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Thanks for caving in CCP.

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Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:42:00 - [31] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 06/08/2008 14:42:44 Originally by: Mjeh My 3 accounts will not be renewed during the next billing period. Enjoy your bearfest, it was fun while it lasted :) I don't want you to leave, but if you do, can I have your stuff? In another month or so, I might add my stuff to it.
Mjeh STRONG POLITIK	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:42:00 - [32] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The changes are good. You are whining. Please emoragequit. Can I have you stuff? -I disagree. -Yes. -Like I said, I am. ;) -No, all my lovely billions made from ganking AFKplayers and farmers are going to someone a little more deserving.
Mjeh STRONG POLITIK	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:44:00 - [33] Originally by: Cornelius Murphy Originally by: Mjeh What dies here isn't suicide ganking, because there will still be ways, what dies here is CCP's integrity and, IMO, much of what was attractive about this game in the first place; the cold, unforgiving atmosphere. CCP had integrity? Blimey, you live and learn! They had when they posted THIS They lost it when they posted THIS
Gojyu Ever Flow HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:45:00 - [34] Perhaps you guys should move to hello kitty online, you're playing the wrong game. Eve is a harsh, unforgiving kinda place. You guys made suicide ganking something so mundane it was considered the norm, now the harsh and unforgiving part has come around to bite you on the ass. CCP have decreed that you guys are now going to have to actually pony up some isk in order to kill someone is secure space, you know, actually have a bit of risk to go with that reward
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:47:00 - [35] What i've read here: "they loose the integrity of the cold harsh world" "it's too warm ad cuddly" "etc other references to EVE turning fuzzy" Now. If you really think EVE should be harsh, cold, etc, wouldn't this be exactly the direction? Hmm?
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:47:00 - [36] Originally by: Mjeh -No, all my lovely billions made from ganking AFKplayers and farmers are going to someone a little more deserving. Can't blame a guy for trying ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:50:00 - [37] Originally by: Gojyu Perhaps you guys should move to hello kitty online, you're playing the wrong game. Eve is a harsh, unforgiving kinda place. You guys made suicide ganking something so mundane it was considered the norm, now the harsh and unforgiving part has come around to bite you on the ass. CCP have decreed that you guys are now going to have to actually pony up some isk in order to kill someone is secure space, you know, actually have a bit of risk to go with that reward Give me a big break... Look, everyone knows all this does is raise the bar to free travels in candyland. So instead of hauling 150 million isk freely afk, people can now haul 400 million in isk freely afk because it takes that much more to make it worth while. This isn't a fix at all, it doesn't add RISK to the ganker, it gives no incentive to the hauler to play smarter, it just gives out more free hauling passes...
Xen Mind School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:52:00 - [38] so will the tutorial be changed aswell? cause if you forgot it actually tell you to shoot ppl in high sec ..... so no more new players when they will figure out that the first shot they fire in high sec will render them locked out of high sec but mehh Make love not war ccp Can i have flowers sticking out my guns plzzzzzzzzzz they are so cute
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Tarminic Stock Response: Sec Status Hit: Only occurs to one person even if a dozen are involved in the gank. Increasing this by a maximum* of 10% (+5 sec stat vs. -5 set stat) will affect solo gankers a little, but not very much. Seems I recently read that somebody at CCP was considering giving all the gankers in the gang the same sec status hit. Don't remember where, CBA to look for it and I don't see any mention of it in the devblog so it might not actually be happening... just tossing it out there. ___________________________________________
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:53:00 - [40] Originally by: Christari Zuborov So instead of hauling 150 million isk freely afk, people can now haul 400 million in isk freely afk because it takes that much more to make it worth while. So tell me, what do you think it the upper limit of value that someone should have in a T1 hauler? ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)

Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:53:00 - [41] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Give me a big break... Look, everyone knows all this does is raise the bar to free travels in candyland. So instead of hauling 150 million isk freely afk, people can now haul 400 million in isk freely afk because it takes that much more to make it worth while. This isn't a fix at all, it doesn't add RISK to the ganker, it gives no incentive to the hauler to play smarter, it just gives out more free hauling passes... So..umm..you're complaining that some haulers might haul more stuff, that the gankers can suicide with bigger loss? Seems to me this balances out nicely in the lucrative gank market, but avoids tiny ganks for the tiny players. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Yussef Amarr Trader's Academy Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:54:00 - [42] Im fine with these changes except I think it's time for empire space to start shrinking. They always need a place to start at but too many are making it home. And give more incentives to leave it and head into lower sec.
Brainless Bimbo Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:56:00 - [43] Insurance was only introduced as eve was too hard. It had a place when introduced but really needed to be tweaked to take into account all the other things that have evolved to mitigate the reason it was created. ...... continues overleaf.
