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Reasons that killing suicide ganking is bad.

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Schalac Caldari Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:43:00 - [1] Macros. We all see them, going out to a field filling their cargo and going back to station to drop off their load. 23 hours a day they operate, basically making mining for profit useless. Suicide ganking is the best way to deal with these. This includes fdlkjsf and fkwodoc that mine ice for the purpose of selling it for RMT purposes. AFK miners, not unlike macros, they sit an indy ship somewhere and check back every now and again to target new roids and go AFK. While not as damaging to the mining industry as macros in a hulk, it's still pulling in ore 23 hours a day. Suicide ganking is the best way to deal with these. NPC corp missioners. No chance to get war decced, making assloads of isk and being rewarded for very little risk. Suicide ganking is the best way to deal with these. Now I am all for the no insurance payout to those ships that concord kills, have been for a long time, but I also realize that suicide ganking is a necessary tactic. What bothers me is the change to sec status hits. To me it doesn't make sense to have a bigger decrease than there already is. A good couple hours of ganking and you are -2 easily. I know this because I have a few alts that all I use them for is a hit squad. They need to look at this mechanic a little more closely I believe before they implement it. And I will be suicide ganking ships on the test server to see just how fast over the live rule set you lose sec rating. Also seeing if in fact the concord reaction time is something to worry about.
hall monitor	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:43:00 - [2] No . Pants. Stop whining you're getting pants.
Timeto Die	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:44:00 - [3] They've done what now? ----------------------------------------------- You want soft toilet paper? Go play WoW. Eve is Hotel Bastardo. -----------------------------------------------
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:46:00 - [4] When QQ doesn't work, scare 'em with the macros bogeyman. Saw some guy try to use that one while arguing for a ninja salvage nerf the other day as well. Funny stuff. ___________________________________________
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:47:00 - [5] Yes! Ofcourse! I totally missed that! Suicide ganking was done on macro-miners only! Ohh, man, the times that I we suicide ganked all those macro-miners! And the laughs we had! And how rich we became suicide ganking all those macro-miners! Rolling in dough we were! No, wait! Wait a minute! We never actually suicide ganked those macro-miners at all. They all cloak and dock up the moment we jump into the system. As a matter of fact, this whole line of reasoning is totally untrue. *******s even. A big fat load of tosh in fact! -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:48:00 - [6] Indeed, killing suicide ganking would indeed be bad! Good think it's still possible. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Braaage eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:50:00 - [7] Originally by: Tarminic Indeed, killing suicide ganking would indeed be bad! Good think it's still possible. QFT Suicide ganking is not dead they just made it a challenge like it should be. It's far too easy to do with sod all consequence. -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, Character Generator & more
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:52:00 - [8] Quote: If you suicide gank any ship that isn't worth more than the ship you're about to lose, you're essentially a barking moron deserving of a painful reminder to play intelligently. What this guy said in another thread. As for Macros they are here to stay (unfortunately) and CCP is and always has been the only real defense against them. This change just got rid of the posers and amateurs and the "casual" lolssgank, that's all.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:59:00 - [9] Luckily for you there are enough macro haulers in low sec, kill them. And the killing macro argument is getting kinda old. Bumping afk miners out of range or just getting a hulk to deplete their roid is much easier. NPC corp people missioning is a problem how?
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:01:00 - [10] This changes nothing until the highsec miners learn to tank You're not afraid of the dark, are you?

Schalac Caldari Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Soporo Quote: If you suicide gank any ship that isn't worth more than the ship you're about to lose, you're essentially a barking moron deserving of a painful reminder to play intelligently. What this guy said in another thread. As for Macros they are here to stay (unfortunately) and CCP is and always has been the only real defense against them. This change just got rid of the posers and amateurs and the "casual" lolssgank, that's all. There are lots of ships that cost more than a caracal. And there are lots of people that actively hunt macro miners and suicide them every chance they get. And with the increased concord response time it does seem that CCP is trying to get rid of one of the mechanics that I have loved and used since I started playing the game.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:04:00 - [12] The OP's logic is flawed. You don't avoid fixing a problem because it might make another problem worse. You fix them both. CCP, make it so that you can't fly any T2 ships or anything larger than a Cruiser while you are in a NPC corp. Then if Macroers want to mine in Hulks, they have to be in a war-decable private corp. End of problem.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:04:00 - [13] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 06/08/2008 19:05:53 Originally by: Schalac Macros. We all see them, going out to a field filling their cargo and going back to station to drop off their load. 23 hours a day they operate, basically making mining for profit useless. Suicide ganking is the best way to deal with these. This includes fdlkjsf and fkwodoc that mine ice for the purpose of selling it for RMT purposes. AFK miners, not unlike macros, they sit an indy ship somewhere and check back every now and again to target new roids and go AFK. While not as damaging to the mining industry as macros in a hulk, it's still pulling in ore 23 hours a day. Suicide ganking is the best way to deal with these. NPC corp missioners. No chance to get war decced, making assloads of isk and being rewarded for very little risk. Suicide ganking is the best way to deal with these. Now I am all for the no insurance payout to those ships that concord kills, have been for a long time, but I also realize that suicide ganking is a necessary tactic. What bothers me is the change to sec status hits. To me it doesn't make sense to have a bigger decrease than there already is. A good couple hours of ganking and you are -2 easily. I know this because I have a few alts that all I use them for is a hit squad. They need to look at this mechanic a little more closely I believe before they implement it. And I will be suicide ganking ships on the test server to see just how fast over the live rule set you lose sec rating. Also seeing if in fact the concord reaction time is something to worry about. 1) You can petition macros and get them banned, which is better than suiciding them. 2) AFK indies don't really do much. 3) I agree with the NPC corp missioners, but I think that would be better solved with a nerf to hisec missioning than suicide ganking. Quote: CCP, make it so that you can't fly any T2 ships or anything larger than a Cruiser while you are in a NPC corp. I'd rather just split up the NPC corps. You can still be in an NPC corp, but not the noobcorp, and fly larger ships...but the NPC corp can be wardecced.
Joey Meow	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:06:00 - [14] What do you mean by "killing suicide ganking?" I have been gone for the last day or so and something else is getting nerfed? WTF? Some more information please.... Unless this is just baseless ranting and just confusing us good forum whoring people.
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:07:00 - [15] so... just cause of illegitimacy accounts.... who gets petitioned and GM investigate them... you gonna make the game lopesided towards gankers? (hell, even an industrial with 20+ mill worth of stuff is worth ganking ...all it takes is a destoryer.....and sec status gain is easy if you got a jump clone to 0.0 pie stations...) nice try... but yeah, farmer/macros, you petition them. Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Schalac Caldari Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:08:00 - [16] Originally by: Furb Killer Luckily for you there are enough macro haulers in low sec, kill them. And the killing macro argument is getting kinda old. Bumping afk miners out of range or just getting a hulk to deplete their roid is much easier. NPC corp people missioning is a problem how? The macro argument is getting old because CCP never does anything about it. Killing them and costing them isk is the best way to deal with them. Hulks are un-insurable and if you kill enough of their hulks they start to hurt. Bumping is nothing. As soon as they realize they have been bumped they are right back at it. NPC corp missioners can do basically what ever they want and you can't kill them legally. Some times people deserve to die and for these people suicidal caracals are the best way to deal with them.
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Joey Meow What do you mean by "killing suicide ganking?" I have been gone for the last day or so and something else is getting nerfed? WTF? Some more information please.... Unless this is just baseless ranting and just confusing us good forum whoring people. they are just nerfing insurance for concord kills... just raises the bar for ganking... so that now you cant gank everybody, their mother, their pets, the fleas on their pets.... you can still gank people... just that is gonna cost ya (unless you found a jucy target) instead of insurance paying for all your cost and more.. Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Schalac Hulks are un-insurable and if you kill enough of their hulks they start to hurt. ... and now Suicide Ganking is un-insurable and if suicide gankers do it enough they start to hurt.
Roku Kotaki Caldari Celestial Command Operations	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny This changes nothing until the highsec miners learn to tank Would you kindly give me advice on how to tank a Retriever. The last I checked, a Retriever has one mid and two low slots, so how do you propose to tank that? Proof that you can actually tank a mining barge or STFU.
