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So long, New Eden (not nano related)

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Xonja 2zero Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:07:00 - [1] Thank You CCP, for two years of playing a great game. Thanks also for making it easy for me to leave. Yes, I'm quitting. No, this is not about the nano-nerf. In fact, i find it amusing that it took You so long to react to the issue, and come up with such a horrible fix. I left a month ago already. This is just a farewell, along with some bits the marketing department might find insightful. Yes, i should have left earlier, but i still had hope i'd have fun in the game again. No, don't bother asking about my stuff. I gave it away already, to people who deserve it. I'm not very well known here on the forums, and i couldn't care less. I dare say though that in game, quite a few people have known me; they either liked me as their friend or respected me as their enemy. Here's a quick recollection of my EVE carreer: After I started out as a total noob more than two years ago, I was wandering around aimlessly looking for the advertised action. I've been lucky enough to get taught the basics by a local carebear (which I mean by no way as an insult). No tutorial or wiki could have given me the same level of hands-on learning. Endowed with a general idea of the game, I wanted to do what all pvp-inclined, wide-eyed noobs want to do: become a bounty hunter. Fighting evil scumbags for unfathomable riches, what an outlook! But back then bounty hunting was just broken, despite all the pointers of it being an intended profession. After coming clean with my conscience i had some first, timid solo engagements in lowsec. Then I met my fate in VHI (the best corp in EVE!) and became an evil pirate myself. Been on the billboards, the priority target lists and the adrenaline rush. Since then I've been skill training by what i had gathered the basic principal in EVE: that specialization is key. One of the major crowd pullers in EVE has always been the fact that you can get better than a long-time player if you focus on a niche, no grind attached. I felt especially reassured by the fact that heavy specialization starting from zero takes at least a year, depending on goal. No game developing company could be stupid enough to **** off long-time players by breaking with that, right? Wrong. As seen before and now again, long standing concepts are being overthrown in the process of fixing a mostly unrelated, yet urgent design flaw - and fixing what wasn't broke in the process. Of course, the designers have never once admitted to being wrong. Instead of reverting an obviously bad change, they've always changed something else instead, creating more problems in the process. Dear CCP, i can only hope this time it's gonna backfire on a scale that you might feel in your wallets. My gut feeling is, that at least once upon a time, the specialization (and diversity of races) concept was the vision of the CCP dev team. But staff have been revolving, there's new game designers at the helm, and the company has been evolving. After all the recent and not so recent changes, I can't get this vivid image of a suit-wearing, TPS reports waving CCP marketing team out of my head. Buzzwording each others about how to make the game more compatible to the mass-market. Nightly drunk game designer sessions under the Aurora Borealis my arse. CCP, you have entered the international parquet as the romantic outsiders. That's why we came to dance. But now you're just another high-gloss, economically optimized, block-headed dazzler among many. You're high on the wake of your former achievements, but it's going down from here.
Xonja 2zero Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:08:00 - [2] You built EVE on the financial shoulders of long-time players. EVE is still Everyone VS Everyone, but it still is not for everyone. And never will be, as it is still way too complex for the average "casual" gamer. Even continually watering down essential concepts of PVP, moving the four races closer together in stat numbers, or replacing player skill with skill points, won't ever gain you subscription numbers remotely competitive to WOW. You'll just lose the hard core of players, and by that lose what IS EVE, and what HAS made it such an attractive virtual universe to its current denizens. Maybe i'm just wrong and there's no deeper meaning, no marketing motivation behind all the senseless side-"fixes". Then, in my opinion, something's going HORRIBLY wrong in the design department. Lacking initial, rock solid, chiseled-in-stone design bible? Good luck with that. Anyway. I'm happy i've left. I have more free time, and i don't feel guilty playing a game that i feel is no longer what i signed up for in the first place. In two years, i've met many interesting characters in game and made some great friends. They were what kept me coming back. I'd like to especially thank the great folks at VHI and MLTOV, who i've been sticking with through thick and thin, helped shape and evolve as a diplomat and alliance director, and viciously fought alongside with. <3 you guys! With a heavy heart, farewell also to Tim and Roe, as well as Nobi, Brain and Mosch, who i've been knowing pretty much since i started. Gonna miss Pan and Phyrr. Good bye to everyone else i've met along the way, friend or foe. Enjoy the game as long as you can and remember the good times :X FWIW, my account is running out tonight. I won't reply here any more. Bye!
