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Darth Vaders Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.07 05:20:00 - [151] Edited by: Darth Vaders on 07/08/2008 05:23:08 Originally by: Trathen I think there is two separate arguments here mashed up in that goddawful slippery-slope-doomsayer thing. -Suicide ganking probably needed a fix. It was way too easy and way too profitable. Was this the way to do it? Who knows but it won't save the true idiots AFK hauling with things ten times the value of an uninsured battleship. As you know traveling with a hauler setting it to autopilot takes very long time to make any sence. So i never do it.But you have to respect the player that has a busy real life and still wants to play. So he can set the autopilot while he washes the dishes. To you may seem bad form of gaming but some people don't have much time. So they deserve some fun since they pay each month the same cash you pay to CCP. Now,as i mentioned before the "idiot" that does this can still be ganged like before if he carries expencive stuff since the profit you get by the droped modules will be bigger than your loss. Quote: -Pulling out the big picture, we can see that the almost-safe hi-sec space is even safer and way too profitable. This is a problem. In strict risk/reward terms, 0 risk should equal 0 reward. After the nerf, the only risk most high-sec players see isn't a loss, just "less gain" (ninja salvaging, can flipping). Wee. You ve got to be kidding. I have been to 00 and you can make 50 millions in a couple of hours with average spawns. Hey, did i mention once that i killed a dread gurista and he droped me a Rattlesnake BPC? And there are also the complexes with the expencive modules they drop that you make billions in a couple of hours. Where do you find buyers for them? You guessed right. In high sec. Now if you can gang people in high sec with 0 cost you are hurting your potential buyers. So people won;t buy your Machariel BPC and your complex modules because since ganging would cost 0 to the attacker noone would take the rist to buy them. So you would have to rat all the time to make a living.= boring for you. Quote: This is where everyone says, "But we just mission-run on our own. How does that affect you?" Well, the same reason twinking ruins other games. If I'm scraping around in low-sec and decide to come to empire to replace mods and a ship, guess what other buyers I get to compete with? Mission-runners! That's right, while PvPers were off losing their umpteenth ship, mission-runners were making a crapton more money. Then when I go to buy a mod, oops, they are insanely expensive because mission-runners just made 200 million ISK grinding missions for 2 hours so who cares if they blow it all on a handful of upgrades. They're not going to lose them anyway, right? No because the average mission runners don't replace their modules as often. That drops the prices at the market since they donl;t generate much demand. Instead if you can go blow them up all the time with 0 cost they will have to buy more modules raising the prices overall due to increased demand. So it's the opposite of what you said.
oooo000oo0o0o0o0o0o000o0	Posted - 2008.08.07 05:37:00 - [152] What I find totally hilarious about this thread, is that all the people who used to say to all the people who used to make threads about removing insurance payout for gankers is that: eve is a tough place, harden the ** up; and then would go gank a mackinaw or three, are now the ***es whining about the fact that CCP just made the game more difficult. GG CCP. Seriously I could bath in all these gankers tears all day long. Go gank some more mackinaws while you still can tough guys.
