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Ok Vets, whats the trick for taking down the new nanos... Recon Ships.

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FalconsFury Gallente Hammer Of Light Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:11:00 - [1] Edited by: FalconsFury on 13/08/2008 17:16:17 ive been seeing alot of gangs running cloaking recon ships... pilgrims being the most annoying so far. whats the deal? i cant seem to get a ship to lock them down fast enough before they cloak, and when ur dealing with 10 of them its a issue, cause they can really screw up ur day... edit: and yes i know some of the tactics bubble -> t2 light drones assigned to tackelers to uncloak them.... etc it seems there isnt a real counter, i have yet seen someone take them down at a gate camp, they jump, align, cloak, warp....
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:16:00 - [2] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 13/08/2008 17:18:32 Well, Recons DO have painstakingly horrible DPS and with a few exceptions are extremely fragile. The Pilgrim is worthless without it's Drones and I've seen Falcons die in 1 volley. They're fine. Unlike Nanos. - Infectious -
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:17:00 - [3] Wait, I've never even heard of a nano pilgrim being useful. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Megan Maynard Minmatar 7th Cav	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:18:00 - [4] Bait them, use cloaks to catch them off guard. You won't catch one singlehandidly, nor should you. ECM blackbirds and griffins will ruin a recon pilots day every time. (Can't use the stuff that makes them good, and long lock range lets you keep them from burning and cloaking. 10 BB's will counter 10 recons any day. (I'll get flamed for that.)
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Megan Maynard 10 BB's will counter 10 recons any day. (I'll get flamed for that.) TBH, it's reasonably true. It's especially true if you're clever about it and have some ships be ECM sponges. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
FalconsFury Gallente Hammer Of Light Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:12:00 - [6] blackbirds are the only real option?
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.13 19:06:00 - [7] If the OP is having issues with Pilgrims I feel sorry for him when he goes against just about any BC in the game...... ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.13 19:10:00 - [8] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 13/08/2008 17:18:32 Well, Recons DO have painstakingly horrible DPS and with a few exceptions are extremely fragile. The Pilgrim is worthless without it's Drones and I've seen Falcons die in 1 volley. They're fine. Unlike Nanos. 1 volley of what?: Even a max skilled tempest with Republic fleet EMP and 6x1400mm II cannot insta pop a falcon. In fact it needs 3 volleys ( 30 seconds)! ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Megan Maynard Minmatar 7th Cav	Posted - 2008.08.13 19:11:00 - [9] Originally by: FalconsFury blackbirds are the only real option? If you are out gunned or out skilled, ECM is always the best option. You'll be surprised by how even the playing field gets once you start fielding cheap ass t1 cruisers and frigs that can jam everything.
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.08.13 19:15:00 - [10] It's true, one blackbird in our fleet let about 4 others (me in a BC, and I think 2 BS) take on 2 megas, a phoon and an abaddon. Then they got a falcon and kicked our asses. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.13 20:03:00 - [11] Originally by: FalconsFury blackbirds are the only real option? Blackbirds are the cheapest option. They're only about 2 million each and can have fittings applied for less than a million on top of that. They don't do much dps but if you have enough EWAR satuating the battlefield you don't need much because you'll have all the time in the world. Bombers work well also - especially against slow recons - a handful of them can instapop the generally flimsy ships. There are lots of options for fighting a force who relies on a single class of ships to succeed - such a tactic means a severe limitation of your combat options.
