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Droodid	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:49:00 - [1] Not sure if this is the right place buuut... I've been thinking recently that, obviously, the capsuleer is not the only crewmember on most ships. The smaller ones like intys and frigates perhaps, but in the larger ones how many crew members ARE there? Does it range from a dozen on a destroyer to maybe 15,000 on a titan?? Would just like a general ballpark figure for each of the ship classes if anyone knows... Thanks
Droodid	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:49:00 - [2] Not sure if this is the right place buuut... I've been thinking recently that, obviously, the capsuleer is not the only crewmember on most ships. The smaller ones like intys and frigates perhaps, but in the larger ones how many crew members ARE there? Does it range from a dozen on a destroyer to maybe 15,000 on a titan?? Would just like a general ballpark figure for each of the ship classes if anyone knows... Thanks
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:51:00 - [3] I think this has been discussed quite a bit in the Eve Library section. You might want to check over there. I've heard figures as high as 6,000 for some classes (not sure which ones right off).
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:51:00 - [4] As far as I know: Frigates: No crew Destroyers: Around a dozen Cruisers: Several Hundred Battlecruisers: A thousand or more Battleships: Six thousand or more Capital Ships: ? Motherships: 25 thousand Titans: 50 thousand ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:51:00 - [5] I think this has been discussed quite a bit in the Eve Library section. You might want to check over there. I've heard figures as high as 6,000 for some classes (not sure which ones right off).
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:51:00 - [6] As far as I know: Frigates: No crew Destroyers: Around a dozen Cruisers: Several Hundred Battlecruisers: A thousand or more Battleships: Six thousand or more Capital Ships: ? Motherships: 25 thousand Titans: 50 thousand ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:52:00 - [7] Read the chronicle 'The Hands of a Killer' and the short story 'The Jovian Wetgrave' -omg-
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:52:00 - [8] Read the chronicle 'The Hands of a Killer' and the short story 'The Jovian Wetgrave' -omg-
Droodid	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:53:00 - [9] Thanks folks, that gives me some idea!
Droodid	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:53:00 - [10] Thanks folks, that gives me some idea!
Micia Minmatar Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:05:00 - [11] During the 5th Alliance Tournment, earlier this year, there was a series of interviews with various crew members. It starts here: Following the Crews: The Untold Story. You'll have to look up the rest of the articles for yourself. I've lost the bookmarks for 'em. _______
Micia Minmatar Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:05:00 - [12] During the 5th Alliance Tournment, earlier this year, there was a series of interviews with various crew members. It starts here: Following the Crews: The Untold Story. You'll have to look up the rest of the articles for yourself. I've lost the bookmarks for 'em. _______
nutbar Caldari Flair Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:18:00 - [13] This is one of the things I have found very illogical and just doesn't seem to make sense when you put it all together. 1) We're supposed to be in this *****ed egg-shaped pod, which is apparently filled with goo. We're now going to be getting ambulation where we're wearing outfits and whatever... why on earth would we constantly be getting in and out of our goo-filled pods when we dock. Personally this whole goo-filled egg-shaped pod idea is outright dumb. They should just redo this part to make it more sensible. Read up on how Mechwarrior works - you plug your brain in to the thing and also use your physical body to operate the ship. Brain does the quick thinky stuff, body does the rest. No goo required - just a special suit which we could wear under a jump suit or whatever 2) If a battleship has thousands of people as it's crew, why the hell would we be blowing them up left/right center without a care in the world? Sure, we might have tons of ISK for ships... but where the HELL are all these people coming from? Even making people from test tubes wouldn't be enough to spit out fully trained ship crew as quick as they're consumed in EVE - especially in the outskirts of space where it's more strictly "war torn" areas. Would you even WANT to be a ship crew with the way ships pop in EVE? The pod pilots could probably never afford the pay the crew should be getting. If they're trying to be in-line with the "Star Trek"s of science fiction, smack*. Most of those are all ships that deal with exploration and WANT a decent crew count for doing research and stuff. If you're out for war (how many crew on a Klingon war-bird?), just a handfull of people should be all that's required to operate the battleships. A carrier, mothership and titan I can understand having 10k worth of crew for repairs, docking and whatever - but those ships don't pop NEARLY as often, and if you're going in to war you'd be bringing only what you need anyways. I'm sure I've got more to rant about when it comes to the realism (not even realism, more like belivability) of EVE. Point being, their background stories need a lot of work - they just aren't logical.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:20:00 - [14] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 13/08/2008 00:20:52 1) Why not? I don't see what's so difficult about getting in/out of a pod. It doesn't need to require some ridiculously omgcomplex procedure. Just disconnect brain from pod -> Get out of pod. 2) Population growth isn't linear. The more people there are in the world, the faster population increases. If even a small percentage of planets in EVE are colonized, then that makes for a metric ****load of population every day.
