| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Morcam
   |
Posted - 2008.08.08 04:06:00 -
[151]
 Originally by: Amateratsu
Edited by: Amateratsu on 08/08/2008 04:02:47
Name me 1 level 4 mission that pays out 25m per hour?
The average level 4 mission pays between 5 - 10m in reward and bountys.
You cannot include loot, salvage, lp as they do not inject new isk into the game, the isk comes from other players trading in those resources.
So where the hell are all you pvp's getting this 25m + per hoyr from?
Not even the Extravaganza's pay much above 10 - 15m...
Unless your running them in a group or pimped out officer fitted faction ship that can turn over 3 - 4 level 4s an hour....
Your figure of 25+m an hour is highly over exageratted
So, loot, salvage, and lp are worth nothing? Yes, you can include them. He, nor anyone else in this thread has mentioned new isk being injected into the economy. The injection of isk does not mean anything, the fact is that you still get all the isk from the loot, salvage, and lp in the end. You just blew him away on a totally irrelevant point.
|
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 05:57:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Amateratsu
Name me 1 level 4 mission that pays out 25m per hour?
Most of them do.
Quote:
You cannot include loot, salvage, lp as they do not inject new isk into the game, the isk comes from other players trading in those resources.
…and going back aaaaall the way to page one: by that logic, moon-mining, T2 manufacturing and all that has a payout of zero, which is a lot less than the supposedly 5-10M/h of missions.
I earn 15M/h doing L4s in a battlecruiser, and every mission runner I say that too tell me that I'm giving up huge wads of cash because it's too slow… and I don't even include the LP in those 15M. So I'd say 25M/h is entirely reasonable.
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 07:34:00 -
[153]
Let's do it again with a fresher mind after sleeping:
Malcais points:
1) a single agent can potentially give out a lot of isk, even "infinite" isk
2) a single system in high sec can support a very large number of players up to the point of node collapse
3) that is not possible in low sec/0.0 (this is not one of Malcais points but more some of the other posters in the thread)
4) agents are an almost infinitely scalable resource, all other resources are finite
5) all the above is bad for the game
Fair sum up?
Replies:
1) Sure. I strongly disagree with some of Malcais numbers as the are based on several doubtful assumptions (all the people in the high sec system are doing missions, all have a good efficiency, ecc.) but I have no problem to accept that the agents in the busiest system are giving out between Bounties, rewards, salvage and LP about 50 billions/day.
On the flip side this kind of return (50 billion/day) is possible because the system has about 100 persons running missions at every hour of the day, or if you prefer 2.300 man/hours of missioning every day, all done in level 4 combat missions.
2) Sure again. Even system without agents can do that if they are trade or manufacturing hubs.
3) Maybe. From what I get no one has ever attempted to bring the same numbers of players in a low sec/0.0 missioning hub to keep it. 175 players, with an average playing time of 4 hours, mean above 1.000 different players in one day. A good sized alliance in a single system. What I have seen were some alliance controlling a low sec mission hubs with a 20-30 player presence around the clock.
4) true again. So long as the server can manage the number of players present in a system the agent is infinitely scalable.
The same is true for trade, as it will increase in direct proportion to the number of players, so it will keep up to a potentially infinite number of player. No other resource can do that.
5) Here is the crux point. Malcanis seem to say "it is bad for the game" ("seem to" added as he never say it explicitly, he say that it is wrong, not exactly the same thing). No explanation why, it simply is bad.
So why it is bad? From Malcais posts and other comments, essentially because it is infinitely scalable to the total number of players, while other resources aren't.
Malcais and others aren't negating that a single individual in 0.0 can get more than a player doing missions, what they say is that it can't be scaled up to the level possible with missions. And that is true.
So it is bad because it can be stretched to accept any number of players. If you include all high sec systems populating them to this level, something like 500K characters can live this way (not all the systems have level 4 agents).
Null sec, with a sustainable population of maybe 3 people at the same time (so using the same average as above, i.e. 4 hours of play every day, so about 17 players in 1 day) can sustain a bit more than 50K players in all 0.0, about 1/10th of the high sec potential population in about x2 the space.
I think this is a fair sum up of the statements in this thread.