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.08.07 06:49:00 - [153] Originally by: Darth Vaders As you know traveling with a hauler setting it to autopilot takes very long time to make any sence. So i never do it.But you have to respect the player that has a busy real life and still wants to play. So he can set the autopilot while he washes the dishes. To you may seem bad form of gaming but some people don't have much time. So they deserve some fun since they pay each month the same cash you pay to CCP. I don't think the changes will affect haulers that much, most that get hit are worth billions and you can still take them out relatively cheaply compared with the likely payout. The problem with insurance is that it has made it profitable to gank almost anything due to insurance payout and because Concord doesn't pod people. The changes will force high-sec gankers choose targets of value or targets of hate rather than just almost anything that moves because the risk & consequence is low. I don't think there is the need to protect someone who is afk for very long periods of time on autopilot. Quote: You ve got to be kidding. I have been to 00 and you can make 50 millions in a couple of hours with average spawns. Hey, did i mention once that i killed a dread gurista and he droped me a Rattlesnake BPC? How about the carrier drop in 00 that carries 50 million of tritanium and several millions of other minerals? As for the danger of 00 they are not so big if you know what you doing. I knwo that all 00 farmes are as carebears when they are rating or mining as the carebears in high sec. You see a non friendly at local you refer it in agony to the alliance scout channel and you go hiding into a safe spot. WOW! Seems so dangerous You must be real heroes out there. The problem is the PvE danger levels are Low-Sec, High Sec, 0.0 and the reward vs risk is 0.0, High Sec, Low-Sec. You need high paying missions designed for small fast ships which will attract a PvE element in low-sec. That is something that needs addressing, it is one thing to make high-sec harder on pirates but their niche play ground is slim pickings. If we don't resolve the low-sec problem then we will just see people build look to find holes in the new mechanics, find something else to abuse. Quote: No because the average mission runners don't replace their modules as often. That drops the prices at the market since they donl;t generate much demand. Instead if you can go blow them up all the time with 0 cost they will have to buy more modules raising the prices overall due to increased demand. So it's the opposite of what you said. Mission runners are the biggest market for faction and complex loot, only part of that is servied via missions. I think the removal of insurance payments for concord deaths will have a bigger effect on the market because dying was generating money and they were in turn re-purchasing ships and cheap modules. There reduced demand for disposable ships will likely cause a slight depression in the market and reduce demand which will help to reduce prices. An oversupply of resources will keep prices low, at present ships and several minerals are near the cap level where the demand is lower than the self-destruct insurance value of a ship. There is no evidence I have seen that killing mission runners or mining ships has slowed down the supply of resources. But if anything the constant loss of suicide ships has probably peaked some of the more popular gankmobile prices higher than they would normally. Market is quite flexible even in the light of massive change, I think they really need to look at removing T1 drops from missions/rats and I question the value of keeping insurance in any form because it is causing a significant artificial control for mineral prices thus capping how low things like ships can drop to demand and supply pressure.
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.07 09:25:00 - [154] I endorse the OP.
Poison Punch	Posted - 2008.08.07 10:39:00 - [155] I agree that this patch will reward AFK gameplay.
Carrier Eleven Gallente EVE Posting Service	Posted - 2008.08.07 10:54:00 - [156] Edited by: Carrier Eleven on 07/08/2008 10:55:02 Originally by: 5pinDizzy I did hear the cries of the people complaining about certain aspects of suicide ganking. I would have been fine with this if you'd have said, well, they can have basic insurance covering the hull, but no Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum. But ZER0??????!!! hmm, just like real world. Use your car to commit a crime, it gets trashed in the process, you think your insurance is going to pay out? Hardly. Originally by: 5pinDizzy They aren't going to suicide ganked either now, they must all be jumping for joy as the sound of this news. ...but I guess that was the point, look after the people with two dozen subscribed accounts. I've played this game for over 2 years on multiple chars and I've never been suicide ganked once, and I have moved expensive stuff around, I just know how to be sensible and I bet the same could be said for a lot of people. I can't think of anyone who deserves sympathy that's been suicide ganked. - The people carrying 100mill in the untanked t1 hauler? No. - The freighter carrying 99 gazzillion isk in capital ship bpo's? No. - Giant gangs of mining barges? Hell No. This update rewards. - Macro miners and macro mission runners. - AFK gameplay. - That if you whine on the forums long enough you'll get your way. So good luck on your continuing to quest Eve Empire into Warm Cuddly Town. So come flame me forum warriors! I don't care I'm mad enough about this change then anything I've ever heard come from them before, whatever you say to me it was worth it. They didn't make ganking impossible. They just made it a little tougher to do, and with a more realistic set of consequences. As you pies are always saying "adapt or die" Until then I will continue to enjoy your tearful whines greatly!!
Lord Zoran House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.08.07 10:58:00 - [157] Edited by: Lord Zoran on 07/08/2008 10:58:33 Originally by: Janu Hull Edited by: Janu Hull on 06/08/2008 14:19:45 If you suicide gank any ship that isn't worth more than the ship you're about to lose, you're essentially a barking moron deserving of a painful reminder to play intelligently. Stop being sloppy and target the good stuff. This isn't the death of suicide ganking, its just a reminder to gankers that this game isn't meant to be easy on the predator any more than the prey. clearly this, if you can't make a profit without the insurance payout find another profession......
Carrier Eleven Gallente EVE Posting Service	Posted - 2008.08.07 11:03:00 - [158] Originally by: Mjeh Whiney ragequit can I haz yer stuffs??
