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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
   |
Posted - 2008.08.09 16:48:00 -
[271]
Oh, and the next person to suggest they "only" live in lowsec/0.0 for the PvP and couldn't care less about ISK...
GO PLAY ON SISI THEN !
I mean, you don't care about ISK, you only care about PvP, so why not go somewhere where PvP is removed from ISK-making and ISK-consumption ?
Oh... wait... next ting you know, you're going to tell me SiSi PVP is meaningless ?
But... how can that be ? You just SAID you don't care about ISK, but only about PvP, so how can PvP by itself BE meaningless ?
See where I'm getting at ?
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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Nayah Thalaen
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.09 17:02:00 -
[272]
 Originally by: Scimon ReCerch
One of the GREATEST things about EVE is that it caters for everyone.
Some people want to live in a safe environment and continually do the same missions over and over just trying to beat their best times. they want the best equiptment money can buy and are prepared to pay it and not cry when it goes kaboom.
Some peeps throughly enjoy the alliance life and whatever joys there are to be found in 0.0 they farm the faction to sell to the bears and have their insanly expensive ship purely to shoot another ship.
Thre are traders in freighters going region to region in lust of the ISK with wallets bigger than their epeens.
**** me there are even people who like nothing more than the thrill of mining nothing more than Veld.
Why you just live with the differences in EVE's diverse playerbase ? It is the underlying interactions of these people which drives every aspect of this once harsh universe we live and play in.
/bow
/signed
"Understanding yourself without understanding your enemy only gives you half a chance of victory." |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.08.09 17:38:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Akita T
But you can bet that *IF* I'd need more ISK, I won't be doing anything OUTSIDE highsec to get some more.
Still I don't think it's good for the game as a whole for me (and others like me) to be ABLE to make so much ISK in almost complete safety (and usually solo).
I don't care. Most people don't care. Why are you whining about it? Shut up and make as much money as you like, it's your spare time and you can do what you want with it.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.09 18:05:00 -
[274]
Quote:
Who are you to say that EVE must cater to one play style only and people who don't like that should get lost?
I really, really wish people would gain some reading comprehension. Truly.
I did not say that people who do not like risk should get lost. I said that people who put themselves at risk should be rewarded for it and currently they are not.
Quote:
There's absolutely nothing wrong with making ISK safely in EVE, it costs enough time and it is not very rewarding in itself, the reward is spending the ISK (for some people PVP, for others flying better ships).
You can't have competition if there's an easy backup way to print a ****ton of ISK. It dumbs down EVE PVP to WoW battleground style, except worse.
Quote:
Because there is so much more fun to be had 'out there'.
Have I not already explained why the "Having fun PVPing is its own reward" concept is flawed? Let me spell it out.
With an easy backup way to make huge amounts of ISK, there is no concept of loss, nor of winning. It dumbs down PVP period and means that you can never really win since anyone can easily and quickly replace any losses by grinding missions for half a day. People who go out and fight to control important valuable territory should have MORE ISK than people who sit in hisec, not less.
Quote:
I don't care. Most people don't care. Why are you whining about it? Shut up and make as much money as you like, it's your spare time and you can do what you want with it.
So it's gotten to the point you're not even trying to argue that the current situation is good for the game...it's just "STFU and play". 
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Tzigan Jegos
Dirty Gypsies Trading Co.
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Posted - 2008.08.09 18:09:00 -
[275]
Quote:
Remind me again, why should I ever leave highsec come autumn ?
to kill people in 0.0 without security status penalties
The dog that trots about finds a bone. - Gypsy proverb |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.08.09 18:22:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
With an easy backup way to make huge amounts of ISK, there is no concept of loss, nor of winning. It dumbs down PVP period and means that you can never really win since anyone can easily and quickly replace any losses by grinding missions for half a day. People who go out and fight to control important valuable territory should have MORE ISK than people who sit in hisec, not less.[/b]
This is all moot when there is GTC=>ISK conversion available for the impatient people.
Quote:
Quote:
I don't care. Most people don't care. Why are you whining about it? Shut up and make as much money as you like, it's your spare time and you can do what you want with it.
So it's gotten to the point you're not even trying to argue that the current situation is good for the game...it's just "STFU and play".
Yes, STFU and play if you cannot think 2 seconds about the greater picture.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.09 18:31:00 -
[277]
Some issues just can't be agreed on, and in a lot of cases, both sides are right.
On a different, but ultimately related topic: Why don't players go into losec? Mission runners, miners, industrialists, etc?