What I fail to see is why this is bad. Where you want the players to live? All in 0.0 playing downtown Manhattan and trying to get some elbow space there?
Or you feel that the player number is too high and that ruin your game?
You really want all the 0.0 system to be capable of supporting 100 players at the same time?
So explain what you want to accomplish pointing this fact and why it is bad that a system in high sec can support 100 players while a system in 0.0 can't.
Try to think what a even distribution of the 25K players normally logged in would mean:
5 players in every system.
That would make 0.0 a busy street not the wilderness.
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
|
Marshall Zhukov
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 07:51:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Marshall Zhukov on 08/08/2008 07:52:05
You dont make that much money from level 4 agents... you can make 20 mill/ hr but most people may do that for a few hours and stop. Nobody that is in their right mind missions for 23 hour a day and many take breaks or kill time in the station/do other things.
Also there are only a few lvl 4s that pay out 20-30 mill most are around 10 mill per mission.
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 08:02:00 -
[155]
Another point not added for the character limit:
Malcais post treat the earning potential of a single high sec system and of the mission runners in it as single unity, like they were a single Alliance, earning 50 billion isk from a single system.
In reality they are 1.000 single players, at most grouped in 10-20 mans corporations, not a single uber alliance controlling a large isk faucet. No one can negate that resource to other players (at least in high sec) and there are players making a living only because that concentration of mission runners exist (salvage thieves, suicide gankers targeting faction fitted ships, traders).
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
|
TrulyKosh
Gallente
Solo for UNCLE
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 08:08:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Malcanis
This question came up in another thread, and I started to do a back-of-an-envelope calculation.
Let's say that an agent can serve 175 players at any one time. (Observed in Isinokka recently... a bit laggy, but perfectly managable)
Each player can earn 25M an hour - some more, some less, but lets take that as a kind of average of the figures generally cited on the forum.
175x25x24 = 105 BILLION ISK PER DAY.
That's 3.2 trillion ISK per month.
1 titan every 14 hours.
A fully T2 fitted battleship every 130 seconds.
For a
single
agent.
That is 175 players actively playing the game.
Let's compare it to 1 Dysprosium moon, which yield 212m/day, 6.3bn/month with 1 player logging in every 3 weeks to put fuel in the tower. 
I cannot confirm that the information is correct, but i found an offer somewhere on the web of someone claiming to sell complete moon scans for entire regions. He lists 14 Dysprosium moons for the Fountain region. That is 88bn/month just for dysprosium and just for one region, just assuming that all these moons are actually mined (d'oh). This is indeed income that is generated 24 hours/day even during extended server downtimes.
Agreed, 88bn is far less than the 3.2 trillion you calculated for 175 theoretical 23/7 mission runners. On the other hand, whose isk is more likely spent on buying all this dysprosium?
Not that you're doing it in your post, but I feel a complaint about a too big isk faucet there. This is just to show where much of the isk goes to.
|
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 08:52:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Marshall Zhukov
You dont make that much money from level 4 agents... you can make 20 mill/ hr but most people may do that for a few hours and stop. Nobody that is in their right mind missions for 23 hour a day and many take breaks or kill time in the station/do other things.
Doesn't matter – when one quits, someone else is there to take his place. The argument isn't about single players, but about collectives. Quote:
Also there are only a few lvl 4s that pay out 20-30 mill most are around 10 mill per mission.
…and you can do a couple of those low-paying missions per hour, which still brings the payout up to 20MISK/h or more.
|
Mr Abbadon
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:01:00 -
[158]
I dont know what uber agents or missions ships you are in to generate 25mill/hour. Thats just too high since 1 mission takes alot of time and even saving it with an alt that salvages and gets the loot. Then you have to refit your ship, change drones and ammo for the next mission.
Still mission reward and bonus at best is 2mill for both and you get about 5-9mill bounties. best missions for getting good isk is worlds collide and angel extravaganza but those also takes time..
And as many stated i dont think many are even close to doing missions 23hrs every day.
(Q18 Agent) |
Granmethedon III
We are Legend
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:07:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Mr Abbadon
I dont know what uber agents or missions ships you are in to generate 25mill/hour. Thats just too high since 1 mission takes alot of time and even saving it with an alt that salvages and gets the loot. Then you have to refit your ship, change drones and ammo for the next mission.
