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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:06:00 -
[1]
Would be to give the mission NPCs spawning in lowsec the bounties of their belt rat equivalents. I know that would get me back to lowsec at least parttime in an instant.
Of course that would kinda completely devalue 0.0 ratting, not sure what to do about that. Maybe an additional boost to 0.0 rat bounties. Or something.
Thoughts?
And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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Anhil
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:47:00 -
[2]
Instead of completely devalueing 0.0 ratting, i would leave low sec bounties as they are and reduce high sec bounties by 50-70%. I guess after that, more people would do missions in low sec.
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Elaine Celeste
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Posted - 2008.08.11 13:19:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Would be to give the mission NPCs spawning in lowsec the bounties of their belt rat equivalents. I know that would get me back to lowsec at least parttime in an instant.
Of course that would kinda completely devalue 0.0 ratting, not sure what to do about that. Maybe an additional boost to 0.0 rat bounties. Or something.
Thoughts?
Huh? Low-sec asteroid rat bounties are awful... they only go up to battlecruisers that give a max of like 180k
Missions have BS rats that can easily give up to 800k if not more.
CELESTE LOTTERIES: Where losing is almost harder than winning... almost. |
Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.08.11 13:41:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Anhil
Instead of completely devalueing 0.0 ratting, i would leave low sec bounties as they are and reduce high sec bounties by 50-70%. I guess after that, more people would do missions in low sec.
They most likely would. Some of them I mean. Altho I'm afraid that more people would quit over that than did over carrier 'rebalancing' as agents are one of main isk fauchets in game and as it currently stands PvE and PvP setups do not compute resulting in heavy disadvantage for 'PvE' setup ship in 'PvP' situation. Nobody likes to be victim over and over again. At least no normal person.
Well organized entities would move to low sec agents being able to fend off some casual pirate gangs of approx 5 ships or so while solo players would shift to mining or quit.
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Foulque
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Posted - 2008.08.11 14:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Elaine Celeste
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Would be to give the mission NPCs spawning in lowsec the bounties of their belt rat equivalents. I know that would get me back to lowsec at least parttime in an instant.
Of course that would kinda completely devalue 0.0 ratting, not sure what to do about that. Maybe an additional boost to 0.0 rat bounties. Or something.
Thoughts?
Huh? Low-sec asteroid rat bounties are awful... they only go up to battlecruisers that give a max of like 180k
Missions have BS rats that can easily give up to 800k if not more.
Those same 800k mission BS give about double that in bounties when they are spawned in a belt as opposed to a mission. I think he is referring to giving low sec mission rats their standard bounties.
It would be a big incentive to go to low sec missioning but L4s already give too much reward with the reduced bounties, full bounties would push income way too high. Reduce high sec bounties instead, or just move all decent L4 agents to low sec imo.
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.11 14:17:00 -
[6]
Lowsec mission payoff is pleanty... 7-10k LP/mish. Don't think they need anything to add to that; people who refuse to mission in lowsec won't go out there no matter what the rewards are.
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Zeerover
Caldari
DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2008.08.11 14:43:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Zeerover on 11/08/2008 14:44:40
Low-Sec already have level 5 missions that have rewards far in excess of high-sec (45000+ LP for each) + the loot. Yet low-sec is still mostly deserted.
If you kill off high-sec mission running you'll kill off large parts of the Eve economy. Why do you think anyone pays billions for your complex/officer loot (which is only found in 0.0)? Because they fit it on their high-sec mission ships. They are willing to pay that much because they think it's a fairly secure investment. Nobody will fit a 2bil Gist-X or even a 1bil Pith-X module on a low-sec mission ship. Since these items only spawn in 0.0 the reality is that large parts of the fat mission money ends back in 0.0 sec.
Hence what will happen if you nerf high-sec missions is that 0.0 players will have a lot less money to throw around on POS'es, Capitals and general fun.
So stop thinking nerfing high-sec lvl4 mission running will give you better targets in low-sec and instead start to figure out new ideas for low-sec. One could be that different (new) items only spawn there and not in either 0.0 or high-sec.
Think new content instead of nerfing old content.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.11 15:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zeerover
Think new content instead of nerfing old content.
This. Boosting is always better than nerfing, especially when touching something that is the very lifeblood for a huge number of players.
