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Hakera
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Posted - 2004.06.01 20:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Hakera on 01/06/2004 20:05:38
 Originally by: Mon Palae
- What happens if the last person to join the gang is the person with corp wars? Then none of the other gang mates are included in the freely attackable mode?
they are the second the new player with a war joins. Unless they aggress individually by themselves.
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Yes, it seems the whole point of the flagging system is to allow you to shoot back at someone's gang regardless if they shoot at you first without getting a sec hit to yourself or have CONCORD come kick your ass. At least this would be the case in many scenarios.
no, only if the opposition is at war with any of your gang members or one of your gang carries a criminal flag applicable to that player/corp.
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The way I read it is if anyone in your gang is at war (officially) with another corp then everyone in the gang is freely attackable by those warring corps.
correct
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1) If someone is in a gang where someone else in the gang is at war and the opposing warring corp comes by and attacks what happens if those not at war simply drop from the gang? Do they instantly become non-targets? If so there is HUGE possibilty for exploits here (missiles on their way to you while you were a legitimate target for instance but you drop from the gang before they arrive).
15min timer before the flag is removed.
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2) If someone (one person) in a gang attacks you and you return fire on just the person who shot do his gangmates get to freely attack you? Do all the gangmates in the attacker's gang become legitimate targets but they have to hold fire (if they wish to avoid a sec hit or CONCORD reprisals) till you attack them directly? Possible exploit again. Simply have an ALT in your gang initiate the attack to take the sec hit and let the group go to town on the target for 'free'.
the way I understand it, there is no more gang defence, if you shoot another player, you get flagged against him and his corp, your gangmates will be unable to help you without getting falgged themselves.
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3) Define better 'ownership' of items. Are jet cans owned? Are loot drops 'owned'? Is there a time limit (if applicable) to how long a loot can/jet can sits before it is fair game to anyone? Is opening a can (any can) a way to get flagged or do the items need to be damaged for flagging to occur?
I believe this applies to drones and ships only.
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#3 I can see real issues with and am of two minds on it. On the one side this helps finally give ore thieves a much deserved chance of getting killed. On the other you can see exploits written all over this (drop a jet can by a newb station and wait for some unsuspecting newb to go check it out and blast him when he gets flagged).
This does not cover jet cans afaik
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.06.01 21:28:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Bella Verde
What about people who just dont use a gang, and then use shield transfer modules etc on their friends? You cant shoot at them...
if you assist someone aggressing you become an eligible target to them.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.06.01 21:31:00 -
[3]
Oveur,
Should Tracking/Sensor links and ECM projectors not be counted as aiding as well as sheild/cap transfer arrays?
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.06.02 06:49:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mon Palae
Originally by: Kellyl
Quote:
oActivate an offensive module on a target will result in you being criminal flagged to everyone.
So if player A commits agrression at player B in empire space, Player A is crimanlly flagged to all players? Or just player B?
Or am i mistaken?
It would seem to everyone. Otherwise it is no different than now. Some attacks you today the game allows to to freely shoot back.
Seems to me though that missing criminal flagging on jet and loot cans is a HUGE oversight. Kestrel rapists need not gang with fellow gankers. They do their thing and their un-ganged buddy in a nearby hauler swoops in and scoops the loot. Unless your escort wants to lose their ship protecting your can there is nothing they can do but watch (and maybe gather what little they can). Granted, changes to missiles may put a stop to Kestrel ganks in Empire but the point still remains.
I love the new flagging changes and they are needed. I just don't think they go far enough is all without accounting for cans in some fashion (any type of can).
I am still unclear on one thing though:
AttackPerson-A in GangAttack-A attacks DefensePerson-B in GangDefense-B.
Do ALL members of GangAttack-A get a criminal flag? If so are they free to attack at this point just as if they were the one who initiated aggression?
If ALL of GangAttack-A is not flagged because one of their number attacked what happens when DefensePerson-B attacks AttackPerson-A? Does the rest of GangAttack-A get a 'free' attack on DefensePerson-B? Or even everyone in GangDefense-B?
If a whole gang gets flagged does CONCORD try to kick their asses too or just the aggression initiator?
There are other permutations but my head already hurts keeping track of it. Hopefully you get the questions.
gang defence will be removed with this patch, if you are attacked by players in a gang (who arte not at war with you), that is a single aggression per player against you and therefore a global flag will be placed on each aggressor.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.06.02 06:51:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Hakera on 02/06/2004 06:52:42
Oveur,
Some people on Eve-I brought up a good point,
what if you get 10 people with 3 war decs each who gang up, that gives them 30 corps as valid targets.
For eg, a merc corp or pirate corp wanting to attack everyone in an area could see who lives there and declare on all of them indivually and then gang up to get valid targets for everyone.
I know 30 corps should have a chance of fighting back and defending, but could be used in a nasty way.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.06.02 12:18:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Hakera on 02/06/2004 12:20:35
In retrospect, I am against the gang member/war bit. i would prefer gangs to be left out totally and no gang defence as that is already removed.
There just seems to be too many 'what ifs' with that part of the aggression system and scanner bugs.
Unless in the same grid, you have no idea who your war enemies are ganged with (especially empire wars) until you enter the grid, and then you start to get situations with people leaving the gangs and members not checking the flag combined with the usual scanner bugs with incorrect caching of player status on it (many times I get an outlaw flag on inncoent players) and the inevitable bugs with scanner refresh once a flag is gone.
For eg, if a player leaves a gang at war and is not at war himself, but stays in the grid, the battle ensues for 15mins, he loses his flag and someone shoots him (kiss goodbye to their ship)
There are just too many holes with that imo.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.06.03 12:18:00 -
[7]
Thanks for clearing that up Lickspittle, the peices are slowly coming together! 
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.06.08 23:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: sableye
will you get criminally flagged if someone gets in the way of your missle (by accident without you targetting them)?
yes, missle colllision rules have not changed.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
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