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30 days of faction waràFor what exactly?

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Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2008.08.10 06:37:00 - [1] First point great job CCP, you really gave the casual player the best opportunity to PVP and have fun, without POS wars, gate bubbles, capital blobs and 45min slide shows. So on that I thank you. I discovered many misconceptions I had about FW, and slightly underestimated it, so here are a few notes on it: 1.FW has its share of new players, but also have its share of some really good pvpers, with such frequent battles which you donÆt get even in 0.0, the skill of some of the new players increase dramatically. Every loss in EVE is a lesion on what you did wrong. 2.FW is a very high risk type of game play in eve, probably one of the top 3 high risk jobs in eve, you go in to kill or be killed, you will get a fight b/c the other person has exactly the same intentions. 3.FW sucks in 2 aspects, which will lead to a high degree of player attrition. There are no incentives to do missions, or capture bunkers, or even systems aside from epeen or bragging rights, this is a very important point. Fights are not happening in the intended areas, b/c frankly is easer to camp a gate. Now all and all itÆs quite good, just the 3rd point that will need a major overhaul. I just wonder over and over why is it more profitable to do level 4 missions, or explorations, or the .01isk game in jita? Where is the Risk vs reward system? Faction war IMO should be one of the most lucrative jobs in EVE, implementing a system that works will be difficult. But with its current states it will lose popularity pretty fast. You can already see the numbers dropping. Thanks
Apoctasy The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.10 06:42:00 - [2] Edited by: Apoctasy on 10/08/2008 06:43:44 Because if they weren't profitable, all the carebears would quit eve and CCP would have no subscribers, therefore CCP must cater to them. ----
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2008.08.10 06:44:00 - [3] It could be interesting to see faction endorsed bounties, for every enemy kill you get an amount of isk.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:03:00 - [4] Because PvP is not meant to be an ISK faucet. Like all other PvP. - DesuSigs
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:06:00 - [5] Originally by: Sirial Soulfly It could be interesting to see faction endorsed bounties, for every enemy kill you get an amount of isk. 2 players would then just kill eachother to earn money. I would like to see a isk reward for taking plexes myself. How does 4 million isk per player sound? --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/08/2008 07:07:11 Originally by: Sirial Soulfly It could be interesting to see faction endorsed bounties, for every enemy kill you get an amount of isk. 2 players would then just kill eachother to earn money. I would like to see a isk reward for taking plexes myself... the op is right, the fights arent taking place in the plexes. Why? Because taking plexes is not fun, so players want pvp instead. Best way to find pvp is to watch the gates. Yep youÆre correct the fix must be done in the complex on the side of profitability, and then fights will move there, removing the faction NPC will also help. The entire idea of the complex is that you get a slightly more in class fights, at the moment victory points amount to nothing but a fancy rank that you cant even see clearly.
Kleus Flek Republic University	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:32:00 - [7] Edited by: Kleus Flek on 10/08/2008 07:32:41 Originally by: Sir Scorpion 3.FW sucks in 2 aspects, which will lead to a high degree of player attrition. There are no incentives to do missions, or capture bunkers, or even systems aside from epeen or bragging rights, this is a very important point. Fights are not happening in the intended areas, b/c frankly is easer to camp a gate. Now all and all itÆs quite good, just the 3rd point that will need a major overhaul. I just wonder over and over why is it more profitable to do level 4 missions, or explorations, or the .01isk game in jita? Where is the Risk vs reward system? Faction war IMO should be one of the most lucrative jobs in EVE, implementing a system that works will be difficult. But with its current states it will lose popularity pretty fast. You can already see the numbers dropping. Thanks It's been stated in the original Dev blogs and other CCP posts that FW wasn't designed to have rewards at first. Give them time to see where and how much of a reward should be implemented with FW. In the mean time, you could always go to the suggestions forum and... suggest possible rewards and reward systems?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Kleus Flek It's been stated in the original Dev blogs and other CCP posts that FW wasn't designed to have rewards at first. Give them time to see where and how much of a reward should be implemented with FW. In the mean time, you could always go to the suggestions forum and... suggest possible rewards and reward systems? Or we could have a general discussion about what needs to be done amongst the players. In the General Discussion forum. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Kleus Flek Republic University	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Jim McGregor Or we could contiune to beat the dead horse that CCP addressed at the onset of Empyrean Age. In the General Discussion forum. Fixed that for you.
Scimon ReCerch	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:36:00 - [10] we could have a general discusion with various suggestions about the development of FW. OFC this would be in the Game Development Forum
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Kleus Flek Originally by: Jim McGregor Or we could contiune to beat the dead horse that CCP addressed at the onset of Empyrean Age. In the General Discussion forum. Fixed that for you. Sorry if not all topics in this forum is to your liking. Maybe you should try clicking on another one? Im sure you can do it. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Kleus Flek Republic University	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:43:00 - [12] It is a little difficult for me, Jimbo. Y'see, I'm bored at work with nothing better to do. Back to the topic, couldn't the OP take the same direction? He could quit FW until such time as the Risk/Reward is up to his standard. But he won't, so he whined in General. I felt like I had to post here, so... C'est la vie.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:58:00 - [13] Poasting in an Irate Jim Thread. Want reward to go with your risk in FW? Then hope some carebear nub brings his officer fitted BS to low sec cause its like the moast awesome ship in teh game and noone can beat it. Otherwise do like everyone else and spam level 4 missions for the best uninterrupted 99% risk free isk per hour in the game for a solo player. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.10 08:55:00 - [14] Edited by: Andrue on 10/08/2008 08:56:13 Originally by: Sir Scorpion Every loss in EVE is a lesion on what you did wrong. Ouch. I think you need to take some more English lesions Sorry. Anyway I agree with your post..but I'm not sure it's a problem. FW is designed to get people in to PvP without the usual hassle and drawbacks. It succeeds. It'd be nice if the complexes were actually used as battlegrounds though. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Feilamya Minmatar Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2008.08.10 09:15:00 - [15] Edited by: Feilamya on 10/08/2008 09:17:49 Edited by: Feilamya on 10/08/2008 09:16:12 Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 10/08/2008 08:56:13 Anyway I agree with your post..but I'm not sure it's a problem. FW is designed to get people in to PvP without the usual hassle and drawbacks. It succeeds. It'd be nice if the complexes were actually used as battlegrounds though. This is a problem that Mythic Entertainment have tried to solve in DAoC for 6 years and failed. If CCP can solve this problem in 1 year, they deserve a shitload of respect, but I'm sure they will fail to, because like all other game companies trying to implement factional warfare, they don't understand one simple fact: Fights will always concentrate on chokepoints that are campable. FW complexes (like keeps in DAoC) are meant to be fortified zones. If players could build them anywhere in space, they would build them at gates which are worth camping. This means, they are not being used as battlegrounds simply because they are misplaced. By the way, "real" warfare is not different. Castles and fortresses have always been built at chokepoints throughout history.
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.10 09:24:00 - [16] Quote: I just wonder over and over why is it more profitable to do level 4 missions, or explorations, or the .01isk game in jita? Where is the Risk vs reward system? Faction war IMO should be one of the most lucrative jobs in EVE, implementing a system that works will be difficult. But with its current states it will lose popularity pretty fast. You can already see the numbers dropping. Funny, I don't recall ever getting paid to pvp. You pvp for the sake of it(or at least good pvpers do). If you wanted the most isk/hour then go run L4 missions in highsec riskfree like half of eve.
Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2008.08.10 09:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Gamesguy Funny, I don't recall ever getting paid to pvp. You pvp for the sake of it(or at least good pvpers do). If you wanted the most isk/hour then go run L4 missions in highsec riskfree like half of eve. Now I do know the system in BOB is quite different ôin terms of personal wealthö but you actually do get paid as an Alliance for your pvp. When bob controls a region of space, then the resources with in the area is your payment, let it be contracts to mining corporations, POS income, ratting etc. So nope you do actually get paid for your effort, otherwise why will you go through all the trouble?
Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2008.08.10 09:36:00 - [18] Originally by: Feilamya Fights will always concentrate on chokepoints that are campable. FW complexes (like keeps in DAoC) are meant to be fortified zones. If players could build them anywhere in space, they would build them at gates which are worth camping. This means, they are not being used as battlegrounds simply because they are misplaced. By the way, "real" warfare is not different. Castles and fortresses have always been built at chokepoints throughout history. Yep I do agree with you that fights will always be at the chock points, moving them into the complex will be a tremendous task in terms of creating a bullet proof concept. If lets say combat in complexes is to become profitable, or victory points are to be converted into LPs, its still easy for one party to camp the aria via gates, while others cap the complex. So yeah not easy.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.08.10 09:54:00 - [19] FW has ranks make fw troops drop tags that give a certain ammount of isk based on ship type and rank hand these in for isk this might sound like a bad idea but you could cash in pretty well and the tags would not disrupt the economy if they were worth as much of a little more than the loss you take on a ship (build cost+insurance - insurance payout) and especially for t2 ships they could be very profitable as the problem of people building ships to blow them up isnt there also only allow people in opposing factions to sell the tokens add faction loot to the deadspaces or hell, add anything to make them more interesting, maybe just shitloads of LP for killing the cretins within
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:05:00 - [20] gotta hate all those lesions you get from fw
Ihrda Siharkhail Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Sir Scorpion Originally by: Gamesguy Funny, I don't recall ever getting paid to pvp. You pvp for the sake of it(or at least good pvpers do). If you wanted the most isk/hour then go run L4 missions in highsec riskfree like half of eve. Now I do know the system in BOB is quite different ôin terms of personal wealthö but you actually do get paid as an Alliance for your pvp. When bob controls a region of space, then the resources with in the area is your payment, let it be contracts to mining corporations, POS income, ratting etc. So nope you do actually get paid for your effort, otherwise why will you go through all the trouble? you already have lvl4`s in empire to ***** isk with, what more do you want, a cookie?
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:15:00 - [22] Its not WoW, we dont get new stuff for fighting, your suppose to enjoy and thats reason enough.
Ioci Gallente Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:24:00 - [23] I haven't even tried the faction war yet. That's fine, it wasn't intended for me. I'm partial to the 0.0 POS game. Still, if you are in a Military, maybe they could have an on duty in Sys set up that 'paid' you. Not in ISK but in a points system. Kills get you extra points, maybe double for that day. Stops at one kill. Never more than double for that day. The devs will know what I am getting at. Use the R&D code to reward FW. On duty in an FW sys, you have a 'job' going and get a kill, you get x2 for that job. It wouldn't work daily unless you had a minimum hrs in for that day.. I dunno. It's an Idea.
Sumiya Tanaka	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:28:00 - [24] I don't think the OP is saying he wants to get paid. I think the point is that the mission/plex system in FW is broken, really, because there really is no reason to do it -- the rewards are too low given the risk profile, which is why you don't see many people doing them. One way to address that would be to give a faction a militia-wide buff for a certain duration for capping systems, or retaining systems, etc. Something like that, if significant enough, might encourage people to do these things more. As it is, that whole part of the design of FW is being vastly underutilized because CCP didn't get the design right. The rest of FW works very well, but the missions/plexes/system capping part seems poorly implemented.
Florio Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:31:00 - [25] FW is excellent. Log on, travel a few jumps, blow ships up, get blown up, few jumps back home in time for tea. It is much less time-intensive than 0.0 warfare. Lack of FCs can be a problem, but there are new ones coming through. I agree with the op insomuch as it would be cooler if more fights happened within plexes with their ship restrictions.
Kirra Liu Echelon Holdings Echelon.	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Ioci I haven't even tried the faction war yet. That's fine, it wasn't intended for me. I'm partial to the 0.0 POS game. Still, if you are in a Military, maybe they could have an on duty in Sys set up that 'paid' you. Not in ISK but in a points system. Kills get you extra points, maybe double for that day. Stops at one kill. Never more than double for that day. The devs will know what I am getting at. Use the R&D code to reward FW. On duty in an FW sys, you have a 'job' going and get a kill, you get x2 for that job. It wouldn't work daily unless you had a minimum hrs in for that day.. I dunno. It's an Idea. I like it but people would just go to the system and be "on duty", then sit cloaked and watch TV for a few hrs. Would nee plenty of other things to make it work properly, would have to have a level of activity to prove youre not afk racking up points and would need to show that when a fight comes your way you dont run like a girl, thus not really doing your job. But in principle I do like it.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Apoctasy Edited by: Apoctasy on 10/08/2008 06:43:44 Because if they weren't profitable, all the carebears would quit eve and CCP would have no subscribers, therefore CCP must cater to them. One does have to wonder at the brainpower being employed behind this sort of comment. First, the sheer effort to come up with an insult like carebear, second, the complete lack of grasp of economics or what generally pays for PvP, or third, this rather curious notion that all of EVE except the poster are carebears. Try proposing some time that level 4 missions are changed or removed - see who complains. I guarantee you it won't be those who live permanently in empire space. I know because I tried it as a joke. I seem to remember I had two low-sec pirates and two 0.0 alliance members as the first posters objecting. Either your knowledge of EVE is astoundingly small, or you need to learn to troll more effectively (or better yet, don't bother). As to the OP: PvP is the reward of FW. It should be fun and simple. I still don't get why they bothered with FW missions in the way they did, because it's just a death-trap waiting to happen. People didn't mission in low-sec prior to FW when they had to be probed out, I don't see why anyone would now when their mission location is advertised to the general public in low-sec. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2008.08.10 12:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Steve Hawkings Its not WoW, we dont get new stuff for fighting, your suppose to enjoy and thats reason enough. I have no familiarity with the pvp combat in wow; I always presumed it did not have any. Nor have I suggested that or referenced wow in my entire post. You seem to have extensive knowledge with that game, your 11 month old account suggests that you use to play it before eve, care to expand more? And what is its relevance with this entire subject?
Adaline Gray	Posted - 2008.08.10 13:51:00 - [29] I would like there to be some rewards for capturing & defending complexes. I would also like bounties for those enemy ships that I kill.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.10 13:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Adaline Gray I would like there to be some rewards for capturing & defending complexes. I would also like bounties for those enemy ships that I kill. There are. You gain promotion, which gains you faction standings. Bounties on PvP ships is horribly open to exploits and opens up other PvP wanting it too. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...

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