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.09 18:47:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/08/2008 18:52:49
Originally by: Pan Crastus
I don't care. Most people don't care.
Apparently, I care enough to make this thread.
You care enough to reply.
Countless others with STRONG opinions going either way also care.
Originally by: Pan Crastus
This is all moot when there is GTC=>ISK conversion available for the impatient people.
Oh, my, I *wonder* who the hell the majority of people getting GTCs with their ISK are... could it *gasp* be that most of them are highsec mission-runners too ?
Originally by: Ruze
On a different, but ultimately related topic: Why don't players go into losec? Mission runners, miners, industrialists, etc?
It's the very same topic, slightly different.
Answer ? There's no longer a good reason to go there.
Mining in lowsec sucks thanks to the drone region mid and high-end mineral crashes (megacyte is slowly recovering after an adjustment to one megacyte-heavy drone alloy had most of it replaced with lower tier minerals), the only half-decent mining is Gneiss in hidden exploration mining sites.
Ratting in lowsec sucks, period. It always sucked, but at least mining used to be somewhat decent.
Missioning in lowsec can at best grant you about 50% more LP than mission-running in a 0.5 surrounded by highsec (or even a 0.6 for that matter), and LP value crashed down overall with the introduction of the LP shop and then removal of nexus chip NPC buy orders.
Dwindling population numbers means the not-so-friendly people make up a much higher percentage of the population, which drives most traders away due to the risks. Overall lower population numbers drives industrialists and traders away even further.
All in all, in most cases, a vast majority of lowsec is simply not worth going into.
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.08.09 18:47:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
Its amazing to see such an old player can still be totally clueless.
Well, clue me in then, paraplegic-theoretical-physicist-namesake !
/thread
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.08.09 19:00:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 09/08/2008 19:04:21
Originally by: Akita T
Oh, and the next person to suggest they "only" live in lowsec/0.0 for the PvP and couldn't care less about ISK...
GO PLAY ON SISI THEN !
I mean, you don't care about ISK, you only care about PvP, so why not go somewhere where PvP is removed from ISK-making and ISK-consumption ?
Oh... wait... next ting you know, you're going to tell me SiSi PVP is meaningless ?
But... how can that be ? You just SAID you don't care about ISK, but only about PvP, so how can PvP by itself BE meaningless ?
See where I'm getting at ?
*blah *blah *blah *rant *rant *rant...
Strawman.
Never said isk was 'meaningless', or that I didn't care about it, just I don't spend my Eve time grinding the stuff for isk's sake: most of what I get comes from loot sales, which means it covers losses and makes a small profit.
Seriously, what the hell is your problem?
"HELP! I'M A CAREBEAR AND I HATE MYSELF!!!"
Dude, pop a pod, lick a corpse, or something....
Edit: I was a miner once, and the only time mining was fun was ninja-mining deep in FE space, avoiding the trigger happy occupiers of Vale - the thrill of not getting caught, getting Zydrine back to Empire through the choke points to help build my mates first Battleship, that was fun (if you don't fancy being on the 'other side').
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.09 19:02:00 -
[281]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/08/2008 19:04:20
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Strawman.
Prove it's a strawman argument.
You can't.
It's not a strawman argument, it's reduction to the absurd.
And if you never said ISK is meaningless, then you imply that ISK *is* meaningful.
If ISK is meaningful, how can you NOT care about how people get it and what risk it involves ?
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.08.09 19:07:00 -
[282]
Because, whatever the hell anyone else is doing, I still have FUN in this game, something it would seem, you do not.
But whatever, continue rant...
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 19:10:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Because, whatever the hell anyone else is doing, I still have FUN in this game
Precisely why your contribution to this thread is null and void.
You'll still have your "FUN" either way. So STFU and leave.
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.08.09 19:14:00 -
[284]
Quote:
Ranting is prohibited
A rant is a post which is long-winded, redundant and filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents.
Perhaps you should leave too...
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 19:16:00 -
[285]
I still have fun, even if I don't 100% agree with the mechanics. Does that mean I can't post, either?
If I didn't have fun ... well, you wouldn't see me posting here. I'm not going to pay to play a game I don't enjoy. I might enjoy it more if a few things were changed. and I might still enjoy it if a few things were changed even if I don't like them. One day, I might actually look up and go 'this game sucks'. At which point, I'll leave.
I'm not harassing you, Akita. Just pointing out that getting into 'STFU' arguments don't validate you original post any. Sure, it p*sses you off when someone doesn't agree with you (which I think is the case here) or is simply playing dense, but if you have a solid point, you have a solid point.
