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Lowa
Gallente North Star Networks Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.08.18 16:01:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Wesley Baird Heres the lesson boyz and girlz stay the F away from isk farmers...as having anything to do with them will get you banned...
To be honest Wes, from all reports (yes, ofc not all as CCP doesnt present any statistics of banned Farmers) from players it seems that as CCP doesnt do anything sustainable about it when reported and deffo not without anyone alerting them. Other than the stories of what seems to be dubious actions from GM's and players alike fromt time to time we know nothing. Sadly. We dont even know the extent of this problem (illigal farmers that is) but a fair guess would be big. What we do know is that its practically impossible to kill them off once you are infected. (Impossible to fit cloak to ship if char name = anything that doesnt make sense and has numbers in it! )
I agree that one should stay away from Farmers no question about, it but what if the farmers dont stay away from you?
This perticular case seems to be so boarderline I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole without first hand knowledge.
/Lowa
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Kian Jorry
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.18 16:03:00 -
[62]
And today's lesson for wannabe launderers is:
Don't buy titans with stolen isk.
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gnshadowninja
Caldari Baptism oF Fire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.08.18 16:07:00 -
[63]
As a long term player this only worries me for one reason, If a farmer buys something off the market from me will i get screwed over and banned? That seems to be happening, fair enough if people buy it and its transfered butlogs will show that Plyer X took the large sum of money from the alliance/corp funds and transfered to his main then went straight into the titan.
I think CCP need to sort there act out and fast, before they loose more players for being stupid and not looking at facts.
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Worzel Gummidge
Caldari The Scarecrows
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Posted - 2008.08.18 16:27:00 -
[64]
Originally by: gnshadowninja As a long term player this only worries me for one reason, If a farmer buys something off the market from me will i get screwed over and banned? That seems to be happening, fair enough if people buy it and its transfered butlogs will show that Plyer X took the large sum of money from the alliance/corp funds and transfered to his main then went straight into the titan.
I think CCP need to sort there act out and fast, before they loose more players for being stupid and not looking at facts.
What should happen is the entire transaction should be reversed, you get your item back and the isk is then subtracted from your account (minus fees). Not sure if this happens though.
I'm wondering if Ketch logged into this other account, if so then could CCP construe that both accounts were being run by the same person and ban both of them. Otherwise, Ketch should have the exact amount of isk in question subtracted from his account but should not be banned.
My opinion anyway
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Mariko San
REUNI0N
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Posted - 2008.08.18 16:38:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 18/08/2008 09:54:42 They should just ban whole alliances if they are knowingly harboring isk farmers, and profiting from it.
ok, this is just a ridiculous statement. If someone (corp/alliance) rents space out and profits from it, that is part of the game. It's ccp's job to figure out if someone is selling isk and ban those isk farmers and people who they can prove bought it with cash. An alliance/corp. doesn't have to investigate who they rent space to as they are just playing the game. And to take a titan without proving someone bought isk for cash and showing that all the minerals and isk that went into it were from purchased isk is irresponsible on CCP's part. Of course quite a few of us have been screwed by CCP before on characters, ships, isk, etc., so maybe CCP just wants it to be part of the game (getting screwed).
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HostageTaker
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.18 16:42:00 -
[66]
Hand Cookie Jar Result.
The End.
>>> EvE-Online Wallpapers <<< |
mishkof
Caldari Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2008.08.18 16:43:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Wesley Baird Heres the lesson boyz and girlz stay the F away from isk farmers...as having anything to do with them will get you banned...hope everyone listens...as there are a few big alliances who seem to have some funny blues :)
I say ban away...you take isk from group you know to be scum, then too bad...I hope the others who are doing the same also get his with the ban stick...which is way so many leaders of alliance let others in their alliance "deal with renters" because they dont want to get hit with the ban stick...
Ole Wes here is spot on IMO. It is silly to say "ban the whole alliance", but any accounts that are involved in this whether they have a titan or not I have nothing against this action being taken.
I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.18 16:51:00 -
[68]
Originally by: gnshadowninja As a long term player this only worries me for one reason, If a farmer buys something off the market from me will i get screwed over and banned? That seems to be happening, fair enough if people buy it and its transfered butlogs will show that Plyer X took the large sum of money from the alliance/corp funds and transfered to his main then went straight into the titan.
I think CCP need to sort there act out and fast, before they loose more players for being stupid and not looking at facts.
Going by what a GM said in another thread, they would just give the isk buyer a -ve wallet. They only reverse market transactions where somebody buys 1 trit for 5 billion isk from a verified isk seller etc.
There are a few threads in eve-search about it. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.18 16:53:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Mariko San It's ccp's job to figure out if someone is selling isk and ban those isk farmers and people who they can prove bought it with cash. An alliance/corp. doesn't have to investigate who they rent space to as they are just playing the game. And to take a titan without proving someone bought isk for cash and showing that all the minerals and isk that went into it were from purchased isk is irresponsible on CCP's part.