Still mission reward and bonus at best is 2mill for both and you get about 5-9mill bounties. best missions for getting good isk is worlds collide and angel extravaganza but those also takes time..
And as many stated i dont think many are even close to doing missions 23hrs every day.
(Q18 Agent)
Loot? Salvage?
As an example, you get one arby HML and that's about what, 14, 15 mill there and then? Even the crap stuff you refine and sell the ore.
25 mill an hour is not difficult from a lvl4 agent.
|
Mr Abbadon
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:12:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Mr Abbadon
I dont know what uber agents or missions ships you are in to generate 25mill/hour. Thats just too high since 1 mission takes alot of time and even saving it with an alt that salvages and gets the loot. Then you have to refit your ship, change drones and ammo for the next mission.
Still mission reward and bonus at best is 2mill for both and you get about 5-9mill bounties. best missions for getting good isk is worlds collide and angel extravaganza but those also takes time..
And as many stated i dont think many are even close to doing missions 23hrs every day.
(Q18 Agent)
Loot? Salvage?
As an example, you get one arby HML and that's about what, 14, 15 mill there and then? Even the crap stuff you refine and sell the ore.
25 mill an hour is not difficult from a lvl4 agent.
First mineral prices are shit, items refined dont give alot of mins....
And going thru the items you loot to see which to keep and which to refine takes also time. so maybe 25mill per hr but i must say you must be damn lucky with missions and alot of rats taking suicide. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:13:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Marshall Zhukov
You dont make that much money from level 4 agents... you can make 20 mill/ hr but most people may do that for a few hours and stop. Nobody that is in their right mind missions for 23 hour a day and many take breaks or kill time in the station/do other things.
Doesn't matter û when one quits, someone else is there to take his place. The argument isn't about single players, but about collectives. Quote:
Quote:
That is the point, it is not a collective, they are 1.000 individual players.
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
|
Mr Abbadon
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:16:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Marshall Zhukov
You dont make that much money from level 4 agents... you can make 20 mill/ hr but most people may do that for a few hours and stop. Nobody that is in their right mind missions for 23 hour a day and many take breaks or kill time in the station/do other things.
Doesn't matter û when one quits, someone else is there to take his place. The argument isn't about single players, but about collectives. Quote:
Quote:
That is the point, it is not a collective, they are 1.000 individual players.
if its the collective then they earn much more in 0.0 ratting and moon mining..
Going on about high sec mission runners is just pathetic, sound like pirates crying that that dont get the easy pickings. |
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:24:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Tippia on 08/08/2008 09:31:07
Originally by: Mr Abbadon
I dont know what uber agents or missions ships you are in to generate 25mill/hour.
If I can make 15M/h in a battlecruiser (before LP, using a Q18 in a 0.5 system), then 25 an hour in a BS shouldn't be hard – unless, of course, you're saying that all those who say that my BC is too slow for L4s are wrong.
Quote:
Still mission reward and bonus at best is 2mill for both and you get about 5-9mill bounties. best missions for getting good isk is worlds collide and angel extravaganza but those also takes time..
Last time I did AE, I made 50mil in 3.5h… that's 14M/h, and that's including the time it took to salvage the wrecks between each room. And again, that didn't include the LP, and was for a Q-3 agent in a .9 system.*
Quote:
And as many stated i dont think many are even close to doing missions 23hrs every day.
And as many have pointed out, that's irrelevant – when one player quits, another picks up the ball.
*edit: iirc, I got somewhere around 5000 LP for that mission due to non-existing skills, low quality and high security, which means I earned another 20M for a total of 70M over 3.5h or 20M/h.
|
Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:27:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Arachna
sooo almost read all the posts and noone is making real sense here, so what if you think high sec is more profitable then 0.0? here is a newsflash: HIGH SEC MISSIONS GET BORING,MINING VELD GETS BORING.. I cant imagine anyone that has played for a couple of years and still does missions in empire 23/7.. (except farmers ofc), you might aswell go play an offline spacegame like freelancer then.