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 19:18:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/08/2008 19:20:02
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
A rant is a post which is long-winded, redundant and filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents.
Let's see...
Long-winded ? Just longe enough to express a point, which most seem incapable of grasping no matter how much you explain it.
Redundant ? Only as redundant as it needs to be.
Filled with angry, non-constructive comments ? Hmm... the tone of voice MIGHT have been slightly disspointed rather than angry, and it ONLY turns to "angry" when replying to inane comments. Also, it's FULL of CONSTRUCTIVE ideas of what should and could be done to improve on the current situation.
So... who's ranting ?
Originally by: Ruze
Just pointing out that getting into 'STFU' arguments don't validate you original post any. Sure, it p*sses you off when someone doesn't agree with you (which I think is the case here) or is simply playing dense
When somebody cries "strawman" to an argument that's not even remotely close to being one, somebody who says nothing else except "I'm having fun, so all is fine, don't whine"... what ELSE can you tell them except "STFU" ?
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.09 19:30:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ruze
Just pointing out that getting into 'STFU' arguments don't validate you original post any. Sure, it p*sses you off when someone doesn't agree with you (which I think is the case here) or is simply playing dense
When somebody cries "strawman" to an argument that's not even remotely close to being one, somebody who says nothing else except "I'm having fun, so all is fine, don't whine"... what ELSE can you tell them except "STFU" ?
Don't tell them anything. They invalidate their own arguments when they go that route. Just as I pointed out, if you have to sink to insults or commanding others, you make your own counter argument sound weak and immature (despite how much validity it might actually have).
I wouldn't respond in kind, cause then you just repeated their mistake. Instead, point out that they insulted you or that they used a pretty base debate tactic, then state your counter argument and the intent of your words, if there was any mistake. Finally say that you disagree, and thats acceptable.
But that's just advice from me. I ain't the most favored poster-boy on these forums, either
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 19:53:00 -
[288]
Attacking a completely distorted, weaker version of someone's argument is a strawman.
Moving on, what are you asking for?
Is there a good, purely isk-making reason to leave high-sec? NO, stay there, get fat on Level 4 missions.
Is there a valid reason for leaving high-sec? YES, it bores the **** off you after so long and you'll quite possibly leave the game.
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.09 20:02:00 -
[289]
Edited by: Clair Bear on 09/08/2008 20:03:38
Fact: the only damage you can do to another player in eve is economic.
So yes, ISK production and consumption matter if you're playing for a goal. If not, they do not.
Oh, and 0.0 living is far less stressful, less laggy and lower impact than empire if you do it right. I can afk/dock when my baby needs me, unlike L4 mission running. And it's only going to get better with the nano nerf.
So what we have is:
1. Empire for beginning and 2+ year old characters.
2. 0.0 for 3 month to 2 year olds
3. Lowsec hard mode fight club for the jaded oldbies
I see nothing wrong with this. Variety good. Monotonous uniform tedium bad.
|
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 20:07:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Clair Bear
Edited by: Clair Bear on 09/08/2008 20:03:38
Fact: the only damage you can do to another player in eve is economic.
So yes, ISK production and consumption matter if you're playing for a goal. If not, they do not.
Oh, and 0.0 living is far less stressful, less laggy and lower impact than empire if you do it right. I can afk/dock when my baby needs me, unlike L4 mission running. And it's only going to get better with the nano nerf.
So what we have is:
1. Empire for beginning and 2+ year old characters.
2. 0.0 for 3 month to 2 year olds
3. Lowsec hard mode fight club for the jaded oldbies
I see nothing wrong with this. Variety good. Monotonous uniform tedium bad.
I can pretty much agree with all of that. I have noticed more losec and 0.0 corps using hisec for mission grinding lately. There are a lot of places in nulsec that are profitable to live in, and then again, there are a lot more that don't produce enough isk to keep a corp alive. Thus the 'hisec mission grind' for isk.
I kinda wish it was back to the old 'losec for 6 month to 2 year players, and corporations just starting and getting their feet under them, taking part in small-scale PvP before moving into 0.0' days. Looks like the average player mentality has changed, though.
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 21:26:00 -
[291]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/08/2008 21:27:58
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Attacking a completely distorted, weaker version of someone's argument is a strawman.
How's "go to SiSi for PvP then" a weak or distorted version of "you go to 0.0/lowsec for the PvP only" argument I see thrown around so much ?
