dom gets plenty (475 dps BEFORE you use guns), apoc gets one... its not really a big deal to get one more extra high considering how badly the rest of the ship sucks. 5. Speed - Just got nerfed to hell and wasnt viable for the battleships before the nerf. OMG, YOU GO 20m/s FASTER THAN ME! OVERPOWERED!!!!!! I honestly sometimes wish the tempest's base speed was nerfed so that my arty could hit while I align out...
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:08:00 - [20] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 30/07/2008 21:11:34 It sucks that when sniping with the tempest I have guns with the WORST tracking and optimal but my ship has the highest warp out velocity. Bad tracking + high transversal = F41L And for you alpha strike noobs out there... High damage apoc fits with only SEVEN guns fitted gets 2500 per volley. Tempest with 6 guns gets almost 3400. Yes, the alpha is so insanely high... Mealstrom barely get any better. Minmatar battleships have problems. Lots of them. I don't see how it can be said that they are 'perfectly fine' or 'balanced' by anyone who has actually trained the race up to the battleship level.
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:31:00 - [21] okay, a bit of a makeover here, I've gone ahead and EFT-warriored a probable Tempest snipe setup and compared it with my own TachPoc, at lvl4 skills, just to give the Minnie a chance. Setups: My skills (lvl4, no lvl5 bullshit) [Apocalypse, Sniper] Reactor Control Unit I Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Capacitor Power Relay II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] 378 DPS, 2311 Alpha strike, tracking at 0.00752 197.18km lock range, 114mm scan res 16.4s align, 144 m/s Compared to a hypothetical ArtyPest: [Tempest, Sniper] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] 309 DPS, 3475 Alpha strike, tracking at 0.00504 190.18km lock range, 200mm scan res 15.3 sec align time, 175m/s As far as I can tell, the only weakness arty weapons have at range is tracking, compared to tach's that is. Also, because the Apoc has a DCU II on, its EHP is a bit higher, but still is paper-thin. with Lvl4 sanely-trained skills on the Tempest, I see it as slightly weaker, but not completely broken. -
Xzar Fyrarr Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Trojanman190 Edited by: Trojanman190 on 30/07/2008 21:11:34 It sucks that when sniping with the tempest I have guns with the WORST tracking and optimal but my ship has the highest warp out velocity. Bad tracking + high transversal = F41L And for you alpha strike noobs out there... High damage apoc fits with only SEVEN guns fitted gets 2500 per volley. Tempest with 6 guns gets almost 3400. Yes, the alpha is so insanely high... Mealstrom barely get any better. Minmatar battleships have problems. Lots of them. I don't see how it can be said that they are 'perfectly fine' or 'balanced' by anyone who has actually trained the race up to the battleship level. Agreed. Minmatar Battleships have a gooood portion of problems. To be perfectly honest- the only one I ever choosen to fly into pvp was the typhoon, and that ship takes crapton of SP to make effective.- Which I am only sitting on 12.5mill sp... yay a whole nother 30mill sp to go... yay... Also agree with that Minmatar are always adapting. They just seem like the ghetto race of EvE tbqfh. I will admit it though, it just seems when the announcement of the patch hit, that I spent 2 months training for a Rapier/Huginn for positively nothing. But I've been playing around with fits and it seems I can still make the rapier work as a solo ship ^^, I prefer to fly solo as the Blobing in this game is just getting lol tbqh. As I said before ^^ Completely Agree with that is posted.
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:41:00 - [23] Cown seems to do quite well in these terrible minnie BS'!
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:44:00 - [24] To the op you can fly a Sleipnir, it's a nice ship to have. The Broadsword is also worth training for. The biggest problem with large artillery is the "clip size" it has a low amount of shots before you have to reload it takes a long time to reload your guns and in laggy fleet fights it can be impossible to get them to re-activate them, which makes Tempest really suck for fleet fights.
Dihania Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:57:00 - [25] minnie before patch: * fastest race * recons with web range bonus minnie after patch: * fastest race * recons with web range bonus ----------------------------------- caldari before patch: * slowest race * missiles hit for lol damage caldari after patch: * slowest race * missiles hit ----------------------------------- gallente before patch: * blasters at point blank * drones * little use for recons gallente after patch: * blasters at point blank * drones * favor of the month recons ----------------------------------- amarr before patch: * good hac, recons, bs amarr after patch: * good hac, recons, bs Eve enters the AF age. Sniping age. The Armageddon. [hrhr] Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:58:00 - [26] I blame institutionalized racism.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.30 22:13:00 - [27] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Tracking efficiency: 1. AC's 2. Pulse Lasers 3. Blasters 4. Railguns 5. Beam Lasers 6. Artillery Actually, it's ACs, blasters then pulses. Provided you don't compare the highest tier - Large neutrons outtrack 800s (marginally! but it's there and illustrates how ACs don't outtrack blasters as much as people believe), medium neutrons get out-tracked by 425s after 3-4 decimal places and small neutrons outtrack 200s (by a small but noticeable margin). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.30 22:17:00 - [28] here a good hint train up missiles and hit the lachesis espically with people at the start of the patch still flying nanos you will get a few very easy OMG BBQkills because people are relunct to change and see if they can get away with it my corp in allaince already has set up to counter what we believe to be the next FOTM, we still have the same nano counters. also good pipes around our area which have a lot of nano activity ..... he who plans wins Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Rexthor Hammerfists The Movement	Posted - 2008.07.30 22:27:00 - [29] This sucks is said pretty damn fast on these forums, Minmatar doesnt suck and large projectiles dont suck. They are outperformed in many situations by other ships, but they get the job done - a fleetfitted tempest or a closerange fitted typhoon/Maelstrom can work very well. You see alot of this ship does X more dps then that one, but especially in small skrimishes what matters is your piloting skills, from choosing your targets to actually fighting, you will be satisfied with the minm bs if you get to know how to fly them. This tho doesnt mean that Large projectiles are behind other weapons, its far from sucking tho. - Any good reason for gateguns shooting drones and thus removing dronebased ships from pirating?
Pelagiad Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.30 23:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Guillame Herschel What a ridiculous troll. No one who actually flies those ships are worried about the upcoming changes. Stasis webifiers will still be just as nerfed when equipped to Gallente ships, only they won't have 40km range. And Minmatar ships will still go faster than equivalent ships of their class, for the most part, just like they do now. So you are saying that the Sensor Damp changes affected everyone the same, it didn't hurt a specialized ship like say the Gall recon ships more? is that what you are saying?
Rhanna Khurin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.30 23:24:00 - [31] I dont think there's anything wrong with the Matari BSs at all. Sure their roles arnt as defined as say a raven or a megathron but that true of nearly all Minmatar ships, you can do whatever you like with them. I for one have always been in love with the typhoon, many peeps say you need 23 mill skillpoints to use one effectively, while it does take more skillpoints to fly well in comparison to say a raven, it is quite quickly achievable.
Canock	Posted - 2008.07.31 00:16:00 - [32] Edited by: Canock on 31/07/2008 00:16:43 You guys are saying that minmatar ships will still be faster after the update, but it's taking away the thing that makes minmatar ships minmatar, speed. Speed at outrun missiles and whatnot, which will now be gone.
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.07.31 00:21:00 - [33] I reckon you shouldnt believe all the whining you see here. Minny scrapheaps will be just as good after the speed nerf, Fast ships will still be fast.
GateScout	Posted - 2008.07.31 00:41:00 - [34] Originally by: 7317 So, after analyzing all the changes with the upcoming patch, i could only find "one" (1) Minmatar ship efficient enough to use. Wow. I never thought I'd see a more pathetic whine...yet this guy shows up. You are a pathetic whining *****. Quit EVE now and go back to WoW.
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.07.31 01:13:00 - [35] We still have the rupture.
Buff Plankchest Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.31 01:34:00 - [36] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon We still have the rupture. PRAISE GARMON!!!!!
Saint Lazarus Spiorad ag fanaiocht	Posted - 2008.07.31 02:30:00 - [37] Originally by: Hieronimus Rex I blame institutionalized racism. qftmfgdt (Quoted For The Mother Fluckin God Dam Truth) -----------------
Vikarion Caldari Onyx Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.31 03:14:00 - [38] Edited by: Vikarion on 31/07/2008 03:14:59 I fly Amarr, but I'm sympathetic to Minnie pilots. Personally, I think the Mael is probably good as-is, but I think both the Tempest and Typhoon could use a small boost. Arty needs a boost as well - tracking, I'd say, or slightly faster firing, and autocannons could use slightly better optimal...15-30% increase, I think. Other than that, I think Minne is good. They have good cruisers, CS, HACs (speed nerf will NOT kill the Vaga), and an ok BC. EDIT: Forgot frigates. Rifter is the best PvP frig evah! Or so I hear. The Punisher is my poison, but that missing mid slot really hurts sometimes. -------- Where I got my great sig...