What you do see is players who have an alt (almost everyone...Power of 2 anyone?) train it for pve/afk mining/afk hauling and get easy money when they need it with almost no risk . And voila you have money to do pvp in lowsec or 0.0. How can you be jealous of that? More isk = more ships = more fun!
And then you can stil make lotsa money in 0.0 doeing complexes/faction spawns and mining those nice roids with the exclusive help of a rorqual. And has anyone ever heard of trading to 0.0 and back? I really made billions back in the days just hauling t2mods/rigs/mins once in a while.
Cant really see understand you cannot make enough isk in this game (unless ur 2months old) and then go whine on the board because ur jealous that pve'rs in empire get 25mil/hour... 
It's really sad to see you post such a thread while I did see some very good posts from you malcanis, now it just seems "spamming until my account expires".
There's no sec hit for forum "griefing".
Yet.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:28:00 -
[165]
Originally by: iudex
Originally by: Malcanis
Anyone care to name a player-sov 0.0 resource that comes remotely close to matching that value? I'd guess that it would take close to a region's worth of ratting to match that value. before, of course, we take the cost and time of acquiring and securing that region into account.
Sure !
Gurista mission hub with multiple lvl 4 q 20 agents.
I don't know how many pilots are there, but it can support the same number, so let's go with 175 for a fair comparison.
Average isk/hour for a lvl 4 gurista missionrunner will be 100 mil (probably more, but let's take 100 as average).
175 x 100 x 23 = 402.500.000.000 isk / day.
Here you are.
Apparently you don't "get" player sov. 0.0.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:31:00 -
[166]
Amazing to see all this nit picking going on to try to cover the fact that what is presented in the OP proves the imbalance that is mission running. It should have been a higher priority fix than any of the others. If CCP are still on the ball, they will fix this by next patch.
|
Mr Abbadon
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:34:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: iudex
Originally by: Malcanis
Anyone care to name a player-sov 0.0 resource that comes remotely close to matching that value? I'd guess that it would take close to a region's worth of ratting to match that value. before, of course, we take the cost and time of acquiring and securing that region into account.
Sure !
Gurista mission hub with multiple lvl 4 q 20 agents.
I don't know how many pilots are there, but it can support the same number, so let's go with 175 for a fair comparison.
Average isk/hour for a lvl 4 gurista missionrunner will be 100 mil (probably more, but let's take 100 as average).
175 x 100 x 23 = 402.500.000.000 isk / day.
Here you are.
Apparently you don't "get" player sov. 0.0.
the collective does, i dont think many mission runners get alot of motherships due to mission agents :) |
Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:50:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Let's do it again with a fresher mind after sleeping:
Malcais points:
I think this is a fair sum up of the statements in this thread.
What I fail to see is why this is bad. Where you want the players to live? All in 0.0 playing downtown Manhattan and trying to get some elbow space there?
Or you feel that the player number is too high and that ruin your game?
You really want all the 0.0 system to be capable of supporting 100 players at the same time?
So explain what you want to accomplish pointing this fact and why it is bad that a system in high sec can support 100 players while a system in 0.0 can't.
Try to think what a even distribution of the 25K players normally logged in would mean:
5 players in every system.
That would make 0.0 a busy street not the wilderness.
You've badly distorted some of my arguments, and are outright wrong on a couple, but you have almost got the main point: that there are more people in empire than 0.0 because there are more resources in empire, more densely available, than in 0.0 - even before calculations of risk and resource density are applied. It sounds crazy, because it's counter to everything we're told about empire vs 0.0, but the numbers are right there.
In short: there either needs to be a lot more 0.0 space (and not 10M/hr -0.2 true-sec garbage), or else 0.0 systems need to be able to produce a lot more resources. eg: a huge boost in exploration site density or... I don't know. Both would be pretty nice.
We've all seen posts from players who say they'd like to get into 0.0 but it's "all already taken". The snappy "there's lots of unused 0.0" remarkers neglect to mention that the unused space is worse than running level 3 missions. Now we have some numerical information to support the "0.0 is too crowded" argument.
The secondary point is that the vast magnitude of ISK available to very low--risk, low effort methods distorts the game and ruins the theory of power balance. It also means that there's no real incentive to ever leave the comfort zone.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Granmethedon III
We are Legend
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:54:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Mr Abbadon
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Mr Abbadon
I dont know what uber agents or missions ships you are in to generate 25mill/hour. Thats just too high since 1 mission takes alot of time and even saving it with an alt that salvages and gets the loot. Then you have to refit your ship, change drones and ammo for the next mission.
Still mission reward and bonus at best is 2mill for both and you get about 5-9mill bounties. best missions for getting good isk is worlds collide and angel extravaganza but those also takes time..
And as many stated i dont think many are even close to doing missions 23hrs every day.
(Q18 Agent)
Loot? Salvage?
As an example, you get one arby HML and that's about what, 14, 15 mill there and then? Even the crap stuff you refine and sell the ore.
25 mill an hour is not difficult from a lvl4 agent.
First mineral prices are shit, items refined dont give alot of mins....
And going thru the items you loot to see which to keep and which to refine takes also time. so maybe 25mill per hr but i must say you must be damn lucky with missions and alot of rats taking suicide.
It takes about 20 seconds to spot the best named stuff in your hold.
As for the bit in bold... wtf?
|
Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:56:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Exlegion
Was going to ask some questions but Arrs Grazznic posted them already and no meaningful responses were given.
Still, someone ought to pass on the memo to the big alliances they're better off missioning in high sec.
Well yours certainly is.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Granmethedon III
We are Legend
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 10:15:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Boohoomoar
FACT.
Just saying it doesn't make it so.
I have to admit I've never seen something as mature as typing "fact" in capitals....
|
Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 10:17:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Malcanis on 08/08/2008 10:17:55
gah... forum script needs fixing even more than 0.0 vs hi-sec.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 10:18:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Boohoomoar
OP shows remarkable immaturity.
OP has his figures all wrong.
OP has his knickers in a twist.
OP is in fact a bitter troll.
OP should probably quit now.
There's nothing stopping the OP running these missions but he probably chooses not to because he thinks he is too cool.
Joining a 0.0 alliance is a choice the player makes.
Running lvl 4 missions is a choice the player makes.
OP is obviously upset because he doesn't like some changes being made to Eve and is trying to start a witch hunt and stir up as much shit as possible because he can't control CCPs decisions.
OP is no better than all the other little whiners.
FACT.
I run missions in hi-sec to make my ISK.
FACT.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Boohoomoar
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 10:27:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Boohoomoar
FACT.
Just saying it doesn't make it so.
I have to admit I've never seen something as mature as typing "fact" in capitals....
So Malcanis isn't bitter then?
So this isn't a childish attempt to **** off a lot of players/people because Malcanis is ****ed off with CCP?
You don't think Malcanis is acting like a spoilt child because CCP are making a changes to the game he doesn't like?
Do you think CCP will change lvl 4 missions rewards because bitter players with an axe to grind want other people to suffer because suicide ganking is harder and nano nerf means players will have to commit to a fight rather than run at the 1st sign of trouble.
I can only imagine the crying he would be doing if CCP nerfed the Falcon.
He is bitter.
He is trying to stir up shit.
and that's a FACT.
|
Malcanis
We are Legend
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 10:28:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Boohoomoar
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Boohoomoar
FACT.
Just saying it doesn't make it so.
I have to admit I've never seen something as mature as typing "fact" in capitals....
So Malcanis isn't bitter then?
So this isn't a childish attempt to **** off a lot of players/people because Malcanis is ****ed off with CCP?
You don't think Malcanis is acting like a spoilt child because CCP are making a changes to the game he doesn't like?
Do you think CCP will change lvl 4 missions rewards because bitter players with an axe to grind want other people to suffer because suicide ganking is harder and nano nerf means players will have to commit to a fight rather than run at the 1st sign of trouble.
I can only imagine the crying he would be doing if CCP nerfed the Falcon.
He is bitter.
He is trying to stir up shit.
and that's a FACT.
Said the shit-posting alt.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
McDonALTs
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 10:31:00 -
[176]
FACT:
0.0 moon mining can fund people to pvp forever.
