Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Solomon XI
Caldari Hoist The Colors.
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 09:35:00 -
[1]
CCP,
Presently the Arazu is the most ineffective of all Recon's. In fact, the bonus it gets to sensor dampeners is exactly that of the Celestis. It doesn't have any more DPS than the Celestis. It's sensor-dampening abilities are equal to that of the Celestis.
All it gets is a bonus to warp-disruptor range. However due to the ineffectiveness of the sensor-dampening in it's present form, the bonus to warp-disruptor is not enough to keep it from getting killed by any half-decent pilot.
Sensor dampening on the Arazu needs a significant increase to be in-line with the other force recons. Perhaps this:
+50% bonus to the effectiveness of sensor dampeners
+25% bonus per level to warp-disruptor range.
Sensor dampening needs to be able to knock ships down to a range where the Arazu/Lachesis can warp-scramble them safely from. As it stands, I sensor-dampen someone and warp-scramble them, I am still within their lock-on range in 80% of all cases.
Please look into the Arazu/Lachesis and sensor dampening as a whole. It severely needs a buff.
**Here's to hoping CCP reads this**
|
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 09:41:00 -
[2]
did you try new arazu with warp scramblers? Heated cheap factions have near 30km range,it wil lbe narfed soon i think.
|
Montmorency
No Nerdrage Blue Sun Trust
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 16:10:00 -
[3]
Arazu is a great ship.... needs no TLC
Montmorency CEO of No Nerdrage [NEERD] Head of Blue Sun Trust [BOOST] |
Malena Panic
Veto. Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 16:40:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl did you try new arazu with warp scramblers? Heated cheap factions have near 30km range,it wil lbe narfed soon i think.
It's a short range tackle boat that can't maneuver, tank or DPS, but will (briefly) enjoy infamy at the top of every primary list. Enjoy your suicide ship. ... |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 17:11:00 -
[5]
the gallente recons were ok already for picking off belt-ravens; those couldn't chase it down anyway. with the (faction) scram going 20km at lvl IV
anything usually targeting ~80km ends up below 18km with just 2 rigged dampeners and skills to IV (you'd need 4 damps to pull the same stunt with other recons and their ~140km)
and that's well within antimatter-rail range.
+25% disruption range, i can accept
yes, this force recon doesn't pwn either, but once you are able to dictate the 19km, you're worse than a falcon which, theoretically, can miss a cycle. - putting the gist back into logistics |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 18:31:00 -
[6]
Did someone miss the incoming warp disruptor boost?
|
Kira Novia
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 20:14:00 -
[7]
Exactly.
The Arazu has a serious flaw. It cannot dampen a target effectively. Plus the range on a war-disruptor is... too close to begin with.
The main issue with it though is the sensor dampeners. They need a buff. Specifically, the ships designed to use them (more so the Recons) need a significant buff.
|
Tes Quin
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 20:45:00 -
[8]
fist off i don't fly the gallente recons, but i have gallente cruisers trained at 5 so i can fly the celesetis.
the arazus description says it gets a bonus to warp disruptors, does that really include the scrams as well (anyone tested this)?
damps in general behave very strangely for their role to bring ppl near to the dampener, in that they have a very short range.
the dps of an arazu is around 210 at 35mk range (halfway reasonable combat range for this ship. i'd even go further as it's not meant to dish out damage, including 2 lights and 3 medium gallente t2 drones, in other words dps setup), every belt ratting lone raven can tank those 210 dps. if you remove the drones you get loltastic 81 dps.
that's fine since recons are e-war ships not dps machines, but currently gallente ewar is broken. the current issues of dampeners and their role on ewar ships is on the list for the next CSM meeting. -- ccp/isd, ty for the portrait |
Kil'Roy
Minmatar The Rat Patrol
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 21:29:00 -
[9]
Well, if it does have a bonus to scramblers, that should be removed before the speed nerf, otherwise it could put the Rapier out of business.
|
The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.09 21:44:00 -
[10]
Bonus works on Scrams to. Also Rapier has fare more Web Range that the Arazu has Scram Range -> Dualweb the same effect.