Agreed.
It isn't up to us to NOT engage with people who are playing this game - if they're playing then CCP have deemed them to be in adherence with EULA - it isn't our job to enforce EULA, it is ccp's. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
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Saltire
Digital assassins
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Posted - 2008.08.18 17:00:00 -
[70]
got caught, move on....fail
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Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.18 17:03:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 18/08/2008 17:04:34
Originally by: KIAEddZ I don't know what happened in detail as to the isk that ketch put in, only whats said here and what has been passed to me, but I do wander why the 40ish Billion Isk that Daisho Alliance put into the purchase of the Titan, which was legitimate isk, has not been refunded to them?
Also, why is the Titan Pilot Account been banned?
I guess there might be more to all of this, but from the little information filtering through, it seems pretty harsh.
Be carefull what you say man, think of your public image like you always do. If you put your support behind that guy - i'm really trying hard not to make fun dino's IQ and his emo rage posts, your popularity might go so much down that they won't invite you on the next tournament championship.
Also ... LOL. Shows how bright Daishio/Kia pilots are. I hope they keep the ban on him, he emo-rage-quits and Daishio does the same. :)
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The BigOne
Gallente Redheads and Railguns
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Posted - 2008.08.18 17:35:00 -
[72]
Double bubble, toil and trouble... Scandal's afoot, we see.... Ask not in Geminate for Justice Young fool, the reaper, he reaps for thee.
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Zumina Apoca
Amarr Apoca Balder Trading
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Posted - 2008.08.18 18:32:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Mariko San It's ccp's job to figure out if someone is selling isk and ban those isk farmers and people who they can prove bought it with cash. An alliance/corp. doesn't have to investigate who they rent space to as they are just playing the game. And to take a titan without proving someone bought isk for cash and showing that all the minerals and isk that went into it were from purchased isk is irresponsible on CCP's part.
Agreed.
It isn't up to us to NOT engage with people who are playing this game - if they're playing then CCP have deemed them to be in adherence with EULA - it isn't our job to enforce EULA, it is ccp's.
Nice of you to say even though it was BOB he was screwing over with his wifes account.... or thats the word in the kitchen atleast
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Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.18 19:46:00 -
[74]
Isk selling is bad, no doubt about it.
What would be nice is if CCP clarified the rules on any Isk comming from an Isk-seller's account. Because its just possible that this time a business arrangement (space rental fee) is being deemed as an illegal Isk sale.
I guess the real question is: Can an Isk seller have a LEGITIMATE transaction? Or does the sale of Isk completely invalidate all transactions ever made by that isk seller?
This COULD have been an instance where Account One was collecting rental fees, and skimming some of the money over to Account Two. Since the spying/theft is a condoned CCP activity, the question becomes: Did Account One know that he was dealing with isk farmers? Or does that even matter? My bet is that it don't matter: Isk-farmed cash is tainted, and if you profited from it in any way then you lose. |
Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.18 19:51:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Zumina Apoca Nice of you to say even though it was BOB he was screwing over with his wifes account.... or thats the word in the kitchen atleast
We don't take payments for space any more. And, please forward any farmer names to rogerwilco or col Mammoth, they love them. |
Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.18 19:53:00 -
[76]
Oh, and guys?
Farming isk isn't illegal.
Buying / selling isk for RL cash IS illegal.
So no, the only crime is if rl money changed hands - anything beyond that is completely within the game. |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.18 20:00:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Princess Jodi Isk selling is bad, no doubt about it.
What would be nice is if CCP clarified the rules on any Isk comming from an Isk-seller's account. Because its just possible that this time a business arrangement (space rental fee) is being deemed as an illegal Isk sale.
I guess the real question is: Can an Isk seller have a LEGITIMATE transaction? Or does the sale of Isk completely invalidate all transactions ever made by that isk seller?
This COULD have been an instance where Account One was collecting rental fees, and skimming some of the money over to Account Two. Since the spying/theft is a condoned CCP activity, the question becomes: Did Account One know that he was dealing with isk farmers? Or does that even matter? My bet is that it don't matter: Isk-farmed cash is tainted, and if you profited from it in any way then you lose.
CCP is not a bunch of mouth breathing, slack jaws.
There is two sides to every story, and then theirs the truth. So pointless speculating is just that. |
0ren Ishi
Caldari Sine Nomine Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.18 20:17:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr With no official word from CCP we have no way of knowing what happened. I've been playing for five years, so I know quite a few players. The number of "what the ñ#%&!!"-cases is on the rise.
Perhaps Quality Control at GM-headquaters need a swift kick in the nuts?
I am guessing CCP Navigator got given a promotion from forum caretaker to taking out the sh*t. |
Milkman Dani
Gallente RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.18 22:17:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Milkman Dani on 18/08/2008 22:18:51 Edited by: Milkman Dani on 18/08/2008 22:17:59
Originally by: Dianabolic Oh, and guys?
Farming isk isn't illegal.
Buying / selling isk for RL cash IS illegal.
So no, the only crime is if rl money changed hands - anything beyond that is completely within the game.
This right here is what should have been said by anyone first.
We all farm for isk to spend on ships, but selling it and buying it is illegal. I don't think that dude should have been banned, because all he did was liberated enslaved isk that was going to be sold off to some d-bag that felt lazy and didn't want to spend the time to sell a GTC the legal way, or rat/mine/build things. I think anyone that buys isk a huge d-bag. The only good way to make isk, is to farm for it, and if you don't have the time to farm it or mine it, then sell a GTC the legal way through your evo account. I wouldn't wanna tell some ****** group that is selling isk for rl money my credit card info.. who know's who they are or what they'd do with your card info.
Anyway, I wanted to Quote Diana for truth here. |
Kresh Vladir
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.08.18 22:35:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Kian Jorry And today's lesson for wannabe launderers is:
Don't buy titans with stolen isk.
I would say its: Ppl on CAOD and Internet are morons, omg how can ppl not get it?!?!? Im not smart but ffs some guys (read most) are regular idiots |
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.08.18 22:38:00 -
[81]
Pure comedy gold. |
Lady Branwen
Amarr Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.08.18 22:44:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Lady Branwen on 18/08/2008 22:44:21
Originally by: Milkman Dani Edited by: Milkman Dani on 18/08/2008 22:18:51 Edited by: Milkman Dani on 18/08/2008 22:17:59
Originally by: Dianabolic Oh, and guys?
Farming isk isn't illegal.
Buying / selling isk for RL cash IS illegal.
So no, the only crime is if rl money changed hands - anything beyond that is completely within the game.
This right here is what should have been said by anyone first.
We all farm for isk to spend on ships, but selling it and buying it is illegal. I don't think that dude should have been banned, because all he did was liberated enslaved isk that was going to be sold off to some d-bag that felt lazy and didn't want to spend the time to sell a GTC the legal way, or rat/mine/build things. I think anyone that buys isk a huge d-bag. The only good way to make isk, is to farm for it, and if you don't have the time to farm it or mine it, then sell a GTC the legal way through your evo account. I wouldn't wanna tell some ****** group that is selling isk for rl money my credit card info.. who know's who they are or what they'd do with your card info.
Anyway, I wanted to Quote Diana for truth here.
this
Originally by: Lady Branwen So let me get this straight, CCP are ascertaining thatthere was no theft, and isk was bought from a "known" (only to CCP right ?) isk seller ? If that is correct, can anyone explain what a "known" isk seller is doing with an account to play eve at all ? CCP ?
and this |
Richard Angevian
The Crusaders.
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Posted - 2008.08.18 22:52:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Angor
Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 18/08/2008 09:54:42 They should just ban whole alliances if they are knowingly harboring isk farmers, and profiting from it.
Yes, and I am also sure that LV didn't profit from such isk selling sweatshops in the form of "rent". Or Bob, or RA, or Goons, or "insert alliance here"
Only alliances that don't have developers in them get hit for stuff like that. Of course EVERY huge spaceholder in this game "rents" space to isk farmers. If the isk farmers didn't have access to 0.0, they wouldn't be able to farm like they do.
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Richard Angevian
The Crusaders.
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Posted - 2008.08.18 22:54:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Dianabolic Oh, and guys?
Farming isk isn't illegal.
Buying / selling isk for RL cash IS illegal.
So no, the only crime is if rl money changed hands - anything beyond that is completely within the game.
This, from the alliance that has no doubt made the most isk from farmers in the history of eve.
Except you call it "rent".
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sakana
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.18 23:02:00 -
[85]
Originally by: KIAEddZ Why was the character banned? Why not just take the Titan that they suspect is bought with farmed ISK, I dont understand why they have banned the account.
Harsh Ketch, feel for you bud, but as Mjabi says, don't give up m8, Daisho needs you.
If they believed the player was buying isk, then yes he should be banned. its against the rules.
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mishkof
Caldari Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2008.08.18 23:04:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Milkman Dani Edited by: Milkman Dani on 18/08/2008 22:18:51 Edited by: Milkman Dani on 18/08/2008 22:17:59
Originally by: Dianabolic Oh, and guys?
Farming isk isn't illegal.
Buying / selling isk for RL cash IS illegal.
So no, the only crime is if rl money changed hands - anything beyond that is completely within the game.
This right here is what should have been said by anyone first.