And additional LP are NOT a good incentive as their value is already pretty low, especially when you have a huge amount, and only gets lower and lower the more are fanned out. The only way to make me interested in lowsec again (back when LP was still worth 3K+ on a regular basis even when you had 100K+ of them I was in lowses too) is to add direct cash incentives. And bounties would be the first thing I can think of here, especially since it probably is not all that hard to re-code missions to spawn asteroid rats in missions that are in lowsec. (And yes I am referring to the equivalent rat of course, like what is currently a Centus Tyrant for 1.2 mil would become a Sansha Tyrant for 1.85 mil in lowsec).
And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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Dwayne Dibly
UnderDog Industries
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.11 16:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zeerover
Edited by: Zeerover on 11/08/2008 14:44:40
Think new content instead of nerfing old content.
Havent we been ramming this down CCP's throat??? 
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Level 5 Mission Database Returns soon!! |
Zeerover
Caldari
DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2008.08.11 16:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dwayne Dibly
Originally by: Zeerover
Edited by: Zeerover on 11/08/2008 14:44:40
Think new content instead of nerfing old content.
Havent we been ramming this down CCP's throat???
Not enough at least. More ramming ;)
Onto the topic at hand. I think it would be a ok first step to increase low-sec mission bounties, but it would still not do the trick. What is needed is "the killer app". Something that is a must have, and can only be found in low-sec (no not also in 0.0).
For instance if there was some new types of EQ - let's say faction damage controls, faction transports, faction miners, faction battlecruisers, faction rigs and so forth - and these items ONLY were found in low-sec, then people would hunt out low-sec to get them. If few hunted them out, then the few would reap massive ISK benefits, if many hunted them out, we would have repopulated low-sec for the joy of everyone:)
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KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2008.08.11 18:11:00 -
[11]
New NPC corps with only low sec agents and with their own LP store ?
Originally by: Zeerover
For instance if there was some new types of EQ - let's say faction damage controls, faction transports, faction miners, faction battlecruisers, faction rigs and so forth - and these items ONLY were found in low-sec, then people would hunt out low-sec to get them.
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miss elena
Minmatar
The Geriatrics
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Posted - 2008.08.11 18:18:00 -
[12]
the idea to introduce items only to be found in lowsec is not bad, but i think the result would be that people would go to low to get the desired item and then sell it back in empire where, after all, the big market is located.So the influx of people that actually live in lowsec would be marginal
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Viqtoria
Caldari
Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.08.11 18:42:00 -
[13]
you wouldn't pvp in a mission fit ship so why would you pvp in one, because that's what going into lowsec is - asking very loudly to be scanned down and ganked.
only takes a glance at a persons standings.
why don't the pirates fight each other instead of yearning for totally lopsided fights.
Please keep your signature on-topic.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.11 18:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: miss elena
the idea to introduce items only to be found in lowsec is not bad, but i think the result would be that people would go to low to get the desired item and then sell it back in empire where, after all, the big market is located.So the influx of people that actually live in lowsec would be marginal
Well, if you have to run lowsec missions to get these items, you kinda HAVE to live in lowsec, no?
That is actually a fairly good idea.
As for my original idea, I just thought of a different variation for it: Adjust mission bounties by sec level, with 0.5 being the base, and every .1 sec higher gives a 10% penalty while every .1 sec lower gives a 10% bonus. This would be a mild but bearable nerf to highsec missions, and a significant boost to lowsec ones. And probably an overall reduction in cash influx from missions.
And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.08.11 18:58:00 -
[15]
I have always firmly believed that the only way to make modern low-sec missioning a viable option is more centered on removing the difference between PVE and PVP builds by altering NPC makeup than it is in making them more profitable.
More profitable doesn't hurt, but it ultimately leads to severe devaluation.
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Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pwett
I have always firmly believed that the only way to make modern low-sec missioning a viable option is more centered on removing the difference between PVE and PVP builds by altering NPC makeup than it is in making them more profitable.
More profitable doesn't hurt, but it ultimately leads to severe devaluation.
Altering the NPCs to be more like players (i.e. fewer ships with more power, need for scrambler etc...) would be nice, but it would to nothing to bring back people into lowsec. When you are scanned out and the pirates gank you with 3+ people (which the usually do from what I have seen), you are dead regardless of whether you were fit for PvP or PvE.
And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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Zeerover
Caldari
DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:06:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Zeerover on 11/08/2008 19:06:42
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: miss elena
the idea to introduce items only to be found in lowsec is not bad, but i think the result would be that people would go to low to get the desired item and then sell it back in empire where, after all, the big market is located.So the influx of people that actually live in lowsec would be marginal
Well, if you have to run lowsec missions to get these items, you kinda HAVE to live in lowsec, no?
That is actually a fairly good idea.
As for my original idea, I just thought of a different variation for it: Adjust mission bounties by sec level, with 0.5 being the base, and every .1 sec higher gives a 10% penalty while every .1 sec lower gives a 10% bonus. This would be a mild but bearable nerf to highsec missions, and a significant boost to lowsec ones. And probably an overall reduction in cash influx from missions.
Let me explain a bit further on the idea of low-sec only items. For instance a new type of complex comparable in difficulty to let's say lvl4 World's Collide, Enemies Abound and the like and it's only found in low sec. These complexes have rats that leave faction salvage parts, which would create a "must have", hence a lot of people running around in low-sec trying to find these complexes. Since they have a fair amount of dps you need a good fitted battleship to complete these complexes and that in turn lures the pirates to try and find these explorers.
The problem with bounties, even if it's a good first step, is that people like me, who do their missions in 0.5 systems, won't feel a need to go into any 0.4/0.3 system because of this. 10-20% more isk isn't worth the risk of losing ships worth 1 billion+ (Golem with DG/t2 fit).
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:10:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 11/08/2008 19:12:12
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: miss elena
the idea to introduce items only to be found in lowsec is not bad, but i think the result would be that people would go to low to get the desired item and then sell it back in empire where, after all, the big market is located.So the influx of people that actually live in lowsec would be marginal
Well, if you have to run lowsec missions to get these items, you kinda HAVE to live in lowsec, no?
That is actually a fairly good idea.
As for my original idea, I just thought of a different variation for it: Adjust mission bounties by sec level, with 0.5 being the base, and every .1 sec higher gives a 10% penalty while every .1 sec lower gives a 10% bonus. This would be a mild but bearable nerf to highsec missions, and a significant boost to lowsec ones. And probably an overall reduction in cash influx from missions.
Perfectly ok it the system that adjust the bounties value is the system where the mission is done and not the system where the mission is given.
Edit: noticed a flaw. Mission with tags instead of bounties. With this system they would be nerfed against NPC rewards in low sec/0.0, boosted against high sec NPC rewards.
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
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Foulque
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Viqtoria
you wouldn't pvp in a mission fit ship so why would you pvp in one, because that's what going into lowsec is - asking very loudly to be scanned down and ganked.
only takes a glance at a persons standings.
why don't the pirates fight each other instead of yearning for totally lopsided fights.
That's the whole point. Current High sec missioning is a solo game in what is meant to be an mmo. If the rewards were right (which includes fixing low sec ores for industry corp members) Basing corps/alliances in a low sec area would become viable. As opposed to the way it stands now where it's either 0.0 or high sec with low sec an empty border zone.
Ofcourse there should be an option for the solo player in high sec but it shouldnt compare to the amount you can earn with organisation in low sec. As it stands right now though doing anything in low sec other than PVP comes to the question of "Why aren't I doing this in High sec and making similar isk"?
There's nthing wrong with a little danger, the rewards just have to make it worthwhile.
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Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Altering the NPCs to be more like players (i.e. fewer ships with more power, need for scrambler etc...) would be nice, but it would to nothing to bring back people into lowsec. When you are scanned out and the pirates gank you with 3+ people (which the usually do from what I have seen), you are dead regardless of whether you were fit for PvP or PvE.
I totally agree, but it would be a step in the right direction. Half of the danger is in the mission; the other half is getting to it.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
The Border Patrol
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Posted - 2008.08.11 23:30:00 -
[21]
instead of your numerous ideas, the low sec gate camping must be nerfed... if they want a kill, they need to scan hard for it.
there are too many lazy bums, who think they are great PvPeers, they don't have what it takes to fight other players... they gank PVE fitted ships and pay for their game with ISK...
gankage must be put to the end; fortify the sentry towers and make them kill the weakest target without switching fire... they'll think twice before attempting to perma tank sentries
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.08.12 01:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Opertone
instead of your numerous ideas, the low sec gate camping must be nerfed... if they want a kill, they need to scan hard for it.
there are too many lazy bums, who think they are great PvPeers, they don't have what it takes to fight other players... they gank PVE fitted ships and pay for their game with ISK...
gankage must be put to the end; fortify the sentry towers and make them kill the weakest target without switching fire... they'll think twice before attempting to perma tank sentries
lol no.
scanning is easy as ****. I take it you never scanned anyone down 
look at the You're doing it wrong corp, they go around and bust gate camps, often outnumbered and with few losses. busting gatecamps is quite doable with lesser numbers than the people camping have. jumping in solo and unscouted with a raven should be suicide. hell I would rather go busting gatecamps than sit around and gatecamp, pirates usually have better loot than heavy missile launcher ravens and mining rohks.
if you want sentries to only shoot at 1 person, just get an assault frig + logistic ship and its easier to tank the sentries than ever. or remote rep battleship gang.
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yrknat
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Posted - 2008.08.12 02:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Foulque
That's the whole point. Current High sec missioning is a solo game in what is meant to be an mmo.
mmo does not need to mean forced grouping to do anything in the game. mmo just means there are a lot of people in the same world who are able to interact with to the extent they wish and are able to.
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Artemis Rose
Odd End of the Universe
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Posted - 2008.08.12 05:07:00 -
[24]
Honestly, I think the only way to empty high sec would be to severely reduce the rewards there.
__________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2008.08.12 05:16:00 -
[25]
Moved to Features & Ideas.
Mitnal
Community Representative
CCP Games, EVE Online
Email / Netfang
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Caldari 5
Amarr
The Element Syndicate
Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss
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Posted - 2008.08.12 11:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zeerover
Think new content instead of nerfing old content.
Agreed
Now as for New content seems to me that the biggest issue with missions in low sec is that PvPers seem to like attending missions uninvited. So how about a bit of a change in the AI for the missions. I'm guessing that the game knows who is the mission holder, how about the mission rats immediately switch target to anyone that is not in the mission holders fleet.
The new enemy is more important to kill then the current enemy, The enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of thing.
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Anhil
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Posted - 2008.08.12 11:52:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Anhil on 12/08/2008 11:52:24
Originally by: Zeerover
The new enemy is more important to kill then the current enemy, The enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of thing.
In that case NPCs should set a nap with pirates.
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H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.08.12 11:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Caldari 5
The new enemy is more important to kill then the current enemy, The enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of thing.
Well, the pirates are the friends of the NPC's. That's why they kill those pesky mission runners
You may want to reconsider your logic...
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Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.08.12 16:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Moved to Features & Ideas.
Great, now no one will ever see it :)
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Zeerover
Caldari
DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2008.08.12 18:19:00 -
[30]
Brainstorming a bit more:
The issue of low-sec could be solved with having the minor related factions owning it. For instance if Mordu owned low-sec Caldari space, Thukker low-sec Minmatar, Khanid and Ammatar low-sec Amarr and ORE and Sisters of Eve low-sec Gallente.
These factions would have different must-have items in their LP stores and not just copies of what is already obtainable (Ammatar eq and Amarr eq is different in name only atm). Since their regions would only be low-sec, the missions you need to run to get said eq would also only be in low-sec.
It would again enforce the dynamic of "if few are doing it they reap massive benefits, if many are doing it low-sec is repopulated".
This is maybe too big a change, but is an further idea. It fits storyline wise as the minor factions aren't "strong enough" to keep their own space completely safe.
A lesser version of this is to have a new corp in each faction (think Gallente Gendarmerie) which only has Agents in low-sec, and said corps has LP stores with new items, such as the aforementioned faction Damage Control (Gallente/Amarr give better armor bonuses, Caldari/Minmatar better shield bonuses), faction transports (Thukker blockade runner, Khanid Deep Space transports), faction miners, faction battlecruisers (Mordu, Ammatar) and the like.
Ontop of that complexes with new faction salvage (or even just T2 salvage parts) and you've created incentive for many to hang around in low-sec and fighting for control of it.
The thing that I think shouldn't happen is removing high-sec earnings potential, because then you remove the marked demand for these new items.
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