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Slave Runner	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:53:00 - [1] Somewhere in 0.0 sec, an alliance has a system claimed with sov 3 so they can put up a jumpbridge endpoint. There is only one tower in the system. Some other alliance comes along and reinforces the tower. When it gets out, a fierce battle happens and in the end, the defenders are able to force the attackers to disengage. At this point, the tower has already received a bit of structure damage. Now comes the irony - the defenders actually lost. To completely rep the tower, it has to be put offline because no ship has a range bonus for hull reps so it can rep from outside the forcefield - and that resets the sov counter. Or I was just too dumb to manage to reset an active FF during my tests.
Joskken Inx PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:59:00 - [2] That's a very good point there, well worth getting in to. Thanks for bringing it up, I'd like to hear the answer on this.
Snow Banshee	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:04:00 - [3] Im no POS expert, but i always thought that the force field could be put off.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:11:00 - [4] The forcefield is deactivated until you set a password. Once it is active, there isn't really a way to clear the password to force the FF to shut down, just to set a new one.
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.08.08 13:22:00 - [5] You can get around this with just some small tower claiming sov when you offline the bigger tower to rep up I think. I'm no sov expert though.
Draahk Chimera Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.08.08 13:32:00 - [6] A perfect opportunity to buff the scimtar and oneiros. Giv'em hull rep bonuses.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.08 13:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Haffrage You can get around this with just some small tower claiming sov when you offline the bigger tower to rep up I think. I'm no sov expert though. that tower will have to be in place for a week aswell before it really counts - putting the gist back into logistics
Taram Caldar Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:18:00 - [8] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 08/08/2008 14:18:48 Well.... just my opinion... only having 1 tower in a system holding sov is foolish anyway... should always have at least a small in system in case something happens.... seen more alliances lose sov because a tower got pulled down or destroyed and it was the only thing holding sov. But yes, this does raise a larger issue that none of the logistics ships have hull rep range bonuses. You shouldn't have to offline a pos to repair it. (personally I hate POS warfare but this does seem to be a broken mechanic) .
Ydyp Ieva Caldari Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:29:00 - [9] Another solution is to adjust the shields so that you can lock and activate support modules (like remote repairs) inside the shields. Only not activating from inside to the outside. However a command ship running linking modules still give bonus to the people outside the shields. But that is a fully other discussion.
Taram Caldar Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:36:00 - [10] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 08/08/2008 14:36:21 Originally by: Ydyp Ieva Another solution is to adjust the shields so that you can lock and activate support modules (like remote repairs) inside the shields. Only not activating from inside to the outside. However a command ship running linking modules still give bonus to the people outside the shields. But that is a fully other discussion. Erm no... being able to repair from inside the shields would break POS warfare bigtime. (not that it isn't already broken... but it'd break it far worse.....) .
JanSVK	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:37:00 - [11] good point. Beside logistics, All carriers should get range bonuses for remote hull reppers.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.08.08 14:50:00 - [12] I don't know much about this, but could bumping up the range of Capital Remote Hull reps do the trick: give them a range of 20km instead of 15km?
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.08.08 15:45:00 - [13] Edited by: Mioelnir on 08/08/2008 15:51:49 Originally by: Haffrage You can get around this with just some small tower claiming sov when you offline the bigger tower to rep up I think. I'm no sov expert though. The small tower has to be online long enough for sov 3 itself, the sov level counters are per-tower. So yes, a second tower is ofc better, but there should be some ship that could hullrep a POS from outside the forcefield nevertheless. @Matalino: besides a bonused ship, giving small/med/large+capital modules the range for the respective towers would be a possibility too. Personally I'd prefer a bonused ship though.
Slave Runner	Posted - 2008.08.09 20:37:00 - [14] Interesting. Everyone in favour oO
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:53:00 - [15] a) holding sov with a single tower, is going to have huge drawbacks. b) You don't need to rep the hull of the tower itself, so you can do that later after you've got another tower able to hold sov 3. c) You're still right, ships should be getting a hull rep range bonus (carriers and logistics).
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:57:00 - [16] Originally by: Matalino I don't know much about this, but could bumping up the range of Capital Remote Hull reps do the trick: give them a range of 20km instead of 15km? 30km is the radius of a large POS shield 21km for a med 15km for a small
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:28:00 - [17] Since we all pretty much agree that while holding sov with a single tower isn't a very smart move, one should not be forced to have additional towers for the sake of repairing already deployed ones. There should be a mechanic apart from "more control towers". So, I took the liberty and bug reported it.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.08.14 15:24:00 - [18] Ok, the bug report came back with the info that not having to offline one's POS is not a bug correction, but a feature request and this topic should be moved to features and ideas discussion. So if a moderator sees this, please do so.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.08.19 08:57:00 - [19] Oh my, page 6 already, this way this seriously will not get noticed Keep the discussion alive \o/
Hesod Adee Militants of Xen	Posted - 2008.08.19 09:25:00 - [20] This is what happens when you don't build redundancy into your systems, you can't perform maintenance when you need to. /unsigned. Everything looks fine to me.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.19 10:12:00 - [21] Hull damage does not prevent pos tower from operating. Just rep the armor and shield and ignore that hull damage. It's rare tower that lives when it starts getting hull damage.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.08.19 10:37:00 - [22] - Relying on a single tower is ****ed. Check - Saving a tower with hull damage is a rare cornercase. Check That is agreed upon and noone disputes it. But regardless** of that, there should be a way to hull rep an online tower from outside of the forcefield. In essence, there should be a ship with range bonus. That is what this topic is about.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.19 12:03:00 - [23] Originally by: Mioelnir - Relying on a single tower is ****ed. Check - Saving a tower with hull damage is a rare cornercase. Check That is agreed upon and noone disputes it. But regardless** of that, there should be a way to hull rep an online tower from outside of the forcefield. In essence, there should be a ship with range bonus. That is what this topic is about. What's the range of capital remote hull repper? Would it reach large tower from outside shields ? If not then easiest solution would be increasing capital remote hull repper range enough to reach even large tower from outside of shields.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.08.19 14:24:00 - [24] Capital RHull reps have 15km range. They would need 35ish km to work on a large tower.

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