Balrokenx Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:22:00 - [15] Originally by: nutbar This is one of the things I have found very illogical and just doesn't seem to make sense when you put it all together. 1) We're supposed to be in this *****ed egg-shaped pod, which is apparently filled with goo. We're now going to be getting ambulation where we're wearing outfits and whatever... why on earth would we constantly be getting in and out of our goo-filled pods when we dock. Personally this whole goo-filled egg-shaped pod idea is outright dumb. They should just redo this part to make it more sensible. Read up on how Mechwarrior works - you plug your brain in to the thing and also use your physical body to operate the ship. Brain does the quick thinky stuff, body does the rest. No goo required - just a special suit which we could wear under a jump suit or whatever 2) If a battleship has thousands of people as it's crew, why the hell would we be blowing them up left/right center without a care in the world? Sure, we might have tons of ISK for ships... but where the HELL are all these people coming from? Even making people from test tubes wouldn't be enough to spit out fully trained ship crew as quick as they're consumed in EVE - especially in the outskirts of space where it's more strictly "war torn" areas. Would you even WANT to be a ship crew with the way ships pop in EVE? The pod pilots could probably never afford the pay the crew should be getting. If they're trying to be in-line with the "Star Trek"s of science fiction, smack*. Most of those are all ships that deal with exploration and WANT a decent crew count for doing research and stuff. If you're out for war (how many crew on a Klingon war-bird?), just a handfull of people should be all that's required to operate the battleships. A carrier, mothership and titan I can understand having 10k worth of crew for repairs, docking and whatever - but those ships don't pop NEARLY as often, and if you're going in to war you'd be bringing only what you need anyways. I'm sure I've got more to rant about when it comes to the realism (not even realism, more like belivability) of EVE. Point being, their background stories need a lot of work - they just aren't logical. You don't know the total population of eve, how can you make assumptions. For all you know there could be trillions of people in our eve universe and a few million mean nothing.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:29:00 - [16] Earth, how many millions of people? Now, how many settled worlds are there? We're pilots. The fact that we control our ship while in a pod, does not mean we don't have other lives. We get out of our pod to sleep. We walk around, get married, have kids, live lives. Psst We might even have other jobs and hobbies, like playing musical instruments or running a bar I'm heavily into sci fi and such, but I can't believe how many people can run on two bits of information and forget that in even imaginary people have lives. Or did you think Capt. Picard spent his entire existence as a captain of the Enterprise? Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:50:00 - [17] Originally by: nutbar Stuff 1) AFAIK, ambulation will be optional. If you want to stay in your pod, I expect that you will be able to do so. I doubt that I will be leaving it very often myself. 2) You are underestimating the number of people out there. The few billion people in space is nothing compared to the trillions who live planet side. The millions that die on our ships don't even make a dint in the population. You are also vastly underestimating the number of people on a Titan. A Titan is as long and wide as Manhattan, and a hell of a lot taller.
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.13 01:29:00 - [18] Originally by: nutbar 1) We're supposed to be in this ****ed egg-shaped pod, which is apparently filled with goo. We're now going to be getting ambulation where we're wearing outfits and whatever... why on earth would we constantly be getting in and out of our goo-filled pods when we dock. Personally this whole goo-filled egg-shaped pod idea is outright dumb. They should just redo this part to make it more sensible. Read up on how Mechwarrior works - you plug your brain in to the thing and also use your physical body to operate the ship. Brain does the quick thinky stuff, body does the rest. No goo required - just a special suit which we could wear under a jump suit or whatever See, being in a goo-filled pod allows for complete sensory deprivation so that there's nothing in the outside world to distract you from piloting the ship. As for getting in and out of your pod, you only have to do it if you want to. If you feel like staying all gooed up, go for it. Originally by:** nutbar 2) If a battleship has thousands of people as it's crew, why the hell would we be blowing them up left/right center without a care in the world? Sure, we might have tons of ISK for ships... but where the HELL are all these people coming from? Even making people from test tubes wouldn't be enough to spit out fully trained ship crew as quick as they're consumed in EVE - especially in the outskirts of space where it's more strictly "war torn" areas. Would you even WANT to be a ship crew with the way ships pop in EVE? The pod pilots could probably never afford the pay the crew should be getting. If they're trying to be in-line with the "Star Trek"s of science fiction, smack. Most of those are all ships that deal with exploration and WANT a decent crew count for doing research and stuff. If you're out for war (how many crew on a Klingon war-bird?), just a handfull of people should be all that's required to operate the battleships. A carrier, mothership and titan I can understand having 10k worth of crew for repairs, docking and whatever - but those ships don't pop NEARLY as often, and if you're going in to war you'd be bringing only what you need anyways. Yeah, I don't think the figures above are viable; it's just way more crew than I would imagine is needed. I think there is some work that needs to be done to hash this out in a semi-logical way for the sake of the lore.
Corduroy Rab Xenocidal Uprising	Posted - 2008.08.13 01:32:00 - [19] On the old eve site, and I mean old old eve site, wasn't there values of ships crews given with the ship infos? I swear I remember some archive of the old eve site somewhere where this still can be seen.
Kosume Ike Amarr GoldenWind	Posted - 2008.08.13 01:39:00 - [20] Originally by: J Kunjeh ...I don't think the figures above are viable... viable or not, the figures for sub capital ships are known and not left up to guessing: raven it seems lots of players prefer to not think of the thousands of people their characters kill all the time. i suppose a rather psychotic denial would be common for pod pilots, so quite realistic.
Devlan Morris	Posted - 2008.08.13 02:20:00 - [21] Well this thread just destroyed any possibility of me role playing in EVE. I always just assumed those were the crew required without a pod pilot... I agree with Nutbar. It isn't finding enough people that's the problem, it's that all pod-pilots would have to be psychopaths to throw away tens of thousands of lives fighting each other in battleships. I always thought the kill-happy nature of EVE players was interesting because it was an accurate portrayal of how people would behave if death was only a minor inconvenience. But being responsible for the lives of thousands of crew members would make real capsuliers much more cautious. The psychopaths who treated crew like drones would develop a bad reputation and quickly find themselves unable to fill necessary positions on their ships. Also, what the hell is the point of a pod if it still take thousands of people to crew a battleship? How many does it take without a pod?! I think I'll just go on like before assuming crew don't exist and that sophisticated automation takes care care of all that mundane stuff. At least for the sake of my sanity.
Devlan Morris	Posted - 2008.08.13 02:29:00 - [22] Also, those crew requirements don't scale up in any sensible way. Battlecruisers are only slightly larger than cruisers (11mil kg for a vexor compared to 13mil for a brutix) but they require ten times as many people to work? Huh?
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.13 02:44:00 - [23] well they use smaller people of course Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.13 02:50:00 - [24] Originally by: hired goon Read the chronicle 'The Hands of a Killer' and the short story 'The Jovian Wetgrave' I really liked Hands of a Killer. Great read, if short.
Devlan Morris	Posted - 2008.08.13 03:19:00 - [25] "The Hands of a Killer" was really cool, if incredibly disturbing. Hmmm, perhaps a good compromise on this would be to have crew size be inversely proportional to skill level. So, for example, a pilot with no ranks in mechanic would require the full standard maintenance crew, while one with 5 ranks could handle it all himself. This way, with good enough training, a pod pilot could theoretically fly a battleship himself, but it would take a long time to reach that level.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.13 04:34:00 - [26] I just wish they'd implement different crew types. In other words, when you buy a new ship it comes with a free green crew. No bonuses, no penalties. You could then spend x money (and/or have to train skills) to get either Regular 1%,Veteran 2%, or Elite 3% crews. These crews would give the above (fairly small) bonuses to something innocuous like say shield recharge, or Cap recharge, or grid bonus or whatever/something not gamebreaking. If your ship dies the crew dies of course.
