Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver

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you placed a spy in some alliance... and you had said spy steal isk. he stole. he's a thief, a big stinking thief.

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Originally by: Ralania Kerin

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Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver

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you placed a spy in some alliance... and you had said spy steal isk. he stole. he's a thief, a big stinking thief.

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Ya because Eve has always been about having a strong code of moral conduct and helping old ladies across the street while we're at it.

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Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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Cleaned.

Please stay on-topic. Please note the quickest way of attracting a member of the Community Team to a problem thread, user or post is to use the "Report" feature above every post.

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Originally by: Sgt Napalm

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This sets such a dangerous precedence its not even funny. Basically we know how to get a character ban by setting them up with some questionable ISK, 'launder' it to a character and blammo, banned.

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Originally by: Doddy

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Originally by: Sgt Napalm

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This sets such a dangerous precedence its not even funny. Basically we know how to get a character ban by setting them up with some questionable ISK, 'launder' it to a character and blammo, banned.

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I am fairly certain that if someone sent me 40 billion isk i would petition it, wouldn't you?

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Originally by: Doddy

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I am fairly certain that if someone sent me 40 billion isk i would petition it, wouldn't you?

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Originally by: Doddy

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Originally by: Sgt Napalm

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This sets such a dangerous precedence its not even funny. Basically we know how to get a character ban by setting them up with some questionable ISK, 'launder' it to a character and blammo, banned.

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I am fairly certain that if someone sent me 40 billion isk i would petition it, wouldn't you?

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Originally by: Sgt Napalm

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Originally by: Doddy

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I am fairly certain that if someone sent me 40 billion isk i would petition it, wouldn't you?

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So you find $20 laying on the ground...



Sometimes human nature cannot be defeated

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Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver

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couldnt have said it better Mal, and this is what people dont understand, just because you can something, doesnt mean you should. Just because thieving is fine, means that we should all be corp thieving spying, ****heads?
your answer is probably yes though.

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Originally by: Darth Sith

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OK .. take 1 part of people not knowing the whole story, 2 parts of Ketch being to annoyed to articulate himself properly and 3 parts of COAD forum *****s doing their magic and VOILA! .. you get mass threads of pure nonsense springing up all over the place.

Based on the sensitivity of this issue and the fact that discussions are still ongoing with CCP I will not, nor do I feel a need to explain every detail.

What I will say is the following:

1) DAISHO has never condoned or participated in ISK selling. I have never advocated such behavior in my alliance

2) Ketch did not spend any money on ISK nor was there any account sharing/ hijacking in taking place. We simply had a spy in a large entity that was skimming money from a wallet. That is all I will say on the matter.

3) Ketch was a personal friend and we have flown together for years. He has been nothing but a stellar leader in my team and a good friend. He is the one who kept things together through some of our most challenging times and has FC'd fleets around the universe. Most alliances know him and I don't want his contributions trashed by a COAD thread. That man would give the shirt off his back to help his colleagues and he will be dearly missed.

4) This whole endevor has taken quite a toll on a couple of us as we have kept it under wraps for several weeks. There are is a lot of speculation and rumor flying around on the state of Daisho and I am happy to say that we are alive and strong. Our killboards are healthy and our people motivated. In addition we have 2 strong allies at our backs in Geminate consisting of KIA and Goon so no worries there so sorry.. don't expect a BWF firesale any time soon.

5) With Dai on a high and our sov 4 area secured, I would like to announce a change of management. People have known me as Nacona or Darth Sith and I have lived in Fade ,Dek , Period Basis, Fountain and other places but reality is that I have created 2 alliances (Sparta and Daisho) and run them for over 3 years so I am announcing that I am officially standing down and seeing about reintroducing myself to that girl roaming around the house while I play Eve (aka my wife) and my beutiful daughter. I would just like to thank all of the people i have worked with in Eve, you have been my extended family on TS till all hours of the night and I feel privaledged to have been given the opportunity to lead such a great group of guys. I have officially transitioned Daisho to Isaac Orion, a long time friend and one of the pillars of Daisho.

Darth Sith
(former) Exec Daisho

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Originally by: Kelta

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Out of interest if CCP are taking assets or isk off people that have received it from isk farmers/sellers, then how do people stand on selling GTC's to isk farmers?

If you just take a quick look at the time code threads I think it is bloody obvious isk sellers/farmers are buying GTC's for their characters, unless normal Eve players are calling themselves afgtsaa or ttt007/ttt006 etc these days?

Then again CCP make real life money themselves from this, so i'm guessing they don't care right?

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Originally by: Richard Angevian

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Originally by: Kelta

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Out of interest if CCP are taking assets or isk off people that have received it from isk farmers/sellers, then how do people stand on selling GTC's to isk farmers?

If you just take a quick look at the time code threads I think it is bloody obvious isk sellers/farmers are buying GTC's for their characters, unless normal Eve players are calling themselves afgtsaa or ttt007/ttt006 etc these days?

Then again CCP make real life money themselves from this, so i'm guessing they don't care right?

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The serious farmers/sellers launder a lot of isk with GTC buys. Where else do you think the illegit sites get the GTC codes they "sell"?

The bottom line is that the only way to get rid of the isk sellers is for CCP to... sell isk. Sound harsh, but they do it anyway, with the overpriced GTC's. If CCP sold isk directly they could easily put every isk seller out of business.

Would it have the same negative effect on the game? Sure. But it's going to happen anyway.

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Originally by: Ralania Kerin

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Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver

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couldnt have said it better Mal, and this is what people dont understand, just because you can something, doesnt mean you should. Just because thieving is fine, means that we should all be corp thieving spying, ****heads?
your answer is probably yes though.

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I am actually completely against corp theft and anyone who is associated with my corp or who knows me in my alliance can attest that I am not in Eve to make it for myself.

That said, the rule of the game in Eve is that scamming and theft is allowed as long as it is accomplished within in game means. Who you scam and steal from shouldn't matter - unless there is a trail of evidence that shows that the "theft" is really a payment, which is possible in this case.

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Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver

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lets suppose for a minute though that it was a theft.. and it looked or appeared to be bought or whatever...then stealing in the first place put you in the situation,

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Originally by: Ralania Kerin

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Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver

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lets suppose for a minute though that it was a theft.. and it looked or appeared to be bought or whatever...then stealing in the first place put you in the situation,

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Ya but since stealing and espionage are completely approved game mechanics this is a moot point. If you want scamming and theft and such to become bannable I don't even think I would argue against you, but until then it shouldn't matter who you scammed or stole from.

I dont think we should judge this based on whether we agree with what the Daisho player did. It should be judged based on whether that player was complying with the rules as they had been presented up to that moment.

Now in most of these cases it turns out that CCP has some other bit of evidence that really makes it an obvious case that something worse happened. I really hope they have that kind of evidence in this case because I can only imagine how I would feel if I had been in the game long enough to fly a Titan and I was given the boot on a mistake, misunderstanding, or misinterpretation.

Ralania Kerin

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Originally by: Richard Angevian

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Edited by: Richard Angevian on 18/08/2008 21:53:47
It's not as if CCP's hands are clean here. They sell overpriced GTC's who's purpose basically is a method of RMT, ie dollars for isk, the price difference between what a GTC sells for and what it "should" sell for is pure profit off RMT. And unlike the farmers, CCP gets to make real money off isk without even bothering to farm.

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