ZaKma Body Count Inc. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.08.07 11:17:00 - [159] So instead of costing a few hundred mil it will now cost you 1-2 bil to suicide a freighter. While in my last corps we did some freighter suicides that dropped up to 25 bil in loot. I hardly see the issue here. It makes it a little harder sure, but there will always be dumb people in empire hauling too much waiting to get killed. ✖ Arachnophobia ✖
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.08.07 11:40:00 - [160] Originally by: Praleon I don't normally chime in on these kinds of topics because standard internet trollery is far beneath my general concern, and I know that 95% of the responses will be thus. That being said, EVE Online is a video game that tries to simulate life in a futuristic universe with empires, rules, society, etc. I will dismantle this and all similar posts from 3 perspectives, simulation-wise, game balance-wise, and meta-game wise. 1) Simulationist One part of an Empire is "Law"... to hold any credibility, all empires must enforce laws that protect peaceful life within them. If they don't? Well, that makes them just about as useless as your average 0.0 space corp... completely incapable of controlling what happens in its own space. That's why 0.0 corps don't turn their space into 0.5, 0.7, or 1.0. In its current state, the game allows you to "suicide gank" innocent people and take, potentially, every last thing they have. The POINT of CONCORD shooting you down when you do this is to PROTECT the assets of ANYONE in their space. That's what a "government" does, and it's what this simulates. TECHNICALLY, they should stay at the scene and revive the damaged ship, protect the wreckage, and/or return the contents of the destroyed ship to the original owner... which is what the police would really do if we were to gang up and wreck a semi on the highway in real life. If we want to rob a semi truck in said fashion, we'll have to do it out in the boonies somewhere and clear out before the police arrive. They are SIMULATING the safety of controlled space in this fashion, and the proposed changes PERFECTLY REINFORCE THIS CONCEPT. 2) Game Balance "I don't think people fully realize what's at stake here... As the OP title hinted at, this is CCP caving in and going back on one of their core principles, in what seems a desperate measure to keep disgruntled players who were too lazy to play on any other mode than AFK-mode. What dies here isn't suicide ganking, because there will still be ways, what dies here is CCP's integrity and, IMO, much of what was attractive about this game in the first place; the cold, unforgiving atmosphere." This kind of retort indicates absolutely minimal thinking about the repercussions of the behaviors of players in the game. I've never been suicide ganked. As a matter of fact, I didn't buy an obelisk because of suicide ganking being present in the game. They will in fact kill suicide ganking, as, it is not an intended method of taking people's things away from them. 0.5-1.0 space is considered "safe space" and is a place for people to play the game when they DO NOT FEEL LIKE MESSING WITH YOU. Now, how is it not balanced? It allows those who are trying to SAFELY MAKE A LIVING to be ruthlessly GANKED by those who already HAVE MADE A LIVING in EVE. This is one of EVE's forms of griefing. The dev's have CLEARLY COMMUNICATED that they intend 0.0 and lowsec to be the place for PVP. Already in game is the ability to war dec someone's corporation in high sec, to steal someone's jetcanned minerals, and to salvage other people's wrecks. These things should be enough. To be continued: 1) Show me 1 country which can stop me from killing someone? Or has police on the scene 5 seconds afterwards? Instant or near instant police respond timers are highly unrealistic. 2) So you are just a wimp? A freighter functions perfectly fine for ~400 million worth of cargo. It was designed to transport stuff like a full load of trit not a full load of megacyte. 3) CCP has become big due to being a niche game where violence flourishes. This is one of the reasons they don't have the same problem s as normal MMORPG's that bleed members over time (instead they have been gaining members over time). Now they are stepping out of the niche and atleast loosing me as a customer. Wether this will turn out to be a good choice or not will only be seen in the future, but I won't recommend it anymore. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs

Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.08.07 11:43:00 - [161] Originally by: Farham So what exactly does this break about High Sec? You have to be more picky with your suicide ganks now. It will still be plenty worth ganking a freighter or hauler, you just have to do a little math now. I mean seriously, suicide ganking right now is just carebearing. It just promotes more AFK hauling. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Pesadel0 Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.07 11:56:00 - [162] What i feel is that allot of devs that stayed allot of time with us ,and that had a dream about a game that everyone could do what they wanted but had never a sense of security is slowly declining, and a new age of devs that didnt even play UO or other PVP centric MMO of old are just crapping eve with their so called S*** balance and eventually will destroy eve, i like to call them the WOW instant gratification MMOers ,and it is a shame really. It is not the nerfs that get under my skin ,is the shift of focus that i saw in 2004 in balance and always trying to remain true with their vision, now we have fear saying things like "not sportsmanship" to kill people just to grief someone. Another Dev saying they are thinking changing how wars work ,giving a chance to the defenders to dictate the terms of war.... Maybe i'am getting old but it pains me greatly that a dream like EVE is ,in my view, being carebearized like UO trammel style. ------------------------------------------------------------------
Maglorre	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:01:00 - [163] Originally by: Meh And ... sigh... it seems I must link THIS once more, seeing as how you brought up 'intended gameplay'... I love how you keep linking to this. It's awesome, did you read it? Quote: While travelling on auto pilot is a good option to have it may not always be the safest thing to do when transporting extreme valuables I bolded a little bit for you. Please define "extreme" for me. You do realise it is currently feasible to suicide a hauler in some cases simply for their T2 fittings right? Doesn't seem very extreme to me.