Joey Meow	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Mika Meroko Originally by: Joey Meow What do you mean by "killing suicide ganking?" I have been gone for the last day or so and something else is getting nerfed? WTF? Some more information please.... Unless this is just baseless ranting and just confusing us good forum whoring people. they are just nerfing insurance for concord kills... just raises the bar for ganking... so that now you cant gank everybody, their mother, their pets, the fleas on their pets.... you can still gank people... just that is gonna cost ya (unless you found a jucy target) instead of insurance paying for all your cost and more.. Ok that makes sense to me. Removing Insurance on Suiciding should have been done ages ago, at least now some thought will go into killing people in Empire who are not at war.

Schalac Caldari Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:16:00 - [21] Originally by: Mika Meroko Originally by: Joey Meow What do you mean by "killing suicide ganking?" I have been gone for the last day or so and something else is getting nerfed? WTF? Some more information please.... Unless this is just baseless ranting and just confusing us good forum whoring people. they are just nerfing insurance for concord kills... just raises the bar for ganking... so that now you cant gank everybody, their mother, their pets, the fleas on their pets.... you can still gank people... just that is gonna cost ya (unless you found a jucy target) instead of insurance paying for all your cost and more.. Except the fact that rocket kestrels can still be used for minimal isk loss, if you have enough of them. What I am more concerned with is the upped concord response time and higher sec hits for it. Really do you believe that this is going to bring more people into a game that is already past the 5 year mark? No, it's just making one of the best free form PvP MMOs out there more restrictive.
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Schalac Originally by: Furb Killer Luckily for you there are enough macro haulers in low sec, kill them. And the killing macro argument is getting kinda old. Bumping afk miners out of range or just getting a hulk to deplete their roid is much easier. NPC corp people missioning is a problem how? The macro argument is getting old because CCP never does anything about it. Killing them and costing them isk is the best way to deal with them. Hulks are un-insurable and if you kill enough of their hulks they start to hurt. Bumping is nothing. As soon as they realize they have been bumped they are right back at it. NPC corp missioners can do basically what ever they want and you can't kill them legally. Some times people deserve to die and for these people suicidal caracals are the best way to deal with them. again... CCP does do things about it... they just dont tell people.. and that quite frankly, they dont need to tell you. and no, an industrial cost nothing.... and for people who steal accounts/hacks to take stuff... you arent gonna even put a dent into their operations.... and hulks are cheap now =P besides, most farmer's income is 0.0 ravens cloaking ratting.... you arent gonna dent their operation much by going after highsec ships.... is pocket money to them.... compare to what the farmers are making in 0.0. Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:21:00 - [23] Edited by: Mika Meroko on 06/08/2008 19:23:23 Originally by: Schalac Originally by: Mika Meroko Originally by: Joey Meow What do you mean by "killing suicide ganking?" I have been gone for the last day or so and something else is getting nerfed? WTF? Some more information please.... Unless this is just baseless ranting and just confusing us good forum whoring people. they are just nerfing insurance for concord kills... just raises the bar for ganking... so that now you cant gank everybody, their mother, their pets, the fleas on their pets.... you can still gank people... just that is gonna cost ya (unless you found a jucy target) instead of insurance paying for all your cost and more.. Except the fact that rocket kestrels can still be used for minimal isk loss, if you have enough of them. What I am more concerned with is the upped concord response time and higher sec hits for it. Really do you believe that this is going to bring more people into a game that is already past the 5 year mark? No, it's just making one of the best free form PvP MMOs out there more restrictive. yes, I honestly believe that is gonna bring more people in... hell, we are STILL growing... a month or so again (when AOC is released) a dev said that we are the 3rd biggest paid mmo out there.... and still growing.... and if you want to see what happens to true pvp mmos .... look at pirates of the burning seas... it just got its server merge cause the red circles are EVERYWHERE =P ... every newb and everyone got ganked.... Eve is fine, you can still gank people, this change only raise the bar... thats all. and if you think Eve is dying cause of this.... please... stop posting now.... edit: not to be mean, but .... we are talking about high sec, is not completely safe.. but at this point in time... hell, I made about 500 mill in the last 2 weeks ganking ships with dessies on my pie... which I spend 1 day raising sec status back to positive for... is too lopsided to the ganker, which is the minority tbh... even I feel guilty that a failed gank actually give me profit =P Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Schalac Caldari Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:24:00 - [24] But in 0.0 there is no need for a suicide squad because if you can catch them they are fair game. I would place money on the fact that high sec macks and hulks ice mining 23 hours a day probably pull in about the same as 0.0 ratters would. And the high sec miners have a far greater chance that their ship is going to last for as long as needed.