Madla Mafia Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.08.13 21:42:00 - [12] Getting by gate camps is the only thing the recon ships are good for. Their dps sucks. They exist to do recon work, so....I don't see any problems with them. ------------------------------------------ Amarr - getting screwed since 2005.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:32:00 - [13] Sneeze hard. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Kagura Nikon 1 volley of what?: Even a max skilled tempest with Republic fleet EMP and 6x1400mm II cannot insta pop a falcon. In fact it needs 3 volleys ( 20 seconds)! Fixed. while your falcon pilot warps off in a pod, baffled at why his FC Borat can't learn to not pyramid-quote.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:40:00 - [15] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu In fact it needs 3 volleys ( 20 seconds)! Fixed. Cute, an off by one error. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 13/08/2008 17:18:32 Well, Recons DO have painstakingly horrible DPS and with a few exceptions are extremely fragile. The Pilgrim is worthless without it's Drones and I've seen Falcons die in 1 volley. They're fine. Unlike Nanos. 1 volley of what?: Even a max skilled tempest with Republic fleet EMP and 6x1400mm II cannot insta pop a falcon. In fact it needs 3 volleys ( 30 seconds)! Was an Abaddon with Tachyons - Infectious -
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:20:00 - [17] get lucky with wrecking hits I only 2 volley em
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:26:00 - [18] Originally by: FalconsFury blackbirds are the only real option? They're the cheapest. Long range gun ships work pretty well too. Stealth bombers are pretty horrifying to Falcon pilots (fast locking speed, insane targeting range, high sensor strength, huge alpha, can move quite fast while cloaked, often fit damps: basically everything you want in an anti-falcon ship except instant damage) CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 13/08/2008 17:18:32 Well, Recons DO have painstakingly horrible DPS and with a few exceptions are extremely fragile. The Pilgrim is worthless without it's Drones and I've seen Falcons die in 1 volley. They're fine. Unlike Nanos. 1 volley of what?: Even a max skilled tempest with Republic fleet EMP and 6x1400mm II cannot insta pop a falcon. In fact it needs 3 volleys ( 30 seconds)! An 'All Level 5' Maelstrom, with RF EMP does an alpha of 5861 on 3 gyros. 6027 if you use 4 gyros. Mr 'J Random Falcon' also with the mythical 'All Level 5' profile is on 6637 against all damage types, but a mere 5848 against the EMP damage profile. A 3 heatsink Tachybaddon is on 5957 alpha (yes, that is slightly better than the Maelstrom) - although the T2 thermal resist boost on the Falcon, slight though it is, puts it out of range of a Tachybaddon instapop. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Rajere No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.14 00:20:00 - [20] Edited by: Rajere on 14/08/2008 00:21:50 heh my falcon has 9,148 EHP vs RF EMP using my crappy skills, 9,970 with all level 5 (edit: forgot rigs) NOTR How to Fail at Eve
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.14 00:37:00 - [21] Originally by: James Lyrus A 3 heatsink Tachybaddon is on 5957 alpha (yes, that is slightly better than the Maelstrom) - although the T2 thermal resist boost on the Falcon, slight though it is, puts it out of range of a Tachybaddon instapop. Turrets don't always do the same damage though. Hello wrecking hits. - Infectious -
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.14 05:50:00 - [22] and 'max skilled pilots' get sick of being primaried early. . .so there is a huge skill difference between a good Abaddon pilot and an avarage falcon pilot. ---- GO BLUE!!
forum mematar	Posted - 2008.08.14 06:07:00 - [23] Edited by: forum mematar on 14/08/2008 06:08:22 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 13/08/2008 17:18:32 Well, Recons DO have painstakingly horrible DPS and with a few exceptions are extremely fragile. The Pilgrim is worthless without it's Drones and I've seen Falcons die in 1 volley. They're fine. Unlike Nanos. 1 volley of what?: Even a max skilled tempest with Republic fleet EMP and 6x1400mm II cannot insta pop a falcon. In fact it needs 3 volleys ( 30 seconds)! Abaddon does it, very easily. EDIT: Oh missed Rawr's comment And get real people, EFT != EVE. --- http://stige.pingtimeout.net/evevids/
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2008.08.14 06:45:00 - [24] Originally by: FalconsFury blackbirds are the only real option? Its something you should include in your solution for sure. If the enemies have ewar, you can neutralize some of it and help your guys. While falcons get you the most combat value out of a single ecm pilot, blackbirds are most cost-effective. Kitsunes are something to look at too, they are still pretty cheap and a nasty little package of ewar. Since recons tend to be low on dps, a good idea might be to consider a decent group of remote repping BSs as the main body of your fleet. Use (remote) eccm to prepare against jamming, and if things go wrong they can do the turtle and survive. To tackle and hold them, you would need interceptors, huginn/rapier, lachesis/arazu. A claymore giving bonus for that with rapid deployment and interdiction links could increase the utility considerably.