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.07.31 03:15:00 - [39] You forgot about how the Amarr women laugh at my small clip size when I show them my artillery. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.31 03:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/07/2008 20:19:16 Recognized the OP as a troll from the line "projectiles suck" tbh. Godly falloff, high ROF, no cap use, best alpha for artillery, best tracking for AC. I mean come on. I have no gripe with my autocannons, but I thought people said pulse lasers had best tracking and others say it's blasters with best tracking... I haven't cross-trained anything, so idk. Do AC's really have best tracking compared to their laser and hybrid equivalents? Tracking efficiency: 1. AC's 2. Pulse Lasers 3. Blasters 4. Railguns 5. Beam Lasers 6. Artillery WRONG! Check data before posting its 1. Blaster 2. AC (very very close to blasters) 3. Pulse lasers 4. Beams 5. Rails 6. Arties Just get in game and check the damm data. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Buff Plankchest Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.31 03:31:00 - [41] Brutor males can be made to look funny! Minmatar win
Lenori Kallis	Posted - 2008.07.31 05:17:00 - [42] To the OP: Why Minmatar? Cause everyone loves an underdog.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.31 05:45:00 - [43] one word: tempest. people jsut whine becaise they want their ships to be overpowered the ship is fine.
Sal Alo Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.31 09:00:00 - [44] Because we fight for freedom.
MenanceWhite Amarr Red Light Navy	Posted - 2008.07.31 09:12:00 - [45] Originally by: Spaztick You forgot about how the Amarr women laugh at my small clip size when I show them my artillery. ohho. But arties could really need more alpha. I loved the old WTFBOOM shoot away a geddeons shield and most armor in 2 vollyes pest. --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Reven Cordelle Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.31 09:18:00 - [46] Artils could do with a buff on the volley damage to be honest. When I light up 8 of the ****ers, I want to attack my targets weak point for massive damage, not see a little..sliver of damage appear and then wait 15 seconds for the next sliver to appear, only to have it pretty much immediately repaired during the reloading process. Considering how slow they fire, they should have epic volley damage. You're heaving 1.4m wide nuclear warheads or sharpened titanium sabots at things. That needs to be worth at least 4000 generic points of damage from a volley.
Sir Substance Minmatar Sunspot Requisitions Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.07.31 12:07:00 - [47] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/07/2008 20:19:16 Recognized the OP as a troll from the line "projectiles suck" tbh. Godly falloff, high ROF, no cap use, best alpha for artillery, best tracking for AC. I mean come on. because we all know that having to fight in a range where you are likely to miss up to 50% of the time, and doing bugger all DPS in change for giving your opponents tank a chance to look awesome by repairing all the damage before your next volley arrives is AWESOME! doing godly alpha strike doesn't make up for bugger all DPS having epic falloff doesn't make up for the fact that i can spit farther then my 800mm's can fire reliably. in small and medium projectile guns, the fact that it uses no cap makes up for these flaws. but battleships are the DPS bringers. in that respect, large projectiles epicly fail. my typhoon is fitted with pulse lasers. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for them, that all went out the window?
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.31 12:13:00 - [48] Originally by: Buff Plankchest Originally by: Nexus Kinnon We still have the rupture. PRAISE GARMON!!!!! Praise Garmon! In fact, the Garmon Rupture is so good, its still 100% valid even on SISI (only benefits from swapping 24k point for 9km point imo, so you can try to gank turret BS too, still keep MWD/1600 plate/etc/etc/etc/etc). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
the member Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.07.31 13:08:00 - [49] Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert I'm sure the Huggin and the Rapier are going to be given a boost of web strength if the web patch thing goes through. Even without it though, webbing from that far away is still really useful....Both are still very viable ships. really? and this is based on what? sixth sense?... well, let me ask you the same question differently: did you see the same thing happening to gallente recons when RSD got hit with the nerf bat? also, i've looked at some of your most recent posts and noticed that you are surpisingly quick to give out opinions about ships and corresponding fittings that you have never flown before yourself. moreover you don't know anybody who actually flies them efficiently on daily basis. something ain't right here.... Quote: "You're obviously from France." -- Intel CEO Paul Ottelini
Jonathan Davis The Bastards	Posted - 2008.07.31 13:57:00 - [50] Originally by: the member Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert I'm sure the Huggin and the Rapier are going to be given a boost of web strength if the web patch thing goes through. Even without it though, webbing from that far away is still really useful....Both are still very viable ships. really? and this is based on what? sixth sense?... well, let me ask you the same question differently: did you see the same thing happening to gallente recons when RSD got hit with the nerf bat? Dont forget the pilgrim/curse and the nos nerf!!! -
Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.31 14:32:00 - [51] Sabre/broadsword/sleipnir? ---<---@ JackFalcord
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:08:00 - [52] Originally by: Buff Plankchest Get a Sleipnir! MAssive tank, massive DPS Worst dps of them all and have a crappy shield tank. Got some extra range though. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Skogen Gump The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:10:00 - [53] Originally by: Xzar Fyrarr Agreed. Minmatar Battleships have a gooood portion of problems. To be perfectly honest- the only one I ever choosen to fly into pvp was the typhoon, and that ship takes crapton of SP to make effective.- Which I am only sitting on 12.5mill sp... yay a whole nother 30mill sp to go... yay... O/T, but when that PvP only involves looting peoples LVL4 salvage in Frarn; it doesn't really matter does it
Mira O'karr Minmatar Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:21:00 - [54] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/07/2008 20:19:16 "projectiles suck" tbh. Godly falloff, high ROF, no cap use, best alpha for artillery, best tracking for AC. I mean come on. always the same lines but i doubt you acctually fly the tempest a lot. falloff = reduced damage at acctual fleet sniper ranges (170km+) high rof = lots of reloads while having massive misses from falloff. best alpha = best hypothetical alpha... remember.. you miss a lot. large ac = can only really hit a barn door with it and damage is weak compared to blasters. (granted here the fall off is nice)
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.31 21:30:00 - [55] Rifter: Best T1 frigate Thrasher: Best T1 destroyer Rupture: One of the best T1 cruisers Hurricane: Best T1 battlecruiser Muninn: Scariest sub-battleship sniper Yeah. Minmatar totally sucks now that the Vagabond is nerfed. Quick, everybody go train Caldari. -- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.31 22:05:00 - [56] Originally by: Rooker Rifter: Best T1 frigate Thrasher: Best T1 destroyer Rupture: One of the best T1 cruisers Hurricane: Best T1 battlecruiser Muninn: Scariest sub-battleship sniper Yeah. Minmatar totally sucks now that the Vagabond is nerfed. Quick, everybody go train Caldari. 1 v 1 Rifter vs Kestral guess which will win? How many people pvp in destroyers? Rupture is a good cruiser but then so is a Caracal,so is an arbitrator, Blackbird, Thorax etc. The Stabber just got masively hosed, Bellicose has always been useless and lol scythe.Wow what an awesome line up of cruisers. Hurricane is about in line with the other teir 2 BC's, CCP have done a pretty good job balancing these. Munin lol out-ranged by an Eagle out-damaged by a Zealot. So what we have a couple of T1 ships worth training now and are now subpar in all heavy ship categories and most of the tech 2 categories.
UnDeRBaLaNcE Firehawks	Posted - 2008.07.31 22:13:00 - [57] I make minmatar work, upto, 54 kills this week, with only 5 deaths.
Spurty Caldari Trader's Academy Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.07.31 22:49:00 - [58] Originally by: Norwood Franskly Munin lol out-ranged by an Eagle out-damaged by a Zealot. Muninn, out damages an Eagle (still needs a buff). Muninn, better range than a Zealot. Eagle, out ranges all. Eagle, out damages um .. a deimos over 50km+ ranges? I flew my muninn last night in the nano-nerf test on Sisi. Rocked, has good resists (tank fitted + enough nano for about 2km/s) :0 If things stay as they are on the test server, flying todays nano fit into a fight is as effective as bringing a knife to a machine gun fight. Now you should fit some tank, you might as well, it doesn't slow you down enough to matter as you were never going to achieve ludicrous speed anyway ;0 If that fact takes people a couple of billion in snakes and faction mods to work that out, then please post in grossly verbose levels of detail how you fitted your ship and how it met its demise! Please add isk value for extra lolz. Honestly though, I like the idea of webs having more than the poxy 10km range. Why not make 10km the unnamed and every named +1km. Give webs 'immediate effect', like you just hit them with a tangible 'web', bosh ... you are now doing 50/60% the speed you where before the web struck you. If scrambling has an instant affect on your engines, why wouldn't a web? Its not as if web prevents the pilot moving away (a real web would prevent the ship from leaving the range it snagged em at, like a fly in a web analogy). meh there are plenty of ways to make nano less of a 'win' vs the poorly prepared. First would be to use gangs that have 1 huginn/rapier for every other ship :-) At least this 'normalization' CCP are looking doesn't limit people's selection of ships (although ogre 2s and missiles are soon to be highly considered the next flotm). -- Two prostitutes standing on a street corner. One says to the other, "Have you ever been picked up by the fuzz?" The other replies, "No, but I've been swung around by the ****!"
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.31 22:53:00 - [59] Originally by: Sal Alo Because we fight for freedom. Bloody terrorists…
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:47:00 - [60] I recommend you cry me a river. All you think about is your ships that you trained for. The nerf is a good thing since Caldari sucked against ships that they can't hit with missles. Guess why it sucked? Because most Caldari ships USE missiles! So cry me a river that your BS weapons aren't that great,not that I can confirm that nor do i believe you, at least they can hit. I will be enjoying the next few weeks , nanonubs' tears taste like candy. "Nanonubs: PVP Carebears at its finest"

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