Problem is the Arazu canŠt realy use the Scrams because it canŠt damp Targets at this Ranges effecly(solo). You are in Range of most of the Medium Weapons like HMs, Puls Lasers, AKs with Falloffrigs and any long Range or Large Weapon. In a bigger Fight you will be primay anyway if the enemy noticed your fitting.
Dedicated Damp Ships should have a higher Damp Bonus stop a Target from shooting at them with 2 Damps or 1 at a larger Range, since you canŠt realy fit more than 3 effective(you need MWD, you need a Cap Booster(at least a small one) and a Point to be effective. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
|
Flawliss
Gallente Pilots of True Potential
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 04:31:00 -
[11]
The main problem of Dampener ships is the range a damp operates doesn't match its job description.
Dampeners scripted as we know has a choice of 2 jobs, Lowering target range or increasing targeting time.. however it is generally expected to do this job with a low optimal range.
Meanwhile an ECM, which if it does get a jam, can do so at an extreamly long range, it all feels very backwards to me, shouldnt Dampeners operate at longer ranges and ecm work at shorter, i'm not saying 200K should be an option for either EWAR.
However even if Both worked at an optimal of 100k it would be good enough for ECM i'd think, and a world of improvement for damps
After a change like this it would be easier to argue if damps dedicated ships really needed more damp strength, as their range would fix that, and to use the disruptor bonus that would be pilots choice, safer from damp range or a bit more dangerous scramming range.
|
El Mauru
Amarr Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 05:21:00 -
[12]
Edited by: El Mauru on 10/08/2008 05:21:31 Arazu is totally fine- just don't try to fit tech-2 stuff on it due to the cap they eat.
Its biggest flaw used to be the fact that with everything going a gajillion ms damps didn't really mean anything since you could just fly up to it and the damps would turn useless- it also doesn't really work all too swell with a nano-fit.
Awesome ship when combined with other e-war though and a decent inty-killer. Finally, it is the best tackler/prober combo ingame. :-P
I think after the speed-"NURF" it will do lots better, not only because it gets the bonus to scrambler-range.
-
|
Solomon XI
Caldari Hoist The Colors.
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 08:50:00 -
[13]
Well keep talking. I like where this is head. We have some good debate going on. Any idea's for improvement to said ship?
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 09:33:00 -
[14]
In order to fix the Arazu it needs to be given two more launcher slots and a +5% damage bonus per level to assault, heavy and heavy assault missile launchers.
This will do many things:
#1, missiles are capless, helping with that issue (which is a big one).
#2, missiles have range, and they don't lose DPS over range, so the Arazu can fight at much longer ranges and still do DPS.
#3, selectable damage type- this makes a *huge* difference in the effective DPS on target when 100% of your DPS is going against the targets weakest resist instead of it's highest.
#4, tracking- with no tracking issues for missiles, the Arazu is free to move around a bit more and not worry about losing DPS.
#5, +10mbit to it's drone bandwidth, +60m3 to it's dronebay. One more medium drone in the air, and the option for two full flights of different medium drones. Come on CCP, where is the 'drone versatility' you've been promising all the Gallente pilots?
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION
Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Dzajic
Gallente Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 10:50:00 -
[15]
Additional 2.5% per Recon skill level to Dampener strength, and maybe a bonus to dampener optimal OR falloff. Making it a solo combat ship for pwning ratting Ravens would have its fans, but Id rather have a racial Ewar that is working.
|
Karentaki
Gallente Maximum Yarrage
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 11:10:00 -
[16]
Fully supported - I have recently bought and trained for an Arazu, and it's an OK ship, but damps could do with a bit of a boost. ============= RE: The suicide nerf
Originally by: agent apple I believe I can safely speak for many of us when I say,
Dear Devs, Go Back to WOW
|
Eraggan Sadarr
Phoenix Tribe
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 17:49:00 -
[17]
I agree, the Arazu needs a look at its damp bonus. I trained for gallente recon before the damps nerf, but as i also fly falcon I saw no reason to fly it after the nerf. Now that is not balance.
Eve Market Scanner |
Karentaki
Gallente Maximum Yarrage
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 19:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Did someone miss the incoming warp disruptor boost?
