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[Idea] Using ISK toward real world charity.

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Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:11:00 - [31] Basically the ISK fund players donate to could be used to purchas GTCs, and you'd just need CCP's blessing to re-sell those GTCs through the EVE store or something for cash. It'd be great publicity for CCP to do this too.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:37:00 - [32] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton that sounds nice and all but who's dollar is being donated to charity? Isk goes to CCP charity account. Charity account goes on forums, buys GTCs with isk. CCP charity account does not activate GTCs, but instead donates their cash equivalent to charity. Isk moves from donors to GTC sellers, money moves from GTC sellers to charity. It's a bit complex, but all well-ordered.
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:31:00 - [33] Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 06/08/2008 15:32:27 So basically, the result is CCP gives $$$ to charity? Edit: The idea is that you're giving ISK (which belong to CCP, not you) to CCP to give up $$$ (which also belong to CCP) away to a charity? I wonder if you considered the 'practicality' factor. My bet is that someone at CCP is having a chuckle, but I've been wrong before. San Matari Official forums
Uilliam Nebel Amarr 13th Udorian Rangers	Posted - 2008.08.06 16:00:00 - [34] Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 06/08/2008 15:32:27 So basically, the result is CCP gives $$$ to charity? Edit: The idea is that you're giving ISK (which belong to CCP, not you) to CCP to give up $$$ (which also belong to CCP) away to a charity? I wonder if you considered the 'practicality' factor. My bet is that someone at CCP is having a chuckle, but I've been wrong before. Yes, if you say ISK have no real world cash value, then it is that cut and dry. However, even though the EULA does state that it is illegal to trade ISK for 'real' currency, even CCP have to admit that a ISK in sense of a market where there is demand that will pay with cash, that ISK do have some (though extremely low) real world value. As does any popular MMO's in game currency, resources, and items. Virtual assets is a very immature field of economics, with a lot of complexities to still be exactly looked at. So it will no doubt take a little figuring out to establish just what sort of value a 'contribution' of ISK actually does have, and how stable it really is. As for your point of CCP owning all ISK, well as an example the United States Federal Reserve, a quasi private and public institution, owns all the U.S. currency printed through the U.S. treasury system. Yet the United States government makes it's citizens pay it in USD for taxes, etc, etc. At a simple look it would basically be saying that the United States prints money for citizens to earn, so that it may partially collect it at a later date. But it is not nearly that simple, which would arguably also be the case here. Which is why I'd think it be great for the CSM to suggest it to CCP, so it could be examined further. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Lia Gaeren Pole Dancing Vixens	Posted - 2008.08.06 16:06:00 - [35] Been trying to get my head around this... Sequence of events would be: Player A buys a GTC from CCP. Player A puts it on the market for however many isk. Players B-Z donate enough isk to an in game rep of the charity in question CCP 'pays' Player A the isk asked for. CCP does not activate the card (but renders it not activateable so Player A cannot re sell) CCP donates some/all of the cash they gathered from the original sale of the card to player A, to the charity involved. Winners/losers Player A is ahead - he has successfully converted his RL dollars into isk, which was the whole point of it as far as he is concerned. Players B-Z are ahead, as they have a warm fuzzy feeling. CCP are ahead, as they have received positive PR and removed a GTC from circulation without having to support the bandwidth etc required in game. CCP are ahead as they now have a tax write-off (assuming laws in Iceland regarding corporate charitable donations are similar to elsewhere). CCP are down because aside from the nominal saving of not needing to provide bandwidth and other support for the GTC user and also the amount of possible tax offsetting from the charitable donation, they have not made a profit on the card (but they've not made a loss either!). I can see this working, provided that CCP buys the GTC from a player who has already bought one with RL cash - that way they are not just removing the monies from their bottom line which they would be under a simpler model of the above process removing Player A from the equation. Disclaimer: I'm blonde. The above may be complete hogwash :)
Uilliam Nebel Amarr 13th Udorian Rangers	Posted - 2008.08.06 16:12:00 - [36] Edited by: Uilliam Nebel on 06/08/2008 16:12:51 Originally by: Lia Gaeren Been trying to get my head around this... Sequence of events would be: Player A buys a GTC from CCP. Player A puts it on the market for however many isk. Players B-Z donate enough isk to an in game rep of the charity in question CCP 'pays' Player A the isk asked for. CCP does not activate the card (but renders it not activateable so Player A cannot re sell) CCP donates some/all of the cash they gathered from the original sale of the card to player A, to the charity involved. Winners/losers Player A is ahead - he has successfully converted his RL dollars into isk, which was the whole point of it as far as he is concerned. Players B-Z are ahead, as they have a warm fuzzy feeling. CCP are ahead, as they have received positive PR and removed a GTC from circulation without having to support the bandwidth etc required in game. CCP are ahead as they now have a tax write-off (assuming laws in Iceland regarding corporate charitable donations are similar to elsewhere). CCP are down because aside from the nominal saving of not needing to provide bandwidth and other support for the GTC user and also the amount of possible tax offsetting from the charitable donation, they have not made a profit on the card (but they've not made a loss either!). I can see this working, provided that CCP buys the GTC from a player who has already bought one with RL cash - that way they are not just removing the monies from their bottom line which they would be under a simpler model of the above process removing Player A from the equation. Disclaimer: I'm blonde. The above may be complete hogwash :) No, that is pretty much as I saw it to. But I also wouldn't be surprised if someone has/could think of a better solution. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
The ChurchWarden	Posted - 2008.08.06 16:38:00 - [37] It is an interesting concept but several things need to be adressed. 1. Why doesn't CCP make ISK a Real Money economy game such as Entropia. If any MMO besides entropia has the economy to do it eve does. Of course they would need to review the entire way their economy is setup to do so because there will always have to be more losers then winners in terms of holding large quantities of isk [or could just have something like every 1 billion = 10 USD] So even say Ebank were to liquidate the entire stock would only get 10,000 ish USD assuming they have 1 trillion isk at the time. 2. Barring a RMT economy perhaps you should consider something along the lines of Players donating GTCs instead of isk. This will make things much smoother since a player can buy a GTC from another player [who bought it with cash] and then say have an option on your account page to donate GTC to charity. 3. Unequal donations. If we assume that a direct GTC donation vs an ISK donation is desirable then the GTCs USD worth at purchase should not be donated. Instead a portion should be donated such as what you'll see on tv where X amount of every dollar is donated. This means that CCP isn't cutting a grey on donated GTCs but instead donating say 50% of the USD value to charity.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:30:00 - [38] Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo So basically, the result is CCP gives $$$ to charity? Edit: The idea is that you're giving ISK (which belong to CCP, not you) to CCP to give up $$$ (which also belong to CCP) away to a charity? I wonder if you considered the 'practicality' factor. My bet is that someone at CCP is having a chuckle, but I've been wrong before. No, the result is isk buyers are giving their $$$ to charity instead of it going to paying another player's subscription fees. Other than admin fees, it doesn't cost CCP a penny. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Red Raider Airbourne Demons	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:30:00 - [39] I would actually mine at times just to do this! A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Scrap Ferret	Posted - 2008.08.06 20:29:00 - [40] Nothing bad about this. CCP show us how big your heart is!!!