Lexandrius Megens Interstellar Federal Forces	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:49:00 - [164] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Quote: In addition, the highly requested feature of removal of insurance in CONCORD related events will be implemented in the near future. The CONCORD changes and Security penalty will be hitting TQ this fall, with Empyrean Age 1.1. Be safe out there! CCP Fear So there you have it, empire space is about to become ten times more boring. I did hear the cries of the people complaining about certain aspects of suicide ganking. I would have been fine with this if you'd have said, well, they can have basic insurance covering the hull, but no Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum. But ZER0??????!!! You know all those ISK farmers we're supposed to petition that you never ban? They aren't going to suicide ganked either now, they must all be jumping for joy as the sound of this news. ...but I guess that was the point, look after the people with two dozen subscribed accounts. I've played this game for over 2 years on multiple chars and I've never been suicide ganked once, and I have moved expensive stuff around, I just know how to be sensible and I bet the same could be said for a lot of people. I can't think of anyone who deserves sympathy that's been suicide ganked. - The people carrying 100mill in the untanked t1 hauler? No. - The freighter carrying 99 gazzillion isk in capital ship bpo's? No. - Giant gangs of mining barges? Hell No. This update rewards. - Macro miners and macro mission runners. - AFK gameplay. - That if you whine on the forums long enough you'll get your way. So good luck on your continuing to quest Eve Empire into Warm Cuddly Town. So come flame me forum warriors! I don't care I'm mad enough about this change then anything I've ever heard come from them before, whatever you say to me it was worth it. I have a trade alt that moves valuable stuff that does not take much m3 but is worth plenty per m3, but that has been kamikaze ganked over 3 times. I lost 2 ships and over a couple of hundred mil isk to the ganking in 0.5 and even 0.8 systems. Not to mention my comrade that lost 3 ships to the same kamikaze noobs. So I had to get the alt some skills to let it use a heavy plated and shielded cruiser with max hp/passive resists to offer some form of protection against the kamikaze Brutixes and Dominixes that lurk around. Since I implemented that anti kamikaze ship, it got attacked 9 times, however all 9 failed in killing it. Last time even 2 Brutixes shooting at my alt at the same time could not even get the shields down (10% left). And the banks of armor plates were still shining in the sun. I enjoyed all of the 9 times. Now I just let it run on autopilot on my notebook to provoke the kamikazes to shoot it and i go lounge on my lazy couch and watch TV in the meantime, keeping a look on the screen and laugh my balls off when yet another fool bites the dust and gets wtfconcorded haha However one thing I did always wonder, and that is why did they get insurance when its a concord event? That seems like you use your car in a bank robery and the cops wreck it when you try your getaway and you want money from ur insurance because the corps wrecked your car. That is no way gonna happen in real life and that is exactly what CCP had in mind with concord events. So I will enjoy it even more when the new insurance will be implemented! haha suckers
Poritt	Posted - 2008.08.07 13:22:00 - [165] tbh I have only been suicide ganked once and it was the best thing to happen to me. I learnt that there is no time in this game when I was safe. After the initial nerdrage I'm gonna quit I picked myself up, dusted myself off and learnt from my experience, and therefore I have not let it happen again. In short this nerf is a bit like a prositute for carebears. It will give them what they want but not what they need. I am sad to see the change.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2008.08.07 13:42:00 - [166] Awesome change. A bit overdue, but hey - better late than never. This want halt suicide ganking, but it will even out riscs for the ganked and the gankers. Very nice.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 14:29:00 - [167] Originally by: Steve Hawkings The thing is the only people that cried are the stupid ones that lost millions in a gank. Clearly, patently untrue. I've been speaking out against suicide ganking for quite some time and I've never been suicide ganked, never lost a tenth of an ISK to gankers in any way and have never been adversely affected by it. I've played in both high sec and 0.0 during that time and these days spend most of my time in 0.0 where, interestingly enough, such things don't happen. Despite that, I still see it as wrong, terribly abusive and for intents and purposes an exploit as it was. Better now, although whether it will be enough remains to be seen. Shooting people right in front of the cops should get you kicked out. Really, it's not a hard concept to wrap your head around if you get it out of your posterior long enough. Yes - some people do actually support changes that aren't in some way benefitting personally just because they believe them to be right. It may be hard for you sociopaths to believe but some of us do actually do it. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.07 14:38:00 - [168] Edited by: Maximillian Bayonette on 07/08/2008 14:38:03 Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom Yes - some people do actually support changes that aren't in some way benefitting personally just because they believe them to be right. It may be hard for you sociopaths to believe but some of us do actually do it. But no people can actually oppose changes unless they are personally affected by them, right? It's just those opposing this nerf that are sociopaths, amirite?