It proves that you DON'T go to 0.0/lowsec ONLY for the PvP, the PvP is either a bonus (for those who enjoy it) or a risk to be taken into account (for those who don't).
But I'll let Clair Bear answer it in more detail
Originally by: Clair Bear
Fact: the only damage you can do to another player in eve is economic.
So yes, ISK production and consumption matter if you're playing for a goal.
There you go.
And the goal is obviously NOT "just PvP", it's "PvP to hurt your enemy financially".
Kinda' rendered worthless if your enemy has easy means to recover from that financial loss.
And wether it's HIM who actually recovers with a L4 highsec mission-runner alt, or it's by selling GTCs for loads of ISK to L4 highsec mission-runners, there's no difference.
The main reason GTCs are so expensive in ISK (or, if you put it that way, ISK so cheap) is that ISK has lost value, EVEN IF all T1 goods are being sustained at a low, low price by the very same people who sell you ISK for GTCs.
Make ISK earning harder, GTC prices fall, enemies get less ISK for their cash (or less ISK period), and what do you know, T1 prices might actually come up to the point where losing an unrigged T1 ship would NOT be quite so trivial anymore.
And... wow, what do you know, suicide-ganking AUTOMATICALLY also becomes less profitable in the process too, without having to remove insurance nor buff CONCORD.
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 21:38:00 -
[292]
For many players, and I assume it's more of a trend with older players, it's hard to imaging EvE without PvP. I just don't see hisec space as 'PvE land'. The whole conception of using an NPC corp isn't new, but it's still kind of alien to me.
I don't leave hisec to fight other players. It happens from one end of the universe to the other. I have some police who patrol and kinda protect me in hisec, and I try and keep a low profile and not tick off any other corps or give them a reason to wardec me.
Going into losec is like going into the bad part of town. Not that crime don't happen in the good part, and not that you can't survive perfectly fine in the bad part ... it's just who you know, and whether your looking like a mark or not.
But somehow it's gotten much more ... divided, I guess, over the last year or so. Now we have a ton of hisec players (or at least it seems that way on the boards) who believe the game is two different types of play, and that they should be immune from PvP combat in hisec. This just seems wrong to me. And then you find that these guys are using NPC corps to do just that.
I mean, why play EvE at all? If you are content with just restricting yourself to a small portion of space, repeatedly doing the same missions ... I guess that's your choice. But aren't there games that would suit you better?
My beef isn't with these players, though I don't understand why they would play a game if they are really wanting to play something different. But whatever. The reason I advocate changing missions is mainly due to hisec becoming overcrowded because it has become the place to grind isk, for those of us who don't have one of the few good nulsec locations or who want to do missions but can't find any corps who work in losec anylonger.
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
mishkof
Caldari
Finis Lumen
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 21:38:00 -
[293]
Edited by: mishkof on 09/08/2008 21:39:04
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: mishkof
I have seen enough whines about to much money being made in hisec but let me ask, how do you assess risk? How can you say for certain that losec and 0.0 are too risky for their payment?
Press F10. Color stars by pilots online. At various times of the day. For a long time. Notice the pattern. There's all the proof you need.
I was thinking of something other then the noob response "ewww ships have been killed we are all gonna die"
But after looking at all of your previous responses I was setting myself up for disappointment it seems.
I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response.
[]hate me
[]troll me
[]smack me |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 21:42:00 -
[294]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/08/2008 21:45:40
Originally by: mishkof
Originally by: Akita T
Press F10. Color stars by pilots online. At various times of the day. For a long time. Notice the pattern. There's all the proof you need.
I was thinking of something other then the noob response "ewww ships have been killed we are all gonna die"
But after looking at all of your previous responses I was setting myself up for disappointment it seems.
Pilots ONLINE. Not deaths in last 1h/24h. There's a tiny little difference.
Most deaths are in Jita anyway
Originally by: Ruze
mainly due to hisec becoming overcrowded because it has become the place to grind isk
The smoking gun indeed. Highsec is too crowded BECAUSE it offers the best risk to reward ratio.
Of course, into "reward" you also figure time spent doing it, and I shouldn't probably use "risk" but rather say "cost" instead (include expected losses).
So, it's more like "highsec offers the best cost/benefit ratio".
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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mishkof
Caldari
Finis Lumen
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 21:54:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
Quoting someone who wants honour points for kills.
Quoting someone who can't ****ing read my posts.
I read it. I have seen the tangable benefits of PVP. Mainly control of space with valuable resources in it. What else would you want from PVP?
I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response.