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:11:00 - [3] So, this is a "Give me attention" post? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:11:00 - [4] Well, best of luck in your future endeavors. Protip: Don't biomass your character. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:12:00 - [5] To be fair, the game hasn't actually changed that much. But anyways...Bye.
Stormwind Bloodfeather Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:13:00 - [6] Edited by: Stormwind Bloodfeather on 05/08/2008 20:14:01 Originally by: Xonja 2zero You built EVE on the financial shoulders of long-time players. EVE is still Everyone VS Everyone, but it still is not for everyone. And never will be, as it is still way too complex for the average "casual" gamer. Even continually watering down essential concepts of PVP, moving the four races closer together in stat numbers, or replacing player skill with skill points, won't ever gain you subscription numbers remotely competitive to WOW. You'll just lose the hard core of players, and by that lose what IS EVE, and what HAS made it such an attractive virtual universe to its current denizens. Maybe i'm just wrong and there's no deeper meaning, no marketing motivation behind all the senseless side-"fixes". Then, in my opinion, something's going HORRIBLY wrong in the design department. Lacking initial, rock solid, chiseled-in-stone design bible? Good luck with that. Anyway. I'm happy i've left. I have more free time, and i don't feel guilty playing a game that i feel is no longer what i signed up for in the first place. In two years, i've met many interesting characters in game and made some great friends. They were what kept me coming back. I'd like to especially thank the great folks at VHI and MLTOV, who i've been sticking with through thick and thin, helped shape and evolve as a diplomat and alliance director, and viciously fought alongside with. <3 you guys! With a heavy heart, farewell also to Tim and Roe, as well as Nobi, Brain and Mosch, who i've been knowing pretty much since i started. Gonna miss Pan and Phyrr. Good bye to everyone else i've met along the way, friend or foe. Enjoy the game as long as you can and remember the good times :X FWIW, my account is running out tonight. I won't reply here any more. Bye! Obligatory "Can I has ur stuff" post. Storm. p.s. well reasoned post, ty for articulating it so well. 07 In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy!
AeonPhoenix	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:14:00 - [7] Please give some stuff away before it melts. :( (To people like me. ) That was a huge wall of text, it hurt my brain, and as much as I tried to concentrate reading it, I couldn't find anything about what you're unhappy with apart from you don't like some sort of changes planned or in effect and it's not about nano's.
Heartstone Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:15:00 - [8] Edited by: Heartstone on 05/08/2008 20:15:34 Well have a nice time out there in the real world. I agree with Tarminic though don't biomass your characters just yet. You never know when the bug will bite you again. ---
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:15:00 - [9] Originally by: TheG2 To be fair, the game hasn't actually changed that much. But anyways...Bye.
Braeriach	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:25:00 - [10] It's really good to see EVE still makes an impact on some people, and I bet it will for some time to come, whether they're looking fo the hidden treasure no one has yet found, or following the heard blindly to certain death or glory. Still, old things end and new things start, but the reaction is the same if you're lucky enough to be around to have the luxury of realising that your only option is to pick your sh*t up and get a move on or be left behind. Old news. Nothing to see here. The future contains the exiting decisions still undecided. (Note: Must remember to leave the forums alone after a few beers.)
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:32:00 - [11] To the OP: ALL of the original founders still work for CCP. And it's their vision that everyone else has signed on for.
Jimer Lins Gallente Federation Fleet New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:49:00 - [12] Edited by: Jimer Lins on 05/08/2008 20:50:32 Semi-obligatory snark (come on, you were expecting it!) For real- sorry to see you go, you make some good points, I don't agree with all of them, but that's what makes the galaxy go 'round. Like Tariminic said, don't biomass your character- I have a feeling you'll be back. ;) Fly safe, enjoy whatever you end up playing or doing.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.08.05 20:52:00 - [13] Originally by: J Kunjeh To the OP: ALL of the original founders still work for CCP. And it's their vision that everyone else has signed on for. Let me guess, they're all Managers now, they look at the turnover reports every day just before logging on to WoW ... ;-P How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
DruzidelCastro Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:02:00 - [14] You'll be back...eventually... I'll make sure of it! :3
Dionisius Gallente Sincarnate Holding	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:04:00 - [15] Originally by: TheG2 To be fair, the game hasn't actually changed that much. But anyways...Bye. Actually the game has changed quite a bit. Lets see the obvious and "fast" list, - Warp to zero - The new newbie chars - Drone bandwith - NOS Nerf - Dampener Nerf - ECM Nerf - Sovereignity ( as it is today ) - Fleets - New ships - Rigs From what i hear 2003 was, from what i know 2006/07 was up to today... i'd say EvE has suffered some radical changes. _____________________________________
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:23:00 - [16] Some other changes that come to mind in the last two years: -Supercaps -Boosters -Rigs/Wrecks/Salvage -Heat ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Nebulous Minmatar Thukker Insurgents	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:27:00 - [17] Bah! You will be back! and when you do I will point it out to everyone that your were that "person that pretended to leave for attention then came back" like Awox the chief forum warrior did the once, his was the shortest leave ever i think. -------------
F90OEX F9X	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:30:00 - [18] IMO he makes a few good points.. Written well also.
Arvald Caldari Ninjas N Pirates Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:31:00 - [19] heres a shocker, we dont care who you are or what you have to say
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:32:00 - [20] Originally by: Tarminic Some other changes that come to mind in the last two years: -Supercaps -Boosters -Rigs/Wrecks/Salvage -Heat Originally by: Dionisius - Warp to zero - The new newbie chars - Drone bandwith - NOS Nerf - Dampener Nerf - ECM Nerf - Sovereignity ( as it is today ) - Fleets - New ships - Rigs From what i hear 2003 was, from what i know 2006/07 was up to today... i'd say EvE has suffered some radical changes. And all positive changes IMHO. Homogenization would kill the most distinctive part of Eve, but by eliminating the most egregious FOTM's CCP is decreasing homogenization by making alternative fitting choices valid again.
rValdez5987 Amarr Warped Mining	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:34:00 - [21] If by turn away experienced players you mean send off the people who abuse the FOTM until it gets changed and then ***** about it even though its unbalanced in the first place, then I am glad your leaving. More people should cancel their subscriptions about it. There will always be people that step up to replace you. I just still dont understand how people really feel that the nerfs over the last 3 years are so horrible and unwarranted. Each race has its advantages, but game balance is important. I think people just hate having their FOTM taken away all the time. A bit childish really.
Alora Venoda GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:40:00 - [22] more things that were added in recent years: - tier 3 battleships - invention (end of T2 BPO lottery) - exploration (and other scan probe changes) - level 5 missions - removal of static plexes (higher than 2/10) - removal of ice belts from 0.8+ systems - rorqual and mineral compression nerfs - carrier cargo changes - mothership changes - POS changes (guns used to be inside the shields) - adding the drone regions of all the things that have changed since i started, i think most of them are for the better. and of those that i might dislike, i can at least understand why CCP did what they did. i am really not sure what changes the OP could possibly be complaining about besides the nano nerfs... the only other ones that come to mind that severely affected specialized characters are the drone bandwidth changes, and carrier/mothership changes. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Robert Rosenberg Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:45:00 - [23] Saying "this is not a nano-whine" does not make this not a nano-whine.
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:46:00 - [24] Originally by: J Kunjeh To the OP: ALL of the original founders still work for CCP. And it's their vision that everyone else has signed on for. They might work for CCP, but not on EVE. Oveur, TomB for instance. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:47:00 - [25] Originally by: Robert Rosenberg Saying "this is not a nano-whine" does not make this not a nano-whine. And this guy speaks truth. Sounds like a well concealed nano-whine when I re-read. Specialisation stuff tipped it off. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
Pan Fairchild Atropos Asylum	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:51:00 - [26] Ya will be missed X, take care.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.05 21:53:00 - [27] Give my my mine-laying ships back! Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.08.05 22:11:00 - [28] Originally by: Internetz ill give it 2 weeks and your back. Or at least until people realize the game will be better after the speed changes.
Captain Porter	Posted - 2008.08.05 23:26:00 - [29] Originally by: J Kunjeh To the OP: ALL of the original founders still work for CCP. And it's their vision that everyone else has signed on for. But, do they still with Eve Online and get their hands dirty?
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.05 23:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Xonja 2zero Thank You CCP, for two years of playing a great game. Thanks also for making it easy for me to leave. Yes, I'm quitting. No, this is not about the nano-nerf. In fact, i find it amusing that it took You so long to react to the issue, and come up with such a horrible fix. NANO WHINE DETECTED!
Roemy Schneider BINFORD Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.06 00:09:00 - [31] i can't remember xon ever having gone nano. what i do remember is the first time xon quit after CCP overdid it again - the gallente boats back then. the months of dedicated skilling seemed kinda wasted (not all changes were bad, the sum was horrible) the bug did bite again. then lasers gradually and unnecessarily received boost after boost (more or less directly - via ship bonuses for example) which brought us to today's ridiculous pulse fittings. faith in CCP crumbled; there does not seem to be a bigger plan behind such changes. just lots of ideas thrown at any given target all at once. only requirement; it must come from within the company - anything else will make them look weak and vulnerable. admitting mistakes/overachievements? hell no and "soon™" isn't funny anymore; it translates into gfy. "pre-nerfed", "boost patch" or "chief economist" got added to our vocabulary and filed under euphemism. and while i spent my first months carebearing, xon went all out pvp. eve is large and still versatile for carebears; i can just say "ah.. **** it" and go back and get 'bigger' in dozens of fields, most require just a few skills if any. it's not that easy when it comes to pewpew and you need to catch up to all those 50mil SP guys. specialization, yes. but right before nano hit the masses (thx to rigs and maybe LP store here and there), command ship blobbing appeared at the horizon. catching up to that takes ages. and why invest months of time and money if it is managed by such unrelyable hands. a few civilized nerf-tweaks are ok - but this nerfbat wielding otherwise only experienced by baby seals works against long-term-playing-with-your-head we all came here for. - putting the gist back into logistics
TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.08.06 00:17:00 - [32] Originally by: Dionisius Originally by: TheG2 To be fair, the game hasn't actually changed that much. But anyways...Bye. Actually the game has changed quite a bit. Lets see the obvious and "fast" list, - Warp to zero - The new newbie chars - Drone bandwith - NOS Nerf - Dampener Nerf - ECM Nerf - Sovereignity ( as it is today ) - Fleets - New ships - Rigs From what i hear 2003 was, from what i know 2006/07 was up to today... i'd say EvE has suffered some radical changes. That was sarcasm...
Valle Deelite	Posted - 2008.08.06 00:18:00 - [33] You might as well say goodbye to MMOs then. There's nothing else out there like Eve. There is no other game where people who only have 5 hours a week to play can hold their own with those who play 50 hours a week. There is no other game where dyed-in-the-wool PVE players can play on the same server successfully with hard core PvPers, or even go back and forth as their interests and available time to play the game vary over the years. There are damn few other games where you can tailor your character so thoroughly to your own ambitions and goals in the game. And, in my opinion anyhow, there isn't a company out there who does any better or more thoughtful job of listening to their player base and evolving the game than CCP. Yeah, they screw up sometimes, and yeah, sometimes their decisions aren't popular, and yeah, they are in this to make a buck and keep their game alive and growing, but if you think there's a better publisher out there, I think you've got another thing coming. SOE damn sure isn't. Blizzard either. There's a buddhist parable about a young monk who accidently put his pack down in dog crap, and then spent the next year as a nomad because he thought it smelled bad wherever he tried to settle. Just something to consider.
Vikarion Caldari Onyx Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.06 00:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Roemy Schneider then lasers gradually and unnecessarily received boost after boost (more or less directly - via ship bonuses for example) which brought us to today's ridiculous pulse fittings. ...what? Right, which is why everyone was training for Amarr before, and why we have so many Amarr FW players. Oh, wait...they weren't, and we don't. Pulse lasers are still underpowered when compared to blasters or torpedoes, and frankly, methinks you are merely upset that someone besides Gallente and Minmatar can actually succeed at PvP encounters. Autocannons could use a boost, though. -------- Where I got my great sig...
Daelorn Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.06 01:23:00 - [35] I lol at whoever said EVE hasn't changed much. Seriously, lol.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.08.06 06:00:00 - [36] Moved to OOPE. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang Special Agent Mitnal; Saving the forums one thread at a time!

Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.06 06:40:00 - [37] That long of a post and he didn't really say anything about why he was leaving, just some vague generalizations.
Reven Cordelle Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.08.06 08:21:00 - [38] Christ. So... Your stuff, can I have it?
Pan Fairchild Atropos Asylum	Posted - 2008.08.06 10:11:00 - [39] lol out of pod experience? Its all about the pod here. I'm guessing it was in General Discussions to start with. Hell you can't argue it 'breaks character' for roleplayers with the usual posting we have there. This is a very valid post and ccp should take note of what it implies. This isn't a prepubescent geek who spat the dummy. The love is gone and if pilots such as Xonja are leaving well I doubt its a good thing. As mentioned earlier, X did leave after the Gallente nerf but lets look at it realistically. I don't place months of my own time into something with the expectation that I'll never receive the final goal because of outside influence. X had been aiming for the Gallente command ship for a long... long time as the game requires. With the expectation to enjoy solo fights with that of the same class. Said cull ruined this expectation. To completely cut a style of gameplay alienates those involved. And in the fictional setting; environment is all you have. Early on when I was playing a few directors of the corp I was in left the game. Why? Because new invention rules placed the chances far lower. Its obvious to anyone with half a brain that the large alliances who had already invented said items placed pressure for this change. In doing so it ruined those directors efforts in creating a corp that could provide and manufacture for its members.
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:08:00 - [40] I think it was moved because it shows a lack of maturity if you are convinced that the only way a developer will listen to you is to (threathen to) leave the game. By strictily separating "FIX THIS!" posts from "I am leaving" posts people might become a bit more rational in their feedback. And i disagree that this poster is that rational. He states first that his post isn't about the nano nerf, but then doubles back and writes a whole essay about nerfing fads of the month. Since nanos were such a fad, this is indeed yet another immature nano whine.
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:44:00 - [41] It was moved because all quit threads are moved if not just locked/deleted. Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
sfxZeta Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:41:00 - [42] I think pretty much everybody in Molotov//Vhi knows that we don't always get along xonja :P However, good luck with future endeavors and i agree with druzipoo, you'll be back.
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:53:00 - [43] Don't leave, just take a break. Everyone burns out after a while and changes in the game mean changes in your tactics. It's hard to adapt but those who can eventually win out. However, I do wish CCP would learn to create more toys to counter existing problems instead of nerfing the offending ship/mod. As the OP said, nerfing causes other unrelated problems that cannot be easily fixed. While it does fix the main problem, it can cause countless others that bork the abilities of those who have spent a long time training for certain ships and setups, thereby alienating the players who have spent so much time training. A carefully thought out mod can fix the offending problem without borking others so much that it makes them useless. The nerf bat is being swung far too wildly these days, nobody is really thinking of the problems that a nerf can cause, they are only looking for a quick fix for a problem that isn't really a big concern. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
Nanobot Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.13 19:20:00 - [44] I would ask for your stuff, but you gave (some of) it to me already, sad to see you leave EVE, but I'll still backstab you in TF2. (Giving the love). Shoot 1st, shoot some more, keep shooting, some more shot, and if anyones alive after ask a few questions. Just a soldier following orders.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach	Posted - 2008.08.13 19:29:00 - [45] One more guy with more experience and skill point then I. I am that much closer to the top, keep leaving Being an arse aside, enjoy whatever you decide to spend your new free time doing. Slade DesuSigs

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