The ChurchWarden	Posted - 2008.08.07 01:44:00 - [41] On a side note since I just realized this... do we really want corporate sponsorship in eve for events. I mean who wants to be watching the next Alliance tourne and see the coca-cola titan warp in and go disco? ... hmmmm
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.07 02:34:00 - [42] Originally by: The ChurchWarden On a side note since I just realized this... do we really want corporate sponsorship in eve for events. I mean who wants to be watching the next Alliance tourne and see the coca-cola titan warp in and go disco? ... hmmmm I'm not sure why you raise the topic, but I'm all for it. If branding the inside of every station with Coca-Cola logos meant they got to build a server that can actually handle the player base, I'll go buy a case of the stuff right now. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Lia Gaeren Caldari Pole Dancing Vixens	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto I'm not sure why you raise the topic, but I'm all for it. If branding the inside of every station with Coca-Cola logos meant they got to build a server that can actually handle the player base, I'll go buy a case of the stuff right now. What he said. I am used to ignoring advertising in real life, I am capable of doing it in game as well!
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:35:00 - [44] Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 07/08/2008 17:37:00 Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 07/08/2008 17:36:07 There's so many reasons this won't fly, that I'm only going to bother bringing up one: How do you think this will affect the isk price of GTCs? Imagine there being a new player in EVE with really deep pockets, and he is hungry for GTCs. REALLY HUNGRY, with billions of isk. There's a limited market of GTC sellers. Can you spell 'GTC isk price inflation'? Imagine a rocket on its way out of the atmosphere. Now imagine all the lost players that could only play cause they manage to gather up 400M isk every two months.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:40:00 - [45] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab There's so many reasons this won't fly, that I'm only going to bother bringing up one: How do you think this will affect the isk price of GTCs? Imagine there being a new player in EVE with really deep pockets, and he is hungry for GTCs. REALLY HUNGRY, with billions of isk. There's a limited market of GTC sellers. Can you spell 'GTC isk price inflation'? Imagine a rocket on its way out of the atmosphere. Now imagine all the lost players that could only play cause they manage to gather up 400M isk every two months. I'll agree with that somewhat, though I think it could be counteracted by CCP making it known to new players that there's a EULA-legal way to buy isk, which would probably increase the supply pretty dramatically. That said, I don't see what other problems there would be. Don't assume it's obvious - if you have reasons, share them. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Uilliam Nebel Amarr 13th Udorian Rangers	Posted - 2008.08.07 19:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 07/08/2008 17:37:00 Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 07/08/2008 17:36:07 There's so many reasons this won't fly, that I'm only going to bother bringing up one: How do you think this will affect the isk price of GTCs? Imagine there being a new player in EVE with really deep pockets, and he is hungry for GTCs. REALLY HUNGRY, with billions of isk. There's a limited market of GTC sellers. Can you spell 'GTC isk price inflation'? Imagine a rocket on its way out of the atmosphere. Now imagine all the lost players that could only play cause they manage to gather up 400M isk every two months. I think that it is a bit of a 'slippery slope' logical fallacy. How many GTC do you think this would buy a month? And after initial launch, how much will the amount donated in ISK begin to decrease, thus binging down the number of GTC for charity even more. But if it is all that great a concern, then a cap would simply have to be put in place to limit an artificial change of the open market price of GTC. Something I'm sure CCP would insist on any way if it was enacted. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
los ojos COGNET SpaceSystems Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.07 23:33:00 - [47] donating isk in-game -> donating real-world currency probably one of the most creative ideas ever to come out of an mmorpg you've got my support
Siebenthal	Posted - 2008.08.09 14:05:00 - [48] Good idea. If done right it can't hurt, only help.
Marlona Sky Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.08.09 19:31:00 - [49] This sounds like it could work. Maybe CCP could impliment something that the player gets to decide how much percentage is income from say missions and rats or whatever would go towards a real charities that they pick. Charities that are a world organization not something that is only local to one specific country per say. Like a cure for cancer or something. But if we are trading in ISK and CCP has to pay for that how would that work? The ISK could be used to sell GTC but then who from CCP would be online spamming to sell them or whatever?? Aside from that, whatever effort that is needed to make this happen would be well worth it. Could you imagine, as far as I know, nothing like this has ever been done. Wouldn't it be great if EVE Online was the first to do this?


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