We all farm for isk to spend on ships, but selling it and buying it is illegal. I don't think that dude should have been banned, because all he did was liberated enslaved isk that was going to be sold off to some d-bag that felt lazy and didn't want to spend the time to sell a GTC the legal way, or rat/mine/build things. I think anyone that buys isk a huge d-bag. The only good way to make isk, is to farm for it, and if you don't have the time to farm it or mine it, then sell a GTC the legal way through your evo account. I wouldn't wanna tell some ****** group that is selling isk for rl money my credit card info.. who know's who they are or what they'd do with your card info.
Anyway, I wanted to Quote Diana for truth here.
I simply cannot believe that this outcome from taking multiple large DIRECT payments from a known seller, and then spending it on a high ticket items really surprises anyone here. Since you know this is how CCP operate and you go ahead and accept the ISK anyways...on a titan account...Well then you have bigger problems then getting banned.
These arent new rules. Just this time a titan was lost in the process, that is the only real reason I think people are all huffy and puffy about it. People are now thinking "if a titan can disappear then all bets are off".
This is why the contract system exists, and is the reason the only true payment for living in space is Xing up and defending it IMO. I also highly doubt we have heard the whole story as well.
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fugazii
Deep Space Productions
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Posted - 2008.08.18 23:55:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Richard Angevian
Originally by: Angor
Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 18/08/2008 09:54:42 They should just ban whole alliances if they are knowingly harboring isk farmers, and profiting from it.
Yes, and I am also sure that LV didn't profit from such isk selling sweatshops in the form of "rent". Or Bob, or RA, or Goons, or "insert alliance here"
Only alliances that don't have developers in them get hit for stuff like that. Of course EVERY huge spaceholder in this game "rents" space to isk farmers. If the isk farmers didn't have access to 0.0, they wouldn't be able to farm like they do.
I don't think you get what the word "rent" means in relation to how farmed is being used. And yes, the farmers wouldn't be able to farm like they do if they didn't have access to 0.0, ...they'd have to do it in empire through lv4's. Immune to wardec's, very little threat of ever being ganked which means they have 0 downtime aside from DT, they don't need to waste a high slot with a cloak, they have no supply of ammo issues, they can have a alt salvaging everything for even more isk made, and ofc the best part they're killing high bounty npc's unlike 0.0 where they're living in scrub sec status systems.
The fact that 0.0 alliances are taking isk from farmers actually helps curb the illegal isk trade within this game. Not only is less isk in the farmers pockets due to their rental fee's, but at the same time they're being kept in low isk making area's of space rather then being forced into empire where there isn't rental fee's and the amount of isk being made through missions is far greater. |
Enthes goldhart
Gallente Enraged.
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Posted - 2008.08.19 00:51:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Enthes goldhart on 19/08/2008 00:51:52
Originally by: fugazii
The fact that 0.0 alliances are taking isk from farmers actually helps curb the illegal isk trade within this game. Not only is less isk in the farmers pockets due to their rental fee's, but at the same time they're being kept in low isk making area's of space rather then being forced into empire where there isn't rental fee's and the amount of isk being made through missions is far greater.
Im pretty sure if u mine in 0.0 u will earn more isk |
teh punisher
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.19 02:46:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Shinigami
Originally by: Rudi Storm If I get this right...
A large amount of the original titan cost was from an account that was obviously getting the money from ISK farmers. Those same ISK Farmers that sell ISK for RL money on the web which in itself is punishable? Not arguing the way you got the money (corp theft). But the way the original ISK was obtained is the problem.
Lets say I steal a car and then sell it to you for 10$. I doubt the cops will let you keep the car if you get caught with it.
I don't see a reason why CCP should be blamed. You knew where the money came from and you should therefore know what you are getting yourself into.
Agreed. They should unban him, but not return the titan.
no, they shouldn't unban him. keeping with the same analogy, the police wouldn't let the guy who bought the car for $10 to just go and walk free after they get caught. |
teh punisher
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.19 02:48:00 -
[90]
Originally by: KIAEddZ I don't know what happened in detail as to the isk that ketch put in, only whats said here and what has been passed to me, but I do wander why the 40ish Billion Isk that Daisho Alliance put into the purchase of the Titan, which was legitimate isk, has not been refunded to them?
Also, why is the Titan Pilot Account been banned?
I guess there might be more to all of this, but from the little information filtering through, it seems pretty harsh.
this is a pretty stupid idea actually. why do you think ccp should reimburse you all that money when you used some isk-farmed money to top up your titan account? because a lot of people spent time and effort gathering the money? it's absolutely stupid to draw an arbitrary line saying "we'll help reimburse you, but only if the amount of isk involved is above xxx billion." showing favors to the daisho guys to get their money back would be cheating the other players that they don't help. |
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