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 14:48:00 - [169] Originally by: Mjeh The much bigger problem is the lowered response time of concord, this is the dealbreaker. And the principle of the matter that CCP caved in on this matter is what pounded the last nail into the coffin for my part. I'm just saying, I hope you all realize what this is implying I know I do. People like you will have to either pick their targets much more carefully or go shoot at people who can shoot back. Or leave of course. I'd prefer you pick either of the latter two options. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 15:24:00 - [170] Originally by: 5pinDizzy <snip> With platinum insurance and probably waiting around for around 40 minutes for the right victim, you've probably just lost about 10 mill from the ship loss, but if all went well and the right stuff didn't get destroyed you probably made around 100-150 million from the cargo loot. So to clarify, you've netted 90-140 million ISK profit for forty minutes work. Quote: Now we look at it from the other side. Accumulating the cost of that hauler, the insurance and fitting cost for it, and mining/producing the contents took, probably 6-10 HOURS OF DRUDGERY Net profit from all those boring hours? Zero. That's how the post should read. Whether you like people who play that AFK game or not, they keep the economy running and you are ruining THEIR enjoyment of the game. Perhaps they are people like my fiancee (a miner) who frequently has to AFK fly or haul because they only time she has to play is while at home watching our little one. Or do you think that she should lose a couple days worth of work and production because she thought that dealing with a little one who needs attention - who might be sick, or hurt, or upset - is more important than watching her internet spaceship for that particular 2 minutes? Many people playing in high sec are there because that's the only way they can play the game AT ALL due to real life concerns. 0.0 levels of attention make the game unplayable for them. And so do folks like you. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)

Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:04:00 - [171] Originally by: Mjeh Comprehension failure? This isn't about insurance I think the comprehension failure is more localized to Mjeh. The only person I've heard grouse about the increased Concord reaction time is you - which seems to imply you usually gank alone and with ships that won't be up to the job with the new response times. Getting a friend will allieviate that nicely. The reduced time of response affects team gankers not in the least. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Bald Rikk The Legendary Fleet	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:06:00 - [172] Initially I thought these changes were a bit, well, harsh. I have now had a bit of time to reflect and one good thing has come from it. A false sense of security that will come about. Many people will quite suicide ganking entirely, few will make a steady living out of it. But the number of people who fancy a quick gank for some fun will have... get this... easier targets. Why will there be easier targets? That false sense of security this change brings to the AFK haulers and miners - more will be inclined to afk again as the will likely feel safer. -- Baldrikk Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:33:00 - [173] Originally by: Jim McGregor What part of recyclable alts dont you understand when you talk about penalties being effective? That may be the reason for faster Concord response times. Grinding an Alt up to the level required to successfully tank and gank will now take longer making them somewhat less 'disposable' - or at the very least harder to replace. Of course, personally I loathe the 'Alt Game' and wish they'd find a way of making it an exploit. But I realize that I'm entirely in the minority and that such isn't a reasonable position to expect CCP to support. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:39:00 - [174] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom That may be the reason for faster Concord response times. Grinding an Alt up to the level required to successfully tank and gank will now take longer making them somewhat less 'disposable' - or at the very least harder to replace. Of course, personally I loathe the 'Alt Game' and wish they'd find a way of making it an exploit. But I realize that I'm entirely in the minority and that such isn't a reasonable position to expect CCP to support. It IS an exploit to use disposable alts for ganking. It is also not effective. This is a strawman setup by people who don't like suicide ganking. Suicide gankers might use alts, but they are NOT disposable ones.