Cautet Precision Engineering	Posted - 2008.08.14 10:55:00 - [25] Edited by: Cautet on 14/08/2008 10:59:50 Edited by: Cautet on 14/08/2008 10:57:19 Is the OP asking for a way to guarentee to kill cloakers at gatecamps or a way to fight cloaker in general? If asking for a way to always get them at gatecamps - there are ways to maximise your chances to kill them, but not to guarentee you will kill them. You can figure these out yourself I am sure. Actualy there is a way to guarentee you will kill them - lag out the system with fighter drones - but that is not a nice thing to do. To combat cloakers in an actual fight: 1. If they are cloaked they are doing nothing. 2. Apoc's are your friend. Falcons loathe Apoc's more than any other ship. Being locked by a sniper is much more scary than blackbirds, unless a threatening ship is heading fast towards. 3. If the right ship even just locks a falcon he will run away. 4. If the right ship gets near the falcon he will run away. 5. If drones get near the falcon he will run away. Arazu's. They will tend to play things close to the line, so can't always run away. They really hate most ships, but especialy inties who get up close. Curses, pilgrims, rapiers, hugins, - they are much closer range and have more tricks so are not scared as easily - chuck a few people on them then they start to get scared.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.14 11:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Megan Maynard 10 BB's will counter 10 recons any day. (I'll get flamed for that.) TBH, it's reasonably true. It's especially true if you're clever about it and have some ships be ECM sponges. -Liang If there was nine falcons and one curse i think the situation wld end differently x) poudly annoying fc's since 2007 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast
Blancanieves Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations	Posted - 2008.08.14 11:22:00 - [27] If you're facing 10 enemy ships, you can't really expect them to NOT ruin your day, can you? If you can't even lock one of them before it cloaks again, then you don't have any problem at all. Cloaked ships don't do you any harm, not even 10 of them. If you're talking about locking them down as in having them tackled, then the Pilgrim might be a bad example, as it has to come into web range to be more effective than just a simple Arbitrator... No simple fly away and cloak for them if they want to use their neutralizers. -
Cautet Precision Engineering	Posted - 2008.08.14 12:15:00 - [28] Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Megan Maynard 10 BB's will counter 10 recons any day. (I'll get flamed for that.) TBH, it's reasonably true. It's especially true if you're clever about it and have some ships be ECM sponges. -Liang If there was nine falcons and one curse i think the situation wld end differently x) 10 well organised recons will destroy 10 well organised blackbirds. 10 well organised recons will be able to just ignore 10 disorganised blackbirds. You have the problems with all ewar of the same type having diminishing returns. Take 10 falcons (or blackbirds) for instance. There is tremendous overlap on ewar targets even in a 150 man fight. In a 10 falcons or bb + 10 other v 20 fight the overlap will be that much more. You will need to be very organised to get the maximum benefit of 10 ecm ships or 10 damp ships in this situation. 5 damp ships + 5 ecm ships would be that much more usefull. Basicly a balanced gang is always better than ott on one area gang, whether it be dps, tackle, ewar of one kind, or whatever. Moar is better but moar in every required area is even better. Recons also get huge resistence to both damps and ecm. So 10 blackbirds will usualy be seen as fodder by a recon gang. Add to that the assumption that at least some of the blackbird pilots will not know what they doing (if they are confident why they aren't flying rooks, scorps, or falcons) and you just make the recon pilots smile.
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.08.14 14:21:00 - [29] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 13/08/2008 17:18:32 Well, Recons DO have painstakingly horrible DPS and with a few exceptions are extremely fragile. The Pilgrim is worthless without it's Drones and I've seen Falcons die in 1 volley. They're fine. Unlike Nanos. 1 volley of what?: Even a max skilled tempest with Republic fleet EMP and 6x1400mm II cannot insta pop a falcon. In fact it needs 3 volleys ( 30 seconds)! tach abaddon whit 3hs and MF should be able to come close ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Katy Karkinoff Minmatar Psycho Chicks	Posted - 2008.08.14 17:09:00 - [30] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: James Lyrus A 3 heatsink Tachybaddon is on 5957 alpha (yes, that is slightly better than the Maelstrom) - although the T2 thermal resist boost on the Falcon, slight though it is, puts it out of range of a Tachybaddon instapop. Turrets don't always do the same damage though. Hello wrecking hits. Its a proven fact that falcons are more vulnerable to wrecking hits too!
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.08.14 21:56:00 - [31] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 13/08/2008 17:18:32 Well, Recons DO have painstakingly horrible DPS and with a few exceptions are extremely fragile. The Pilgrim is worthless without it's Drones and I've seen Falcons die in 1 volley. They're fine. Unlike Nanos. 1 volley of what?: Even a max skilled tempest with Republic fleet EMP and 6x1400mm II cannot insta pop a falcon. In fact it needs 3 volleys ( 30 seconds)! 20 seconds actually to get 3 volleys off... or, use 3 tempests, or amarr with tachyons _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.08.14 23:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Megan Maynard Bait them, use cloaks to catch them off guard. This We were cheerfully doing our thing in low sec around Stacmon when Species 5618 moved into next door. Next time we jump a mission runner in the system they based out of, Dastryns, we bump into their recon gang and lose one of our two cruisers to their gang - Curse, Rapier, Falcon and Arazu. Nice gang! Pirating is pretty tricky with a recon gang around most of the time you are online. We had to do something or concede Dastryns to them. So we setup a trap. A Myrmidon ratting in a belt with a Lachesis, Rapier and Falcon cloaked nearby and a Tempest next door. They struck and began chewing through the Myrm. The Tempest jumped in and warped to the belt, which was right beside the gate, and shortly before it arrived the others uncloaked and chaos ensued. We killed the Arazu and Pilgrim for no loss while the Rapier escaped in structure if I recall right. Had there been no dual boxing going on we might have got another. That was the last we saw of their recon gang and we resumed business as usual.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.14 23:22:00 - [33] Originally by: Yakov Draken This We were cheerfully doing our thing in low sec around Stacmon when Species 5618 moved into next door. Next time we jump a mission runner in the system they based out of, Dastryns, we bump into their recon gang and lose one of our two cruisers to their gang - Curse, Rapier, Falcon and Arazu. Nice gang! Pirating is pretty tricky with a recon gang around most of the time you are online. We had to do something or concede Dastryns to them. So we setup a trap. A Myrmidon ratting in a belt with a Lachesis, Rapier and Falcon cloaked nearby and a Tempest next door. They struck and began chewing through the Myrm. The Tempest jumped in and warped to the belt, which was right beside the gate, and shortly before it arrived the others uncloaked and chaos ensued. We killed the Arazu and Pilgrim for no loss while the Rapier escaped in structure if I recall right. Had there been no dual boxing going on we might have got another. That was the last we saw of their recon gang and we resumed business as usual. Nice! -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Athas Darksun Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.08.15 01:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Yakov Draken Edited by: Yakov Draken on 15/08/2008 00:48:01 Originally by: Megan Maynard Bait them, use cloaks to catch them off guard. This We were cheerfully doing our thing in low sec around Stacmon when Species 5618 moved into next door. Next time we jump a mission runner in the system they based out of, Dastryns, we bump into their recon gang and lose one of our two cruisers to their gang - Pilgrim , Rapier, Falcon and Arazu. Nice gang! Pirating is pretty tricky with a recon gang around most of the time you are online. We had to do something or concede Dastryns to them. So we setup a trap. A Myrmidon ratting in a belt with a Lachesis, Rapier and Falcon cloaked nearby and a Tempest next door. They struck and began chewing through the Myrm. The Tempest jumped in and warped to the belt, which was right beside the gate, and shortly before it arrived the others uncloaked and chaos ensued. We killed the Arazu and Pilgrim for no loss while the Rapier escaped in structure if I recall right. Had there been no dual boxing going on we might have got another. That was the last we saw of their recon gang and we resumed business as usual. Aye...very nice Ghost Festival is recruiting...

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