Ardrilian Gallente Glowing Goat	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:00:00 - [44] Originally by: Mjeh ... If you play smart, you're immune... I've never been suicide ganked nor have I ever touched a mining laser other than in the tutorial. However the above quote doesn't hold true in all cases. You can hardly avoid being suicided in your Hulk if someone sets his mind to it. And when done propperly it will hardly cost any money to the one killing a 100 mil ship atm. Whether that is something that needs changing is a different story, but there are those cases where suicide ganking is very much unbalanced. And please don't tell the miners that they just have to get a second account (or a 3rd) or some corpmates guarding them while mining in high-sec because that would be pretty much out of proportion too. Did CCP listen to the whiners? maybe. However there is so much being whined about that it would be extremely hard find anything to change without supporting at least one whiner-faction. Did the pirates get hit hard with the nerf-bat this time around? most probably. Just wait till they will tune down missile damage due to the upcoming nano-changes and enjoy the CNR whines about how useless their mission-ships are now (not that I would have specific information on anything like that but everyone gets hit hard at times)
Antarr Slagh Trans Eve Organization	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:01:00 - [45] I agree with OP. CCP gave in when they shouldn't have. --------------------------------------------- Runner of the Fleet Lottos!
Mjeh STRONG POLITIK	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:07:00 - [46] Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Insurance was only introduced as eve was too hard. It had a place when introduced but really needed to be tweaked to take into account all the other things that have evolved to mitigate the reason it was created. The whole issue with the insurance payout or not is so-so. The much bigger problem is the lowered response time of concord, this is the dealbreaker. And the principle of the matter that CCP caved in on this matter is what pounded the last nail into the coffin for my part. I'm just saying, I hope you all realize what this is implying
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:09:00 - [47] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Christari Zuborov So instead of hauling 150 million isk freely afk, people can now haul 400 million in isk freely afk because it takes that much more to make it worth while. So tell me, what do you think it the upper limit of value that someone should have in a T1 hauler? Tarm, I don't think ANYONE should have a free pass as long as they keep below a certain limit, that's not how it should work. That makes things far too static, which is what the complaints of the haulers themselves are. They feel it's too easy, there's no risk involved to gank. Once you've done your little calculation you know whether you'll win or lose, and roughly how much you're going to receive in reward. If we want to make it riskier to do this action, fine make it more risky but make it more risky in a way that a n00b can gank another n00b and profit. The way it's going to be set, they remove that from gameplay because there's an artificial profit bar that must be overcome.
Mjeh STRONG POLITIK	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:10:00 - [48] Originally by: Ardrilian stuff about barges always being volunerable Yes, this is true. I've never killed barges on the "because I can-level", but I suppose Jihadswarm is more difficult to guard against. But even there, there are easy ways to lower the risk substantially. And not surprisingly, the fundament of said ways are always - you guessed it - don't be afk.
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:15:00 - [49] Originally by: Mjeh -Like I said, I am. ;) not fast enough. - -
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:16:00 - [50] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Christari Zuborov So instead of hauling 150 million isk freely afk, people can now haul 400 million in isk freely afk because it takes that much more to make it worth while. So tell me, what do you think it the upper limit of value that someone should have in a T1 hauler? Tarm, I don't think ANYONE should have a free pass as long as they keep below a certain limit, that's not how it should work. That makes things far too static, which is what the complaints of the haulers themselves are. They feel it's too easy, there's no risk involved to gank. Once you've done your little calculation you know whether you'll win or lose, and roughly how much you're going to receive in reward. If we want to make it riskier to do this action, fine make it more risky but make it more risky in a way that a n00b can gank another n00b and profit. The way it's going to be set, they remove that from gameplay because there's an artificial profit bar that must be overcome. So should it be economically viable to suicide gank someone with five million ISK in the cargohold of their hauler? Because currently that's profitable in the current system. A thorax can reliably chew through an untanked T1 hauler in high-sec. After insurance payout, you'll be out a few million ISK. So in order to break even you have to destroy a ship with 6 million ISK it its cargohold, or about 4-5 T2 modules. Hell, under the current system it's profitable to suicide gank an empty hauler with 2 tractor beams and expanded cargohold IIs in its low-slots. I think that's a problem. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)

Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:18:00 - [51] Originally by: Tarminic I think that's a problem. This is no laughing matter! __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:19:00 - [52] Originally by: Tarminic Hell, under the current system it's profitable to suicide gank an empty hauler with 2 tractor beams and expanded cargohold IIs in its low-slots. WTB: Low-slot tractor beams. - DesuSigs