What boost - that only affects warp SCRAMBLERS ============= RE: The suicide nerf
Originally by: agent apple I believe I can safely speak for many of us when I say,
Dear Devs, Go Back to WOW
|
Dzajic
Gallente Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 19:37:00 -
[19]
With 2 rigs, you can push optimal of RSDs to 63km. With mythical "all skills at V" of course. So, 60km, after that... they too become chance based. Optimal + falloff is 150km.
And the new scramblers. First, the speed nerf is so gamebreaking (I'm all for nanonerf, but not this kind of it) it is unlikely it will go true.
Second. WS II gets range of 18km, 21.5 with overheat. The oh so cheap and available domination or republic fleet warp scram has 22.5 net and 27 km range with overheat.
Atm, Huginn can web you from 40km without overheat or faction mods, with those, 78km.
Now, if Arazu isnt in solopwnmobile mode, and is working with gang/fleet, it needs to fit both RSDs and scrams in mids. (lol painters for Huginn as secondary ewar). Ok, you got your target pointed and reduced to his base speed, you or someone else has to web the target to reach effectivnes of a single current web from Huginn.
So to clearly say my point.
TQ now. Rapier and Huginn web you from 40 to 60km without overheat, with single web being 90%, aka, if you are not nanoed you are not moving.
If patch goes true, Arazu and Lachesis will be able to point you and turn off your MWD from less than 25km. Speed effect is ~80% web.
|
here'n'there
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 14:38:00 -
[20]
18-25km and 40km - you really don see the difference?
btw, this topic is about RSD, and i fully agree with Solomon XI. |
|
Asume Nosami
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 00:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: here'n'there 18-25km and 40km - you really don see the difference?
btw, this topic is about RSD, and i fully agree with Solomon XI.
Glad to know I am not the only person who see's a problem with the RSD's and the Recon's specifically meant to use them. So now that we agree they do need a buff... let's have some good idea's. How could you buff them? What *would* make them effective?
I want to get a good thread going about them for CCP to read. Kind of like the blaster thread.
I think RSD's need to have a 50% boost to their effectiveness (when scripted) as a start. Also I think the Recons should get an additional 5%-10% per level of the Recon skill to their effectiveness. With a minimum of 25% up to 50%. This would put them in line with the other *ewar* (see: Falcon).
Why can't I knock a Rokh down to 5K-10K lock-on range when he's a sniper that has a 250km range? Where-as the Falcon can pretty much permanently jam said Rokh because the Falcon is Moses and can part the red-****ing-sea?
Simple fix in my opinion:
Keep the current sensor dampener effectiveness for all ships not DESIGNED to use sensor-dampeners. Seems fair to me. However...
Presently the Celestis gets a bonus to dampener effectiveness. As does the Arazu/Lachesis. However that bonus is exactly the same. Doesn't seem right, does it?
On that note, what about making RSD-based-Recons (Arazu/Lachesis) a secondary bonus?
Keep the Celestis bonus to RSD's in-tact + give each Recon, an automatic 75% bonus to RSD strength. I can't comment about the Gallente eWar frigate or the Black Op's battleship. I am not sure how either work but their bonuses to RSD's should also be adjusted accordingly. Again if this proved to be over-powered, I am favor of baby-steps to adjust it. But make it useful once again and we can go from there.
Thoughts?
|
Solomon XI
Caldari Hoist The Colors.
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 00:33:00 -
[22]
^^^ My alt. Oops.
|
Kira Novia
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 08:12:00 -
[23]
The 75% bonus automatically to the Arazu/Lachesis may be a little excessive. Maybe a 50% to the ship itself would be better.
|
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 08:32:00 -
[24]
The gallente recons are currently quite weak. I have both and it's deceiving. Their combat ability is poor and their dampening power quite weak.
But, they are not totally focused on sensor disruption equipment as the caldari are. The RSD has both heavy flaws and strengths : -On long range engagement, it could be a pain, but it stays random because of the too short range. Fleets have won fights because of RSDs. With just increased range and not strength, they would have one situation where they are 100% annoying, just as the caldari. -On short range engagements, they are quite useless... Increasing strength would make them as good as caldari recons even in short range, then it would be unbalanced because of the warp disruption bonus.