K'orbin Hayato Minmatar Meridian Dynamics Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.08.13 05:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Devlan Morris Well this thread just destroyed any possibility of me role playing in EVE. I always just assumed those were the crew required without a pod pilot... I agree with Nutbar. It isn't finding enough people that's the problem, it's that all pod-pilots would have to be psychopaths to throw away tens of thousands of lives fighting each other in battleships. I always thought the kill-happy nature of EVE players was interesting because it was an accurate portrayal of how people would behave if death was only a minor inconvenience. But being responsible for the lives of thousands of crew members would make real capsuliers much more cautious. The psychopaths who treated crew like drones would develop a bad reputation and quickly find themselves unable to fill necessary positions on their ships. To capsuleers, the lives of 'normal' humans are worth less than nothing. Even the life of a slave is worth more to the slave owner. A slave represents a signifigant investment, while the crew is just another of the ships systems, to be repaired or replaced as nessecary. Does it sadden you that your blasters were lost along with your ship? Do you lay awake at night guilt-ridden over all the micro-warp drives you've destroyed? Does the thought of thousands of missiles hurtling to their doom distress you? No. You simply go buy more and continue your modular genocide. As for why anyone would hire on for such a suicidal job, most seek to escape from their dreary existence. Some likely seek the adventure and the thrill of such a dangerous undertaking. Regardless of other motivations, the payout is quite nice. It's been debated for quite some time how much crews are paid and how much terrestrial wealth is represented by the ISK. Claims the a fraction of an ISK is worth 'a fortune' in terrestrial currency are certainly exagerated. Even so, a single ISK is worth a considerable amount to those not among the galaxy's elite and the salary for a tour of duty on a pod ship is worth the astronomical risk. Quote: Also, what the hell is the point of a pod if it still take thousands of people to crew a battleship? How many does it take without a pod?! The pod only replaces the command crew. Real people are required to preform the rest of the ships opperations: maintenace, repair, cleaning, etc., not to mention manning the guns once the pewpew starts. If you find yourself in a fair fight, somebody screwed up.
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.13 05:23:00 - [28] Originally by: Balrokenx Originally by: nutbar to much stuff to quote. You don't know the total population of eve, how can you make assumptions. For all you know there could be trillions of people in our eve universe and a few million mean nothing. this is the case, if you read the news, leading up to faction warfare, there are probably hundreds of billions of people per race, i once read the news report, and in it, supposedely tens of billions of people lost their jobs because of the suiciding Nyx mother ship or something like that that was just the gallente so if the gallente had tens of billions of people laid off, and their economy didnt collapse, its safe to assume that there are a few hundred billion, and perhaps up to a trillion gallente citizens
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.08.13 05:27:00 - [29] Originally by: hired goon Read the chronicle 'The Hands of a Killer' and the short story 'The Jovian Wetgrave' Hands of a Killer is the best, one of the first stories I read months ago and kinda the one I judge every other story by. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil	Posted - 2008.08.13 05:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Devlan Morris Hmmm, perhaps a good compromise on this would be... No. No compromise, as you'd only be lieing to yourself. You are a murderer. Accept it. Accept it, as this is the nature of being a Capsule Pilot. You are a God amongst men; imortal, and omnipotent as you wear 1000+ meter long ships as others would wear body armor. You have the incredible wealth, power and influence that allow you to disregard and discard normal human lives by the thousands. They are all merely tools, just another cog in your spaceborne warmachine to ensure your ship operates as you so desire. The crew all assume this role willingly, as this may be their only meaningful and worthwhile escape from an unfulfilling life trapped in the bowels of some forsaken slum of a station or planet-side city... The excitement, prestige and (most importantly) pay will ensure that our ships will never be in short suply of crew (ISK is a special currency used for Capsule Pilots. Just a few ISK equals an entire years salary for a commoner, and we Pod Pilots are usualy deaing with it in the millions). The Pod interface only replaces the Bridge crew. It allows the pilot to monitor and control vital systems throught the ship as though it were his or her own body. But just as the Capsule Pilot is the "central nervous system" of the ship's "body", the body will need "blood" to survive and operate. All ships (aside from the smallest Frigates) need some form of human crew onboard, and it is they who are this "blood". It is not that a pilot is specificaly sociopathic and wants to put thousands of lives on the line... but a Pilot is simply not able to control the army robotic drones neccessary to perform all of the required tasks while simultaneously controling his or her ship in battle, and Artificialy inteligent drones are too... unreliable. Frigs usualy have 1-3 crew (including the pilot), Cruisers have several hundred, and the kilometer long Battleships have Thousands (these ship schematics were released a looooong time ago). God only knows how many ppl are onboard Capital and Super-Capital ships. There were also a couple RP news articles about the crews of ships in the Alliance tournament. As for the fate of the crew... Here is a quote from a member of an official ISD member: Originally by: ISD Cobray Aine ...a new crew member, out to get money to pay for medical bills meets some seasoned crew members in one of the bars reserved for non-capsuleers. They explain to him that they've been declared "dead" on numerous occasions, and that crew onboard ships will try to flee if the ship starts to go down, either by finding an escape pod, or knowing where the reinforced areas of the ship are that are unlikely to break apart/open on the ship's destruction. It's easier for the capsule pilots to assume all hands lost (And send out messages to family members accordingly), even though you may have entombed a portion of your surviving crew in tiny escape capsules or hull fragments with limited a air supply. For more reading, check out "Hands of a Killer" and the short story "Forsaken Ruins"- specificaly the fourth page in. Hope you enjoyed the read! ------------------------------------------------------------------

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