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:20:00 - [53] Originally by: Bager Gray If they are going to increase concord effectivness, why not decrease the amount of high sec space. why should they? is there not enough low-sec or 0.0 available? what so many people fail to understand that is if people want to pay $15 a month to hang out in Empire, that's THEIR business, not YOUR business. just because YOU want to gank people who don't want to be ganked doesn't mean you should be able to. now, i personally think that people who don't venture out of high-sec are missing most of the game, but it's not MY choice to enforce that they play how I want to play. This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Kretin Arnon Amarr Path of the Immortals	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:21:00 - [54] Originally by: Mjeh The whole issue with the insurance payout or not is so-so. The much bigger problem is the lowered response time of concord, this is the dealbreaker. And the principle of the matter that CCP caved in on this matter is what pounded the last nail into the coffin for my part. I'm just saying, I hope you all realize what this is implying It's just changes. Just like when sentry guns or insurance were introduced. Though the changes aren't very innovative they are hardly a dealbreaker. As a low sec pirate I regard these changes as a boost. In fact chances are good that even more nice stuff will be transported careless through high sec. +--------------------------+ For now I sleep and watch
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:22:00 - [55] Originally by: Pesky LaRue what so many people fail to understand that is if people want to pay $15 a month to hang out in Empire, that's THEIR business, not YOUR business. just because YOU want to gank people who don't want to be ganked doesn't mean you should be able to. Linkage - DesuSigs
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:24:00 - [56] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 06/08/2008 15:26:29 Some of these replies are pretty humerous. I had a feeling what would be said if I left out one of the things about how I play eve and it worked. I got around 10 posts saying OH LOOK ITS HARD FOR YOU NOW etc... Guess what? I've never suicide ganked or even attempted it in my whole Eve Career. All you people are missing what I was trying to say in the original post about insurance. I hinted that yes I can see why people would complain and I said I could see how suicide ganking was probably too much reward for too little risk, but they've jumped from one end of the spectrum right to the other. They've gone from small risk to carebear, small penalty to suicide ganker to. Almost no risk to carebear, MASSIVE PENALTY to suicide ganker. 110 million isk insurance payout? No, ZER0. I also brought up the greater wide rammifications and even if the carebears were worthy of more aid, its too high a price to pay for the nockin effects it's going to have in empire. You can try to educate how so VERY EASY it is not to get suicide ganked but it's the usual answers. 1. Fit warp core stabbers? A. Waah, but an extra cargo expander can go there. 2. If you have 500 million in goods, why are you still in a t1 hauler? A. I only started yesterday, I don't have the skills for it, I sold GTC's for isk to buy stuff. :( Etc... I tell you what, although the principles of the EVE world are getting screwed, I am going to LOL HARD at the first whine on this forum by the carebear who accidently shot a neutral entity in a l4 mission, got concorded and recieved no insurance.
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:31:00 - [57] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Tarminic Hell, under the current system it's profitable to suicide gank an empty hauler with 2 tractor beams FITTED SOMEWHERE ON THE SHIP and expanded cargohold IIs in its low-slots. WTB: Low-slot tractor beams. BECAUSE I AM A BIG STUPID HEAD FACE Fixed. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Ron Bacardi Caldari SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:32:00 - [58] I've suicide ganked in the past, i don't have a problem with this change. Why? Eve is supposed to be a harsh, cruel universe! That's what all the PvPers, suicide gankers, pirates, everyone in C&P like to say. Well, it certainly isn't a harsh cruel world for suicide gankers. Besides a meager sec status loss that is easily fixed, the ISK loss is negligible. It is not a harsh cruel world for suicide gankers, it is Hello-Kitty-I-can-do-whatever-I-want-with-almost-no-consequence-world.
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:32:00 - [59] What the?? Guys? Argh Ganked... OMG, they stole mah tech 2 kidney. You know what irritates me the most that people aren't seeing? I've played it safe all these years in hauling and been rewarded by having minimal losses, having to gate grind through systems sucks, and it made it exciting seeing people lock you on gates and that, putting you on the edge of your seat. Now people are getting permission to be lazy and idiots and will reap the same benefits that I made sure I achieved but with minimal effort. Why are the people playing smart always getting nerfed and the lazy ones always getting more protection?
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:32:00 - [60] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Pesky LaRue what so many people fail to understand that is if people want to pay $15 a month to hang out in Empire, that's THEIR business, not YOUR business. just because YOU want to gank people who don't want to be ganked doesn't mean you should be able to. Linkage i know you're having trouble getting your tiny mind around this, but you CAN still gank people in high-sec, it just won't be as easy. i understand that you want to stamp your foot a few times until you get some attention but go find a link to ANYWHERE that says you won't be able to suicide gank anymore and we'll all give you a little hug and wipe your tears away. This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++



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