So, the new gallente recon role? It's anti-nano technology, it can scramble nano ships within their attack range and render them useless. And that role is powerful, it may be the best way to make a short range BS a sitting duck, or any mwded ship with cruiser sized weapons. I think this balances the gallente recons for now. If they are sill useless after the nano changes, it will be again time to talk about it. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 09:44:00 -
[25]
I don't fly gallente so I can't check the values myself, but to be an effective Falcon pilot I need to fill my mids with ECM, fill my lows with Sig Distort Amps and have 2 ECM rigs fitted. That makes the falcon laugthable useless to anything else then ECM. Fair enought....
What if you have 5 damps, 1 point, 2 damping rigs and damping drones in your bay? Can you still tell me that the arazu is useless for its role? or are you just used to fit the arazu the way it was fitted before the damp nerf? (I'm seriously curious, not trying to troll anyone here...)
|
murder one
Gallente Invincible Reason
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 09:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: AshtarDJ I don't fly gallente so I can't check the values myself, but to be an effective Falcon pilot I need to fill my mids with ECM, fill my lows with Sig Distort Amps and have 2 ECM rigs fitted. That makes the falcon laugthable useless to anything else then ECM. Fair enought....
What if you have 5 damps, 1 point, 2 damping rigs and damping drones in your bay? Can you still tell me that the arazu is useless for its role? or are you just used to fit the arazu the way it was fitted before the damp nerf? (I'm seriously curious, not trying to troll anyone here...)
Yes, the above setup is still useless. Damp drones are stacking nerfed against each other, as are the damps themselves. ECM damp strength rigs are a joke, providing a paltry 5% increase in strength for each rig.
So regardless of what you put on it, the Arazu is still crap.
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships |
Damned Force
Minmatar Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 10:37:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus In order to fix the Arazu it needs to be given two more launcher slots and a +5% damage bonus per level to assault, heavy and heavy assault missile launchers.
This will do many things:
#1, missiles are capless, helping with that issue (which is a big one).
#2, missiles have range, and they don't lose DPS over range, so the Arazu can fight at much longer ranges and still do DPS.
#3, selectable damage type- this makes a *huge* difference in the effective DPS on target when 100% of your DPS is going against the targets weakest resist instead of it's highest.
#4, tracking- with no tracking issues for missiles, the Arazu is free to move around a bit more and not worry about losing DPS.
#5, +10mbit to it's drone bandwidth, +60m3 to it's dronebay. One more medium drone in the air, and the option for two full flights of different medium drones. Come on CCP, where is the 'drone versatility' you've been promising all the Gallente pilots?
Agree and i want all +5% kin damage bonus to be +5% bonus without dmage type restr. on every caldari ship and want 125m3 dronebay on BS's, 50 on BC class ships and 25 on cruisers too so they could field this drones even if without spare ones.....
sarcasm off
|
Dzajic
Gallente Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 14:59:00 -
[28]
Arazu isnt the Combat Recon, Lachesis is. If you want to have a ship to pwn nubs by scrambling them and damping them, use Lachesis, cry for CCP to boost its combat abilities, whatever.
Arazu should be a ewar boat primary. And with damps ugly range, it cant do that any good. I mean, it can be nice, but ECM boats are way too better.
|
Malena Panic
Veto. Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 15:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus In order to fix the Arazu it needs to be given two more launcher slots and a +5% damage bonus per level to assault, heavy and heavy assault missile launchers [...] +10mbit to it's drone bandwidth, +60m3 to it's dronebay. One more medium drone in the air, and the option for two full flights of different medium drones. Come on CCP, where is the 'drone versatility' you've been promising all the Gallente pilots?
Fantastic changes. This would make the ship very useful within its engagement envelope. ... |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 15:43:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 12/08/2008 15:43:18 I wish they would remove the warp disruption range bonus and make them pure sensor dampening ships (with additional dampening bonuses).
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim!
Or was that the other way around?
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |