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What is a hi-sec level 4 agent worth

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Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:33:00 - [1] This question came up in another thread, and I started to do a back-of-an-envelope calculation. Let's say that an agent can serve 175 players at any one time. (Observed in Isinokka recently... a bit laggy, but perfectly managable) Each player can earn 25M an hour - some more, some less, but lets take that as a kind of average of the figures generally cited on the forum. 175x25x24 = 105 BILLION ISK PER DAY. That's 3.2 trillion ISK per month. 1 titan every 14 hours. A fully T2 fitted battleship every 130 seconds. For a single agent. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:33:00 - [2] This question came up in another thread, and I started to do a back-of-an-envelope calculation. Let's say that an agent can serve 175 players at any one time. (Observed in Isinokka recently... a bit laggy, but perfectly managable) Each player can earn 25M an hour - some more, some less, but lets take that as a kind of average of the figures generally cited on the forum. 175x25x24 = 105 BILLION ISK PER DAY. That's 3.2 trillion ISK per month. 1 titan every 14 hours. A fully T2 fitted battleship every 130 seconds. For a single agent. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:35:00 - [3] Anyone care to name a player-sov 0.0 resource that comes remotely close to matching that value? I'd guess that it would take close to a region's worth of ratting to match that value. before, of course, we take the cost and time of acquiring and securing that region into account. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:35:00 - [4] Anyone care to name a player-sov 0.0 resource that comes remotely close to matching that value? I'd guess that it would take close to a region's worth of ratting to match that value. before, of course, we take the cost and time of acquiring and securing that region into account. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Serra Hershey Crete Carrier Corp.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:40:00 - [5] Your plan is greatly flawed. A.) The server is only up 23 hours a day. B.) No one is gonna mission 23 hours a day. C.) You can't build a titan in 14 hours, Therefore I don't believe that.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:40:00 - [6] Awesome. Though, you might want to make some change, maybe have it amount to a 23-hour day? I know, I know ... but someone is going to try to use that little slight to underhand a very accurate argument ;?j So you want security? That's perfectly alright. But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:40:00 - [7] 25mil an hour just in an agent's reward payout? I highly doubt that. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Serra Hershey Crete Carrier Corp.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:40:00 - [8] Your plan is greatly flawed. A.) The server is only up 23 hours a day. B.) No one is gonna mission 23 hours a day. C.) You can't build a titan in 14 hours, Therefore I don't believe that.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:40:00 - [9] Awesome. Though, you might want to make some change, maybe have it amount to a 23-hour day? I know, I know ... but someone is going to try to use that little slight to underhand a very accurate argument ;?j So you want security? That's perfectly alright. But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:40:00 - [10] 25mil an hour just in an agent's reward payout? I highly doubt that. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.

Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:41:00 - [11] Wow. Posted right before I did. Who would have thought that someone would come along and post the EXACT thing that I was just warning off, at the same moment? Weird. So you want security? That's perfectly alright. But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:41:00 - [12] Wow. Posted right before I did. Who would have thought that someone would come along and post the EXACT thing that I was just warning off, at the same moment? Weird. So you want security? That's perfectly alright. But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:43:00 - [13] Originally by: Serra Hershey Your plan is greatly flawed. A.) The server is only up 23 hours a day. B.) No one is gonna mission 23 hours a day. C.) You can't build a titan in 14 hours, Therefore I don't believe that. For a, you are correct. For b, you are wrong. Many players, be they through macro's or maybe just plain persistance, mission for 23 hours a day straight. For c, I think he meant the COST of building a titan. Let him make it clear, but I think that his intent was that you could pay the overarching cost of having one built every 14 hours. I'm sure he felt that this little fact was obvious, but I guess it's not. So you want security? That's perfectly alright. But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Serra Hershey Your plan is greatly flawed. A.) The server is only up 23 hours a day. B.) No one is gonna mission 23 hours a day. C.) You can't build a titan in 14 hours, Therefore I don't believe that. For a, you are correct. For b, you are wrong. Many players, be they through macro's or maybe just plain persistance, mission for 23 hours a day straight. For c, I think he meant the COST of building a titan. Let him make it clear, but I think that his intent was that you could pay the overarching cost of having one built every 14 hours. I'm sure he felt that this little fact was obvious, but I