mingmin	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:59:00 - [175] I own a freighter and theres nothing i can do to stop myself becoming ganked, i have no slots i cant fit wcs, i can't align any faster, theres nothing i can do apart from warp to each gate and jump and warp again very slowly to the next gate. And no i dont carry gazzilions of bpo's in my hold why would i, they fit in a interceptor, what a stupid concept put forward by the op, i carry the stuff that i mined myself, to trade hubs. so..what do i do even if i could bore people into ganging with me for a long and slow journey, they cant protect me, i would still get insta popped by a gang intending to take a freighter, the pies alts would'nt get flagged for taking my loot, only to me in a pod. so i ask you what do i do when you cry and moan about the changes, what amazing suggestions do you have for me?
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:20:00 - [176] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist We live in a world where nobody can accept responsibility for their own actions and it's always somebody else's fault. It's not my fault that I AFK-hauled and got ganked! Isn't that the same mentality the other way around? They can't accept the fact that an aggressive attack on another person in high-sec should warrant a very hard and tough punishment. If you purposefully killed someone in front of CONCORD, knowing that you yourself would die ... shouldn't that carry a hefty punishment? It seems more than 'fair', to use the term, that if you commit the crime, you don't get insurance payouts, AND you get enough of a sec hit that you can't enter high-sec. The lack of accepting 'responsibility' goes both ways. I like this post. A lot.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:22:00 - [177] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette But no people can actually oppose changes unless they are personally affected by them, right? It's just those opposing this nerf that are sociopaths, amirite? People can oppose or support anything whether it affects them or not, although by playing EVE it will always have some affect at least in a cascade fashion if it is an EVE change you are supporting or opposing. Whether or not it's sociopathic support depends entirely on the reason for such support. And it's spelled "Am I right?" May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:31:00 - [178] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette It IS an exploit to use disposable alts for ganking. It is also not effective. This is a strawman setup by people who don't like suicide ganking. Suicide gankers might use alts, but they are NOT disposable ones. But if it were disposed of, say, a week later, who would file the petition? Or even know that it had been done? It may have been declared an exploit but if it's unenforceable, it isn't a very useful one. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:36:00 - [179] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 07/08/2008 17:37:43 Originally by: mingmin I own a freighter and theres nothing i can do to stop myself becoming ganked, i have no slots i cant fit wcs, i can't align any faster, theres nothing i can do apart from warp to each gate and jump and warp again very slowly to the next gate. 1. Yes there is something to stop you being ganked, it takes around at least 20 battleships + support to suicide a freighter, if you don't carry more then around 2 billion in goods, you aren't going to get suicide ganked as it isn't cost effective for them, it's already assumed half the stuff will blow up with the freighter. I've never been ridiculously wealthy like some, but isn't 2 bill a fair margin to work with? 2. You put all your stuff into a secure can, then put it into a courier package, and they can't scan you. The only problem is to stop the people doing it for lulz. But that side of eve is always going to be there. Yes if 20 plat insured battleships suiciding a freighter will only lose them 600,000 million odd isk to the Freighters 800,000 million thats unfair. But is it fair instead that they lose more like 2.7 billion with the changes? Originally by: mingmin And no i dont carry gazzilions of bpo's in my hold why would i, they fit in a interceptor, what a stupid concept put forward by the op, i carry the stuff that i mined myself, to trade hubs. That was the point, why should I feel sorry for the freighters I've heard about getting popped before full of bpo's when you can ferry them around in an interceptor.
Doppleganger Minmatar Imperium Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:44:00 - [180] This must be a good change. All of the good changes have stirred up alot of controversy. .



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