[]hate me
[]troll me
[]smack me |
mishkof
Caldari
Finis Lumen
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 21:55:00 -
[296]
Edited by: mishkof on 09/08/2008 21:56:27
Originally by: Akita T
Press F10. Color stars by pilots online. At various times of the day. For a long time. Notice the pattern. There's all the proof you need.
Originally by: mishkof
I was thinking of something other then the noob response "ewww ships have been killed we are all gonna die"
But after looking at all of your previous responses I was setting myself up for disappointment it seems.
Originally by: Akita T
Pilots ONLINE. Not deaths in last 1h/24h. There's a tiny little difference.
Most deaths are in Jita anyway
SO again, how does that help you assess the risk versus reward for 0.0 and losec to be able to compare it to hisec level 4 missions?
I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response.
[]hate me
[]troll me
[]smack me |
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 21:56:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Akita T
So, it's more like "highsec offers the best cost/benefit ratio".
That's a damn good way of putting it. It makes a lot more sense then the 'risk vs. reward' argument.
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 21:56:00 -
[298]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/08/2008 22:06:05
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Akita T
So, it's more like "highsec offers the best cost/benefit ratio".
That's a damn good way of putting it. It makes a lot more sense then the 'risk vs. reward' argument.
Same idea, different (more clear//descriptive) words.
Originally by: mishkof
I read it. I have seen the tangable benefits of PVP. Mainly control of space with valuable resources in it. What else would you want from PVP?
So, the question is... PER CHARACTER, is the cost (time spent, ISK spent) of controlling 0.0 space worth the benefits compared to highsec L4 mission-running ?
The only thing limiting your income level is boredom and lag for L4 missions.
Originally by: mishkof
SO again, how does that [F10 population map] help you assess the risk versus reward for 0.0 and losec to be able to compare it to hisec level 4 missions?
Individual people MAY be smart or dumb, but LARGE groups of people are generally much smarter than any individual in them.
The population distribution, in the long enough run, at an equilibrium point, is (almost) directly proportional with benefits/costs ratios among areas.
Lightly populated areas have either too low benefits or too high costs. Heavily populated areas have either too high benefits or too low costs. It IS as simple as that.
And when you have 80% of the population living in 20% of the space, you can no longer blame it on "fear of PvP" alone... to some degree, yes... but PvP losses are included in "costs", and even if the distribution is not quite linear, it's still a good indicator of areas where the game is LACKING something.
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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mishkof
Caldari
Finis Lumen
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 22:16:00 -
[299]
Edited by: mishkof on 09/08/2008 22:22:17
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 09/08/2008 21:59:57
Originally by: mishkof
I read it. I have seen the tangable benefits of PVP. Mainly control of space with valuable resources in it. What else would you want from PVP?
So, the question is... PER CHARACTER, is the cost (time spent, ISK spent) of controlling 0.0 space worth the benefits compared to highsec L4 mission-running ?
The only thing limiting your income level is boredom and lag for L4 missions.
Originally by: mishkof
SO again, how does that help you assess the risk versus reward for 0.0 and losec to be able to compare it to hisec level 4 missions?
Individual people MAY be smart or dumb, but LARGE groups of people are generally much smarter than any individual in them.
The population distribution, in the long enough run, at an equilibrium point, is almost directly proportional with benefits/costs ratios among areas.
Lightly populated areas have either too low benefits or too high costs. Heavily populated areas have either too high benefits or too low costs. It IS as simple as that.
The reason that empire space has more people is the mechanics of the game. 0.0 stations can be regulated by the people who own them. That is why not every noob and alt can reside in 0.0. That is why there is such a large population disparity.
You cannot just decide to go to 0.0 in a lot of cases. There is a lot of front end loaded work that it takes to settle in successfuly. It isnt until these dues are paid that you can fully reap the rewards. The high start up costs is what keeps people out, because in a lot of cases the only way to gather the cash to intially settle in is...level 4 missions. That is the way it should be IMO.
Edit - Per character after intial startup cost and effort 0.0 is far more beneficial in my experience. However losec needs to be buffed for sure.
I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 22:23:00 -
[300]
My preference is that, for those corps or players trying to move into 0.0, to get their start in losec, not hisec. That's how I think it should run, but obviously it don't and I'm no dev, so take it for what it's worth.
Getting that isk base up should be done in a semi-risky environment. Having that isk source in a place where your cost of living is nil (no replacing ships, no paying for protection, no having to pay to have items transported to your location) only seems to make hisec more imbalanced, to me.
So you want security? That's perfectly alright.
But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security. |
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