guess it's not. So you want security? That's perfectly alright. But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Serra Hershey Your plan is greatly flawed. A.) The server is only up 23 hours a day. B.) No one is gonna mission 23 hours a day. C.) You can't build a titan in 14 hours, Therefore I don't believe that. A.) That changes the figure by less than 4% B.) No shit, sherlock, who said they did? I said 175 players AT ONCE. If they play for 6 hours a day, then that agent can serve 700 players. Doesn't change the ISK/hr potential. C.) Now you're being obtuse. I'm talking about ISK value, not production potential. Although it would be pretty interesting to calculate the potential value of the minerals from the rat loot. I'd bet that it would be enough to build a supercap every 2-3 days/ CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Serra Hershey Your plan is greatly flawed. A.) The server is only up 23 hours a day. B.) No one is gonna mission 23 hours a day. C.) You can't build a titan in 14 hours, Therefore I don't believe that. A.) That changes the figure by less than 4% B.) No shit, sherlock, who said they did? I said 175 players AT ONCE. If they play for 6 hours a day, then that agent can serve 700 players. Doesn't change the ISK/hr potential. C.) Now you're being obtuse. I'm talking about ISK value, not production potential. Although it would be pretty interesting to calculate the potential value of the minerals from the rat loot. I'd bet that it would be enough to build a supercap every 2-3 days/ CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Pithecanthropus 25mil an hour just in an agent's reward payout? I highly doubt that. So do I. You see you get ISK for killing the mission rats as well. Maybe you weren't aware. Also the LP have value, as does the salvage, the loot, the minerals. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Pithecanthropus 25mil an hour just in an agent's reward payout? I highly doubt that. So do I. You see you get ISK for killing the mission rats as well. Maybe you weren't aware. Also the LP have value, as does the salvage, the loot, the minerals. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Serra Hershey Crete Carrier Corp.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Serra Hershey Your plan is greatly flawed. A.) The server is only up 23 hours a day. B.) No one is gonna mission 23 hours a day. C.) You can't build a titan in 14 hours, Therefore I don't believe that. For a, you are correct. For b, you are wrong. Many players, be they through macro's or maybe just plain persistance, mission for 23 hours a day straight. For c, I think he meant the COST of building a titan. Let him make it clear, but I think that his intent was that you could pay the overarching cost of having one built every 14 hours. I'm sure he felt that this little fact was obvious, but I guess it's not. A Normal person isn't gonna mission 23 hours a day.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Serra Hershey Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Serra Hershey Your plan is greatly flawed. A.) The server is only up 23 hours a day. B.) No one is gonna mission 23 hours a day. C.) You can't build a titan in 14 hours, Therefore I don't believe that. For a, you are correct. For b, you are wrong. Many players, be they through macro's or maybe just plain persistance, mission for 23 hours a day straight. For c, I think he meant the COST of building a titan. Let him make it clear, but I think that his intent was that you could pay the overarching cost of having one built every 14 hours. I'm sure he felt that this little fact was obvious, but I guess it's not. A Normal person isn't gonna mission 23 hours a day. What part of "at any one time" was difficult for you to understand? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Pithecanthropus 25mil an hour just in an agent's reward payout? I highly doubt that. So do I. You see you get ISK for killing the mission rats as well. Maybe you weren't aware. Also the LP have value, as does the salvage, the loot, the minerals. i'm aware, but just because I can collect loots, salvage, refine... that in no way is related to the agent who hired me for a specific job. His value is what he rewards per mission... not what I acquire myself from doing the mission. If you want to make it relevant as to how much that agent is really handing out... that's the only true form to show. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Stinky McPoopyPants Minmatar Blood Association of Dragon	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:52:00 - [22] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Serra Hershey Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Serra Hershey Your plan is greatly flawed. A.) The server is only up 23 hours a day. B.) No one is gonna mission 23 hours a day. C.) You can't build a titan in 14 hours, Therefore I don't believe that. For a, you are correct. For b, you are wrong. Many players, be they through macro's or maybe just plain persistance, mission for 23 hours a day straight. For c, I think he meant the COST of building a titan. Let him make it clear, but I think that his intent was that you could pay the overarching cost of having one built every 14 hours. I'm sure he felt that this little fact was obvious, but I guess it's not. A Normal person isn't gonna mission 23 hours a day. What part of "at any one time" was difficult for you to understand? how can you run 175 clients on one pc? how much ram does your computer have? i can only run 2 or 3 max at time
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:53:00 - [23] Just limit the number of missions a person can run with a single agent per day. Limit it to one for all I care. Problem fixed? People will still be making a lot of ISK per day if they really do mission for many hours at a stretch (ONE level 4 is about all I have patience for at a given time unless it's a really easy one), but all that flying around to go to different agents will cut into their ISK-per-hour amount.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Pithecanthropus Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Pithecanthropus 25mil an hour just in an agent's reward payout? I highly doubt that. So do I. You see you get ISK for killing the mission rats as well. Maybe you weren't aware. Also the LP have value, as does the salvage, the loot, the minerals. i'm aware, but just because I can collect loots, salvage, refine... that in no way is related to the agent who hired me for a specific job. His value is what he rewards per mission... not what I acquire myself from doing the mission. If you want to make it relevant as to how much that agent is really handing out... that's the only true form to show. Seriously, are you actually putting this forward as an argument? OK in that case, all player sov systems are worth zero ISK, in which case even a -Q20 level 1 agent is worth infinitely more than the whole of player 0.0. So do you want to produce any more laughable nit-picky points, or do you want to address the issue I have raised? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:55:00 - [25] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Just limit the number of missions a person can run with a single agent per day. Limit it to one for all I care. Problem fixed? People will still be making a lot of ISK per day if they really do mission for many hours at a stretch (ONE level 4 is about all I have patience for at a given time unless it's a really easy one), but all that flying around to go to different agents will cut into their ISK-per-hour amount. Agreed with that. Maybe make the limit higher in losec. If enough carebears get up in arms and move into losec, it'll become semi-secure, like it once was. So you want security? That's perfectly alright. But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:56:00 - [26] Originally by: Stinky Mc**yPants Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Serra Hershey Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Serra Hershey Your plan is greatly flawed. A.) The server is only up 23 hours a day. B.) No one is gonna mission 23 hours a day. C.) You can't build a titan in 14 hours, Therefore I don't believe that. For a, you are correct. For b, you are wrong. Many players, be they through macro's or maybe just plain persistance, mission for 23 hours a day straight. For c, I think he meant the COST of building a titan. Let him make it clear, but I think that his intent was that you could pay the overarching cost of having one built every 14 hours. I'm sure he felt that this little fact was obvious, but I guess it's not. A Normal person isn't gonna mission 23 hours a day. What part of "at any one time" was difficult for you to understand? how can you run 175 clients on one pc? how much ram does your computer have? i can only run 2 or 3 max at time I realise that reading doesn't come easily to some people such as your self, but I'm fairly sure that my post specified 175 players. Keep looking until you spot why your trolling makes you look silly. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Just limit the number of missions a person can run with a single agent per day. Limit it to one for all I care. Problem fixed? People will still be making a lot of ISK per day if they really do mission for many hours at a stretch (ONE level 4 is about all I have patience for at a given time unless it's a really easy one), but all that flying around to go to different agents will cut into their ISK-per-hour amount. I worked with a guy who played WoW (failure), and they have a limit on daily "quests". I find that stupid...but yet...I'm conflicted.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Malcanis Seriously, are you actually putting this forward as an argument? OK in that case, all player sov systems are worth zero ISK, in which case even a -Q20 level 1 agent is worth infinitely more than the whole of player 0.0. So do you want to produce any more laughable nit-picky points, or do you want to address the issue I have raised? No, I proved my point your idea is flawed. And quite frankly, I have no idea what a player sov system is doing in the argument, and how it relates to what an agent pays out. you're off the path my friend. get back on track with me... here. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
mishkof Caldari Finis Lumen	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:00:00 - [29] So how many hours a day do you run missions, and how much do you make? I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me
Slaver Hatastus	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Malcanis [So do you want to produce any more laughable nit-picky points, or do you want to address the issue I have raised? wait...what IS your "issue"? are you looking for a pat on the back for your prowess at back-of-envelope calculations, or is there something of note here? great, so each agent - assuming 175 is a fair number, i have no idea - can supply x amount of ISK per hour - so what? what does it even matter what a L4 agent is worth, unless we're talking about moving L4 agents to low-sec only to cut down on high-sec earnings.



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