Shy Dragoon	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:27:00 - [25] hm... looks like the suicide gankers are the real carebears of eve. from no risk vs a lot of reward to some risk vs a lot of reward and they are crying all over the forums.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Straight Chillen the really problem with killing suicide ganking, is that it will destroy the industrial aspect of this game. You think the undercutting is cut-throat right now? just wait untill every producer can safely move all of his shit around, never leaving highsec, and never worrying about having to loose his shit. Mineral prices will be the first to plummet, from there mods and ship prices. Inflation will skyrocket and the value of isk will plummet. ... and the moon will be as sackcloth and the sky as a sea of blood. If suicide ganking even accounts for 10% of the economy I'd be bloody amazed. ___________________________________________
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Straight Chillen Originally by: Trojanman190 I see this as a suicide ganking boost. When carebears think they are safe they carry more shit in their cargo hold... increasing the consequences means less people will suicide gank meaning more people think they are safe meaning more expensive cargo afked around in turn resulting in more shit being dropped from the target the ganker does decide to asplode. The loss of insurance makes sense and so does the sec. None of it matters. You will still make a killing off of morons who think they are safe. qft. i bet hauling trips get longer, as people are gonna be bumping industrials around to keep em from jumping while they do the math to see if they're worth ganking or not. .... errrr, the professionals already got the item's cost down... takes 30 seconds to assess it =P hell, I know I can remember all the prices of T2 items..(since I sell them too..) is not that hard... Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Roku Kotaki Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny This changes nothing until the highsec miners learn to tank Would you kindly give me advice on how to tank a Retriever. The last I checked, a Retriever has one mid and two low slots, so how do you propose to tank that? Proof that you can actually tank a mining barge or STFU. You can fully insure a Retriever so as long as you don't have some exotic mod on it then getting suicide ganked will hurt you very little. Insurance is your Retrievers tank. As far as Hulks go you can fit one like this and tank even a full t2 fit gank mega with 5 ogre II for much longer than it takes for Concord to arrive even in a .5 system to blast them. Buffer Tank Hulk: Highs> 3x Strip Miner I Meds> 3x Invul Field II 1x Regolith Medium Shield Extender (or a II if you have max shield fitting skills and the 3% shield powergrid reduction hardwireing) Lows> 1x PDS II 1x MAPC Rigs 2x Core Defense Field Extender I Mines at about 80% of the yield of a T2 Strip and MLU II fitted Hulk but will lulz at anything less than a BS gank to take you out in the time it takes Concord to respond. Its also worthless as a 'for profit' gank even with platinum insured ships. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Kerfira	Posted - 2008.08.06 20:33:00 - [29] Using one flawed game mechanic to argue that another flawed game mechanic should stay doesn't work that well..... Address first one, then the other..... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Schalac Caldari Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2008.08.07 05:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Kerfira Using one flawed game mechanic to argue that another flawed game mechanic should stay doesn't work that well..... Address first one, then the other..... There is nothing flawed about suicide gank minus the insurance pay out. Remove it, problem solved. I am for no insurance of Concorded ships. What I am against is faster Concord spawns and the possible greater sec hits for doing so. This is yet another step towards a comic I saw in an old Computer Gaming World. My EVE, the reason I started playing and kept coming back was because you can kill anyone, anywhere, for what ever reason your heart desired. More and more you buff up safe zones, the more that vision of the game I like dissipates. For years I have believed that EVE was a place where I can immerse myself in the vast virgin territories of EVE where power is the Holy Grail and the ultimate aphrodisiac. Where I could conceive a new life without boundaries, where murder, plunder, betrayal, and delusions of grandeur will lead you to boundless glory or to the brink of ruin. The galaxy is yours to control if you have the brains, strength, and cunning to succeed. If that last paragraph sounds like a marketing guy wrote it, it probably was. Because those are the words that I bought the game for and they come from the box that EVE was sold in back in 2003-early 2004. More and more though it's getting further from those words.



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