0.0 CEO's with large mining networks make as much as 175 players running missions 24/7
Single agent is a falacy since its the mission. A single agent is like saying a single piece of trit makes a titan which is 70bil. A lot of agent missions lack bounties altogether. The 25mil/hour figure is mostly loot and LP, not bounty.
OP never did his maths FACT.
|
Boohoomoar
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 10:33:00 -
[177]
Tanks for answering my questions Malc.
Keep your stuff. I don't need it 'cos I make 125 billion a day from 1 lvl 4 agent.
|
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 10:36:00 -
[178]
Originally by: McDonALTs
A single agent is like saying a single piece of trit makes a titan which is 70bil.
No, it's more like saying that a single, well-stocked asteroid field makes a Titan.
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 10:37:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Malcanis
Edited by: Malcanis on 08/08/2008 09:57:06
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Let's do it again with a fresher mind after sleeping:
Malcais points:
I think this is a fair sum up of the statements in this thread.
What I fail to see is why this is bad. Where you want the players to live? All in 0.0 playing downtown Manhattan and trying to get some elbow space there?
Or you feel that the player number is too high and that ruin your game?
You really want all the 0.0 system to be capable of supporting 100 players at the same time?
So explain what you want to accomplish pointing this fact and why it is bad that a system in high sec can support 100 players while a system in 0.0 can't.
Try to think what a even distribution of the 25K players normally logged in would mean:
5 players in every system.
That would make 0.0 a busy street not the wilderness.
You've badly distorted some of my arguments, and are outright wrong on a couple, but you have almost got the main point: that there are more people in empire than 0.0 because there are more resources in empire, more densely available, than in 0.0 - even before calculations of are applied. It sounds crazy, because it's counter to everything we're told about empire vs 0.0, but the numbers are right there.
In short: there either needs to be a lot more 0.0 space (and not 10M/hr -0.2 true-sec garbage), or else 0.0 systems need to be able to produce a lot more resources. eg: a huge boost in exploration site density or... I don't know. Both would be pretty nice.
We've all seen posts from players who say they'd like to get into 0.0 but it's "all already taken". The snappy "there's lots of unused 0.0" remarkers neglect to mention that the unused space is worse than running level 3 missions. Now we have some numerical information to support the "0.0 is too crowded" argument.
The secondary point is that the vast magnitude of ISK available to very low--risk, low effort methods distorts the game and ruins the theory of power balance. It also means that there's no real incentive to ever leave the comfort zone.
Care to sum up in a fashion similar to what I did the point I distorted? To me it seem exactly what you are saying.
For your main points "because there are more resources in empire, more densely available, than in 0.0" and "It sounds crazy, because it's counter to everything we're told about empire vs 0.0, but the numbers are right there." I totally disagree with you and I think we will never get a agreement point.
It is pretty logic and normal that high sec has more resources available. It is the "city" and cities have always had more resources and have always been capable of supporting more people.
0.0 is the developing wilderness, where the few can get rick or get broken.
And 0.0 is still enough of that. I am a mediocre ratter but my last week average of ratting/hitting encounter locations has gotten me an average of 60 millions/hour.
Even when I rat for less than a hour I usually get from 20 millions/hour up and I am ratting in a pair of system with -0.18 and -0.32 true sec, nothing great.
I had to hide from hunters? sure.
It is pretty boring, more than missions? sure for ratting, exploration is more interesting
It give me more isk than missioning? Yes.
It is scalable for 100 players in system? no
I would like to see constantly 100 players in a 0.0 system? Absolutely no.
So add more 0.0, as much as it please you, maybe add some new high sec on the other end of a 0.0 streak of regions, a new empire, so that player pressure in high sec will decrease a little. But if you want to see EVE population to continue to grow the "umlimited" resources in high sec are needed.
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
|
Exlegion
New Light
Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 11:10:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Exlegion
Was going to ask some questions but Arrs Grazznic posted them already and no meaningful responses were given.
Still, someone ought to pass on the memo to the big alliances they're better off missioning in high sec.
Well yours certainly is.
Whoah! Wasn't expecting that. A swing at Hydra. Original :D. Would you care in answering the question as to why aren't alliances flocking to high sec space to farm missions? Or, you know. You can continue to derail your own thread.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |