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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.06.03 20:44:00 -
[1]
Right then. Let's take a look under the "wars" section - there is an interesting (read: retarded) feature (read: screaming disaster) which came about as a result of player input (read: devs drinking wood alcohol). Here it is.
 Quote:
The biggest change to normal corporation warfare is that declaring a war will cost depending on how many existing wars the declarer is currently in and there is a weekly cost for sustaining a war.
All wars that don't involve an alliance as aggressor or victim are classified as normal corporation wars. In Shiva starting such a war will cost the decelerator 1.000.000 isk * 2 * number of current wars. Meaning that first war will cost 1 million, next will cost 2 million and the 3rd 6 million, etc.
Each week the war goes on a new bill for 1.000.000 isk is issued and if there is an unpaid bill for that war the war is cancelled.
I'm guessing this spurt of genius came about as a result of complaints regarding alt corporations being bothersome. But let's look at the way alt corporations work, and I speak from experience here:
Alt corps are most often externally funded - be it by powerful individual characters, or giant corporations that want to be able to gank people willy-nilly without it being traced back to them. Either way, paying for wars doesn't hurt alt corps at all. Nor does it hurt giant corporations which can afford to lose dozens of battleships in a single engagement. It doesn't do ****, quite frankly.
Who does this hurt the most? The corporations who emphasize affordable warfare. I know that I'm not the only one in a group that uses frigates to fight. We pride ourselves on not losing money while fighting wars, on sustaining warfare as long as it takes to cave a target. This bites us in the ass bigtime, especially since we like to run multiple wars. We're not rich, mind you. Now we'll have to attack one corporation at a time to keep the costs of fighting manageable - this will probably be the first time in my corp's history where a week of fighting has cost us more than a million ISK.
Where does this fee come from, exactly? What overruling governing body is there which imposes a fee on criminals before they get to commit their crimes? How often do you see a magic teleporting judge appear at the scene of a mugging and demand a cut of what the punks pull out of the old lady's wallet?
Since the developers are now caving to the cretinous and irrational demands of the carebear population, may I suggest we go a step further and impose a 1000 isk fee on every shot you fire from your gun? Perhaps a gate tax for ships passing through which depends on the number of highslots filled with weapons.
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Tease
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Posted - 2004.06.03 20:47:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
may I suggest we go a step further and impose a 1000 isk fee on every shot you fire from your gun? Perhaps a gate tax for ships passing through which depends on the number of highslots filled with weapons.
OMG! that's a GREAT idea!
-----------------------------------------
[2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's
less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level?
[2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning
lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you
[2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players
are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on
the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
Canine Fiend
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Posted - 2004.06.03 20:48:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Canine Fiend on 03/06/2004 20:50:16
I think it's a great idea and I'm in full support of it. It does a few things, it stopps the greifer alt wars, it stops people with wars against you from leaving their corp and leaving nobody to take the war off. This type of thing also prevents against wars being waged for no apparent reason. I say go for it.
(to clarify, this is for what's coming in shiva, not the 1000 isk shot cost  )
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Proud Member of Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.06.03 20:49:00 -
[4]
How does it stop griefer alt wars precisely? Please tell me because I don't see it.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.06.03 20:51:00 -
[5]
Corporations such as m0o/Evolution, who seem purely PVP-orientated, have to fund their fights. They do this mining/npc hunting/market oppurtunism.
They can just do it better than you. If you want free pvp action use your n00b ships.
Quote:
may I suggest we go a step further and impose a 1000 isk fee on every shot you fire from your gun?
That's already in place. It's called "being Caldari".
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Muaddid
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Posted - 2004.06.03 20:51:00 -
[6]
want some cheeze with your whine ? 
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Tease
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Posted - 2004.06.03 20:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
That's already in place. It's called "being Caldari".
-----------------------------------------
[2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's
less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level?
[2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning
lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you
[2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players
are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on
the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.06.03 20:53:00 -
[8]
Can we have at least one feature proposed by CCP without all the commy EVErs crying: "This will hurt the small corps!!"
Dear god...
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.06.03 20:56:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Corporations such as m0o/Evolution, who seem purely PVP-orientated, have to fund their fights. They do this mining/npc hunting/market oppurtunism.
gg Captain Obvious. What if I can't be arsed to mine in order to fight? What if all what you describe is nauseating to me, and all I want to do is shoot people in the face?
Dissed and dismissed.
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Hippey
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Posted - 2004.06.03 20:59:00 -
[10]
Stupidest... idea... EVER!
What, you don't think wars cost money right now? And who would I be paying this fee to? And for what? God damn, what the hell are you doing to this game? ****.
Nerfing **** to hell IS NOT THE GOD DAMN ANSWER!
-------------------------------------------
If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.06.03 20:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
gg Captain Obvious. What if I can't be arsed to mine in order to fight? What if all what you describe is nauseating to me, and all I want to do is shoot people in the face?
Dissed and dismissed.
Which is why CCP is nerfing you in hope you'll leave 
I rest your case.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Quote:
Corporations such as m0o/Evolution, who seem purely PVP-orientated, have to fund their fights. They do this mining/npc hunting/market oppurtunism.
gg Captain Obvious. What if I can't be arsed to mine in order to fight? What if all what you describe is nauseating to me, and all I want to do is shoot people in the face?
Dissed and dismissed.
If you can't be arsed to fund your fight then guess what, Einstein? You aint gonna be able to fight!
If you think mining is the only way to make isk then your limited imagination has quite obviously doomed you to an unsuccessful career in Eve already.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Karunel
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:00:00 -
[13]
To be honest I can't see how is this feature any good. Big corporations (or corporations composed of alts of people in big corporations) can keep declaring wars without any problem as 1 million isk is close to nothing for a well stablished corp.
However in the other hand small newbie-like corps, or just corps who like to fight with cheap assets so they don't have to worry about having to spend time getting money to cover losses (frigate fighters), will be penalized. I mean I don't think it's the End of the World if this feature finally appears on Tranquility, but... is it any useful? Nope imho.
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Tease
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
gg Captain Obvious. What if I can't be arsed to mine in order to fight? What if all what you describe is nauseating to me, and all I want to do is shoot people in the face?
Dissed and dismissed.
Maybe it's time for you to go back to CS?
-----------------------------------------
[2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's
less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level?
[2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning
lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you
[2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players
are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on
the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
Zen Jakkaru
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:00:00 -
[15]
Shiva is looking more like trammel as the days pass.
Originally by: Canine Fiend
This type of thing also prevents against wars being waged for no apparent reason.
If there is one thing history teaches us, it is that 'no apparent reason' is reason enough to start a war.
Ego stroking, boredom, personal vendetta's, jealousy and spite are all very valid reasons indeed. 
Har-de-fraggin'-har-har!
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Stained
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:03:00 -
[16]
I agree Istvaan. It really doesn't do anything for the game at all. Waste of time I think. Spend time fixing bugs instead of introducing useless aspects to this game CCP.
PS: Free Zap and Rev you greedy basterds.
___________________________________________________________________
Hair is Over-rated.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:04:00 -
[17]
Quote:
If you think mining is the only way to make isk then your limited imagination has quite obviously doomed you to an unsuccessful career in Eve already.
Actually Josh, I am an avid miner - of corphangars. Most of my funding nowadays comes from robbing corporations, and this whole fiasco merely forces me to rob more. It is ironic that a feature intended to reduce griefing has simply forced me to resort to more of the same. Any more sass-mouth?
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Tease
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Stained
I agree Istvaan. It really doesn't do anything for the game at all. Waste of time I think. Spend time fixing bugs instead of introducing useless aspects to this game CCP.
PS: Free Zap and Rev you greedy basterds.
I thought you guys were all quitting in protest or something?
-----------------------------------------
[2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's
less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level?
[2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning
lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you
[2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players
are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on
the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:04:00 -
[19]
I say itÆs a good idea, not a perfect solution but better than current system.
Will stop griefer alts declaring war on multiple noob corps etc... since if they do it will start costing them serious ISK. Will force an end to wars declared but never retracted, even after many of the players who declared the war have left the corp.
The ISK I am assuming goes to concorde / the empires as tax. No doubt imposed by them to reduce wars and non-competitive behaviour. Lets face it I doubt they like having corporation wars causing disruption in their space.
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Zen Jakkaru
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:12:00 -
[20]
I'd say this is going to hurt casual pvp-corperations more than anything.Alts are mostly funded by alliances as it provides them with an option to fight their enemies in empire without the hassle of leaving their beloved turf.
6 million a week equals 5 minutes of work to them.Its not going to stop any alt wars from being declared, thats for sure.
Har-de-fraggin'-har-har!
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Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:35:00 -
[21]
I think its more to stop single or small groups of players griefing small / noob corps. If the griefers are gonna have to start paying out serious ISK to delcare multiple un-provoked wars I think they will think twice when itÆs going to cost them 6mill a week, but isnÆt really going to bother alliances or big corps.
Like I said not a perfect solution, instead cost of war could also be based on number of corp members - e.g. 1 mill per member per week to hit big corps / alliances harder.
Or perhaps the difference in members between two warring corps, e.g. 100 member corp declares war on 40 member corp so 100-40 = 60 mill per week in tax (think of it as an anti-competition TAX since it would be more costly for larger corps to declare wars on small ones.)
NOTE!!! - 1 mill per member was just a quick figure, IÆm not proposing it be this high.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:37:00 -
[22]
Utterly pointless change. 1mil isk, puhllleasse
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illuminati
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:43:00 -
[23]
I'm guessing this is mainly to keep people from not finishing their wars.
You fight it out and then drop it.
As to details, that can be solved later but the idea is ok to me.
As long as we get "warp to", so we can do some real damage for a change, not this fly-around-in-circles stuff...
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Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:50:00 -
[24]
All this is supposed to do is to get rid of wars that have just sat there and aren't doing anything. This is NOT to stop alt grief wars, in fact it will hardly hurt them at all.
3 million a week for 3 wars is friggin pocket change. You can earn that in two hours mining, 10 or 15 minutes mining in deep space, an hour or two trading, and ten to twenty times that off one kill.
This isn't even going to hurt small corps--its just going to give larger corps an incentive to get rid of inactive wars.
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Nybbas
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:53:00 -
[25]
Damn, I only have enough money in my wallet to fund a war for 50 weeks... what am I going to do. This does nothing but make alt corps laugh, give me a break OMG 1 MIL!!! even 6 mil is a joke. Unless of course you are in a small merc corp that hunts griefers like black monkeys. The small corps that save up for so long for their first cruisers, now can't even afford to enter a war and help stop jerkoffs like the black monkeys... give me a break for some big corporation this is like a drop in the bucket... it is completely pointless and wont fix anything...
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Ooke
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:55:00 -
[26]
each and every "stupid" change is instigated because someone breaks the rules... blame the lusers who push the system for new idiotic rules not the system itself...
Ooke: May Contain Nuts |
Atandros
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Posted - 2004.06.03 21:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
gg Captain Obvious. What if I can't be arsed to mine in order to fight? What if all what you describe is nauseating to me, and all I want to do is shoot people in the face?
Then you play Planetside. Ah, but people won't hate your guts for doing that there, will they?
I need a nauseated smiley too.
In response to your arguments, in my experience alt gankers aren't always the shadow hands of megacorps and alliances, a good part of them is bored people of any stripe seeking to have fun this way. This will deter many such alt corps.
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Tatya Ilikova
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Posted - 2004.06.03 22:00:00 -
[28]
Uhmmmm how many people declare wars and then forget about them? That makes no sense at all, and even IF that was the case, SO WHAT oh man inactive wars.. oh wait there is no such thing as an inactive war. So what the hell? And also all those comments about Istvaan, you people sicken me, doomed his eve career? I think he did that back in beta you fools. Go back to CS? My god, wittiest comment EVER. If half you people even knew what you were talking about, something amazing might happen, like me not getting sick when reading the utter crap that is the EVE forum.
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Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.06.03 22:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tatya Ilikova
Uhmmmm how many people declare wars and then forget about them? That makes no sense at all, and even IF that was the case, SO WHAT oh man inactive wars.. oh wait there is no such thing as an inactive war. So what the hell? And also all those comments about Istvaan, you people sicken me, doomed his eve career? I think he did that back in beta you fools. Go back to CS? My god, wittiest comment EVER. If half you people even knew what you were talking about, something amazing might happen, like me not getting sick when reading the utter crap that is the EVE forum.
Yes, there are inactive wars . You wouldn't know though--inactive wars don't happen in alt griefer corps
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.06.03 22:06:00 -
[30]
Quote:
In response to your arguments, in my experience alt gankers aren't always the shadow hands of megacorps and alliances, a good part of them is bored people of any stripe seeking to have fun this way. This will deter many such alt corps.
Won't "deter" us. We'll just do more of what we normally do to afford this wretched fee. Hint: Not mining or marketeering or manufacturing. I know some of you human wreckages have wallets overflowing with ISK from your months spent staring at Arkonor asteroids, but I patently refuse to pay fifteen bucks a month to engage in such menial activity.
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